VN Ren'Py ToxiCity [v0.11.0] [ILSProductions]

[Avaron1974]

Is there any humor or lightheartedness in this game or is it all horror, depression type stuff? I need some moments of levity to enjoy a story.

Just horror, nothing amusing i've seen.

 

[EvolutionKills]

You all have finally convinced me. They should just sit in that house, cover the windows like one would in a blackout, barricade the doors, and sit around and suck on their thumbs until it all just goes awayyyy...

I didn't realize that I was in the presence of so many survival experts.

I'll just let you all fight it out on just what they should do, exactly. That is, if you have any ideas except calling them stupid. Saying they should NOT do what they did is not good enough. I want to see alternatives.

By the way, I've already seen what happens when someone makes an alternate suggestion. That poster immediately get shot down. So, I guess just calling them stupid is the smart play.

There is a whole lot of people missing the forest for the trees here, that's for sure.

If you can't get outside of your own head enough to stop nitpicking a narrative because the characters are making choices you personally disagree with, rather than going along with the journey to see how other people make mistakes in the face of adversity? I feel like you're kinda missing the entire point.

Pro Tip: Nitpicking perceived plot holes is not actually substantive critique. Cinema-Sins is actual garbage, you have to do better than that.

If you are someone getting hung up more on the implausibility of the Empire leaving in a critical design flaw in their moon sized super weapon that could be exploited by a single Rebellion pilot who's only flight training up to that point had been taking pot-shots at wildlife with terrestrial speeders, rather than getting caught up in the emotional through line of the hero's journey? Again, missing the forest for the trees. They also sound insufferably miserable, and being stuck in a room with them watching any movie would be low-key torture.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Is there any humor or lightheartedness in this game or is it all horror, depression type stuff? I need some moments of levity to enjoy a story.

I mean, the MC has a sense of humor and he makes use of it, even if it leans towards gallows humor given their circumstances. It certainty isn't as jokey as your average Marvel movie, but it's not trauma porn either. As bad as their situation is, it's not as bleak as say... that first Tomb Raider reboot from 2013, that included dozens of horribly graphic and gruesome death scenes amidst the constant cavalcade of Lara getting the ever living shit kicked out of her for the entire game. So, there is that at least.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

A thought on the current state of affairs for our intrepid band of office workers + a college student.

We (everyone on this thread) are all on this journey with as much rest/food/stress relief/companionship as we choose to avail ourselves of.

It is easy to say stupid choice 'this' or I would have done 'that' from the perch of all of the above.

How many of us have driven too far when we are really tired and almost/actually driven off the road (I have)?

I can't speak for anyone else but being 'woken' from a semi-daze in the dead of night as the rumble strip on the side of the road warned me that I'm not in the right lane got my attention in a big way (then doing everything I can do to be uncomfortable so I will stay awake/more alert until I reach a safe place to pull over and rest).

Maybe 30 minutes later, I was fading and had close to tunnel vision, just trying to finish the drive and get to a hotel (and yes - the efforts to stay uncomfortable and thus, more aware, had faded - so slower reaction time, focused on the car's lights in front of me as the heavy snow came down and - oh shit - those are break lights...brake ... brake... brake... don't skid/spin out...)

Now - imagine never truly getting that good rest (stress/bad diet/poor sleeping conditions/the need to always be on/the constantly threatening environment with new monsters) and going for week after week...

MC and the group are getting worn out!

We get some insight into the MC's current state of mind, and he knows it is not good, but he genuinely feels that he is all the group has, and he is getting used up.

Spoiler: Early CH 11 MC thoughts

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Through it all, he is still trying to be the hero and save everyone in his group, but he is getting used up - the panic attack here and seeing things in the hallway on the journey to leave the school say, to me at least, that he is close to the end of his ability to drive on no matter what.

Less than a week ago, he saw a perfectly healthy college guy get jumped by a burned one right in front of him and get turned - with nothing he could do to save him.

