Having said all that I'm going to end our debate now. If you'd like feel free to take the last word.
Don't mind if I do then, since I can only post each 24h~ I was kinda left out. And a shame really, since you didn't end it, you just conceded.
If we're going to flatly go by the best example of current content in game: matoko giving the mc a bj in the dream sequence was flat ntr.
Nope, that was netori, and this scene must be taken in context as well, I don't know about you but to me it became quite obvious it was a dream fairly soon, and although the plot kind of makes you feel for the little guy, it was misleading who the dream belonged to, in the end the guy got played by his insecurities but no actual relationships where afected, so the scene is netori at best.
Regarding what you say about the ntr tag, I wouldn't say it even requires a sense of intimacy or sorrow to be felt for the lad. Some people who read it solely identify with the bad guy.
The reader identifying with one character or other doesn't change what the autor intended with the story, tags are applied based on content, not the feelings of the people reading it.
I don't know why you've specifically argued this. If we're looking at the well defined tags already brought up by vndb, ntr only would require the person getting fucked is a potential love interest.
Is it well defined I wonder? omitting the flaw of relying on a single outside source, the site states:
"1. The heroine either must be romantically involved
with the protagonist
, a potential romance for him or of someone that the protagonist shares such a close relationship (sister, mother, osananajimi etc.) that jealousy is a factor. "
As per your source, the mc needs to be the "target" for it to be ntr, but your best example is that of a secundary character.
I mean, let's say I bring up a hentai to you. I say the mc in this story hates a girl so he leads her into a trap. Then he realizes he cares about the girl and tries to save her, but ends up getting beat the fuck out of and forced to watch her get raped. You're telling me you don't think that falls under the category of ntr?
I would say it to be totally ntr, but that's not quite what happens in this game is it?
The guy who bring up empathy was talking about Minami, since the MC didn't rescue her out of love, he just felt guilt or simpaty like many others would and that's it, even up to the current update she is still considered a convenience of some sentimental value more than anything by MC, and more to the point, he did in fact saved her.
a lot of fighting, it is netori if it is not forced, for it to be ntr it has to be forced, in case it is netori it would be better that it be under the cheating label since it is closer than ntr
Nope, both netori & ntr can be forced or voluntary, in fact they both refer to the same situation, the diference between the two is the point of view from wich the story is told so to speak, the first focus or sides with the one stealing, with the later focusing on the losing party.
There's something of a cheat sheet with the girls names and their general traits floating around somewhere in this thread, but the last time i went to look for it, it took me a while.
so aside from being lost with the girl names, can anyone pls tell me if it's close or still a long way ahead for the update to come up
You may be looking for one of my comments, I posted a reference sheet no too long ago.