VN Ren'Py ToxiCity [v0.11.0] [ILSProductions]

[Pixillin']

Cheers, I see your point, and I may be comparing this too much to Now&Then. But there, even if the situation was also stressful and every day was life and death.... the LIs seemed to care more for the MC. There was not a single LI in that one that felt I had to reject because they pissed me off. But I am feeling that here. I find it weird being that both games are from the same dev.

It might be that they want to explore different personalities on the LIs, or focus more on the stressful part of the situation or any number of things, but on that previous game I kept going into each situation dreading that any LI could die and here.... to be honest, wouldn't care too much (except for Kallie at the moment). It feels weird playing the game with that sentiment.

Well in N&T the first two at least had a close, personal relationship with MC before the disaster. This is different. They were co-workers MC & Laura had been work colleagues for awhile, but she wasn't even in the office much. They knew each other, but personal stuff never even came up. Kallie was pretty new and MC sortof had a crush, but she was the quiet girl who never really talked to anyone. So they are starting from completely different places than in the previous game. (Shelly obviously is a complete stranger.)

 

[Ottoeight]

They have to move anyway, there is absolutely nothing in the conference center that helps them at all - I think they found some more coffee and crackers and that's about it. They're going to be too weak to move if they don't find food soon.

Hopefully, they're going to find the campus' cafeteria, sooner than later.

I think the Lis are using MC to an extent, and he's using them - they are in a high stress situation, with not much to do to destress or unwind, so they fuck. (This actually happens in high stress situations, so no issues there). With Laura IDK what will happen with her husband, I don't really see her as a long term option - she has a kid just a little younger than MC. Kallie - could actually turn into something. She hasn't actually married her fiancé and their relationship is over. She's also only slightly young than MC. Shelly I have avoided because "don't put your dick in crazy". She has yandere like qualities so I'm trying no to encourage her. All that said though - we don't know if we're getting out of this alive, or if we are - exactly who is. We also don't know what this is, or how widespread it is - Kallie's fiance might be dead, same with Laura's fam. We just don't know. It's kinda silly to try to plan long term when every day is a life and death situation.

Kallie is 24. MC is 35ish, Laura is 35-40, Shelley is 20ish.

 

[e6mill]

Hopefully, they're going to find the campus' cafeteria, sooner than later.

Well, "burned ones" implies the existence of medium-rare ones....

 

[Pixillin']

Hopefully, they're going to find the campus' cafeteria, sooner than later.



Kallie is 24. MC is 35ish, Laura is 35-40, Shelley is 20ish.

I never heard any of them give an exact age. I just remembered that Kallie was recently in school and Laura has a kid in university.

 

[Anteron]

Didn't it say Laura has a kid almost as old as the MC? Even if she has a kid in college (as the oldest/only) she'd be probably older than 35-40.

 

[Sinisterpastry]

She had her kid young, and is about 40ish, so the math lines up. MC is about 35. "Almost as old" may have been an exaggeration there, or they may have been referring to Kallie.

 

[vanilla628]

Am I the only one that has issues with the LIs?

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and I loved the two previous games from the dev but the LIs in this one irk me a bit. Not that they aren't attractive, they are, but I feel like the relationship with the MC is less than ideal.

With Laura, I had the first sex scene and she says it is a mistake, her estranged husband... yadda, yadda, yadda... ok, no big issue, I understand her motivations and I felt it humanized the character. Then comes the second scene, and again exactly the same thing: "this is a mistake". Ok, now I felt more than a bit used to be honest. Like if I was just her comforter. She gets it out of her system and then I am just a mistake again. Cool.... so I avoided the next sex scenes with her. I am a mistake? well, I won't let you make that mistake again, thank you very much. I am sure your fingers can keep you happy.

Then comes Kallie. I must say I really, really like her. But unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels with the relationship with Laura. It is clear her fiance is abusive, it is clear she is going to leave him. I understand why the MC would hesitate and not want to take advantage of her. I understand she needs reassurance. So far I haven't dodged any scene with her but, to be honest, she is reaching my patience limit on the "we are not in a relationship but I need something warm to stick in me so I can feel better". Hopefully the devs start to show her caring more for the MC and a possible future together for the two.....

Finally, Shelley.... I think the devs are doing her a disservice to be honest, they are presenting her as ditzy, useless, a bit of an airhead, a bit slutty, unbalanced, a bit unhinged and also now off her meds. She is clearly a liability. Sure, so far I haven't dodged her scenes and of the three, I would think the MC would feel best having a purely sexual relationship with her. But that is not really a satisfying relationship either. Or one with any future. She is just a hole to fuck.

