VN Ren'Py ToxiCity [v0.13.0] [ILSProductions]

[alri]

The update speed here is notable.
I don't always find a game right when it updates, or play it immediately, but I have a feeling I just very recently binged through those first 12 chapters, and here I get another one to tuckme in before new years.

The game basically updates more or less like clockwork every month and the updates are always sizable. The same was true for the previous games too, as far as I remember, maybe cadence was slower, but it was definitely super regular.

I think it is fair to say that Kinderfeld is the most productive developer on this site.

 

[Siphon]

No, it's in or near Georgia.

I would say it is in Georgia, but maybe South or North Carolina. A good distance away, but not so far that Kallie would object to it when Andrew moved her there.

But yes, N&T technically featured real cities... Except they looked nothing like they do IRL, and were sometimes in the wrong location.

 

[rudy007]

Happy Holidays to all from ILS Productions

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12 hours ago



Hope you all have a wonderful holiday season! Thanks for an amazing 2025 and looking forward to 2026. We'll be in and out over the next week, but back at it by the New Year.






Thanks for your patronage.
-Kinderfeld

 

[jamouyi]

another thing i noticed is the ac units, i googled this shit so a ac unit under normal conditions last 15-20 years and with toxic acidic air which i assume is the same as in the game last 7-12 years. so does this toxic air only affect certain things cuz it is damaging certain things more than others when having an ac unit shouldnt be out of commission so quickly. this toxic air seems to have magical properties or is there some real world equivalent that does the same as in the game cuz this also needs a look at. also dont tell me anything about this is a game and dont bring RL stuff in cuz the only unreal thing in this game atm is the toxic air and burned ones while everything else is normal ish.

i need a proper back and forth to my theories

 

[danb35]

ac units

The biggest problem with them is that the dev seems to completely misunderstand how they work.* Residential central A/C in the SE US (where we're set) doesn't draw in air from outside; it recirculates the air in the house. The more you run the unit, the more you blow the fog/mist/whatever over the condenser coil (outside), and therefore the more you shorten the lifespan of the system, but it isn't going to bring the fog inside.

I'm pretty sure this is true of commercial systems as well (e.g., in the office buildings), but I'm not as familiar with them.

toxic air seems to have magical properties

Yes, it does.

is there some real world equivalent that does the same as in the game

Not really. The closest I've come up with (or that I've seen discussed in this thread) would be something corrosive. That would account for skin, eye, and lung irritation. It would account for being able to wash it off with water. It would account, perhaps, for disabling or degrading wireless communications (because it could damage antennae, cables, or connections). It could account for disabling vehicles.

But then there's a lot that's unexplained. If it's corrosive enough to disable a vehicle in a matter of minutes (as I've seen it do once, and apparently happens again in the latest update), Laura should be dead--she was out in this shit, unprotected, for hours before she returned to the office building at the start of the game. If it's corrosive, why are exposed metals not damaged? Why are landline communications affected? Why is power still on? How does this stuff, apparently (we haven't actually seen this happen, but it's the working understanding of our cast), turn people into Burned Ones/Witches? I could go on, but I think that's enough.

So, if I can't explain it IRL, I'm going to call it supernatural. Maybe it's aliens, maybe it's something to do with the hidden burial ground we saw teased at MC's home very early on, maybe something else, but that's where I've landed for the time being.

* Yes, yes. It's just a game, I should really just relax.

 

[Meiri]

I think by this point we all pretty much expect it to be supernatural, probably related to what the tv news were showing near the beginning of the game.

 

[erkper]

If it's corrosive enough to disable a vehicle in a matter of minutes (as I've seen it do once, and apparently happens again in the latest update), Laura should be dead--she was out in this shit, unprotected, for hours before she returned to the office building at the start of the game.

Was she though? She was in her car, protected in the same way they all are while in a vehicle or in a building, the vast majority of that time. She did walk, unprotected, from her broken-down car to the office building, but I thought that was more like an hour or a bit more, and it did nearly kill her.