One day ago, they ran into a human woman who was Not a monster - she even told them where they could rest and to just get out of there as she didn't want to kill 4 people.

Given all this, I understand the MC seeing a human female (what she looked like in the fog) calling for help - she did not look like the witch he had seen outside the door, and he tried to help.

It did not work out - as we all know - but this is the first time he saw the transformation from female to witch so they are still leaning monster ecology the hard way.

They now know about one of the ways witches are created/how they turn (and several for the creation of burned ones) so future attempts to try to rescue someone/something well concealed in the fog Would be suicidal and to be avoided if there is Any doubt about what it can be.

We can judge the MC's actions from that perch of safe/rested/well-fed observer but IMO - that perch is quite far from the reality of the MC and his group's situation.

If you have never been dead tired for a prolonged period of time or you have not had the kind of driving experience I used as an example above, then I understand it would be harder for you to empathize with just how bone tired the MC and his group is and how that can impact decision-making.

IMO, reflecting on that kind of RL experience makes me extend a measure of grace to the MC and the group for their bad decisions.

If you can't empathize with what I've said - then I understand how you view some of the MC's (and Laura's ) actions through a different lense.

Cheers!!

 

[phinny1]

There is a whole lot of people missing the forest for the trees here, that's for sure.

The problem is that when you see tree after tree that is mystifyingly stupid it's hard to look past those mystifyingly stupid trees and see the entire forest.

Now - imagine never truly getting that good rest (stress/bad diet/poor sleeping conditions/the need to always be on/the constantly threatening environment with new monsters) and going for week after week...

Don't patronize me son, I survived the great toilet paper shortage of '19.

 

[Shadesishere]

Don't patronize me son, I survived the great toilet paper shortage of '19.

LOL, I love the silliness of this comparison.
bunch of people panic buying toilet paper as though it would somehow keep them alive (what were they gonna do? eat it? I actually said that to one woman that had over half a big trolley of toilet paper back when the panic buying was at its height, the look on her face was hilarious, a single standard pack of bog roll should last a couple of months for a family of three unless they are using huge wads of it)

I honestly despair at the thought of what would happen if an actual real food shortage happened today, military would have to step in to handle the idiots and divvy up whatever they could.

 

[e6mill]

a single standard pack of bog roll should last a couple of months for a family of three unless they are using huge wads of it)

I used to have similar ideas - and then the gf moved in...

 

[Coder62]

Spoiler: ch11 spoiler

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It's worth pointing out that this was a Witch who literally just turned, we have no idea what the others who've been Witches for a while are capable of.

 

[Raziel_8]

If you are someone getting hung up more on the implausibility of the Empire leaving in a critical design flaw in their moon sized super weapon that could be exploited by a single Rebellion pilot who's only flight training up to that point had been taking pot-shots at wildlife with terrestrial speeders, rather than getting caught up in the emotional through line of the hero's journey? Again, missing the forest for the trees. They also sound insufferably miserable, and being stuck in a room with them watching any movie would be low-key torture.

I think there is a bit of difference in the medium. It's one thing watching a movie for 90min or so, or reading a VN for a long time, playing as and making choices for the MC etc.
Even then, there is something like breaking suspension of disbelief...just looking at the latest star wars movie...well among other problems

We get some insight into the MC's current state of mind, and he knows it is not good, but he genuinely feels that he is all the group has, and he is getting used up.

Through it all, he is still trying to be the hero and save everyone in his group, but he is getting used up - the panic attack here and seeing things in the hallway on the journey to leave the school say, to me at least, that he is close to the end of his ability to drive on no matter what.

I agree and frankly i hope we will see him breaking down soon, for one reason, i hope the girls are forced to play a more active role and the MC needs to learn to share burdens.
Thought i do find it annoying that he on the one hand is judging the situation in a realistic way and on the other hand, despite realizing he is key for their survival, is constantly making ''sacrifices'', don't eating, not good sleeping etc, which he should be plainly aware that he isn't doing the group any favor and even after being called out on it, his first thought is how to do it more secretly...or as he said someone is expandable, yes true, but that someone ain't you, as you have correctly realized their survival depends on you...

