Underrated Devs

[HopesGaming]

its always people taste anyway.

some may find a game overrated, some may consider it not popular enougth.


you just have to make a poll... with various game with , let say, 200$/month in patreon as the max limit possible for participate in the poll.

shit tons of peoples will mention instantly the most closest game from theses 200$ limit. whatever they are good or not, whatever they are actual patrons of it or not.

its overrated all the time, people goes simple.... if it have lots of support = its great game. if it have low support = shit game.
wich is a wrong way to see things. some games have low support and are very gem. some otehrs have soo much support that you ask yourself "why did people support that ?"

its basically something that cant have standard answer. and they are no way to "counter" this. it is what it is.
i m patrons of what i like, some cool stuff, some shit stuff... i dont care. i usually rate my opinion on the game itself and the dev motivation to work on it, and the way he act/react with community.

but tssk.. whatever. if i would put out my list of my real favorites games around... i m pretty sure it would have 0.00000006% of the whole f95 community that would agree with me on the list XD. i usually dont like big games, such as WVM , deluca family and else.
i prefer small shitty games and devs, who really need support imho and would probably never seen the sun because they are burried instantly by theses big games and their hype

A game doing well earning wise is not an automatic 'overhyped/overrated' game.
The way you see it as; shit tons of peoples will mention instantly the most closest game from theses 200$ limit. whatever they are good or not, whatever they are actual patrons of it or not.

But maybe you should try to ask yourself- how did they get above 200, to begin with? Answer is simple; because they're liked by many. And hence, of course, the popular choice would always go to those.

A game is not popular because it earns a lot. A game earns a lot because it is popular.

And the idea that smaller 'gems' kind of games are being buried by the big games and their hype is just pure bullshit (excuse my language).
It is an excuse devs tend to use to divert any fails away from themselves and unto easy targets- those that do well.

And the proof is out there so it's not even something that can be discussed. So many new games that have arrived and they all surpass games that was known and called 'big games with hype'.
There are many games that have surpassed my own. Many new games. And I can only congratulate them on their quality game. In fact, there have even been games I gave shoutouts to that are now doing the same as myself (or better). And for those, I am even happier.

Of course, there are games out there that need a bit more recognition and that is why devs that do a bit better try to do as many shoutouts as they can.
But if it never takes off, it is foolish to only blame it on 'being overlooked due to the overhyped games'.
Simple a fallacy.

 

[Avaron1974]

I've seen new games pop up and gain instant traction because they gave players what they wanted. I've seen games that appear or have been around for a while not doing so well because what's there isn't for everyone or, to put it bluntly, is utter dog shit.

No dev is held back by bigger games, if what they have is worth peoples money then they will get it.

Games development isn't like a job, you don't get paid for effort. You get paid if that effort translates into something other people enjoy.

It doesn't matter if a developer slaved day and night for 6 months if they release complete trash or a niche game.

The only exception to that rule is incest. I've seen shitty generic incest games make money. Just rip off Big Brother and watch money roll in.

 

[macadam]

A game doing well earning wise is not an automatic 'overhyped/overrated' game.
The way you see it as; shit tons of peoples will mention instantly the most closest game from theses 200$ limit. whatever they are good or not, whatever they are actual patrons of it or not.

But maybe you should try to ask yourself- how did they get above 200, to begin with? Answer is simple; because they're liked by many. And hence, of course, the popular choice would always go to those.

A game is not popular because it earns a lot. A game earns a lot because it is popular.

And the idea that smaller 'gems' kind of games are being buried by the big games and their hype is just pure bullshit (excuse my language).
It is an excuse devs tend to use to divert any fails away from themselves and unto easy targets- those that do well.

And the proof is out there so it's not even something that can be discussed. So many new games that have arrived and they all surpass games that was known and called 'big games with hype'.
There are many games that have surpassed my own. Many new games. And I can only congratulate them on their quality game. In fact, there have even been games I gave shoutouts to that are now doing the same as myself (or better). And for those, I am even happier.