In all three cases, I feel like the LIs are using the MC and not really thinking about him, and in all three cases I feel like the MC goes along with it a bit too easily. Except maybe with Shelley, with whom it is clear they are both using each other. The MC clearly wants something more with Kallie and is aware she is using him to feel better herself and just goes along with it.

I don't know but... I don't think I would be ok with being used like that. I for sure wasn't after my own divorce. Even if it means having sex with a hot girl. The MC is in a very vulnerable estate of mind and recovering from the destruction his ex-wife did on him, none of the girls seem to care about that and the potential harm that their using him as a human dildo could do to him or his psyche. He is the only one that thinks about being careful with them.

This doesn't make me feel connected or care about the LIs and more than once I have felt that I will reject future advances (I do not want to go back and reload a save, feels like cheating the game) and end any romantic entanglement to just focus on survival and then everybody goes their own way once out of the fog (but then I would certainly not be captain save-a-hoe and Kallie can deal with Andrew, not my problem if I am just a human dildo to her).

Am I missing something? reading too much into this?

I certainly get where you're coming from with this. I definitely almost feel a certain amount of guilt with the MC getting with the different LIs at this point. Given they're still technically in relationships. Though I wouldn't say anyone (the LIs or MC) is using one another right now. At least to the extent you cannot say any relationship is using someone else for personal comfort/companionship.

What I see is a number of people with previously cordial relationships all of a sudden forced through a very traumatic, dangerous, and surreal event together. Which is only serving to aggravate their previous traumas, doubts, worries. At least in this case the MC being a relatively decent and reliable guy (I guess depending on your options but I don't really think you can be much of an ass, can you?) it's only natural quick and particularly strong relationships are going to form. Given the circumstances. So sure, the MC is definitely helping these individuals deal with both the situation they're in and their traumas, they rely on him pretty heavily at this point. I guess in a way you could say that's being used.

But honestly I think they're just forming relationships. The MC is certainly getting stuff in return. And I don't just mean physical intimacy. I don't think anyone would last long in a situation like this by yourself. The MC has people to confide in, people to care about him, help him, give him some sense of "groundedness" given the unbelievable situation they're in. They're in the bloody Mist/zombie apocalypse after all. He needs them as much as they need him. Otherwise I doubt he would have lasted this long.

 

[Anteron]

I certainly get where you're coming from with this. I definitely almost feel a certain amount of guilt with the MC getting with the different LIs at this point. Given they're still technically in relationships still.

Shelley isn't.

 

[mordred93]

All I can say with all this relationship talk, people do stupid things for stupid reasons. They cheat, they rationalize, they need an endorphin rush, etc. What ever the reason, it doesn't have to be love, they need to have their own sanity to make it through this situation. Everyone, even the MC, has mental issues to get through. What is the problem with a little closeness, and feeling good? Yeah one has a husband, one has a fiance. However they are both pretty much going to break up with them, but will they break up with them for the MC or for their own good? Doesn't matter, they both pretty much have to face themselves in the future, if they make it.

 

[Ottoeight]

Am I the only one that has issues with the LIs?

Well, yes you are.

Did you forget that is is supposed to be an erotic tale? Who would you want MC to fuck? those burned monsters?

 

[Pixillin']

Well, yes you are.

Did you forget that is is supposed to be an erotic tale? Who would you want MC to fuck? those burned monsters?

Nah it's good. I mean the characters have issues with it. I'm not a big fan of any kind of cheating but there are ... circumstances. Personally I feel like, with the possible exception of Kallie, they're more pessimistic than they're letting on about getting to the finish line alive (and finding the other people in their lives still alive as well).

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I certainly get where you're coming from with this. I definitely almost feel a certain amount of guilt with the MC getting with the different LIs at this point. Given they're still technically in relationships. Though I wouldn't say anyone (the LIs or MC) is using one another right now. At least to the extent you cannot say any relationship is using someone else for personal comfort/companionship.

What I see is a number of people with previously cordial relationships all of a sudden forced through a very traumatic, dangerous, and surreal event together. Which is only serving to aggravate their previous traumas, doubts, worries. At least in this case the MC being a relatively decent and reliable guy (I guess depending on your options but I don't really think you can be much of an ass, can you?) it's only natural quick and particularly strong relationships are going to form. Given the circumstances. So sure, the MC is definitely helping these individuals deal with both the situation they're in and their traumas, they rely on him pretty heavily at this point. I guess in a way you could say that's being used.

