What are y'alls opinions on Renpy games?

[pepplez]

That's annoying as hell, just write "She walked to the window and glanced outside" ffs.

I hear you! You're right, that's the other side of the coin, but I'm talking about the opposite, there you're shown a thick-bosomed blonde in a green tight-fitting dress and you're so excited about her that the saliva drips out of your mouth blah blah blah- and this kind of picture description, I can no longer pull, the other kind just as little!
Edit: I mean, just let them interact, communicate everything more is redundant description.

 

[VegitoHlove]

I don't really care about engines. What really matters is how the develop utilize it to it's fullest potent and the actual game's content that matters. I disagree with the foolish notion of a "bad engine". So for Ren'Py games as a whole? I like em' well enough.

 

[haksaw]

there you're shown a thick-bosomed blonde in a green tight-fitting dress and you're so excited about her that the saliva drips out of your mouth blah blah blah-

Well, if the author can't make good meaningful descriptions, he's just a shit writer and dialogues won't be any better. I like books and VNs, that are basically books, mainly for descriptions. You can't really show a lot of things you can describe and those descriptions set a tone. The very same picture can be described in many different ways, which in turn can have different meanings, while if the picture is all you have it's hard to grasp what author wanted to say with it outside of the very obvious stuff.

 

[BzPz]

Because usually a single picture (or even just a background with sprites) describe a whole scene that can go for a while. Making separate CG for any new development is troublesome, and I personally dislike that. I remember some game that had like 5 CGs for a simple scene where girl just moves around the room. That's annoying as hell, just write "She walked to the window and glanced outside" ffs.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Personally I like extra little details that give you more insight into the characters.

For example, showing how someone starts their day before going to work.
You could just write "He lived like a slob, but always showed up with a smile".

But, what if he woke up and had to force himself out of bed.
Had to shove aside empty pizza boxes to find a clean enough cup for his morning coffee.
Drink stale cold coffee because he can't be bothered to make a new pot, from that filthy cup, while staring at a picture of a younger him, smiling with his arm around a smiling girl.
Sigh, throw the cup back among the empty boxes.
Shave, find acceptable clothes to wear, get dressed.
Last thing before leaving his apartment, he sets his face into the happy mask that people expected to see.

Sure, don't show the same thing over and over again, maybe twice with small differences to emphasize this has been going on for a while. Or show a break from the routine, something happed.

But hey, maybe my game can be simpler than I thought.
I'll just show a picture of 2 people and write "They were both really hot, and then they fucked".

 

[BzPz]

The very same picture can be described in many different ways, which in turn can have different meanings, while if the picture is all you have it's hard to grasp what author wanted to say with it outside of the very obvious stuff.

So, you're saying that if you had more than 1 picture, you could have a clearer picture of what the author wanted to convey?

 

[haksaw]

For example, showing how someone starts their day before going to work.

What's wrong with that? All I'm telling you don't need separate CGs to show MC in bed, then CG of him with a mug, then CG of him in bathroom and so on. That's annoying. Just show a single one and describe all that with words, there's nothing worth showing here that you actually need to visualize.

 

[BzPz]

What's wrong with that? All I'm telling you don't need separate CGs to show MC in bed, then CG of him with a mug, then CG of him in bathroom and so on. That's annoying. Just show a single one and describe all that with words, there's nothing worth showing here that you actually need to visualize.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the "Visual" part of VN.

 

[Yngling]

For a VN, Ren'py stands way above anything else. Ren'py has standard functions like rollback, skip, auto save etc. etc. Basically it has all the functions you'd want for a VN are already standard in the program.

I suppose Unity can do everything Ren'py can, but then you'll have to program all of it in, and most devs fail in that.

Where the line is exactly between VN and an actual Game, I don't know. It is definitely possible to have gameplay elements in Ren'py. Some actual Games, like Patronus, really stretch Ren'py to it's limits, but whether that's a wise thing to do, I don't know.

