Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[LeonJKennedy]

IS THE DEVELOPER OKAY OR NAH

Yes

 

[TheDevian]

IS THE DEVELOPER OKAY OR NAH

Can you read, or nah? Also, don't shout.

 

[Calvar]

But how is having people working comfortably, at their own pace, on something they like, and getting well-paid for it by people who are not being misled on giving them money, a 'concern'? Who is 'concerned'? No, you just want them to work faster, which is fair, but that's entirely on you, your wishes, and your expectations. Having successful devs taking their time to create polished works, while being transparent about it (and releasing it free for all, in this case) is not concerning at all.

By all means support them, it allows the content to be created at whatever pace people permit to them. If people are okay with the meandering then that is quite fine. It is however concerning to Me as I work in the field, understand development processes, incentives, and believe the progress/payment ratio to be off. Which is why I pulled my donations from 3 developers. I wish them all the luck and admire their product to be sure, however I will not be part of the donation pool until things are released at more regular intervals. If it changes I will start back up again.

 

[whichone]

It is simply an observation, and one that is legitimate.

We've all witnessed devs who've displayed the type of poor behaviour that you reference.
Generally they're in the minority.
But that does not, in any way, automatically equate to it being fair to level at any\all devs.
That's a rather large generalisation, rather than an "observation".

Personally, I'd suggest that we judge devs on their own behaviour, not on the piss poor behaviour of some others.
It's pretty easy to identify that your generalisation does not legitimately apply to the devs for this game.

 

[moskyx]

By all means support them, it allows the content to be created at whatever pace people permit to them. If people are okay with the meandering then that is quite fine. It is however concerning to Me as I work in the field, understand development processes, incentives, and believe the progress/payment ratio to be off. Which is why I pulled my donations from 3 developers. I wish them all the luck and admire their product to be sure, however I will not be part of the donation pool until things are released at more regular intervals. If it changes I will start back up again.

No, look, unless you are creating adult games on your own, you work in a different field with other rules and surely different progress/payment ratios, and you're judging them with those different values. This is not intrinsically wrong: in the end, we all make our choices according to our views. For instance, I have other criteria to choose who I support but, as it happens, I don't support Magicnuts financially, just like you - but in my case it's because, at this point, my 5 bucks wouldn't make any difference, so I prefer supporting other devs I consider underrated.

The thing you should note, though, is that this scene is not an actual industry like the one you're presumably part of. Even if there are a few proper studios (kind of), it's mostly made of solo devs who aspire to keep working solo while earning a comfortable living wage. Sure, when you work solo and you're getting a good amount of cash that doesn't seem to drastically recede even when you work 'slower', there's an incentive to not push yourself up to your max. But then is up to each individual to choose which path to follow. And those games you used as examples are indeed the perfect example of successful ventures in this weird business: they are talented, serious, committed people creating quality products and who managed to live off them, which should be everyone's life's goal - and who keep giving their best instead of slacking. They have a nice cushion that lets them work in a more relaxed way (maybe, because these Magicnuts guys claim to be working on their game 7 days per week for some months now) but this is not translating into worst products.

Updates are taking longer to be released? Yeah, that's a fact. Another fact is that we are yet to see a drop in those projects' quality that could justify using the word 'concerning' in the way we tend to understand around here (and that you also used when you mentioned the risk of devs releasing just the bare minimum content to stay on patreon). No, each update is bigger, more polished and more complex than the previous one. So I can't really get this negative view of what *might* happen when the reality is that those projects you mentioned are precisely two of the most reliable and trustworthy projects out there. I do believe that people who tend to expect the worse from successful devs with clean records are either victims of some scammer or probably just projecting their own fears of what they would do if in their shoes.

 

[hrimthyrs]

Why are the people making hand-crafted, artisan, sparkling adult games satisfied with making a living doing something they enjoy at their own pace instead of reinvesting every penny into building up a misery machine that sucks the life out of its underpaid and overworked employees in order to rapidly churn out games carefully calibrated to maximize profit?

 

[GucciGang69]

This is a very great game with a great art. Damn been two years since i saw this, and now i will ripe the benefit of waiting.

 

[Filipis]

By all means support them, it allows the content to be created at whatever pace people permit to them. If people are okay with the meandering then that is quite fine. It is however concerning to Me as I work in the field, understand development processes, incentives, and believe the progress/payment ratio to be off. Which is why I pulled my donations from 3 developers. I wish them all the luck and admire their product to be sure, however I will not be part of the donation pool until things are released at more regular intervals. If it changes I will start back up again.

Careful now, those words can get you in trouble with the local law enforcement in these parts. I tried bringing my similar concern to light here, and got railed on for even daring to suggest that it is definitely not worth the money to support WaL developers every month between updates.

