- Aug 6, 2016
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- 1,941
You can count at least me in this, and I know of some in house devs too, there are some reading, we just have to try to make sure they succeed, so others will follow suit.
Tips for developers: how not to suck
- Thread starter TinoBambino
- Start date
- Aug 7, 2016
- 715
- 830
What's funny is that some of the game maker try to sell your their game with arguments like " Huge open world ! ! ! ! ", yeah, like you said, another big ass RPGMaker map, that my character will make 10 minutes to cross from one side to another even when sprinting doing some boring FedEx quest "Go buy food for your mom ".
- Aug 6, 2016
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I don't think the engine makes the dev, but someone who doesn't want to work, and create everything using stock assets and zero work can't be called a dev.
- May 3, 2017
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I have seen great results done in Ludum Dare with stock assets - that argument cant stand. But filling an engine with something and then believing one is a developer is simply a joke
- Sep 21, 2016
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Do not worry I like to try Ice Cold Waves Down Below mostly, But Ill agree with Archast on that it is not the engine, Ill agree a lot of shit games are made on RPGM engine but when you are dedicated to make a good game you get something like Adorevia and Noxian Nights, you will hear these names loads of times because they are actually done right. A good mix with story a bit of grinding but not too much and not too much walking 20 min for x scene every time if you keep what you have done or not done in mind.
- May 3, 2017
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Since we are at it i have a few points myself:
- Explain your game basically. Don't just throw something at the user and expect him/her to figure out what to do
- stats - describe them properly and don't assume everyone shares the same definition of a random word
- If its a relevant stat for the gameplay and has effects don't make the user dig through code to find its relevance but make those stats and its changes obviously visible in game
- when you force the user into decisions that are important or might even lead to a game over make sure to let the user know about it. Your users play games for entertainment not for masochistic reasons
- check your narrative. If YOU think aloud, ponder and force decisions its more a story you are telling and not a game. If the user is supposed to think, ponder and make decisions design your game accordingly. The latter requires a lot more mechanics to let the user store info and remember things than the first
- Explain your game basically. Don't just throw something at the user and expect him/her to figure out what to do
- stats - describe them properly and don't assume everyone shares the same definition of a random word
- If its a relevant stat for the gameplay and has effects don't make the user dig through code to find its relevance but make those stats and its changes obviously visible in game
- when you force the user into decisions that are important or might even lead to a game over make sure to let the user know about it. Your users play games for entertainment not for masochistic reasons
- check your narrative. If YOU think aloud, ponder and force decisions its more a story you are telling and not a game. If the user is supposed to think, ponder and make decisions design your game accordingly. The latter requires a lot more mechanics to let the user store info and remember things than the first
Something I really hate in Ren'py VNs is superfluous click prompts.
The only time I want to click a prompt is when a choice is presented. Don't make me click on the screen just to continue the narrative.
I just deleted Intoxicating Flavor after 10 minutes because of this bullshit.... click to pick up a suitcase...click again to carry it to the room...click again to open the door...aaaaaaaaaaAAAHHH!! *shuts off game*
The only time I want to click a prompt is when a choice is presented. Don't make me click on the screen just to continue the narrative.
I just deleted Intoxicating Flavor after 10 minutes because of this bullshit.... click to pick up a suitcase...click again to carry it to the room...click again to open the door...aaaaaaaaaaAAAHHH!! *shuts off game*
- Aug 28, 2019
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I saw fan made rpgm games that are 1000 times better than something done for who you consider truly "devs", I totally disagree with you.
So these are shit/not real/ developers by your definition?
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I guess you have to make a real game with 1 click gameplay for some kinetic vn to be called a true dev
Is this thread for rpgm? Because lots of comments mention that.
My advise for upcoming devs is... Spend less time on forums, more time on making an actual game
Especially when you start, it's all fun and cool to interact with new fans, but the whole day can pass unproductively.1. Invest in custom tiles and music.
2. Use yanfly call events.
3. Use only necesary plugins and test it out thoroughly or you're going to smash that performance.
4. Make smaller maps with lots of clutter to avoid big spaces.
5. Intro to the game should be short, showing all the ropes what's the game is about.
6. Give the player freedom. If you want to make a kinetic vn, make it on renpy or something.
7. Make a game for your fetishes, otherwise, you'll lose the motivation.
8. Have no doubts. Your first game will suck, but it'll be a good learning experience.
9. Keep true to your vision, if you change your game to please a few people on the forum, but not what you want to make, it'll be a mess, loss of motivation etc.
