when did ntr became so popular?

[SinisterPortal]

Do you live in Japan?

no

 

[morphnet]

just saying that it's in fact the most popular hentai genre in Japan

I opened the japanese version of the site

Do you live in Japan?

no

just saying that it's in fact the most popular hentai genre in Japan

 

[Evangelion-01]

I took bias into account, though I wasn't sure if it was personal bias or observational bias. If you look at some of those links there is a mix of old and new games but one to play close attention to (for the best context) is the 2017 "resources - discussion - development" thread.

You will see that the replies from 2017 include links to many other sites, anime-sharing, vndb, ohentai, torrents, hongfire etc.
This shows that in 2017 there was a substantial fanbase across the largest / best known sites already. It also means that those following it and those making games started long before 2017, if by 2017 they already had a large following because they didn't grow that large in just a year or so.

Also note that this site only allows english translated games, the sites linked in the lists allowed non translated games too. So even taking your bias into account the popularity of the genre is not accurately represented by the number of games available on F95, then or now.

Which brings us back to "ever since corona" being inaccurate.

That depends as I specified in an earlier post that I limit my observation to F95, so your last statement isn't really contradicting my observation.
Let's be honest for every "fetish", recognized by the masses or not, there are fans and content, we are not really discussing that... we are discussing when and how this fetish made it's way in the top rankings of content both in games and discussions here on F95... or atleast I thought that is what we did?!

Why was Lady Chatterley's Lover so popular and read by so many if the story in NTR is so bad?

It sold 3 million copies within 3 months of its publication (200,000 alone in its first day!). It did not feature blackmail, rape or hypnosis to my recollection. It is now a classic of literature.

Never read it so couldn't say... but these numbers are even lower than some political memoires... so what exactly qulifies this as "popular"?

Not really "much higher", and harem games still win:

Total games during the last 365 days: 7248
Netorare - 753 (10%)
Harem - 1322 (18%)
Total games during the last 180 days: 4699
Netorare - 525 (11%)
Harem - 953 (20%)

For memory, overall, there's 8% of Netorare games, against 11% of harem games. So, yes, Netorare games have seen a small gain of interest, but the proportion of harem games have almost doubled.

I'd like to put in the following argument... Tags on this sitre have evolved and changed for years now, for example the "NTR" tag was broken apart in "cheating" and "netorare" quiet recently some games also avoid the Netorare tag by whoring the LI out so the "Prostitution" tag applies.
The tags are not retroactively added to games aswell and only gets added to games still in development.
And finally I am not argueing about games with the "Harem" Tag dominateing afterall many if not most NTR games also have the Harem tag (it's just not MCs Harem).

 

[anne O'nymous]

According to Master Bunguwa, one of the greatest marabout in the world. If he can make the love of your life come back in less than 5 days, he obviously can tell what is the most popular hentai genre in Japan...

And if he didn't answered "lolicon", it's because he'd been threatened by is payment processor.

 

[Icarus Media]

Never read it so couldn't say... but these numbers are even lower than some political memoires... so what exactly qulifies this as "popular"?

Are you using modern day numbers? Because LCL was published in 1928 privately and 1959/1960 publicly in the US/UK respectively, and numbers of the population have increased since those days as well as factoring in the change in public perception of morality back then too, both have to be taken into account rather than just 'one number higher'.

Since 1960 in the UK population has increased by approximately 16.9 million (from 52.4 million to 69.3 million), for the US since 1959 the population has increased 154 million (from 177 million to 331 million). If you are using modern political memoir units sold then you have a far more increased market of consumers which would affect the comparison.

Assuming the 3 million were UK sales, we would therefore get 5.75% of the population in 3 months alone and remember, this is not counting subsequent sales after the initial 3 months.

Assuming the 3 million were US sales, we would therefore get 1.69% of the population in 3 months alone and remember, this is not counting subsequent sales after the initial 3 months.

We're also ignoring the morality issue since morality is subjective and cannot be quantified, but the fact it sold such numbers despite 1959 being a very conservative, traditional, christian morality generation in both the US and the UK would also be a contributing factor, a political memoir is not subject to moralistic censure, thus the comparison fails I feel on 3 grounds:

1) Population was smaller back then in comparison to modern population figures, thus a comparison between ancient population figures vs modern has to account for the rise in population that compromise the market share that could purchase the product.

2) The morality barrier was so existent and formidable back then that in comparing such a work of yesteryear to a modern moral audience we do a disservice to the effort it took to achieve such numbers against that barrier, whereas a modern political memoir faces no such backlash.