Prepare yourself...

 

[Nineonenine]

Hope this game dosen't follow the 'milf' game next door.

 

[moskyx]

Careful now, those words can get you in trouble with the local law enforcement in these parts. I tried bringing my similar concern to light here, and got railed on for even daring to suggest that it is definitely not worth the money to support WaL developers every month between updates.

Prepare yourself...

I think you're forgetting the part in which you gently asked if you could make fun of those who still think it's worth... That's what got you problems

 

[Michael888666]

Hey i just downloaded the android port and it triggered as a trojan in avast, should i be worried or nah?

 

[KingBea]

Weekly report 167
Hi, everybody.

I hope you've had a good week despite the scorchingly hot weather, especially if you live in the northern hemisphere.
Our report this week will be brief, mainly because we did more of what we had done last week: Chestnut worked only on cutscenes, and I wrote, edited, and posed scenes from Gomira's second quest (I'm still in the beginning parts of it).

For the rest of this report, I want to address an issue that I think should not be ignored: our development time for the 0.7 content.
We released our previous update on the 31st of July of last year, so it's almost a year since an update, and I completely understand that many of you who have supported us simply because you like our game and want to see us succeed are unhappy with our rate of output. It's frustrating to know that we're not doing as well as you think we should. We owe you, our patrons, everything when it comes to being able to work on the game full-time and take care of our family, and I don't want to fail you.

There's a lot that I'd like to do but can't, but the least I can do is explain why it has taken us this long to develop 0.7, and what we're doing to shorten it. Whether our reasons are valid or not, I'll leave to your judgment:
Shortly after the release of 0.6, when we had taken a short break, had done the planning phase of 0.7, and had started with the writing and the earlier tasks, we had our second baby. Our newborn was completely different from our first child and required a lot more attention from us, and that was the first circumstance that noticeably impacted the number of hours we could dedicate to work at that time.
The second circumstance happened in January when I had two back-to-back surgeries that crippled me for a while, leaving most of the work on Chestnut's shoulders.
In both of these instances, we discussed and considered pausing Patreon for a month or two but decided that that would essentially halt the project because, despite having a baby and the surgeries, we were trying to put as many hours a day as we could into development. The hours were admittedly less than before, but they moved the project forward.

It has been a few months now that we have gotten back into our old routine, not as well as before we had our baby (I used to clock 8-10 hours a day, seven days a week, now I do 7-8 hours, still seven days a week), but the impact of those months is there. Add to that the fact that Gomira's update has more words than any of our previous releases, translating into more content that needs to be posed, edited, tested, and, of course, created art for.
To move things faster, we have been working seven days a week and stopped taking breaks (except when necessary for the baby). People ask me for release dates, and I'm sorry because although we have internal deadlines that we try to reach, I cannot share them. All I can say is that we're trying very hard to have this release ready as soon as we can.

Have a great weekend.
Cheers

 

[Jondoen88]

TL: DR; Let them cook. This is billed as Thanksgiving dinner. Chill.

~~~

Alas, asked and answered. Which still (roughly) aligns with the given understandings at the jump.

5->6 took ~11months. (Rose update)

6->7 is billed as double the content of 6 thus 1y10m (or 22m) wouldn't be insane. Plus the "forgiveness factor" of life happening like having a new kid, medical happenings. How much forgiveness is there might be inversely related to the amount of money sunk in. Capitalism is brutal, yo.

Knowing back in Apr 2023 it was ~50% at the 8m mark was a good sign that it would take 16m total which yes 6m worth of skill improvement and optimization would be mind-blowingly massive IMHO. Do I expect it especially with recent troubles, no, but 18m? Maybe.

So, be salty, but I personally see nothing but massive respect and props to 'Nutz and kin cause even on my outsider's but professional eye they gonna land it in the window.

So... my perspective... using numbers.
Last deliverable timeframe: 11m
Expectations set: 2x previous deliverable.
Expected timeframe: 22m
Current "expected" progress: 12 of said 22.
Noted progress: 50% at 8m
Updated "fast" timeframe: 12 of 16.

Working Assumption: Content to-be delivered is indeed double of previous. (Faith. They deliver good so far so i feel safe here)

Disclaimer: I am not an insider my opinions are my own and timeframe is 100% speculation if you find my logic sound and wish to hang your hat the same as I do. Awesome but do not take my words as gospel. I do not have a stake in WaL, but wish their success as any professional would.

 

[hrimthyrs]

TL: DR; Let them cook. This is billed as Thanksgiving dinner. Chill.