Of course, there are games out there that need a bit more recognition and that is why devs that do a bit better try to do as many shoutouts as they can.
But if it never takes off, it is foolish to only blame it on 'being overlooked due to the overhyped games'.
Simple a fallacy.

oh really ?

so how do you explain the insta reaction in some games that are new, small and actually very nicely done and interrestig, being instantly smashed by the classic "this is a rip off of this big game" ?

because 1 char look similar, the small game is instantly compared to the big one and did this boost it up ? no, at contrary, it boost it down by peoples screaming of rip off.

what will happen if a game pop out with a char that is similar to one of your own game most popular char ? do you think peoples will say : "oh ! i recognize this char ! this game gonna be great !"

no, they dont. its have been prooved forever now.

sure some peoples clearly use specific copy of char to boost their game. but it happen also that a char seems similar to another one from a popular game, and the reaction is the same as if that new game would have stolen it from the big game.

they are no fight, no competition. you dont get money because its popular or because its good. you get money because you manage to take a spot in light.

when you start creating a small game, you dont get popular, even if you game is great at excellent , you dont get tons of patrons instantly. not todays at least. that was valable and correct a few years ago, but not todays anymore.
too many games, and too many "similarities" between games.

now when a new game pop up, 99% of peoples instantly compare it with another over populated game they know, without even giving a try at it to see if its similar or not.

i m saying bullshit ? sure, as always. i dont even know why i wasting my time to explain anything....

as always, if i was a 5K patrons and earned 10K/months with my game, i bet that my word would be rules here.
and dont tell me its not right and its bullshit. we saw that way too much already.

as long you aint one of the best, its shut the fuck up your opinion doesnt care at all.

that's how it work. oh look ! a new game from "HopesGaming" ?? do i m free to say its a bad game ? no, i m not, because if i say that i will instantly be shut down by all your supporters. do it ? do the challenge to see by yourself ! create a shitty small game that nobody want... just for the fun of it. would you risk it ? you wont lose anything anyway, and you will notice that instantly everybody gonna consider it as "great and nice and fun"... without even playing it. just because its "hopesgaming" game.
oh i dare you to do it. just to proove if i m right or not XD

once reputation is on, the big games litteraly smash the small games. todays its impossible to be big fast like a few years ago. i saw some very nice games getting nothing, nothing at all, when in my opinion they deserve something. But peoples dont care, because "this is like this big game..." and blablabla

but whatever, i m out. whatever i say, nobody care anyway. unless its just for saying that i am wrong and i say bullshit. (you free to say bullshit, i got like 10 devs telling me that i m saying bullshit. i m used to it )
i take no offense on anything, and i hope you too, because i didnt wanted to be offensive against you. just explaining thing the best i can with bad english.

i m out ! (forever)

 

[Rythan25]

Look at all the Big Brother clones...

At one point that game was the highest grossing game on Patreon (before Dark Cookie and Summertime Saga took off) earning around 12.5k... now look at all its clones falling to the wayside and being abandoned (Ways of Life, Big Brother Another Story, Big Brother Untold Stories, House of Pleasure, Lisa's Story, Renpy Remake, etc), not one of them has taken off, so no people saying "shitty incest games always do good" are talking out of their asses...

Now look at relatively newcomer WVM, its a "shitty incest story" as some call it, though the incest hasnt started yet, but it gave people what they want !! Harem, a loving girlfriend that lets the MC fuck anything that moves, interesting and diverse girls, plenty of sex, etc... and it took right the fuck off... I think its around 6k at the moment ? its inching closer to AWAM in a sliver of time...

As Avaron said it not so nice terms... give people what they want and do right by them, and they will support you... be a shitty dev that likes to milk, go on hiatus, be pretentious and you'll fail... also the devs that make a niche game with fetishes that only they and a fraction of people enjoy, they should expect the game to not be huge regardless of quality.

I mean people can make MuseX or Philly level renders in a game about scat (where they smear it on and eat it), and release monthly schedules, and it would still get murdered "money-wise" even by a crappy game about slave management with stolen hentai pics...

 

[Rythan25]

oh really ?

so how do you explain the insta reaction in some games that are new, small and actually very nicely done and interrestig, being instantly smashed by the classic "this is a rip off of this big game" ?

because 1 char look similar, the small game is instantly compared to the big one and did this boost it up ? no, at contrary, it boost it down by peoples screaming of rip off.

what will happen if a game pop out with a char that is similar to one of your own game most popular char ? do you think peoples will say : "oh ! i recognize this char ! this game gonna be great !"

no, they dont. its have been prooved forever now.

sure some peoples clearly use specific copy of char to boost their game. but it happen also that a char seems similar to another one from a popular game, and the reaction is the same as if that new game would have stolen it from the big game.