3) A Book about a noble lady cheating on her war veteran disabled husband with the rugged estate and peasant gamekeeper is far different a field than modern political memoirs and thus near to an apples vs oranges comparison thereby. The more apt and modern equivalent today would perhaps be the 50 Shades of Grey series if a comparison had to be made but even then...that was more a BDSM work.

 

[woody554]

I did a post about that in the summer but I'll repeat myself - if you go to DLsite the tags are sorted by popularity among users. And the most popular one is NTR (translated as 'cuckold' by google page translator)
View attachment 5487569

not that it matters at all, but those are NOT sorted AND cuckold is not the most popular genre even in that 11 genre sample. also there's ~100 or so other genres, so there's really no reason to think this isn't 8% or even less of the total.

I'm also thinking you were browsing something else than games, as the game section currently as only 800 cuckold games. not 25,506.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Tags on this sitre have evolved and changed for years now, for example the "NTR" tag was broken apart in "cheating" and "netorare" quiet recently

I guess that I have to ask: Do you think that I am stupid?

Don't bother to answer, because anyway you clearly lack of luck...

The very first game to have been shared here, that is also the very first thread to have been created, have the "netorare" tag. And like your bullshit need a bit more nails to its coffin, the same day, was also shared the first game with the "cheating" tag.
But wait, there's more nails to come...

some games also avoid the Netorare tag by whoring the LI out so the "Prostitution" tag applies.

I could answer that "netorare" and "prostitution" are obviously not the same thing, but it would be petty; Christmas is coming, I need to be a good boy if I want Santa's gifts. So, Instead I prefer to point to something else.

Do you know what tag, in top of "netorare", the very first game to be shared here have? Can you believe it, it's "prostitution"
Looks like you really lack of luck...

The tags are not retroactively added to games aswell and only gets added to games still in development.

I have to disagree... Haven't done it recently, but time to time I had to report an old (completed or abandoned) game for a tagging error, and the tags were corrected.

 

[SinisterPortal]

not that it matters at all

why do you post then?

I'm also thinking you were browsing something else than games, as the game section currently as only 800 cuckold games. not 25,506.

yeah I browsed all content not just games

, but those are NOT sorted AND cuckold is not the most popular genre even in that 11 genre sample. also there's ~100 or so other genres, so there's really no reason to think this isn't 8% or even less of the total.

No, it's not just "11 genre sample", it's 11 most searched tags and NTR is the most popular among them. Why are you so sure? You are so unapologetic, but you have no source to back your claims. I can back up my statement:

You must be registered to see the links

can you?

 

[woody554]

Why are you so sure? You are so unapologetic, but you have no source to back your claims. I can back up my statement:

You must be registered to see the links

can you?

because I was literally looking at the numbers on dlsite while I was writing the reply.

and now you're 'backing your claims' by posting something else than the dlsite that was supposed to be your evidence but instead proved you wrong?? that's not "baking your claim" that's mining internet for quotes to fit your claim.

 

[SinisterPortal]

because I was literally looking at the numbers on dlsite while I was writing the reply.

and now you're 'backing your claims' by posting something else than the dlsite that was supposed to be your evidence but instead proved you wrong?? that's not "baking your claim" that's mining internet for quotes to fit your claim.

what numbers you were looking at, show us

 

[woody554]

what numbers you were looking at, show us

the dlsite page you took your screenshot from. jesus christ you're useless.

 

[morphnet]

That depends as I specified in an earlier post that I limit my observation to F95, so your last statement isn't really contradicting my observation.

Except what it really means is you limit your observations to parts of F95 and only at certain times. This leaves big gaps in what is happening on F95 in different areas and different times. On top of that, observing F95 would also mean you notice that many members here rely on outside sources for content.

They were able to direct others to / and get content from so many other sources because it was already popular and spread out so much in 2017 across different sites and communities.

You also didn't address

This shows that in 2017 there was a substantial fanbase across the largest / best known sites already. It also means that those following it and those making games started long before 2017, if by 2017 they already had a large following because they didn't grow that large in just a year or so.

If they were already on all those sites and this one, it means that there was a growing popularity long before 2017 and that by 2017 it was already very popular to be on so many sites and supported by so many communities.

Let's be honest for every "fetish", recognized by the masses or not, there are fans and content, we are not really discussing that... we are discussing when and how this fetish made it's way in the top rankings of content both in games and discussions here on F95... or atleast I thought that is what we did?!

Nope, the title is "become so popular" not "become the most popular" and the OP was... well... clearly devoid of thought, so no elaboration there, plus the poster was clearly baiting, they made the title question vague as possible and they haven't posted since.

 

[SinisterPortal]

the dlsite page you took your screenshot from. jesus christ you're useless.