 

[danb35]

She was in her car, protected in the same way they all are while in a vehicle or in a building

"in a vehicle" is not the same as "in a building." Buildings (of the sort we've been dealing with, i.e., "not warehouses") are generally pretty well sealed--they aren't going to hold any kind of pressure, but very little air is going to migrate in or out if the doors and windows are closed. This is required by modern building codes for the sake of energy efficiency. By contrast, vehicles are by default vented to the outside. If you set the A/C to recirculate, that will disable most of that, but I'd expect it's still much less well-sealed than an average building built within the past 20 years.

Was she though?

I'll grant "about an hour" rather than "hours" (because I don't remember that much detail from back at the beginning), but I don't think it really changes the comparison. We're dealing with a substance that completely disables an automotive engine in a matter of minutes (apparently, from what Eve has said, due to electronic damage--which makes one think they should look for an old diesel truck). Automotive electronics are generally potted (or conformal coated), sealed, and otherwise pretty well isolated from the environment. The fog damages something electronic* to the point where the car won't run, and does it in a matter of minutes. Laura spends an extended amount of time out in it, being physically active (and therefore breathing in lots of it, with deep breaths), and is mostly recovered in a few days, without any medical attention. She has no permanent skin damage (we see plenty of her skin to be sure, though I suppose that isn't the focus of those scenes), her vision is grossly normal (though I suppose MC may doubt that), and while she may have suffered some long-term respiratory damage, she's able to process plenty of O2 on normal room (or outdoor) air to be physically active for hours.

Whether she was out in it for one hour or four, I maintain that the "corrosive" (if that's what's happening) effect on the car is somehow orders of magnitude greater than it is on Laura (and, for that matter, the rest of our cast).

* My bet would be the Mass Airflow sensor, since that is exposed to ambient air and is pretty important to the engine's operation.

 

[Anteron]

ACs would likely stop if it's bad enough to wreck a car engine like that. There's a difference between "badly polluted" and whatever THIS is...

 

[Ottoeight]

There are no such things as 'witches', 'burned ones', 'grendels' and fogs like that, therefore I can't see why you keep busting our/your/verybody's balls with such arguments.

If the story were consistent, no main character would have survived as human being after a few days. They would have turned into those monsters.

So, suspension of disbelief for us to enjoy the story is necessary.

 

[erkper]

"in a vehicle" is not the same as "in a building."
...
Whether she was out in it for one hour or four, I maintain that the "corrosive" (if that's what's happening) effect on the car is somehow orders of magnitude greater than it is on Laura (and, for that matter, the rest of our cast).

It has been clearly established that in the world of TOXICITY, "in a vehicle" and "in a building" provide EXACTLY the same protection from the fog. Would it be the same in the real world we live in? No, but neither would a thousand other things that are happening in this story. It's a work of fiction, and as Ottoeight said, some suspension of disbelief is required.

Fairly sure I never disputed that the effect on cars (and certain other technologies, such as means of long-range communication) is greater than that on MC and his girls.

 

[bfc233]

an average building built within the past 20 years.

I take it you haven't been in that industry. Because the vast majority of existing houses is from before that.

any communications

Finally an explanation why at least a third of the drama happens.

Yeah, I agree with your spoiler, probably would have been better if it happened after they were done.

That's decidedly not how these things work. They always come out of nowhere, never when it makes sense.
And if anything all the criticisms are pointing more towards the fact that our MC is getting very used to numbing himself out of the terror whenever necessary. Which kind of goes with the mental state we've observed pre incident: numbed and depressive but silently functioning where the pain has become just another part of day to day existence, unresolved like a calcified thorn that was never fully removed.

It's actually impressive how much of a polar opposite MC is from the one in Now and Then in this regard and Eve points that out wonderfully in this chapter.

WHAT IN OBLIVION IS THAT???

