Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[Bacalu]

The new update is out ??

Probably in 2 weeks or the by end of next week, since the devs are squashing the hyper logically complex bugs in their renpy game, then they'll have to send it to testers and solve another 20 new bugs before releasing the product.

 

[HarryFlash]

Christ, what has happened to this thread. If you looked at the last two pages you'd swear magicnuts was a bad dev.
Here's an idea, how about we wait a short while for the new release. After that we can either praise or criticise the devs depending on the quality of the work.
Something tells me a lot of these random milking posters will be eating humble pie.

 

[6Dromaius]

This is a genuinely fun game! It doesn't do much for me as far as crankin' it but I'm still dying for more! The guards are so wholesome and are by far my favorite characters haha

 

[whichone]

Imagine writing out paragraphs and paragraphs on multiple threads doing nothing but defending lazy liars who earn in a month more than you do in a year for FREE. The eternal pathetic existance of a bootlicker, lmao.

Imagine constantly returning to the thread of a game which you have such a low opinion of.
Are you a masochist?

If you don't like it as much as you state, here's an idea: Don't visit the thread!
Do us all a favour and stop with your boring shit & unwarranted, repeated bashing of the devs.
Your claims are patently ludicrous, to anyone with an oz of knowledge about this game.

midwits

'nuff said.

earn more in a month than you do in a year?????? i am not sure what job you have or where you are from, but that is very misleading or maybe you posted in the wrong thread?

I suspect that the following equation may hold the answer to this:
Low IQ = Low earning potential.

 

[Xiondingens]

Something tells me a lot of these random milking posters will be eating humble pie.

Yeah, sure, it is not as if those guys would just move on to the topic of another game, and the next, and the next until after some time they will unavoidable end up here again and start the same old milking discussion again.

I sometimes really wonder of those whole milking discussions are part of a really weird fetish that just eludes me completely.

And now that i think about it, i cant wait for the discussion about the evil N-word when the game will allow us fuck the wife of whatshisface the guard guy. I am sure that reading the evil N-tag alone will be enough to fill at least 6 pages of discussion.

 

[Sthr ▚ nix]

The guards are so wholesome and are by far my favorite characters haha

Exactly. Kevin and the gang is one of the best aspect in this game.

 

[bingolebongo]

Christ, what has happened to this thread. If you looked at the last two pages you'd swear magicnuts was a bad dev.
Here's an idea, how about we wait a short while for the new release. After that we can either praise or criticise the devs depending on the quality of the work.
Something tells me a lot of these random milking posters will be eating humble pie.

This happens every single time it gets near a new release. The entitlement trolls come out and get upset that the devs don't let them pirate their porn fast enough.

 

[WhamBamKam]

No offense but some of you really need to go outside and touch some grass instead of spamming f5 to see if the update is out yet and then complain when it isnt

 

[Abadd0n]

better to wait and see. game is dope and yes, it sucks that we have to wait for our spank material, but that is life.

 

[storm1051787]

Every thread on this site is the same. Any game that takes longer than two months to update has people whining about milking regardless of the circumstances or communication of the dev. This is literally a free game. It's not pirated, it's free. I don't know what what dev burned you guys so bad but not everyone is milking their game just because updates take a while.

 

[whichone]

Im not here to complain about the development time of a project i dont pay for, just agreeing with someone who is rightfully pointing that what the devs pretend to be doing is a lie.

Nothing the other poster has said has been done "rightfully".
His whole argument is a based on a bunch of unsubstantiated assumptions.
Neither he, nor you, have the first clue if what the dev says is a lie. You're both assuming that it is.
He has no evidence, or factual knowledge to support the claim.
Because the game has not been delivered as quickly as he would like, or thinks it should have been, the dev is instantly a liar and a crook.
It's the literal definition of attention seeking entitlement.

If he is so convinced that the dev is a liar, there's a really simple solution.
This site has numerous games. Move on. Find something else that he actually enjoys, rather than wasting his own time here, on something he thinks is crooked.
Leave the game & the thread to the people who do enjoy it.
But no, he must explain to the people who enjoy it, just why they are wrong to do so.
The white knight hero needs to save the poor people who have been deceived by this evil dev.