But honestly I think they're just forming relationships. The MC is certainly getting stuff in return. And I don't just mean physical intimacy. I don't think anyone would last long in a situation like this by yourself. The MC has people to confide in, people to care about him, help him, give him some sense of "groundedness" given the unbelievable situation they're in. They're in the bloody Mist/zombie apocalypse after all. He needs them as much as they need him. Otherwise I doubt he would have lasted this long.

I'll add a few of my own thoughts about the MC and the LI situation:

The MC was coasting/existing after the breakup of his marriage; it felt like it was almost 'Groundhog Day' in the sameness of the weekdays (and I'm guessing weekends).

Disasters can break some people and for others, they find purpose.

I think this disaster forced change on the MC. It woke him up from his daily grind of sameness and forced him to examine the world around him and he chose to start to live again (it truly was either that or just give up and die).

At first, he was isolated, having barely more than work acquaintance relationships with both Kallie and Laura, but the disaster and time spent together, depending on each other, brought the MC, Kallie and Laura all closer to each other.

Physical intimacy is a choice we make for the MC - and I was fine with the way that intimacy evolved with both Laura and Kallie. The MC recognizes that he needs to let the women know he is being intimate with both of them and is wrestling with the 'how' to do that without creating dangerous drama that the group cannot afford.

I don't think this makes him weak; I think this makes him human and less than perfect. He has two women that chose Him for intimacy after being emasculated in his marriage for some amount of time. This is a kind of affirmation that he did not have in the sameness of his old 'I'm just an ex' life.

He regularly has an internal dialogue trying to make sure he is not taking advantage of either Laura or Kallie (and I think that the f buddy status he has with Shelley helps in this). Both women are adults and less than perfect. He is a part of their affirmation that they are attractive and desirable, even without makeup and all the modern amenities that they would have had access to prior to the disaster.

The MC is responsible, invested in protecting and caring for both Laura and Kallie, and he is still the good guy whose conscience will not allow him to let Shelley just stay in the dorms - f buddy or not (even knowing she is out of her meds).

I absolutely agree with you about the range of benefits that each person in the group offers the others in the group, including:

* Others to talk with (like it is easier for Shelley to talk with Kallie than Laura)
* Maternal caring (Laura, even after her break, still wants to help protect Kallie from her fiancée)
* Mutual protection - literally guarding each other's backs
* Being reminded that they are not alone and can rely on others and benefit from a broader group skill set (early on, Kallie contributed by making fast food for the group - pre-Shelley - even though she felt that she was unable to offer the group much beyond that)

Success in this situation is - survived a move to a new location; a day where no one got injured or overly exposed to the caustic fog; found a relatively secure place to stay for the night.

The current location is hardly ideal from a food/comfort/extended stay perspective, but 4 sets of eyes offer improved protection and a better chance to notice something important versus the 'man alone' scenario.

Cheers!!

 

[Edhinor]

Well, yes you are.

Did you forget that is is supposed to be an erotic tale? Who would you want MC to fuck? those burned monsters?

Wow, way to misunderstand my post .

Who would I want to fuck?

How about a Laura that doesn't say all the time that fucking me is a mistake? Maybe after the second time, or some days after, she could approach the MC and say "you know what, I have been thinking, and no, this wasn't a mistake, this is something I want, thanks for being there for me, lets do this more often but now without me regretting it as soon as it is finished" .

How about a Kallie that says "hey, thanks for supporting me and helping me get over my self-image issues caused by Andrew, I am not 100% healed yet, but I want to do the same to you when it comes to your self-image issues caused by your ex" but no, instead she says "call me pretty I need it" and to you she says "do not say you are not handsome, it is not attractive". If you can't see how that is one sided, I do not know what to tell you.

How about a Shelley.... well, not sure where to start with Shelly, as I said, I honestly have the least issues with her, and that says something when she is pretty useless by her own admission.

 

[Edhinor]

I'll add a few of my own thoughts about the MC and the LI situation:

The MC was coasting/existing after the breakup of his marriage; it felt like it was almost 'Groundhog Day' in the sameness of the weekdays (and I'm guessing weekends).

Disasters can break some people and for others, they find purpose.

I think this disaster forced change on the MC. It woke him up from his daily grind of sameness and forced him to examine the world around him and he chose to start to live again (it truly was either that or just give up and die).

At first, he was isolated, having barely more than work acquaintance relationships with both Kallie and Laura, but the disaster and time spent together, depending on each other, brought the MC, Kallie and Laura all closer to each other.

Physical intimacy is a choice we make for the MC - and I was fine with the way that intimacy evolved with both Laura and Kallie. The MC recognizes that he needs to let the women know he is being intimate with both of them and is wrestling with the 'how' to do that without creating dangerous drama that the group cannot afford.