10. Avoid spamming parallel processes, leave 1 wait time at least to reduce the possible lag.
11. Explore different ideas. RPGM is good for any kind of game within a reason. It doesn't have to be a top-down walking/bimbo spanking simulator only.
12. You can utilize krimer CallMenu to allow players to save anytime.
13. Learn the engine. RPGM is stable and has a good performance at this point. If things don't work, most likely it's your own fault (bad eventing/plugin compatibility issues). Though, big ass parallax mapping on fhd and heavily scripted combat running 100 plugins is a problem for low-end machines.
14. Yanfly's desktop optimized plugin is pretty cool if you're not interested in mobile releases.
15. You can try updating nw.js manually to improve the performance. But that's for you to find out how to do it.
16. Embrace the rpgm community. There are tons of free plugins to make your game like no other.
17. Ignore the haters.
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Probably repeating myself from other threads:
- CONSISTENCY and CONSEQUENCES! If your game allows me to cum inside the same hole dozens or even hundreds of times I expect said cum to accumulate with effects depending on the tone of the game. Not every instance needs 50-gallon creampies, belly inflation, realistic distension pain, nausea, organ ruptures and full fluid simulation of the spillage but don't show a bottomless cream hose when everything just vanishes the moment your single cumshot animation/image is over. The same goes for broader concepts where applicable within the game: if you have a stamina meter show characters becoming exhausted and make sure all physical activity actually drains stamina! If you cater to something like body hair, weight gain or smell fetishes integrate those with your time progression system if you have one.
- Sure you might lose picky people like me if they love/hate incest/NTR/whatever but scavenging for the odd scene out gets old really quickly. I'd rather have games or paths dedicated to certain themes than a kitchen sink cruise where you're trying to bang your sister, cuck the neighbour, set up your school bully to get raped by dogs and also work in a golden shower brothel for some reason. The exception here being a true sandbox game where offering player choice and freedom is the entire point of the design.
- Provide meaningful genre/fetish info and previews. "Meaningful" meaning "show screenshots of actual in-game sex content" not omake, more than one walking simulator image, T-pose or clothed demo renders of individual characters (a "cast overview" is fine) or deliberately embellishing promos. Obviously allowing some discretion regarding spoilers, limited CG in text-focused games etc.
- If you only have assets which feel completely out of place better not use them at all. RPGM water magic for cumshots is funny the first time but that's about it. No high-pitched Japanese schoolgirl moans for amazoness characters, no IKEA furniture on the ultra-futuristic spaceship, no battery-powered pink vibrator in the middle ages unless you have already established the functional magitech to power it.
- Back to consistency, CONSISTENT CHARACTERS! I believe someone mentioned this already but a trained soldier should not tremble helplessly when confronted with a lone mugger/rapist. Mostly aimed at poorly made "corruption" games in my experience, if you already have a mechanic explicitly tracking sexual experience, sluttiness or libido and proudly display it to the player then make it actually function as such. Too many times have I been able to achieve/grind high lewdness in the first town only for a scripted story section in the next place to be all "ooh noo, I'm a poor innocent virgin I can't possibly lick your peepee" - while pregnant from a stranger and carrying thousands of gold from various whoring activities. Even worse if it happens in a non-"corruption" game and the character just oscillates between slut and prude/virgin for no apparent reason.
- Try not to "surprise" or "prank" at least with cockblocking or fetish content unless the game is explicitly marketed for such. Especially if the content in question has already lead to arguments within your fanbase.
- Align player goals with player character goals. If not possible reward "proper" or "skilled" gameplay with all sexual content available through inferior performance. The simplest example is Game Over Rape: beating the enemy should unlock their defeat scene in the gallery.
- There are more male character archetypes besides preteen boys, high school/college losers, boring salarymen, unemployed fat perverts and psychopaths.
- There are more female character archetypes besides pure and innocent virgins, ravenous sluts, The One True Love and sluts in bitch shells.
- If you are not devoted to making a full kitchen sink sandbox explain your vision and lay down the boundaries early. No, stop asking for NTR it won't happen. No, we don't do animals here and the family dog is only there for emotional support. No we will not switch to a full realtime 3D open world, the game is designed and written for Ren'py.
- Meta: be honest about development goals/delays. Don't keep making promises then layering on the excuses, don't go AWOL if you aren't faced with actual RL issues, don't leave your subscription-style donations going if you actually abandon the project.