they are no fight, no competition. you dont get money because its popular or because its good. you get money because you manage to take a spot in light.

when you start creating a small game, you dont get popular, even if you game is great at excellent , you dont get tons of patrons instantly. not todays at least. that was valable and correct a few years ago, but not todays anymore.
too many games, and too many "similarities" between games.

now when a new game pop up, 99% of peoples instantly compare it with another over populated game they know, without even giving a try at it to see if its similar or not.

i m saying bullshit ? sure, as always. i dont even know why i wasting my time to explain anything....

as always, if i was a 5K patrons and earned 10K/months with my game, i bet that my word would be rules here.
and dont tell me its not right and its bullshit. we saw that way too much already.

as long you aint one of the best, its shut the fuck up your opinion doesnt care at all.

that's how it work. oh look ! a new game from "HopesGaming" ?? do i m free to say its a bad game ? no, i m not, because if i say that i will instantly be shut down by all your supporters. do it ? do the challenge to see by yourself ! create a shitty small game that nobody want... just for the fun of it. would you risk it ? you wont lose anything anyway, and you will notice that instantly everybody gonna consider it as "great and nice and fun"... without even playing it. just because its "hopesgaming" game.
oh i dare you to do it. just to proove if i m right or not XD

once reputation is on, the big games litteraly smash the small games. todays its impossible to be big fast like a few years ago. i saw some very nice games getting nothing, nothing at all, when in my opinion they deserve something. But peoples dont care, because "this is like this big game..." and blablabla

but whatever, i m out. whatever i say, nobody care anyway. unless its just for saying that i am wrong and i say bullshit. (you free to say bullshit, i got like 10 devs telling me that i m saying bullshit. i m used to it )
i take no offense on anything, and i hope you too, because i didnt wanted to be offensive against you. just explaining thing the best i can with bad english.

i m out ! (forever)

Also people hate seeing characters they are attached to in a game where the new dev is using said character in a completely polarizing scenario...

In your example of Hope's game... if I saw someone come out with a "above average" MAFIA game and used Luna's model as the MC, I would still be interested since Hope's made Luna awesome !! Will I compare the new game to "Deluca Family" ? OF COURSE"... but not in a "go kill yourself new dev, stop stealing stuff"...I would treat it as an elseworld tale as long as the new dev respects Luna's character to some degree... thats the right way to do it !!

The wrong way to do it, is like that one dev that tried to copy the "Linda" model from Milfy City, and made her a complete submissive cumbucket that enjoys being BDSM to death... of course that guy got backlash over that... Linda is basically "THE MOM" for most incest fans... seeing her being fucked in a different game by generic "son's bully" who also BDSM'd her was infuriating to most people.

 

[HopesGaming]

so how do you explain the insta reaction in some games that are new, small and actually very nicely done and interrestig, being instantly smashed by the classic "this is a rip off of this big game" ?

because 1 char look similar, the small game is instantly compared to the big one and did this boost it up ? no, at contrary, it boost it down by peoples screaming of rip off.

what will happen if a game pop out with a char that is similar to one of your own game most popular char ? do you think peoples will say : "oh ! i recognize this char ! this game gonna be great !"

no, they dont. its have been prooved forever now.

Of course, people will not look too kindly at people that steal other devs characters. I don't quite get that?
If the characters just look a bit similar then most people will not mind. I have seen some games where the characters look like mine. Even some players of mine who wrote in their thread that it did. And it did not damage the game, the opposite in fact. Note I am not talking about pre-made characters but unique characters that have been morphed or any other kind of customization.

you dont get money because its popular or because its good. you get money because you manage to take a spot in light.

That's comment is so filled with malice.
You're basically saying that the games that the top games are only good because they got lucky and not by effort.
A good game will do well. A bad game won.t
Enough with the excuses.
I wish my game had the same success as some of the really top dogs. But I won't blame them. I won't blame anyone. I will just better myself.

when you start creating a small game, you dont get popular, even if you game is great at excellent , you dont get tons of patrons instantly. not todays at least. that was valable and correct a few years ago, but not todays anymore.
too many games, and too many "similarities" between games.

now when a new game pop up, 99% of peoples instantly compare it with another over populated game they know, without even giving a try at it to see if its similar or not.