I don't think this makes him weak; I think this makes him human and less than perfect. He has two women that chose Him for intimacy after being emasculated in his marriage for some amount of time. This is a kind of affirmation that he did not have in the sameness of his old 'I'm just an ex' life.

He regularly has an internal dialogue trying to make sure he is not taking advantage of either Laura or Kallie (and I think that the f buddy status he has with Shelley helps in this). Both women are adults and less than perfect. He is a part of their affirmation that they are attractive and desirable, even without makeup and all the modern amenities that they would have had access to prior to the disaster.

The MC is responsible, invested in protecting and caring for both Laura and Kallie, and he is still the good guy whose conscience will not allow him to let Shelley just stay in the dorms - f buddy or not (even knowing she is out of her meds).

I absolutely agree with you about the range of benefits that each person in the group offers the others in the group, including:

* Others to talk with (like it is easier for Shelley to talk with Kallie than Laura)
* Maternal caring (Laura, even after her break, still wants to help protect Kallie from her fiancée)
* Mutual protection - literally guarding each other's backs
* Being reminded that they are not alone and can rely on others and benefit from a broader group skill set (early on, Kallie contributed by making fast food for the group - pre-Shelley - even though she felt that she was unable to offer the group much beyond that)

Success in this situation is - survived a move to a new location; a day where no one got injured or overly exposed to the caustic fog; found a relatively secure place to stay for the night.

The current location is hardly ideal from a food/comfort/extended stay perspective, but 4 sets of eyes offer improved protection and a better chance to notice something important versus the 'man alone' scenario.

Cheers!!

Well, see, that is kind of my point, besides the potential benefit of having several sets of eyes, the LIs do not really contribute that much to the MCs well being. Other than casual sex. I think that Laura continuously saying that hooking up with the MC is a mistake would actually be harmful not only because of the stressful situation, but also because of the trauma the MC has from his divorce.

I think Kallie is close to that line, but not really across it yet. She definitely needs the MC more than the MC needs her, and that is fine, but she is definitely using him to get a boost to her self-image while more or less demanding that the MC gets over his own self-image issues without helping him.

And Shelley.... I honestly think the devs are being too hard on her, as I mentioned. They paint a picture of someone that is a clear liability. I think the MC is behaving extremely well with her, protecting her, being understanding, and, to be honest, he is even putting the group at risk by not talking openly about her unmedicated issues. That shit could endanger the other two and neither Shelley nor the MC is doing anyone any favor by keeping it secret. I wish the devs gave Shelley some more redeeming qualities, that they made her be a bit more useful, at least know a bit about her surroundings in the school? be a bit of a guide? she doesn't know what is around the school after a year or two being there? how much of an airhead is she? is it even believable that she would be this dumb?

 

[LokkenJP]

Well... Kinderfeld hasn't been around here for ages, so all this is just empty gossip, as nothing said in this thread will help (neither harm) the game.

Having said this. I do have some issues about how the first two LIs were presented into the game indeed. But so far i think it has been pretty well handled. About the third girl, Shelley, shes still the newcomer so it may pass some time before she settles in, but more on this later.

In detail for each girl:

For Laura, fooling around with someone whos married, even on those circumstances was at first... not cool to put it bluntly. Of course we ended up knowing more about her mental place and struggles. But then again, oof...
Also, I'd admit having to listen to her regrets so frequently didn't make that easier at all. But I believe this has drastically changed, for the better, on the latest v0.09.

For Kallie. Again, the starting point was not so great. Being engaged and planning the wedding, and at first we didn't had any reason to hate that Andrew guy. Even as the story progressed, probably due to Kallie's own extremely introvert nature, the full context was hard to discover. Granted now we know that the Andrew guy is a piece of shit (or well, we think we know, there's always two sides to the story, but let's just assume that all that Kallie told us was not only her truth, but the closest narrative possible to the actual truth).
As for her, I'm not able to say anything bad of her. She's shy, introvert, probably on the verge of some milder ASD, and she has been on an abusive relationship for quite some time. She's not in a mental place to be able to offer much help to the MC with his divorce issues. In fact, I believe she probably won't be able to do so even on her best days, without the toxic fog, given her character, so even less right now. You might like it, or you might now. Like with any girl on the real world. If you cannot get around the fact that she's not the most empathic girl around, then just friend her and don't pursue her romatically.
Also, as another poster said above, just the fact that the MC has now to carry the weight of the group and care for Kallie (and the others) was probably and by itself the best possible therapy for his divorce issues. That will force his mind to move forward, to find purpose, to feel useful, and to notice that mistakes happen on you and all around you, and the best possible outcome is to learn from them and keep pushing.