If a person happens to hate VN's for whatever reason, then, yeah, I suppose you can disregard 95% of all Ren'py "games".

If I have to name one downside of Ren'py is that the menu's and the text box looks a bit bland and generic in it's standard form. Although it is also perfectly possible to customize all of that and make it look nicer / more professional. It remains a bit difficult to hide that it's, in fact, a Ren'py "game".

As for the differences between VN and Game, I'd say:
- Kinetic novel = linear story, no choices
- VN = story with meaningful choices which impact the story and endings
- Game = program with gameplay, that is, things that the player needs to do, which don't directly influence the story but are still necessary to progress with the game. Examples: exploring a dungeon by walking around in it, pressing keys to avoid incoming danger, buying and selling goods etc.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What's wrong with that? All I'm telling you don't need separate CGs to show MC in bed, then CG of him with a mug, then CG of him in bathroom and so on. That's annoying. Just show a single one and describe all that with words, there's nothing worth showing here that you actually need to visualize.

Why are you even bothering yourself with visual novels since what you want is clearly text based stories that will mouth feed you everything you need to know ?
Not that it's bad or that you are wrong to want that, just that it's not an universal opinion. There's peoples who like to see the action instead of having it told, and to decrypt what they see, instead of having everything explained to them.

 

[DorianGreyEminence]

I like it. If I actually want to PLAY a game, I just fire up the XBox. I'm here for the porn; occasionally the stories are captivating. Gameplay in any format on here is, with few exceptions, lacking at best and usually just tedious to me. So I like the click through, choose your own adventure with occasional upgrades or purchases and whatnot.

 

[Crestrial]

Funny question, because visual novels are not games. They should've separated VNs into their own subforum apart from actual games.

 

[DuniX]

The reason why Ren'py is so prominent is a combination of factors.
Most graphical assets are CG they get from Daz or Illusion that are static images that are most useable by something like a VN. Ren'py is just the engine that is most suited for that.
For things like Unity or Unreal that would necessitate creating their own 3D assets and characters.

On the other hand basically all Japanese RPGs and Strategy Games have Visual Novel style events in them so there is nothing stopping you using Ren'py for games like that as the Screen Language and ATL is powerful enough for most of that.
Where ren'py fails is for more real-time, dynamic and action games, you would heavily have to depend on python for that and there is no point when you have Unity that is better to use for that.

 

[haksaw]

Why are you even bothering yourself with visual novels since what you want is clearly text based stories that will mouth feed you everything you need to know ?

First of all, I like books and read them often, so I do like "text based" stories. As for why I like VNs there're two main reasons. First is character sprites. I have really hard time memorizing character appearance in books. Usually they are described only once when introduced and it's very hard for me to keep that description in memory for hours of reading. That's why I have very little favorite book characters because it's kinda hard to have a connection with a character when you don't even remember how he looks like and have to pull generic "tough man" out of your imagination every time he's mentioned.
Second reason is audio. Both music and voice acting. Music is good at setting the mood, while voice acting is great at conveing emotion. While you can describe emotions with words, it hits defferent when you actually hear it, especially when you have your focus elswhere while reading. For example, when I read some combat scene, I focus on imagining the action, rather than what kind of voices characters make.

 

[anne O'nymous]

First of all, I like books and read them often, so I do like "text based" stories.

And so ? You aren't the only one who like to read, I try to read at least one book/week, and when I was younger, having more free time, it wasn't exceptional that I read at least one/day. Still, I prefer Visual Novel when it come to games here.

As for why I like VNs there're two main reasons.

Please, don't take me wrong, I'm not criticizing you, and it's not "against you". It's just a question that pop my head while reading your explanation, why do you like to read if you are so bad at it ? Because it's what your two main reasons are saying, you aren't good at reading books, or perhaps is it more "you are made for it".

