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VN Ren'Py Turning the Page [v0.31.0] [Azienda]

3.90 star(s) 81 Votes
Discussion Reviews (81)
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GreenBlue

Newbie
Jun 8, 2018
27
44
JevilVerum said:
You're missing something. Search on the internet and you'll find the various definitions. It's one thing to express your opinion, but constructive criticism should tend toward objectivity, yes. Because the purpose is to improve something, and improving can't be subjective since what is an improvement for one may be a downgrade for another. Improvement is not subjective.
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Define what is "objective" and "subjective". From you, your definition. I don't want to google it and misrepresent your opinions. And we will work with that. I'll start.
Subjective and objective means shit to me. I use these words only because people like you think that objectivity exist. It doesn't. They have little meaning to me. Subjectivity is less info. Objectivity is more info. That's the easiest way for me to conform to your belief that it exists.

And lets be serious, you want me to use objectivity to critique a piece of art as Turning the Page by Azienda? Art is the definition and incarnation of subjectivity and feelings. How can i not talk how I feel about it?
 
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JevilVerum

JevilVerum

Member
Mar 4, 2020
105
260
GreenBlue said:
Define what is "objective" and "subjective". From you, your definition. I don't want to google it and misrepresent your opinions. And we will work with that. I'll start.
Subjective and objective means shit to me. I use these words only because people like you think that objectivity exist. It doesn't. They have little meaning to me. Subjectivity is less info. Objectivity is more info. That's the easiest way for me to conform to your belief that it exists.

And lets be serious, you want me to use objectivity to critique a piece of art as Turning the Page by Azienda? Art is the definition and incarnation of subjectivity and feelings. How can i not talk how I feel about it?
Click to expand...
The problem with your message was calling it constructive criticism. That's what I replied to in my post. Having an opinion is obviously fine and I think every dev likes to read both negative and positive criticisms.

Also yes, total objectivity doesn't exist, there will always be a part of subjectivity, we are not machines, but when criticizing a writer or artist it's not easy to define something as constructive criticism. Imagine if someone says that they'd prefer Sophie with bigger breasts, writing all they think about it and then saying that's constructive criticism. You get my point?

If they put it as a personal opinion or taste is one thing, but make it pass like constructive criticism would be wrong.
 
G

gedads

Member
Nov 10, 2021
114
155
"Define what is "objective" and "subjective". For you, your definition. I don't want to google it and misrepresent your opinions. And we will work with that. I'll start.
Subjective and objective means shit to me. I use these words only because people like you think that objectivity exist. It doesn't. They have little meaning to me. Subjectivity is less info. Objectivity is more info. That's the easiest way for me to conform to your belief that it exists. "

You're subjectively giving the status of art to an objectively really common porn game copy pasting every "cliché" that genre can offer...

it's a concept, it's unreachable for humans, in my country judges are receiving formation to remain objective yet justice tends to punish harder ugly people, give lighter sentences to women even lighter if they're good looking. here the criteria is beauty which is often used to define objectivity, people with faces and body having some ratio, golden numbers are supposed to be considered objectively beautiful in all location and in all time. To me, Subjectivity is just you giving an opinion based on what you feel and objectivity means just taking things for facts, no judgment no personal feelings. Knowledge or information has nothing to do with it.

Pure objectivity would be to replace judges by IA and governments as well.
 
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G

GreenBlue

Newbie
Jun 8, 2018
27
44
JevilVerum said:
The problem with your message was calling it constructive criticism. That's what I replied to in my post. Having an opinion is obviously fine and I think every dev likes to read both negative and positive criticisms.

Also yes, total objectivity doesn't exist, there will always be a part of subjectivity, we are not machines, but when criticizing a writer or artist it's not easy to define something as constructive criticism. Imagine if someone says that they'd prefer Sophie with bigger breasts, writing all they think about it and then saying that's constructive criticism. You get my point?

If they put it as a personal opinion or taste is one thing, but make it pass like constructive criticism would be wrong.
Click to expand...
Define "constructive criticism" please then? No trolling here. Just trying to understand you. And what constructive means to you. Because from your comments if feels like NO people can achieve that.

" If they put it as a personal opinion or taste is one thing, but make it pass like constructive criticism would be wrong."
No it wouldn't, because i said it is from my intuition and personal feelings. That's constructive to some level.
1. I had a feeling.
2. I observe where what when and why I had it.
3. I wrote a constructive critique "where what when and why".
How can this not be constructive?? What do you want me to do just write "tis game shat, dont wais time". Is this comment constructive? or mine?
 