As for Shelley... Well, she's what she's is. A university girl, which usually is not the most stable age stage for anyone, but also on a girl with BPAD which has been unable to follow treatment for days/weeks. Honestly, she's been much less of a liability of what she could have been in the real world. Once the initial natural distrust faded, she's been supportive, caring, affective, (and not only with the MC but with the whole group, even with Laura in spite of their initial friction) and even if she believe she's pretty useless, that's far from the truth. On an scenario like the one presented in the game, every single body counts. If only to exchange a few words and not going mad. And Shelley has been able to do much more than that. Granted she's still naive and inexperienced, and she cannot heavy lift like the others. But also have in mind she's at this point, and until we meet the fourth and final LI, the newcomer as I said above, and it could take some time for her to fully settle in.
If I were in the MC shoes, I'd take Shelley with me in the group any day of the week and twice on sundays. And not because of charity or pity, but out of need.
And about the fact of hiding her metal struggles from the rest of the group. Yes, they're not doing any favor to Laura and Kallie by hiding it. But it won't probably make much of a difference if that went public, and mental health stigma is a big thing. A quite realistic reaction and request if you ask me. Even if it's not "practical".

 

[Edhinor]

Well... Kinderfeld hasn't been around here for ages, so all this is just empty gossip, as nothing said in this thread will help (neither harm) the game.

Cheers, I see totally where you are coming from with your post and I must say I agree with most of it (and I have made my position clear on my issues with the LIs so won't reiterate those), I hope I didn't come across as wanting to harm the game or being a hater.

I am really enjoying the game, I just have an issue with the sexual relationships with the LIs, which is a funny thing to say when it comes to a adult game. I was more than anything feeling weird that I was considering continuing the game as a pure survival-horror game, focusing on getting out of there alive, but avoiding any entanglement with the LIs for the reasons I gave.

I don't know, didn't feel the same way at all with the previous games from ILS.... I absolutely loved those and the LIs in them. And I wanted to write it down as it helps me to analyze why I feel a certain way and see if anyone had different views to reevaluate my own and maybe to be able to continue the game with the LIs instead of avoiding them.

So thanks for providing your views!

I guess I will have to wait until future updates, see what Kallie evolves into, if Shelley becomes less of a liability and what that potential 4th LI is like (I think my vision of Laura is a bit too damaged now to consider her a viable LI, but I am still holding hope that I am wrong).

 

[mordred93]

Its really simple, in N&T - there were 2 people who had significant others (Julie and Alice), and they are known dead at the point they met the MC. In TID, none of the girls had significant others. So this game, 2 of the 4 LI (and we still don't know about the 4th yet), have a significant other (which we don't know their status). This means it is the first time in a ILS game, you are dealing with a LI, which you are taking from someone else.

 

[Walter Victor]

With Laura, I had the first sex scene and she says it is a mistake, her estranged husband... yadda, yadda, yadda... ok, no big issue, I understand her motivations and I felt it humanized the character. Then comes the second scene, and again exactly the same thing: "this is a mistake". Ok, now I felt more than a bit used to be honest. Like if I was just her comforter. She gets it out of her system and then I am just a mistake again. Cool.... so I avoided the next sex scenes with her. I am a mistake? well, I won't let you make that mistake again, thank you very much. I am sure your fingers can keep you happy.

How about a Laura that doesn't say all the time that fucking me is a mistake? Maybe after the second time, or some days after, she could approach the MC and say "you know what, I have been thinking, and no, this wasn't a mistake, this is something I want, thanks for being there for me, lets do this more often but now without me regretting it as soon as it is finished" .

Methinks you gave up on Laura exactly one scene too soon, because what you wanted is pretty close to what happened in this last update.

Oh, well!

 

[Raziel_8]

Its really simple, in N&T - there were 2 people who had significant others (Julie and Alice), and they are known dead at the point they met the MC. In TID, none of the girls had significant others. So this game, 2 of the 4 LI (and we still don't know about the 4th yet), have a significant other (which we don't know their status). This means it is the first time in a ILS game, you are dealing with a LI, which you are taking from someone else.

To be fair, in N&T it wasn't clear if Alice's husband was dead, they assumed so (likely rightfully), but the dude could still be around.

In Kallie's case the relationship is over and done, at least on her part. If the fiance is alive or not doesn't really matter at this point imo, thought, i would find a confrontation with him nice... followed up by throwing him to the burned ones as snack.

In Lauras's case, yeah...i really don't want to get involved in her mess of a marriage and family life.

 

[Anteron]

One big difference here is the enemies are only the monsters - no "bad humans" who were the bigger threat in N&T.