Posting an opinion of subjective bile is not productive & it is not going to change anyone else's opinion.
So it's a worthless exercise, a fool's errand.
The game is not going to suddenly turned up any quicker, because he claims the dev is milking.
It will be here when it's ready. Not before.
Suck it up & wait with patience.

 

[Bacalu]

Nothing the other poster has said has been done "rightfully".
His whole argument is a based on a bunch of unsubstantiated assumptions.
Neither he, nor you, have the first clue if what the dev says is a lie. You're both assuming that it is.
He has no evidence, or factual knowledge to support the claim.
Because the game has not been delivered as quickly as he would like, or thinks it should have been, the dev is instantly a liar and a crook.

If he is so convinced that the dev is a liar, there's a really simple solution.
This site has numerous games. Move on. Find something else that he actually enjoys, rather than wasting his own time here, on something he thinks is crooked.
Leave the game & the thread to the people who do enjoy it.

Posting an opinion of subjective bile is not productive.
The game is not going to suddenly turned up any quicker, because he claims the dev is milking.
It will be here when it's ready. Not before.
Everyone whinging just needs to stop behaving like such entitled brats.

The "assumption" we are making is according to the defenition the devs give of debugging lol. All the things listed there are issues that are found and addressed with little effort in renpy, as i've said, this game is only a very few tiny steps above the most bare bones renpy default experience.
And yes there is almost no excuse to take this much time to deliver an update for a game like this if we assume that the two devs are working full time on it (or 5-6 hours daily). I would even ask the patreons to reconsider what they are paying for since at this rate the game will take more than 20 years to be done and chances are something is gonna happen along the way and the project is gonna die in the middle of the road. But again, what i suspect that the devs are doing is either just commiting to 30 minutes of work daily or lie and just want to take this to next month so they can get another wage for 0 work.

But you're correct, the only reason im here is because i got hooked reading the discussion and i usually only check this thread once a month or so.

 

[whichone]

The "assumption" we are making is according to the defenition the devs give of debugging lol.

No.

rightfully pointing that what the devs pretend to be doing is a lie.

That was the assumption.

All the things listed there are issues that are found and addressed with little effort in renpy

That is another assumption.
Little effort to who, you?
Well they are not you, are they?
You have absolutely zero idea of how much effort it requires from them.
Therefore you also have absolutely no idea if they are lying.
Yet you claim that they are, as if it were a fact.
It's not a fact. It's just your opinion.
There is a distinct difference between the two.

If you are an amazing, superstar debugger, maybe you should offer your services.

as i've said, this game is only a very few tiny steps above the most bare bones renpy default experience.

This part is, again, just your opinion. Things are relative & subjective.
Something that seems simple to Person A may seem overwhelmingly difficult to Person B.
Are you talking from personal experience? You've made a game in Ren'Py?
Or are you just assuming?

 

[Bacalu]

That is the assumption.
Little effort to who, you?
Well they are not you, are they?
You have absolutely zero idea of how much effort it requires from them.

This part is just your opinion. Things are relative & subjective.
Something that seems simple to Person A may seem overwhelmingly difficult to Person B.

Love how you defend by indirectly assuming that the devs are crazy stupid and incompetent for not figuring out to how work with renpy after 2+ years of game development with it . And im the one making baseless assumptions? I could literally pin point you a youtube tutorial on how to implement every single feature present in that game, as it is part of the most basic things you do with renpy. But you just dust if off with "but everything here is relative and your opinion!!" despite you presenting me an excuse that also is dubious and makes even less sense in these circumstances.

If you are an amazing, superstar debugger, maybe you should offer your services.

Yeah i would also love to know why the devs havent tried to expand the team and hire someone to be in charge of the non creative work like coding.

No.

You have a person literally posting it in page 376.

 

[whichone]

"Oh you didn't like the fact that the chief took an hour and a half to complete the meal he said he will complete in about 20 minutes? Unless you can cook that same meal yourself you cannot complain!!!1"
lmao

Your analogy is lacking.
The Chef never said the meal was going to take X amount of time.
Show me where the devs said they would have the game ready by a specific date?
Prove your claim, or it's false.