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G

GreenBlue

Newbie
Jun 8, 2018
27
44
gedads said:
"Define what is "objective" and "subjective". For you, your definition. I don't want to google it and misrepresent your opinions. And we will work with that. I'll start.
Subjective and objective means shit to me. I use these words only because people like you think that objectivity exist. It doesn't. They have little meaning to me. Subjectivity is less info. Objectivity is more info. That's the easiest way for me to conform to your belief that it exists. "

You're subjectively giving the status of art to an objectively really common porn game copy pasting every "cliché" that genre can offer...

it's a concept, it's unreachable for humans, in my country judges are receiving formation to remain objective yet justice tends to punish harder ugly people, give lighter sentences to women even lighter if they're good looking. here the criteria is beauty which is often used to define objectivity, people with faces and body having some ratio, golden numbers are supposed to be considered objectively beautiful in all location and in all time. To me, Subjectivity is just you giving an opinion based on what you feel and objectivity means just taking things for facts, no judgment no personal feelings. Knowledge or information has nothing to do with it.

Pure objectivity would be to replace judges by IA and governments as well.
Click to expand...
Fuck I didn't want to get in an argument about objectivity and subjectivity. It's the same thing as arguing with religious people about soul. Or atheist about consciousness.
I just want to talk about PORN!! whats your fav game? :)
 
JevilVerum

JevilVerum

Member
Mar 4, 2020
105
260
GreenBlue said:
Define "constructive criticism" please then? No trolling here. Just trying to understand you. And what constructive means to you. Because from your comments if feels like NO people can achieve that.

" If they put it as a personal opinion or taste is one thing, but make it pass like constructive criticism would be wrong."
No it wouldn't, because i said it is from my intuition and personal feelings. That's constructive to some level.
1. I had a feeling.
2. I observe where what when and why I had it.
3. I wrote a constructive critique "where what when and why".
How can this not be constructive?? What do you want me to do just write "tis game shat, dont wais time". Is this comment constructive? or mine?
Click to expand...
Hey, I already tried to explain my point. If it didn't get through it's possible I can't communicate well enough. I said that your criticism was too personal to be called constructive. Just that. The more something is personal, the less it's constructive when talking about drawings or writing. I can't explain it in another way other than this.
 
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G

GreenBlue

Newbie
Jun 8, 2018
27
44
JevilVerum said:
Hey, I already tried to explain my point. If it didn't get through it's possible I can't communicate well enough. I said that your criticism was too personal to be called constructive. Just that. The more something is personal, the less it's constructive when talking about drawings or writing. I can't explain it in another way other than this.
Click to expand...
Take the L and move of then. Because how personal a piece of art is for me, you and audience is is important to the artist, for monetary or fulfillment and even happiness. Again I am being constructive by being sincere where how when and why I feel about it. And it being personal doesn't invalidate it not being CONSTRUCTIVE critique.

Again we are in the end talking about ART.
 
JevilVerum

JevilVerum

Member
Mar 4, 2020
105
260
GreenBlue said:
Take the L and move of then. Because how personal a piece of art is for me, you and audience is is important to the artist, for monetary or fulfillment and even happiness. Again I am being constructive by being sincere where how when and why I feel about it. And it being personal doesn't invalidate it not being CONSTRUCTIVE critique.

Again we are in the end talking about ART.
Click to expand...
I have no L to take, I'm just stopping because no one cares about this, because I already explained and you don't seem to get what I mean, and because this is not worth it any more time. But hey, if believing you won something in this discussion will help you sleep better, please go ahead.
 
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kaceylove

kaceylove

Newbie
Apr 1, 2021
40
270
Enjoying this one :)

Does the Felix decision to either delete or ignore the video folder makes much of a difference to the rest of the story?
 
IMMORTALCS26

IMMORTALCS26

Member
Aug 3, 2017
102
71
kaceylove said:
Enjoying this one :)

Does the Felix decision to either delete or ignore the video folder makes much of a difference to the rest of the story?
Click to expand...
So far with how the game has developed I don't think it has mattered much ..... it might make a difference later on when things start branching out more into many paths.
 
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3.90 star(s) 81 Votes