Given all this, I understand the MC seeing a human female calling for help (what she looked like in the fog) - she did not look like the witch he had seen outside the door, and he tried to help.

It did not work out - as we all know - but this is the first time he saw the transformation from female to witch so they are still leaning monster ecology the hard way.

They now know about one of the ways witches are created/how they turn (and several for the creation of burned ones) so future attempts to try to rescue someone/something well concealed in the fog Would be suicidal and to be avoided if there is Any doubt about what it can be.

He didn't know it was a human as he decided to rush to her, he only saw it seconds bevor shit hit the fan, to no ones surprise.
I don't say he shouldn't have tried to help (thought personaly i find it a pretty dumb idea), but at least be careful... try to call/talk to her, draw attaintion first etc, at least you can judge from the reaction you get.
Rushing in blindly, after seeing the witches twice before was dumb, sorry no way arround. He should have been really careful, i mean, the guy even thinks ''don't be a witch, don't be witch., don't be a witch'', he is plainly aware that what he does is dumb and really risky...kinda reminded me at one of those dumb horror movies, where you see them doing the most dumb shit so they can get killed.

Also not the first time they were surprised by something well concealed in the fog...that leason should be really not needed again at this point.

Well it kinda fits his hero complex, which is something i hate in general, especially in a setting like this.

We can judge the MC's actions from that perch of safe/rested/well-fed observer but IMO - that perch is quite far from the reality of the MC and his group's situation.

That explains some of their actions, sure.
But others not so much, like Laura's idea to follow and sneak up on a armed, presumably hostile person...and she knows where that girl stays, what was even the point for taking such a risk...if you wanna know more about her talk with the MC and go to the shop to talk with the girl, no need sneaking up a armed person which probably will shoot you because she mistakes you for a burned one/witch/bandid, or just doesn't like being followed.
Or at the very least call the MC before rushing out, she needed to get changed and had time to write a letter so that shouldn't have been a problem...

 

[Lathe29]

Man, I can't believe the office workers dropped in to some life or death situation didn't turn out to be survival experts.

The most believable thing is that people make stupid choices.

 

[Wicks99]

Just finished up to V0.10.0 and what an immersive experience.

As one of the minority who prefers Interim Domain over Now & Then, I wasn't too excited to learn that Toxicity is sort of a back to N&T roots thing. But jeez this is way better than N&T IMO and a demonstration of the improvement in Kinderfeld's craft as a developer.

The LIs in Toxicity are much better crafted and one thing that I've never experienced in N&T and TID is in his previous games, usually my order of preference is very stable. Once a new LI is introduced, her position in my harem is more or less fixed throughout the game.

I think for N&T and TID only Hana and Selene respectively started off meh for me and then subsequently moved up the list as their characters developed and more is revealed, how I feel about the rest is more or less consistent throughout.

For Toxicity just 10 chapters in, my disposition towards just these three ladies has moved multiple times. Started off with Laura > Kallie, then Kallie > Laura, then Kallie > Laura > Shelly, then Kallie > Shelly > Laura, now moving towards Kallie = Shelly > Laura.

Of course every player will have a different preference, but internally for me to experience such fluid movements is a testament to how well done character development is in Toxicity i.e. I am learning something new of each girl in each chapter and that affects my resonance with them significantly over the course of the story.

And of course we have the incredible efficiency and work ethics of ILSP. One meaty update per month throughout the years, almost weekly devlogs, monthly set of wallpapers and an official updated walkthough. Puts most other developers who cannot produce anything for 6 months other than IRL complains to shame.

 

[Avaron1974]

I know there is the debate that people wouldn't know what they were going to do in a situation like that so it's hard to criticise.....


Buuuuuuuuuut......

I do like to think no one here would be dumb enough to walk up to someone standing around in the fog knowing the witches can talk.