The reason why people generally complain about movies adaptation is because they rarely match what they imagined. The characters in your head are not precisely what is described, they slowly derive from the description to become something unique, tweaked by what yourself imagine from their actions. And, of course, the tone and mood are only set by words. Whatever how good the author can be, you are never totally sure that you read them correctly.
This make the story unique. Every reader have read a different story with different characters, and actions taking place on different locations. All those stories have in common the canvas woven by the author but, anything build following instructions, they aren't faithful to the original intent, having a part of you in them. And you are saying that you like text based stories precisely because you don't have to do that.
Of course, the same could be said for me. After all, as I said I prefer Visual Novels, therefore to be shown what the characters and location looks like, and what the tone is. But unlike you, who said that you prefer when you don't have to imagine them, I do it because I want to continue to use my imagination despite the (too often) lack of writing capabilities of the author. I want to read the tone and mood from the combination between the not so good dialogs and what the image in front of my eyes is telling me. I want to see what the bedroom looks like, to be able to imagine what the character is doing inside it, and so on. Since I the lack of writing capabilities don't permit me to goes behind the words, I want to at least have the possibility to go behind the images.

Now, perhaps is it just because, after a bit more than 35 years spent reading so much, books start to be annoying and I want a new challenge. I don't know and it's not really the place for such introspection. But the fact is that there's really few authors on the adult gaming scene, and more generally on the gaming scene, who effectively have the capability to make me dream with just their words. And it was already the case in the mid 80's, when the games that made me discover video gaming and like it where mostly textual. At this time they weren't near to the books I liked to read, and it haven't really changed nowadays.

 

[haksaw]

why do you like to read if you are so bad at it ? Because it's what your two main reasons are saying, you aren't good at reading books

I don't really think there's such thing as being bad at reading fiction. You do it for fun, so you interact with it in a way that brings you joy. I never said I don't like imagining things, I talked about characters specifically. I'm bad with memorizing people in real life too, so there's no wonder. It's just not fun for me to dwell on characters. So things that focus on characters, like Crime and Punishment, was utterly boring and annoying for me. Damn school assignments Yeah, maybe author is good at describing angst and inner turmoil, but why do I care, go kill some more people! No? Where's fun in that? Overly complex appearance descriptions are also boring for me, to the point of skipping them entirely. Worldbuilding, actions and maybe some philosophical dilemmas and how to approach them are the things that I'm interested in for the most part.
I remember a funny story. I have various worlds with a lot of characters thought up in my head just for the fun of it. And I was once creating a character in some RPG and thought "oh, maybe I'll name him after some of my own characters!" and to my amazement I found out, that not a single one of more than 50 characters I made up has a name I... just don't care?

 

[anne O'nymous]

So things that focus on characters, like Crime and Punishment, was utterly boring and annoying for me. Damn school assignments Yeah, maybe author is good at describing angst and inner turmoil, but why do I care, go kill some more people! No? Where's fun in that? Overly complex appearance descriptions are also boring for me, to the point of skipping them entirely.

Once again, to take me wrong, it's just an observation and I have the (bad?) habit to speak frankly, but you are full of surprises, and by "surprises" I mean contradictions.

Yesterday you said that, "well, if the author can't make good meaningful descriptions, he's just a shit writer and dialogues won't be any better. I like books and VNs, that are basically books, mainly for descriptions". And now you are saying that the said description must stay globally superficial, and therefore, at least for the mood and tone, in fact not too meaningful.
You also said that you have difficulties to remember what characters (and I guess also locations) looks like, while admitting that you'll not hesitate to skip their description if it bore you ; the second being obviously an obstacle to the first one.
And, of course, you say that you like to read, insisting on this, but each time you talk about reading it feel like you're talking about something you don't want to do. Of course, Dostoevsky is far to be the most readable writer, but reading you it really feel like a description that would need more than two/three sentences is already above your limit.