~~~

Alas, asked and answered. Which still (roughly) aligns with the given understandings at the jump.

[Snipped the rest for length]

No, no, no, you're using facts and logic to rationally assess the productivity of a dev team. You're supposed to just go on the fact that some other dev has a history of overpromising and underperforming and assume that every dev team is like that because crowdfunding, somehow.

And, anytime somebody points out that they drop a chart every update showing how much additional material was added relative to previous updates, which shows that MN is keeping additional content as a function of development time within a reasonable range, or that the consistent pattern seen with every game is that there's a spike in Patreon backers when a new update drops, who then gradually withdraw support as the months drag on, so anybody actually looking to "milk" crowdfunding backers would release monthly nano-updates with the absolute bare minimum of additional content, not go many months between updates, bleeding supporters the whole time, before dropping an update that doubles the amount of content in the game, you're supposed to just facepalm react to them and never provide even the attempt at a coherent counter-argument.

 

[moskyx]

No, no, no, you're using facts and logic to rationally assess the productivity of a dev team. You're supposed to just go on the fact that some other dev has a history of overpromising and underperforming and assume that every dev team is like that because crowdfunding, somehow.

And, anytime somebody points out that they drop a chart every update showing how much additional material was added relative to previous updates, which shows that MN is keeping additional content as a function of development time within a reasonable range, or that the consistent pattern seen with every game is that there's a spike in Patreon backers when a new update drops, who then gradually withdraw support as the months drag on, so anybody actually looking to "milk" crowdfunding backers would release monthly nano-updates with the absolute bare minimum of additional content, not go many months between updates, bleeding supporters the whole time, before dropping an update that doubles the amount of content in the game, you're supposed to just facepalm react to them and never provide even the attempt at a coherent counter-argument.

Psycophant! Fanboy! Booh!

 

[TheDevian]

Hey i just downloaded the android port and it triggered as a trojan in avast, should i be worried or nah?

No, if you got it from here, or their web site, it should be clean.

 

[meh1995]

Holy shit is a year.

 

[ogapetape]

View attachment 2790111
Weekly report 167
Hi, everybody.

I hope you've had a good week despite the scorchingly hot weather, especially if you live in the northern hemisphere.
Our report this week will be brief, mainly because we did more of what we had done last week: Chestnut worked only on cutscenes, and I wrote, edited, and posed scenes from Gomira's second quest (I'm still in the beginning parts of it).

For the rest of this report, I want to address an issue that I think should not be ignored: our development time for the 0.7 content.
We released our previous update on the 31st of July of last year, so it's almost a year since an update, and I completely understand that many of you who have supported us simply because you like our game and want to see us succeed are unhappy with our rate of output. It's frustrating to know that we're not doing as well as you think we should. We owe you, our patrons, everything when it comes to being able to work on the game full-time and take care of our family, and I don't want to fail you.

There's a lot that I'd like to do but can't, but the least I can do is explain why it has taken us this long to develop 0.7, and what we're doing to shorten it. Whether our reasons are valid or not, I'll leave to your judgment:
Shortly after the release of 0.6, when we had taken a short break, had done the planning phase of 0.7, and had started with the writing and the earlier tasks, we had our second baby. Our newborn was completely different from our first child and required a lot more attention from us, and that was the first circumstance that noticeably impacted the number of hours we could dedicate to work at that time.
The second circumstance happened in January when I had two back-to-back surgeries that crippled me for a while, leaving most of the work on Chestnut's shoulders.
In both of these instances, we discussed and considered pausing Patreon for a month or two but decided that that would essentially halt the project because, despite having a baby and the surgeries, we were trying to put as many hours a day as we could into development. The hours were admittedly less than before, but they moved the project forward.

It has been a few months now that we have gotten back into our old routine, not as well as before we had our baby (I used to clock 8-10 hours a day, seven days a week, now I do 7-8 hours, still seven days a week), but the impact of those months is there. Add to that the fact that Gomira's update has more words than any of our previous releases, translating into more content that needs to be posed, edited, tested, and, of course, created art for.
To move things faster, we have been working seven days a week and stopped taking breaks (except when necessary for the baby). People ask me for release dates, and I'm sorry because although we have internal deadlines that we try to reach, I cannot share them. All I can say is that we're trying very hard to have this release ready as soon as we can.

Have a great weekend.
Cheers

At least they finally agknowledged the HUUUUUUUUUGE wait time

 

[Ozzfest]

At least they finally agknowledged the HUUUUUUUUUGE wait time

Good news indeed. Now we can wait another year, np.

 

[Deleted member 5988643]

Good news indeed. Now we can wait another year, np.

I wonder if they celebrate that date, 1 year without an update...