If, when complaining about the length of time, I decided to tell the chef how easy each part of his process was & how quickly he should have performed it, then I obviously need to have experience & knowledge to back up that claim.
If I am not a chef, how the fuck do I know what's required?
Yet you are talking as if you know precisely what is required, so you must be a chef.
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of "the burden of proof"?
In short, you make the claim you need to prove it.

Love how you defend by indirectly assuming that the devs are crazy stupid and incompetent for not figuring out to how work with renpy after 2+ years of game development with it . And im the one making baseless assumptions? I could literally pin point you a youtube tutorial on how to implement every single feature present in that game, as it is part of the most basic things you do with renpy. But you just dust if off with "but everything here is relative and your opinion!!" despite you presenting me an excuse that also is dubious and makes even less sense in these circumstances.

I'm not defending anything, except for common sense.
What I am doing, is showing that something you think is easy, is not automatically easy to every/anyone else.
You claim that the bug fixing is simple. What bugs have they encountered? Do you even know what they are currently trying to fix?
If not, then your whole opinion & argument falls apart at the first hurdle.

Even if you do know what they're working on, do you know how difficult the devs may find some of them to fix?
Absolutely not. You have no idea.
Yet you make claims which you have no clue about the truth of, you suggest a YouTube video that made it look easy as evidence of your claim.
That's the literal definition of an unsubstantiated assumption.

You talk as if you're some sort of expert with Ren'Py, clearly you consider yourself a better, more competent developer than the people making this game.
So where's the evidence of your superiority?
Prove it, or it didn't happen.

 

[akikospam74]

I could literally pin point you a youtube tutorial on how to implement every single feature present in that game, as it is part of the most basic things you do with renpy.

lol ok bro.. Everyone is an expert on the internet.

If it is as simple as an youtube tutorial, make your own game. I'm sure you'll finish it in 3 months because you're a god in game development

 

[Bacalu]

I'm not defending anything, except for common sense.
You make claims which you have no clue about the truth of.
That's the literal definition of an unsubstantiated assumption.

Yeah you are not defending, just trying to counter argue with dumb use of "its all relative" lol.
The claims we are making are centered around the very own words of the devs themselves.

You talk as if you're some sort of expert with Ren'Py, clearly you consider yourself a better, more competent developer than the people making this game.
Prove it, or it didn't happen.

Why would i spend about 2-3 hours reinstalling renpy development kit and making a dummy game with the same architecture as this one just to prove you wrong? ANY person who has worked with renpy knows that the coding in there is part of the basic tutorial for a VN in renpy, go look up the videos and see it for yourself.

 

[whichone]

Yeah you are not defending, just trying to counter argue with dumb use of "its all relative" lol.

Things are relative.
As I said, one person finding something easy does not mean that another person automatically will.
This is not an opinion, it's a fact.

The claims we are making are centered around the very own words of the devs themselves.

Prove it.
Prove that you know exactly what bug they are working on, right now.
Where is the quote from the dev?
If you cannot prove it, quit with your unsubstantiated claims.

Why would i spend about 2-3 hours reinstalling renpy development kit and making a dummy game with the same architecture as this one just to prove you wrong? ANY person who has worked with renpy knows that the coding in there is part of the basic tutorial for a VN in renpy, go look up the videos and see it for yourself.

Again talking as if you're a competent developer.
Prove it.
Maybe start by proving that you know precisely what the architecture of this game is, as you claim.
Instead of just coming across like you're talking out your ass with ego & a superiority complex.
If you cannot prove it, quit with your unsubstantiated claims.

 

[theMickey_]

Bacalu You're talking about code bugs. But:

How do you count bug tasks? ​

The errors found while playing the currently under development content or things from previous releases that we want to fix/change before the next update. For example: missing hands or sprite elements, buttons that are misplaced or miss hover-idle states, events crashing with each other, sound effects over-lapping with environment music, characters in more than one place at the same time, quests not working well as a sandbox, etc. ​

So "bugs" can be code issues, missing/wrong images and sprites, sound issues (wrong sound/music, sounds being too loud/quiet/long/short), logical issues and a lot more.

I challenge you this: I will take a version of this game and put at least 10 bugs into it -- and not just coding bugs, but also image/sprite/sound/logical/etc ones. You'll then have 1 week to find and correct 10 of them. One week for 10 bugs! Are you up to it? And if you're as good as you claim to be (because every "noob" can professionally code Ren'Py after watching the YT tutorial!), you might even find all the bugs.

