- Apr 7, 2019
- 57
- 89
better to wait and see. game is dope and yes, it sucks that we have to wait for our spank material, but that is life.
Nothing the other poster has said has been done "rightfully".Im not here to complain about the development time of a project i dont pay for, just agreeing with someone who is rightfully pointing that what the devs pretend to be doing is a lie.
The "assumption" we are making is according to the defenition the devs give of debugging lol. All the things listed there are issues that are found and addressed with little effort in renpy, as i've said, this game is only a very few tiny steps above the most bare bones renpy default experience.Nothing the other poster has said has been done "rightfully".
His whole argument is a based on a bunch of unsubstantiated assumptions.
Neither he, nor you, have the first clue if what the dev says is a lie. You're both assuming that it is.
He has no evidence, or factual knowledge to support the claim.
Because the game has not been delivered as quickly as he would like, or thinks it should have been, the dev is instantly a liar and a crook.
If he is so convinced that the dev is a liar, there's a really simple solution.
This site has numerous games. Move on. Find something else that he actually enjoys, rather than wasting his own time here, on something he thinks is crooked.
Leave the game & the thread to the people who do enjoy it.
Posting an opinion of subjective bile is not productive.
The game is not going to suddenly turned up any quicker, because he claims the dev is milking.
It will be here when it's ready. Not before.
Everyone whinging just needs to stop behaving like such entitled brats.
No.The "assumption" we are making is according to the defenition the devs give of debugging lol.
That was the assumption.rightfully pointing that what the devs pretend to be doing is a lie.
That is another assumption.All the things listed there are issues that are found and addressed with little effort in renpy
This part is, again, just your opinion. Things are relative & subjective.as i've said, this game is only a very few tiny steps above the most bare bones renpy default experience.
Love how you defend by indirectly assuming that the devs are crazy stupid and incompetent for not figuring out to how work with renpy after 2+ years of game development with itThat is the assumption.
Little effort to who, you?
Well they are not you, are they?
You have absolutely zero idea of how much effort it requires from them.
This part is just your opinion. Things are relative & subjective.
Something that seems simple to Person A may seem overwhelmingly difficult to Person B.
Yeah i would also love to know why the devs havent tried to expand the team and hire someone to be in charge of the non creative work like coding.If you are an amazing, superstar debugger, maybe you should offer your services.
You have a person literally posting it in page 376.
Your analogy is lacking."Oh you didn't like the fact that the chief took an hour and a half to complete the meal he said he will complete in about 20 minutes? Unless you can cook that same meal yourself you cannot complain!!!1"
lmao
I'm not defending anything, except for common sense.Love how you defend by indirectly assuming that the devs are crazy stupid and incompetent for not figuring out to how work with renpy after 2+ years of game development with it. And im the one making baseless assumptions? I could literally pin point you a youtube tutorial on how to implement every single feature present in that game, as it is part of the most basic things you do with renpy. But you just dust if off with "but everything here is relative and your opinion!!" despite you presenting me an excuse that also is dubious and makes even less sense in these circumstances.
lol ok bro.. Everyone is an expert on the internet.I could literally pin point you a youtube tutorial on how to implement every single feature present in that game, as it is part of the most basic things you do with renpy.
Yeah you are not defending, just trying to counter argue with dumb use of "its all relative" lol.I'm not defending anything, except for common sense.
You make claims which you have no clue about the truth of.
That's the literal definition of an unsubstantiated assumption.
Why would i spend about 2-3 hours reinstalling renpy development kit and making a dummy game with the same architecture as this one just to prove you wrong? ANY person who has worked with renpy knows that the coding in there is part of the basic tutorial for a VN in renpy, go look up the videos and see it for yourself.You talk as if you're some sort of expert with Ren'Py, clearly you consider yourself a better, more competent developer than the people making this game.
Prove it, or it didn't happen.
Things are relative.Yeah you are not defending, just trying to counter argue with dumb use of "its all relative" lol.
Prove it.The claims we are making are centered around the very own words of the devs themselves.