Note that, once again, it's not a criticism, just an observation.
Everyone is unique, and there isn't a "good way" to live, read, do whatever, just a "most common" one. Whatever how you do something, as long as it works for you and you're happy with it, it's not a "bad way".
In the end, I guess those contradictions explain why you prefer Visual Novels that are descriptive instead of following the "show don't tell" rule. Having CGs that visually describe the action, instead of having few words summarizing it, being the equivalent to the overly complex descriptions, providing more information that you want to, can, or are ready to, receive, and therefore probably feeling overwhelming.

 

[VMiller]

A good Renpy game in my opinion is something like an interactive comics, where the visual part and the text are in harmony.
Unfortunately, many games have problems with the plot, the characters are too banal and predictable. They do not look like real people, their character is primitive, as in the novels of Dostoevsky and anime.

 

[haksaw]

And now you are saying that the said description must stay globally superficial, and therefore, at least for the mood and tone, in fact not too meaningful.

Meaningful means it has to have a meaning and relevance to the story. I don't consider most appearance descriptions meaningful, that's all. Character having one eye has a potential story relevance and I will remember that, what color his coat is and what his buttons are made of is likely irrelevant and if such descriptions drag on I'm starting to get bored, knowing this will likely never be brought up again. But in that instance I was talking about descriptions of events. Because you can't really show action as cool as it can be described. That is partly true for appearance as well, but then again, I don't care about that. So having appearance descriptions handled by art and leaving action descriptions to words is great for me.

 

[TheMagicalGurl]

So, one of the reason why you like RPG Maker games is the main reason why people tend to dislike it...

Note that this isn't a criticism, just a observation, and also a demonstration that the engine by itself isn't really to blame. Like for any other game engine, the problem is what people do with it, and what players expect from it.

While the realization isn't as good as it should/could and, from my point of view, the interest relatively limited, what a game like Lust Hunter have in common with the usual Ren'Py games, except precisely to be made with Ren'Py ? There's also the good old Sakura Dungeon, among some other games who decided to not follow the VN route.
If you want to find interesting Ren'Py games, you generally need to looks at games less liked. Precisely because they don't appeal to VN lover, while members who prefer more gameplay tend to avoid Ren'Py games, and therefore don't found the ones that could possibly interest them.

An accurate statement. A game engine is a tool. Some renpy devs can stretch the engine to make amazing games like Ace Academy and as you mentioned, Sakura Dungeon. Some RPGM devs can make RPGM less shitty of an engine like RyenSaotome, Fleeting Iris: Alanysa Chronicles and Peasant's Quest. Some can make magic from HTML like Secretary, Hentai U and College Daze. As Anne said, it's the skill of the dev... Not the engine itself.

Also the intended goal. My game is a visual novel. I am telling you a story and try my damnedest to give you enough choices and fun things to see to keep you engaged and enjoying the sci-fi epic I am trying to tell (at least I hope the user feels it is lol)... It's hard to do, especially as a solo dev but you have the find the right one that checks off the boxes you like and the tags you enjoy to maximize your enjoyment, OP.

 

[Deleted member 5563201]

For a VN, Ren'py stands way above anything else. Ren'py has standard functions like rollback, skip, auto save etc. etc. Basically it has all the functions you'd want for a VN are already standard in the program.

The only answer this discussion needs.
Having to play a VN/Kinetic Novel/Linear RPG made on any engine that doesn't have those features is horrible.
Today I downloaded the game called "Lisa", made in RPGM, the speed of the dialogues equal to a snail (which cannot be changed), I pressed Enter twice and lost a line of dialogue and the game does not have a rollback feature or a dialogue record so for me to read it I would have to go through the whole dialogue again, I could use the skip feature but if I used it there would be a danger of skipping more than I should and having to repeat the process again. So I just decided to delete the game and play something else.
That's why I love Ren'py, it's complete with all the functions needed for VNs, it's simple to use, lightweight for almost any pc to run with no problem and I can play just using the mouse!! Ren'py is pure love.