- Aug 5, 2016
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How to not suck? I don't think a big essay is needed for that, the only advice I can give is having a tough skin, and learn from criticism whether it's big or small, because after all the intention matters not the word they type. They can praise you all they want with a malicious intention, and they can criticize you heavily with a good intention. Identifying the intention is necessary, not all of the people are going to type a big essay explaining why the game sucks. You don't expect constructive praises, so why expect constructive criticism? Why a criticism should be constructive always? Trolling, nagging, harassments should be avoided not criticism. Saying a game sucks might not be very helpful but it doesn't make the action a trolling attempt or an unhelpful post. You can combine what they had said with the criticism made by other people who share the same view, or you can ask from them directly why they said like that instead of attacking them, you never know the outcome. I get it sometimes it might be painful to see all the criticism when you post your first or second game in a community, but that's a good thing because you are given attention, as per bjarne There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses. If people complain means they give you attention, so use it for your own advantage. If you only expect constant praises, you will never grow or learn a thing. You will probably gather some audience around you, but that's about it. Real world is not a paradise, if someone can't handle it, they will never be successful in their life.
- Jul 7, 2019
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My biggest complaint is what some people call the "stairway to heaven" porn game trope. I'm sure you all know what it is but if you don't, most porn games have a certain order of sex. First starts with basic foreplay, then to handjobs, then to blowjobs/titjobs, then to vaginal and finally anal. Me personally I'm not a fan of the latter 2 in games so I usually check out after the first episode. Mix it up! Real life relationships don't have an end goal of anal and anal only! Let me get a blowjob in episode 9 instead of the anal I've been getting since episode 3!
The "Game Developer" badge makes me suspicious to talk about, but the truth is that I spend a lot more time playing other people's games than developing my own.
I think that a lot of the complaints are related to game style, there are somethings that work for some people and others don't. Is very hard to argue against such things as repetitive tasks when the top games on Patreon ranking are full of these things: lift weight, train, play a game to earn intelligence, dozens of times... I would bet that a lot of users like this kind of thing.
Looking from the effort x entertainment time perspective, what is more efficient: to spend one hour creating an unique image that the user will consume in a few seconds and will think "Ok, now what?"; or spend a few hours building a repetitive task that users would have to repeat dozens of times, keeping them entertainmented pursuing a bigger reward? But it's not all bad about this kind of resource, on Being a DIK that I recently played, I got addicted to the brawler game, where you fight using arrow keys.
About maps, I think that nowadays is a consensus that RPG maker games where you have to walk a lot with no purpose is a hateful thing, no matter how good will be the sex scene after. But sometimes this also could work, like on Last Sovereign, you don't get bored walking around, I really like that game. I have to mention that this is not a problem only with RPG Maker, there are top trending games on Unreal Engine, with outstanding scenarios, but in 5 minutes I get deadly bored to walk around from one region to the other.
I think that there are precious info on this thread, but you should be conscious that there are games that meet all listed complaints but they simply don't stand out, while others violate almost every one but attract thousands of players. Popularity and quality walk on very different paths.
I was talking one of these days with a friend that is becoming very frustrated as she believe that is making a quality product but is not attracting users, while some low quality games are. I said to her that this is how things works with the public, just like a singer that spent years and years studying music concepts, creating songs with harmonic melodies, meaningful lyrics, and all his life the most he can do is play in a few small bars. While from nowhere someone make a music in a complete lazy way, with absolutely no study, a lyric that are completely senseless, just a exciting chorus and reach millions of fans and make a lot of money.
I think that a lot of the complaints are related to game style, there are somethings that work for some people and others don't. Is very hard to argue against such things as repetitive tasks when the top games on Patreon ranking are full of these things: lift weight, train, play a game to earn intelligence, dozens of times... I would bet that a lot of users like this kind of thing.
Looking from the effort x entertainment time perspective, what is more efficient: to spend one hour creating an unique image that the user will consume in a few seconds and will think "Ok, now what?"; or spend a few hours building a repetitive task that users would have to repeat dozens of times, keeping them entertainmented pursuing a bigger reward? But it's not all bad about this kind of resource, on Being a DIK that I recently played, I got addicted to the brawler game, where you fight using arrow keys.
About maps, I think that nowadays is a consensus that RPG maker games where you have to walk a lot with no purpose is a hateful thing, no matter how good will be the sex scene after. But sometimes this also could work, like on Last Sovereign, you don't get bored walking around, I really like that game. I have to mention that this is not a problem only with RPG Maker, there are top trending games on Unreal Engine, with outstanding scenarios, but in 5 minutes I get deadly bored to walk around from one region to the other.
I think that there are precious info on this thread, but you should be conscious that there are games that meet all listed complaints but they simply don't stand out, while others violate almost every one but attract thousands of players. Popularity and quality walk on very different paths.