Again talking as if you're a competent developer.Why would i spend about 2-3 hours reinstalling renpy development kit and making a dummy game with the same architecture as this one just to prove you wrong? ANY person who has worked with renpy knows that the coding in there is part of the basic tutorial for a VN in renpy, go look up the videos and see it for yourself.
show pov mneu bdoubt
show myrtle bsad msad hfneu1
myrtle "Will you do that?!"
show pov hfneu1 bsad mside hbneu1 at m_cright with moveinright:
xalign 0.4
show myrtle eclosed mwonder hfneu1 bsad xthand
show pov hfstill1
pov "Sure. I'll be careful."
Yeah except you are applying this on a person who has been working on this for 2 years doing exactly the same thing over and over again.Things are relative.
As I said, one person finding something easy does not mean that another person automatically will.
This is not an opinion, it's a fact.
I literally just can give you two videos each of a person teaching making a map game with choices and another of a person playing around with logic and event triggers on renpy. Renpy is a tool that is specifically made for this type of games if you think its dificult to develop these types of games with a map, choices and stats i invite you to look up what most the other devs are doing which is basically the same thing under different textures. The obvious hard part is making the artwork, writting and animations. Renpy and RPGM are the easiest tools to work by far. And im not going to personally make a dummy game of someone doing the exact same architecture when you have a video of someone doing the core code in 25 minutes i can just literally copy this, give different coordinates, different names and a different dialog.Again talking as if you're a competent developer.
Prove it.
Maybe start by proving that you know precisely what the architecture of this game is.
Instead of just coming across like you're talking out your ass with ego.
If you cannot prove it, quit with your unsubstantiated claims.
You're still assuming someone else's work speed, capability for a specific task & efficiency, regardless.Yeah except you are applying this on a person who has been working on this for 2 years doing exactly the same thing over and over again.
Which proves nothing, other than your simplistic lack of understanding.I literally just can give you two videos each of a person teaching making a map game with choices and another of a person playing around with logic and event triggers on renpy.
and 98 more bugs have been added to the list, during that time.So there has been actually more editing work than debugging.
I appreciate your effort in this reply.Two random lines of text you see on screen, with just two characters, equals to this in the scripts:
Misspell just one of those tiny little commands and you've got yourself a bug you won't notice until you play that scene - and only if you are fully focused, like most players will be while playing the game. That's two randomly chosen lines of dialogue of the thousands on each update (Myrtle's update, from which I've extracted that piece of code, contains roughly 3,000 dialogue lines). Now add logic bugs like characters showing at a certain time on a specific location that should change depending on what scenes have been already triggered, so you have to take into account every possible 'path' to properly code those encounters. Those situations just increase exponentially with every new update and quest, and they all should be tested and fixed when needed. Sure, WaL is not the most complex Ren'Py game ever but it's not barebone Ren'Py either.Python:show pov mneu bdoubt show myrtle bsad msad hfneu1 myrtle "Will you do that?!" show pov hfneu1 bsad mside hbneu1 at m_cright with moveinright: xalign 0.4 show myrtle eclosed mwonder hfneu1 bsad xthand show pov hfstill1 pov "Sure. I'll be careful."
Now, we are focusing on bugs. What about if we compare the number of 'edit' tasks instead and how they evolve during this polishing period? That is the real deal in terms of time investment since it involves redoing art (which is the most time-consuming task during the 'regular' development cycle). When the art was finally done (May 24th) edit tasks were at 327/344 and bugs were at 119/171.
View attachment 1909488
Today, edit tasks are at 436/447 and bugs are at 246/269. View attachment 1909489
So there has been actually more editing work than debugging.
I guess they could have released an 'alpha' update full of bugs and mismatching expressions shortly after completing the planned art tasks. Somehow, I guess those who complain about the excessive time between updates would have complained about the game being buggy or having less quality than before despite 'mWhAHahAha dEvS aRe gEtTiNg RiCh AnD sTeaLInG yOuR fUcKinG mOney yOu BuNcH oF PrIcKs'. Maybe some people would have appreciated that faster update, though, but it just wouldn't be the game so many people fell in love with.