That was, quite possibly, the most dumbfuck move i've seen someone pull in a survival scenario.

He deserved to die for being so damn stupid.

 

[ppbeater]

MVP goes to Laura because she managed to hit the witch in the fog, glad we don't have storm troopers in this story
Is Laura meant to be standing by the bushes?

 

[pra86]

I mean, the MC has a sense of humor and he makes use of it, even if it leans towards gallows humor given their circumstances. It certainty isn't as jokey as your average Marvel movie, but it's not trauma porn either. As bad as their situation is, it's not as bleak as say... that first Tomb Raider reboot from 2013, that included dozens of horribly graphic and gruesome death scenes amidst the constant cavalcade of Lara getting the ever living shit kicked out of her for the entire game. So, there is that at least.

This made me laugh till my sides hurt. I remember playing that game, excited about a fresh reboot of the Tomb Raider series.
Half an hour later, I was wondering how Lara's bones hadn't been turned to powder by then.
Another hour later, I was treating the whole game as a joke.

I think the in-game situation has to be bleak, considering the setting and circumstances. That being said, it's definitely not just grimdark misery porn, which seems to have become the staple of most male authors today.

 

[Meiri]

You all have finally convinced me. They should just sit in that house, cover the windows like one would in a blackout, barricade the doors, and sit around and suck on their thumbs until it all just goes awayyyy...

I didn't realize that I was in the presence of so many survival experts.

I'll just let you all fight it out on just what they should do, exactly. That is, if you have any ideas except calling them stupid. Saying they should NOT do what they did is not good enough. I want to see alternatives.

By the way, I've already seen what happens when someone makes an alternate suggestion. That poster immediately get shot down. So, I guess just calling them stupid is the smart play.

Checking if that was a real person outside would have been ok maybe a few days after the fog but not now, it goes against everything they should have learnt at this point: the warnings against the witch, the other survivors he found that threatened or tried to kill him and him knowing that extended contact with the fog seems to be what it's turning people, even the previous encounter with a survivor this same episode already didn't work well for the group...

Maybe we just see it differently but for me It doesn't take a survival expert to see that what they are doing is just plain stupid, specially when you already know that it's basically him carrying the group. How are they are going to survive if he gets hurt or dies?

Staying inside the house, barricading everything they can and waiting until they are recovered and can move again, that's the only thing they can do in their current state.

 

[Lynava]

Checking if that was a real person outside would have been ok maybe a few days after the fog but not now, it goes against everything they should have learnt at this point: the warnings against the witch, the other survivors he found that threatened or tried to kill him and him knowing that extended contact with the fog seems to be what it's turning people, even the previous encounter with a survivor this same episode already didn't work well for the group...

Maybe we just see it differently but for me It doesn't take a survival expert to see that what they are doing is just plain stupid, specially when you already know that it's basically him carrying the group. How are they are going to survive if he gets hurt or dies?

Staying inside the house, barricading everything they can and waiting until they are recovered and can move again, that's the only thing they can do in their current state.

We're looking at this from our perspective, but let's remember that many people might do like Laura in the dorm and run outside. So, this is a moot point.

 

[sigvar]

Damn it. Does every update have to end in such a cliffhanger? Always when things are getting good too.

 

[Lynava]

Damn it. Does every update have to end in such a cliffhanger? Always when things are getting good too.

Yes, every time and this makes us EXPECT the update very strongly.

 

[mordred93]

You know .. having been in the situation of being frayed edge of sanity, nerves are shot because you are 100% in fight of flight for months on end. Yeah .. You can make some stupid decisions. A couple weeks in, when you have little food, lack of sleep, and always on edge. Man, that does take a toll. I snapped at about 9 months, and needed help, which I was lucky to get. Not much else when you are alone, and have people relying on you. God, then the terrible two's hit them both, and it was so much worse, but I could handle it better, thus made it out alive.

 

[w123t4]

So the spoiler is true, the new Li really have nice big boob.