George.

 

[Meiri]

That's decidedly not how these things work. They always come out of nowhere, never when it makes sense.
And if anything all the criticisms are pointing more towards the fact that our MC is getting very used to numbing himself out of the terror whenever necessary. Which kind of goes with the mental state we've observed pre incident: numbed and depressive but silently functioning where the pain has become just another part of day to day existence, unresolved like a calcified thorn that was never fully removed.

George.

If they are trying to show this as the MC slowly becoming depressive and numbed, it would certainly also help to explain some of his previous attitudes.

I do hope if this is the case that they will elaborate his mental state more when these recurring visions are explained.

 

[danb35]

I take it you haven't been in that industry. Because the vast majority of existing houses is from before that.

I haven't, but I have eyes. And the places in this game where our cast hang out are generally newer construction (if the commercial buildings/college aren't new, they're updated), which is consistent with what we've been told of the area: they've been building like crazy, right into a bust.

Finally an explanation why at least a third of the drama happens.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here--near-complete lack of communications (with the exception of occasionally receiving broadcast media) has been well-established since the first couple of days of the game. If that weren't the case, there really is no story (or at least, a very different story)--call the authorities, get rescued.

Why are there no comms? That goes back to "what is the fog?"

Edit: thinking more about this, you probably meant that lack of interpersonal communication is responsible for much of the drama we've seen, and I missed the joke--and in so doing, I guess I illustrated the point.

It has been clearly established that in the world of TOXICITY, "in a vehicle" and "in a building" provide EXACTLY the same protection from the fog.

We've seen little enough time with our cast in vehicles that I don't think this can be considered "clearly established." They've spent weeks in various buildings; they've spent minutes in vehicles out in the fog. We don't see any evidence of their having trouble with the fog inside the vehicles, so that's good. Some protection? Of course--that's all we see so far, and all we need to see. "Exactly the same"? That could be the case, but it hasn't been hinted at, much less "clearly established." If they can come up with a way to keep a vehicle running for hours on end in this stuff, then we'll need to address the question, but that isn't yet the case.

Ottoeight said, some suspension of disbelief is required.

Suspension of disbelief is well and good, but the more of it a story requires, the harder it is to get into the story. One of the key parts of this story is a fog that, in many ways, doesn't really behave like any known physical substance, so that naturally raises the question of "what is it?" It's a pretty common question, even in the time I've been following this thread, with many people reaching the conclusion that, if it doesn't behave like any known physical substance, it must be supernatural in origin. I've already said that's my (current) conclusion, and I'm fine with it.

Fairly sure I never disputed that the effect on cars (and certain other technologies, such as means of long-range communication) is greater than that on MC and his girls.

So we agree that the fog isn't acting like a "natural" corrosive substance.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

I think eve wanted to believe it would work above all else, it was basically her only hope and the reason she was surviving was to get the car up and running.

Seems possible that Laura's breakdown after the SUV did not save the 4 of them might be foreshadowing a much more dangerous bout of irrationality from Eve now that she has just experienced the same disappointment/loss of hope. If a survivalist with better gear and weapon goes nutty things could get very, very bad. Maybe during a confrontation the main group let's her be taken as a distraction so they can escape Grendel.

im on ch 7 atm but dont this city have landline phones that they can use ??

Dev(s) probably under 30yo and just has no idea what a landline is.

Just consider the fog supernatural, and one of its effects is to disrupt communications--any communications.

A communications disruption can mean only one thing. Invasion.

Wait...is this an alien invasion story? Will the game get abandoned when Disney/Lucasfilm sues for IP infringement ??

The biggest problem with them is that the dev seems to completely misunderstand how they work.* Residential central A/C in the SE US (where we're set) doesn't draw in air from outside; it recirculates the air in the house.

I think you are the one who misunderstands how they work. 99% sure the Dev specifically says at the very beginning that recirc is the main function but that over time some air will be drawn in and it will slowly build up. Which is exactly how it works IRL.