The game is 100% free. Yet, devs have managed to make a living of it - because many people actually like enough the results of their work. Some people claim that being able to make a living from a lewd game leads devs to become lazy and 'milk' their supporters slowing down their work rate as subscriptions don't encourage devs to 'work harder'. However, their supporters on Patreon grow hugely every time they release an update, so according to rational logic, devs should be the most interested in releasing quicker updates as this would mean a bigger monthly income -plus, in Magicnuts' case, had they actually released the new update when they expected to do it, they wouldn't need to refund those who signed up in June hoping they were going to get a new update. So no, slowing down releases is not exactly beneficial as they could get even more profits by updating the game more often (unless, of course, we assume devs have found an optimal income level and they just don't feel the need to push it for more).
That said, I can honestly understand that criticism -the Patreon's model does have its shortcomings- but I won't ever share it: even if whiners are right and these devs are just slacking off and adding random numbers to their charts to make it seem they are working hard when they aren't, or if they are just dumb people who don't know how to debug a simple Ren'Py game, why is it 'bad' to release an update in 6, 7 or 9 months instead of 5? Why shouldn't they be able to work under lesser pressure thanks to people who enjoy what they are actually doing? Why couldn't they try to extend for some more time this nice situation? Don't we dream all of something like that? Is it just plain jealousy, then? Why do some people feel it's like a sin for the devs to take some days off (which these devs aren't taking, btw) and enjoy their leisure time outside of developing the game, when they can afford it? Just because you wanted the game to be out faster -so you can already start pressuring them for the next installment? If you don't like their 'work ethics' you are free to not support them. You are free to explain your reasons -your personal assumptions and beliefs. But laughing at those who either trust the devs or simply don't care and just want to show them some appreciation by throwing them a few bucks is just mean -why do some people feel the urge to tell other adult people how they should not spend their money?- and accusing any dev of ill-intentioned wrongdoings is something you just can't do unless you are living in their home and you can prove with proper facts that they are lying when they say they are actually working on their project.
Im not gonna take a full project done by someone else and spend my whole limited free time (because i work) looking at literall all lines and code to see if there is something wrong just to prove you that debugging in renpy isnt complicated. Its not even comparable to what devs are doing since they already know the stuff they've done previously is working as intended and know which stuff they've messed with when adding the new code. Go ahead and add me to your blocked list, i literally dont care who you areBacalu You're talking about code bugs. But:
How do you count bug tasks? The errors found while playing the currently under development content or things from previous releases that we want to fix/change before the next update. For example: missing hands or sprite elements, buttons that are misplaced or miss hover-idle states, events crashing with each other, sound effects over-lapping with environment music, characters in more than one place at the same time, quests not working well as a sandbox, etc.
So "bugs" can be code issues, missing/wrong images and sprites, sound issues (wrong sound/music, sounds being too loud/quiet/long/short), logical issues and a lot more.
I challenge you this: I will take a version of this game and put at least 10 bugs into it -- and not just coding bugs, but also image/sprite/sound/logical/etc ones. You'll then have 1 week to find and correct 10 of them. One week for 10 bugs! Are you up to it? And if you're as good as you claim to be (because every "noob" can professionally code Ren'Py after watching the YT tutorial!), you might even find all the bugs.
If you accept, I will need a few days to prepare a bugged version of this game.
But if you chicken out, you're just a troll and will end up on my ignore list right away.
I have to take it that you've never heard of Change or Release Management, never mind Configuration Management.Its not even comparable to what devs are doing since they already know the stuff they've done previously is working as intended and know which stuff they've messed with when adding the new code.
You've made 9 posts since joining, are they all so pretentious, accusatory & argumentative?Go ahead and add me to your blocked list, i literally dont care who you are
All my 9 posts are in this thread and have to do with this discussion. I dont know who you are calling pretentious and argumentative, you literally just assume the devs are dumb as hell and pretend that this game in terms of architecture is special when its the same as most renpy novels with choices done here.You've made 9 posts since joining, are they all so pretentious & argumentative?
Most of the ones I've seen from you here are.
I never once assumed anything of the sort.All my 9 posts are in this thread and have to do with this discussion. I dont know who you are calling pretentious and argumentative, you literally just assume the devs are dumb as hell and pretend that this game in terms of architecture is special when its the same as most renpy novels with choices done here.