That is a lie. WVM is a rather new game and that one exploded in patrons. And no doubt some other new games that get off since the start. I agree that it is way harder than it was during the 'golden age' but it is not impossible and not unheard of to happen today.

as always, if i was a 5K patrons and earned 10K/months with my game, i bet that my word would be rules here.
and dont tell me its not right and its bullshit. we saw that way too much already.

as long you aint one of the best, its shut the fuck up your opinion doesnt care at all.

I don't get that? Why would that matter? With what I have seen in this forum- people judge people by their comment and not by their Patreon amount.
I don't agree with this statement at all. You're underestimating the people. They're not mindless sheep. (In fact they sometimes way too quick to go in attack mode. No matter who it is.)

that's how it work. oh look ! a new game from "HopesGaming" ?? do i m free to say its a bad game ? no, i m not, because if i say that i will instantly be shut down by all your supporters. do it ? do the challenge to see by yourself ! create a shitty small game that nobody want... just for the fun of it. would you risk it ? you wont lose anything anyway, and you will notice that instantly everybody gonna consider it as "great and nice and fun"... without even playing it. just because its "hopesgaming" game.
oh i dare you to do it. just to proove if i m right or not XD

Well, yes. Reputation is everything in the entertainment market. But I was unknown when I released my game. And it was during the time the big games were at their best (incest times). Yet, my game still did reasonably well. Same with many other non-reputable devs. You don't get reputable by simply existing. You have to be an unknown first.
But, even if a reputable name gives you a head start in your future game. If the quality is bad. The game will lose patrons and be forgotten real quick. Glamour did not do as well as big brother and the patron decreased due to that.
So again, wrong statement.

but whatever, i m out. whatever i say, nobody care anyway. unless its just for saying that i am wrong and i say bullshit. (you free to say bullshit, i got like 10 devs telling me that i m saying bullshit. i m used to it )
i take no offense on anything, and i hope you too, because i didnt wanted to be offensive against you. just explaining thing the best i can with bad english.

i m out ! (forever)

Lastly,
Much of what you say is opinion based yet you speak it like it's fact. (not a good game, excellent game, etc.)
I think this is where the problems stem at. You already determined what is good and bad.

That bullshit was more for lack of better words. But I just meant that I heavily disagreed.
I've not taken any offense and just sharing my thoughts. I could be wrong of course.

 

[macadam]

Of course, people will not look too kindly at people that steal other devs characters. I don't quite get that?
If the characters just look a bit similar then most people will not mind. I have seen some games where the characters look like mine. Even some players of mine who wrote in their thread that it did. And it did not damage the game, the opposite in fact. Note I am not talking about pre-made characters but unique characters that have been morphed or any other kind of customization.



That's comment is so filled with malice.
You're basically saying that the games that the top games are only good because they got lucky and not by effort.
A good game will do well. A bad game won.t
Enough with the excuses.
I wish my game had the same success as some of the really top dogs. But I won't blame them. I won't blame anyone. I will just better myself.



That is a lie. WVM is a rather new game and that one exploded in patrons. And no doubt some other new games that get off since the start. I agree that it is way harder than it was during the 'golden age' but it is not impossible and not unheard of to happen today.



I don't get that? Why would that matter? With what I have seen in this forum- people judge people by their comment and not by their Patreon amount.
I don't agree with this statement at all. You're underestimating the people. They're not mindless sheep. (In fact they sometimes way too quick to go in attack mode. No matter who it is.)



Well, yes. Reputation is everything in the entertainment market. But I was unknown when I released my game. And it was during the time the big games were at their best (incest times). Yet, my game still did reasonably well. Same with many other non-reputable devs. You don't get reputable by simply existing. You have to be an unknown first.
But, even if a reputable name gives you a head start in your future game. If the quality is bad. The game will lose patrons and be forgotten real quick. Glamour did not do as well as big brother and the patron decreased due to that.
So again, wrong statement.



Lastly,
Much of what you say is opinion based yet you speak it like it's fact. (not a good game, excellent game, etc.)
I think this is where the problems stem at. You already determined what is good and bad.

That bullshit was more for lack of better words. But I just meant that I heavily disagreed.
I've not taken any offense and just sharing my thoughts. I could be wrong of course.

you clearly not understand what i tryed to explain in most of my points. but whatever , its not dramatic. i cant even explain better to be honest :/

i dont say peoples doesnt deserve what they work for, nor that some big dev work hard on their thing. i just say that how did most dev became popular ? how many devs used others more popular devs to boost them up (cross promotion) ?
how many devs receive boost in general from the beginning ?