Your assumption that recirc is 100% self-contained would only be realistic if the story were taking place on the ISS or survival bunkers where everything is hermetically sealed (with new O2 is pumped in & CO2 filtered out). Buildings are not air-tight...which is good because if no outside air mixed in we would all suffocate eventually if we stayed indoors for a few days with the AC on.

Spoiler: the dev(s) have it right

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[erkper]

So we agree that the fog isn't acting like a "natural" corrosive substance.

I'm not sure there's one person on here arguing this IS a "natural" corrosive substance. If we agree that the fog isn't acting like a "natural" substance, why do you insist on comparing it to one and decrying how things aren't the way they would be if it was?

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

I'm not sure there's one person on here arguing this IS a "natural" corrosive substance. If we agree that the fog isn't acting like a "natural" substance, why do you insist on comparing it to one and decrying how things aren't the way they would be if it was?

Not going to bother going back and reading what sounds like a pointless argument, but as someone with a background in science/biology I have read nothing that indicates the substance must be non-natural in origin or function. If anything the only information we have been given points to it being explicitly natural - the whole thing starting with mist suddenly erupting out of the ground according to Eve (like many sci-fi stories about aggressive fungal organisms decades before TLOU).

Anyone arguing that corrosive agents can only work one way probably doesn't know much chemistry (e.g., that alkalinity is just as corrosive as acidity) or biology (the range of odd and unique corrosives produced by organisms is vast).

Not saying any player can't believe whatever they want - that is part of the fun of working through new stories - but nobody should be insisting that anyone's guesses are more or less "right" than theirs when nobody outside of the devs know anything for sure at this point. And for all we know there may still be some internal discussion going on with them about how all of this will be explained in the end.

 

[danb35]

Buildings are not air-tight.

No, but they're close enough for purposes of this story. But they (specifically, houses with modern central A/C systems; I'm not making dogmatic claims with respect to the businesses) don't become any less so because the A/C is running. Air entering and exiting the house is going to be because of leaks in the house, people opening doors, etc.; not from the A/C.

decrying

I'm not "decrying" anything about the fog. I'm observing that it isn't acting like any natural substance we (or at least I) know of, and concluding from that that it's supernatural in origin--the point of the comparison is to explain the conclusion. I've said this at least three times today. What makes you think I'm complaining about the fact that it doesn't act like any known natural substance, when I've said repeatedly, today, that I'm OK with its being supernatural?

The conversation (this time around) started with this observation/question:

this toxic air seems to have magical properties or is there some real world equivalent that does the same as in the game

...to which I responded that yes, it does seem to have magical (or supernatural) properties, and no, there's no real-world equivalent AFAIK.

The A/C thing is a "complaint," in that I think the dev has this wrong. And like the "timing chains" in MC's '69 Charger in N&T, I'm going to accept that it just needs to work this way for the sake of the story and move on--it's a technical detail that's incorrect, but that's just the way things work here. That the fog doesn't behave naturally isn't something I've ever complained about.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

No, but they're close enough for purposes of this story. But they (specifically, houses with modern central A/C systems; I'm not making dogmatic claims with respect to the businesses) don't become any less so because the A/C is running. Air entering and exiting the house is going to be because of leaks in the house, people opening doors, etc.; not from the A/C.
...
The A/C thing is a "complaint," in that I think the dev has this wrong.

AC fans create positive pressure in the direction air is pushed out of the ducts into living areas. Therefore gaps (doors/windows) in the direction of airflow will have air pushed out of them while outside air will be drawn in from gaps behind the inflow because of negative pressure. The effect is not large but cumulatively problematic if there is a toxin in the outside air. Turning the AC off does not magically seal the gaps either, but it would stop the forced uneven air pressure from making the effects rapidy much worse. Agree to disagree, but I do not think the dev has it wrong at all.