If you accept, I will need a few days to prepare a bugged version of this game.
But if you chicken out, you're just a troll and will end up on my ignore list right away.

 

[moskyx]

Two random lines of text you see on screen, with just two characters, equals to this in the scripts:

    show pov mneu bdoubt
    show myrtle bsad msad hfneu1
    myrtle "Will you do that?!"
    show pov hfneu1 bsad mside hbneu1 at m_cright with moveinright:
        xalign 0.4
    show myrtle eclosed mwonder hfneu1 bsad xthand
    show pov hfstill1
    pov "Sure. I'll be careful."

Misspell just one of those tiny little commands and you've got yourself a bug you won't notice until you play that scene - and only if you are fully focused, like most players will be while playing the game. That's two randomly chosen lines of dialogue of the thousands on each update (Myrtle's update, from which I've extracted that piece of code, contains roughly 3,000 dialogue lines). Now add logic bugs like characters showing at a certain time on a specific location that should change depending on what scenes have been already triggered, so you have to take into account every possible 'path' to properly code those encounters. Those situations just increase exponentially with every new update and quest, and they all should be tested and fixed when needed. Sure, WaL is not the most complex Ren'Py game ever but it's not barebone Ren'Py either.

Now, we are focusing on bugs. What about if we compare the number of 'edit' tasks instead and how they evolve during this polishing period? That is the real deal in terms of time investment since it involves redoing art (which is the most time-consuming task during the 'regular' development cycle). When the art was finally done (May 24th) edit tasks were at 327/344 and bugs were at 119/171.

Today, edit tasks are at 436/447 and bugs are at 246/269.
So there has been actually more editing work than debugging.

I guess they could have released an 'alpha' update full of bugs and mismatching expressions shortly after completing the planned art tasks. Somehow, I guess those who complain about the excessive time between updates would have complained about the game being buggy or having less quality than before despite 'mWhAHahAha dEvS aRe gEtTiNg RiCh AnD sTeaLInG yOuR fUcKinG mOney yOu BuNcH oF PrIcKs'. Maybe some people would have appreciated that faster update, though, but it just wouldn't be the game so many people fell in love with.

The game is 100% free. Yet, devs have managed to make a living of it - because many people actually like enough the results of their work. Some people claim that being able to make a living from a lewd game leads devs to become lazy and 'milk' their supporters slowing down their work rate as subscriptions don't encourage devs to 'work harder'. However, their supporters on Patreon grow hugely every time they release an update, so according to rational logic, devs should be the most interested in releasing quicker updates as this would mean a bigger monthly income -plus, in Magicnuts' case, had they actually released the new update when they expected to do it, they wouldn't need to refund those who signed up in June hoping they were going to get a new update. So no, slowing down releases is not exactly beneficial as they could get even more profits by updating the game more often (unless, of course, we assume devs have found an optimal income level and they just don't feel the need to push it for more).

That said, I can honestly understand that criticism -the Patreon's model does have its shortcomings- but I won't ever share it: even if whiners are right and these devs are just slacking off and adding random numbers to their charts to make it seem they are working hard when they aren't, or if they are just dumb people who don't know how to debug a simple Ren'Py game, why is it 'bad' to release an update in 6, 7 or 9 months instead of 5? Why shouldn't they be able to work under lesser pressure thanks to people who enjoy what they are actually doing? Why couldn't they try to extend for some more time this nice situation? Don't we dream all of something like that? Is it just plain jealousy, then? Why do some people feel it's like a sin for the devs to take some days off (which these devs aren't taking, btw) and enjoy their leisure time outside of developing the game, when they can afford it? Just because you wanted the game to be out faster -so you can already start pressuring them for the next installment? If you don't like their 'work ethics' you are free to not support them. You are free to explain your reasons -your personal assumptions and beliefs. But laughing at those who either trust the devs or simply don't care and just want to show them some appreciation by throwing them a few bucks is just mean -why do some people feel the urge to tell other adult people how they should not spend their money?- and accusing any dev of ill-intentioned wrongdoings is something you just can't do unless you are living in their home and you can prove with proper facts that they are lying when they say they are actually working on their project.