I was talking one of these days with a friend that is becoming very frustrated as she believe that is making a quality product but is not attracting users, while some low quality games are. I said to her that this is how things works with the public, just like a singer that spent years and years studying music concepts, creating songs with harmonic melodies, meaningful lyrics, and all his life the most he can do is play in a few small bars. While from nowhere someone make a music in a complete lazy way, with absolutely no study, a lyric that are completely senseless, just a exciting chorus and reach millions of fans and make a lot of money.
Here are some from me on the "don't list":
Flip Coin Choices
It's the kind of choices that only have one good outcome but the player has no way of knowing what consequences the choice will have. For example - you're walking through a forest and you get to a fork in a road, and you're given a choice -'go left' and 'go right'. If you go right you'll be eaten by a bear, if you go left you will find the Holly Grail.
Bad Bad End
Bad endings aren't always bad, some of them are fun (in a way) or interesting at least. But if your game has a bad end - make an autosave just before the last possible choice leading to that Bad End. I ain't gonna play the whole thing again because I dien't save each step.
Control the Skip
Don't make anything unskippable. If you're showing text - let me read it, I'll click when I'm done, don't scroll it, thankyouverymuch. If I want to save in the middle of a conversation or fight - for pips sake lemme do it!
Repeatable Random Events
It's not that hard to program random weighted choice ad change the weights after each event. I really hate it when the same event occurs five times in a row and even worse if everyone is acting as if it's the first time it happened.
Performance
This is more for the engine developers and I don't think there are many of them here, but still...
If your game looks like it would run on a SNES it shouldn't need a 4Ghz dual-core cpu and 8GB of ram to run, and it bloody well should run at more then 12fps (I'm looking at you rpgmaker).
If all the game is doing is showing a image (or ten) and some text it should run on a potato at 60fps and not freeze for 30seconds each time a new image is loaded.
Use the GPU for image manipulation! Please, shaders are easy, shaders are fast - use them!
If you're using the GPU - do you really need a openGL 4.x context for that blur shader? Really?
If you have a video animation, use video compression not image compression! bmp, jpeg png and even webp are no good for video. Slideshows are for PowerPoint.
Do you really need to pack, encode, hash, obfuscate your code, scripts, data? I'll rip, unpack and decompile it anyway if I want/need to. Don't waste your time, don't waste mine.
Flip Coin Choices
It's the kind of choices that only have one good outcome but the player has no way of knowing what consequences the choice will have. For example - you're walking through a forest and you get to a fork in a road, and you're given a choice -'go left' and 'go right'. If you go right you'll be eaten by a bear, if you go left you will find the Holly Grail.
Bad Bad End
Bad endings aren't always bad, some of them are fun (in a way) or interesting at least. But if your game has a bad end - make an autosave just before the last possible choice leading to that Bad End. I ain't gonna play the whole thing again because I dien't save each step.
Control the Skip
Don't make anything unskippable. If you're showing text - let me read it, I'll click when I'm done, don't scroll it, thankyouverymuch. If I want to save in the middle of a conversation or fight - for pips sake lemme do it!
Repeatable Random Events
It's not that hard to program random weighted choice ad change the weights after each event. I really hate it when the same event occurs five times in a row and even worse if everyone is acting as if it's the first time it happened.
Performance
This is more for the engine developers and I don't think there are many of them here, but still...
If your game looks like it would run on a SNES it shouldn't need a 4Ghz dual-core cpu and 8GB of ram to run, and it bloody well should run at more then 12fps (I'm looking at you rpgmaker).
If all the game is doing is showing a image (or ten) and some text it should run on a potato at 60fps and not freeze for 30seconds each time a new image is loaded.
Use the GPU for image manipulation! Please, shaders are easy, shaders are fast - use them!
If you're using the GPU - do you really need a openGL 4.x context for that blur shader? Really?
If you have a video animation, use video compression not image compression! bmp, jpeg png and even webp are no good for video. Slideshows are for PowerPoint.
Do you really need to pack, encode, hash, obfuscate your code, scripts, data? I'll rip, unpack and decompile it anyway if I want/need to. Don't waste your time, don't waste mine.
- Sep 21, 2016
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Jeez my last time writing here apparently was quite a few years back, So in all that time I have played a lot more games and encountered quite a lot of improvements and etc.