WVM as an exempl, aint a game that just get super popular by itself . let's be honest, many many peoples consider (for exempl) the story and MC of WVM as something pretty bad. nontheless it grow fast and nice. and this is mostly thanks to cooperation, cross promotion and else.

oh i m not idiot, i look.. i "spy"... i know how it work most of time XD.

you wont go far if you dont have a boost next to you.

i dont say that work all the time and its the only reason of popularity. just saying this heavily help to overrated and overhype a game.
and who ever work without that, will stand in shit for a loooooong time. soo again, this show a proof that big game influence ALOTS the small ones.

its sneaky.. its like politicians XD

 

[Avaron1974]

many many peoples consider (for exempl) the story and MC of WVM as something pretty bad.

No they don't.

The hell are you getting that from?

 

[macadam]

No they don't.

The hell are you getting that from?

and where are you getting the reverse from ? from F95 ? ... HAH !

 

[B-52reloaded]

I think BackHole from Denos City is way too underrated!

 

[Rythan25]

and where are you getting the reverse from ? from F95 ? ... HAH !

Are you actually joking right now ? the worst people say about WVM is that Jamie the main girlfriend sometimes has a duck face, and thats it... then you have the people that want shitty 1 girl per route type games crying that its an EXTREME harem...

The game from the first update was well received, the dev was here regularly tossing out ideas of what to expect... hell here on this forum and on his patreon you have people actually asking him to "slow down" instead of demanding more... they want him to go to monthly updates rather than tying to keep doing the weekly ones he has been doing.

 

[desmosome]

No they don't.

The hell are you getting that from?

I mean... I was on board on the first couple versions but the game is clearly not for everyone. Every update basically boils down to everyone hugging the MC and talking about how much they love each other and how great the MC is. It gets repetitive and nothing interesting really happens. None of the characters behave like normal people, so the game kind of feels like one giant circle jerk.

Really happy for Braindrop's success though. You could say its a game that indulges all the vanilla fantasies of a feel good harem and there wasn't really a game like that before. No mind control, no blackmail, no shady shit, just one infallible MC and how he makes the word better with his cock and logical basketball plays. There is only so much lovey dovey shit I can take though personally XD.

 

[SeventhVixen]

Virtue and Fortune as Machiavelo said. (very summarised: Skill/Talent, Luck, and Skill to make the most of that luck.)

Some additional points:
due to how f95 works, all games with weekly releases has x4 chances to getting popular compared to monthly releases for example, specially with the humonguous quantity of games out there. Visibility gives activity, relations player-game-dev, patrons. But grow is thanks to retention (the skill of the dev (as an abstract meter) to not lose all the patrons that came with an update go after a month). This is specially important for new devs to being able to gain traction faster.

The point that popularity attracts grows is no falacy (same as money brings money, many people wants to support the same popular games as his fellas, this is the real world after all, Nike will make more money than that eco-friendly handmake shoe maker, not necesarilly because quality or customer support, but by fame), but of course lots of devs has worked their way out during a lot of time and constant effort. At the same time I understand my patrons, that yell in the vacuum why is that my game doesn't have more support, but it is quite niche and never meant for traditional patreon release. My travel has been always towards the Steam release, but now with patreon just trying to service the most hours of gameplay by month of work as I can (Through I'm having a rough time with the computer and no money to fix it, but I'll sort it out)

Anyway, this was a positive post, don't fight guys

 

[cadwaladr]

The irony is that truly underrated devs won't even appear in this sort of thread.

Why? Because they're underrated!

 

[macadam]

Are you actually joking right now ? the worst people say about WVM is that Jamie the main girlfriend sometimes has a duck face, and thats it... then you have the people that want shitty 1 girl per route type games crying that its an EXTREME harem...

The game from the first update was well received, the dev was here regularly tossing out ideas of what to expect... hell here on this forum and on his patreon you have people actually asking him to "slow down" instead of demanding more... they want him to go to monthly updates rather than tying to keep doing the weekly ones he has been doing.

ba-dum-tiss

 

[macadam]

The irony is that truly underrated devs won't even appear in this sort of thread.

Why? Because they're underrated!

good then that mean i m not underrated

i know, i know... i m just ignored, its different

 

[dacris69]

sqwl
https://f95zone.to/threads/corporate-culture-v0-1-sqwl.45993/