Like most people said here, keep the game consistent. Have good character development, keep no MATTER the ROUTE the characters/actors IN CHARACTER ( same personality,smarts,attitude etc ). If you have multiple routes in your game and each choice you make gives points and subtracts from another ( looking at you Arbiters Gaze ) Either have a guide or have the game hint or lay it out for you. If you want to use rpgm then don't make us walk all over the place for hours or no fucking reason, no need for 3 or 4 big maps if you can use 1 or 2 and make sure you have content for days on each of them, without having to go back and forth between em 60 times for a 10 sec scene. Be able to take criticism, be open and bold and explain exactly what you want to do what your vision is be clear about this and stick to the script!!. don't make promises you can't keep.
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Like most people said here, keep the game consistent. Have good character development, keep no MATTER the ROUTE the characters/actors IN CHARACTER ( same personality,smarts,attitude etc ). If you have multiple routes in your game and each choice you make gives points and subtracts from another ( looking at you Arbiters Gaze ) Either have a guide or have the game hint or lay it out for you. If you want to use rpgm then don't make us walk all over the place for hours or no fucking reason, no need for 3 or 4 big maps if you can use 1 or 2 and make sure you have content for days on each of them, without having to go back and forth between em 60 times for a 10 sec scene. Be able to take criticism, be open and bold and explain exactly what you want to do what your vision is be clear about this and stick to the script!!. don't make promises you can't keep.
- Feb 1, 2019
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Does anyone has his game? I want to know how good his game is.
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If you have stats in a game, I as a player want to understand how they work--what is the scale? 1-5? 1-10? 1-100? 1-255? 1-1000+? How do your stats affect interaction with NPCs and task resolutions/skill requirements, etc.
My other beef is that storylines advance incoherently--one character's storyline is nearly done, another has nothing, another has two or three scenes, and so forth. If you're going to have a main storyline and related subplots, try to advance things at the same pace.
Grinding should have a clear context, and the player should have some understanding of what he is gaining through repetitive tasks. I also think there's a world of difference between having to do something 5 to 10 times, and having to do it 50-100 times.
I just want to thank you for pointing this out, because it's aggravating watching this progression play out time and time again. I blame porn for this unrealistic sequence of events.
I'd say 80% of the girls in my lifetime, went from kissing, to groping, to sex. Then, after we had been together a couple of times, they got brave and wanted to do some oral and begin exploring. But a lot of stuff never happened until after she was comfortable with the basics. (Also it helps if you call them the next day...)
Like I said, that's been my experience.
I think the biggest piece of advice I could give to devs is LEARN YOUR FUCKING TOOLS.
If you're using Renpy, LEARN PYTHON!
If you're using Daz and doing 3D Modelling, LEARN LIGHTING, ANATOMY, AND HOW TO POSE FROM ZERO!
If you're writing a story, STUDY CREATIVE WRITING!
Anyone wanting to know where to get started with any of these three bullets, I have many resources written by legitimate authorities that I can recommend. In the last year I've spent as much time and money learning how to be good as I have developing my product.
Any monkey can go to the hardware store and buy a hammer and nails. Doesn't mean he's ready to build a house. If you don't want your game to get panned and you want people to enjoy it and take it seriously, learn the tools and build your tradecraft.
And for God's sake, stop writing stories where the character has "been away" for ten years and is returning and everyone is a stranger, but not a stranger, and you're getting to know each other all over again. This is lazy story telling. Learn to use narrative exposition properly and you can start your story anywhere in the action you want. That, or just make me a complete stranger. Then I can genuinely get to know your characters in real time. I've played six games in the last year that build on this premise and it's kind of done.
I apologize, I've not had my coffee yet this morning....
If you're using Renpy, LEARN PYTHON!
If you're using Daz and doing 3D Modelling, LEARN LIGHTING, ANATOMY, AND HOW TO POSE FROM ZERO!
If you're writing a story, STUDY CREATIVE WRITING!
Anyone wanting to know where to get started with any of these three bullets, I have many resources written by legitimate authorities that I can recommend. In the last year I've spent as much time and money learning how to be good as I have developing my product.
Any monkey can go to the hardware store and buy a hammer and nails. Doesn't mean he's ready to build a house. If you don't want your game to get panned and you want people to enjoy it and take it seriously, learn the tools and build your tradecraft.
And for God's sake, stop writing stories where the character has "been away" for ten years and is returning and everyone is a stranger, but not a stranger, and you're getting to know each other all over again. This is lazy story telling. Learn to use narrative exposition properly and you can start your story anywhere in the action you want. That, or just make me a complete stranger. Then I can genuinely get to know your characters in real time. I've played six games in the last year that build on this premise and it's kind of done.
I apologize, I've not had my coffee yet this morning....
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