Those numbers are number of works in each genre, not how popular they are among users. Let me quote my original message and emphasize that part. Please read carefully what other people write before calling them 'useless'. This makes you yourself look not very clever.

I did a post about that in the summer but I'll repeat myself - if you go to DLsite the tags are sorted by popularity among users. And the most popular one is NTR (translated as 'cuckold' by google page translator)
View attachment 5487569

 

[woody554]

Those numbers are number of works in each genre, not how popular they are among users. Let me quote my original message and emphasize that part. Please read carefully what other people write before calling them 'useless'. This makes you yourself look not very clever.

I quoted that same fucking comment with the same fucking screenshot. which would be obvious if YOU had read my post. that's is why you're useless.

 

[SinisterPortal]

hurr durr

alright bro, chill, forget about it okay? clearly these matters are too difficult for you to comprehend, I understand..

 

[morphnet]

why do you post then?


yeah I browsed all content not just games


No, it's not just "11 genre sample", it's 11 most searched tags and NTR is the most popular among them. Why are you so sure? You are so unapologetic, but you have no source to back your claims. I can back up my statement:

You must be registered to see the links

can you?

Ok you post reddit, I'll post from the horses mouth (so to speak).

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

There results from a dlsite survey, done by dlsite, posted by dlsite and you guessed it.... about dlsite!

 

[SinisterPortal]

surveys

biased
the ranking I showed is based on how frequently each tag is searched on the site - this is more reliable data than what some random 26k people voted for

in 2023 search based ranking also had NTR in the top:

You must be registered to see the links

PS the comments under the post are hilarious

 

[Cajun Fox]

 

[Evangelion-01]

Are you using modern day numbers? Because LCL was published in 1928 privately and 1959/1960 publicly in the US/UK respectively, and numbers of the population have increased since those days as well as factoring in the change in public perception of morality back then too, both have to be taken into account rather than just 'one number higher'.

Since 1960 in the UK population has increased by approximately 16.9 million (from 52.4 million to 69.3 million), for the US since 1959 the population has increased 154 million (from 177 million to 331 million). If you are using modern political memoir units sold then you have a far more increased market of consumers which would affect the comparison.

Assuming the 3 million were UK sales, we would therefore get 5.75% of the population in 3 months alone and remember, this is not counting subsequent sales after the initial 3 months.

Assuming the 3 million were US sales, we would therefore get 1.69% of the population in 3 months alone and remember, this is not counting subsequent sales after the initial 3 months.

We're also ignoring the morality issue since morality is subjective and cannot be quantified, but the fact it sold such numbers despite 1959 being a very conservative, traditional, christian morality generation in both the US and the UK would also be a contributing factor, a political memoir is not subject to moralistic censure, thus the comparison fails I feel on 3 grounds:

1) Population was smaller back then in comparison to modern population figures, thus a comparison between ancient population figures vs modern has to account for the rise in population that compromise the market share that could purchase the product.

2) The morality barrier was so existent and formidable back then that in comparing such a work of yesteryear to a modern moral audience we do a disservice to the effort it took to achieve such numbers against that barrier, whereas a modern political memoir faces no such backlash.

3) A Book about a noble lady cheating on her war veteran disabled husband with the rugged estate and peasant gamekeeper is far different a field than modern political memoirs and thus near to an apples vs oranges comparison thereby. The more apt and modern equivalent today would perhaps be the 50 Shades of Grey series if a comparison had to be made but even then...that was more a BDSM work.

So why is a nearly 100 years old piece of literature anything important to compare to modern fetishes than?
You are pretty much disarming your own arguments with this you realise that... right?
I mean I could argue that the success of "90 shades of grey" would mean that BDSM should be the most famous fetish in the world if we go by your logic... like I said I never heard of that book so it's either a local thing to your country or just really niche.
And let's be honest these days morality or rather prudeness is on an ever high transcending literature and even affecting money as we can clearly see on Patreon.
I get your overall point but I still fail to see this as any form of proof for NTR being on the scale you made it seem to be wth your statements.

Except what it really means is you limit your observations to parts of F95 and only at certain times. This leaves big gaps in what is happening on F95 in different areas and different times. On top of that, observing F95 would also mean you notice that many members here rely on outside sources for content.

They were able to direct others to / and get content from so many other sources because it was already popular and spread out so much in 2017 across different sites and communities.

You also didn't address


If they were already on all those sites and this one, it means that there was a growing popularity long before 2017 and that by 2017 it was already very popular to be on so many sites and supported by so many communities.



Nope, the title is "become so popular" not "become the most popular" and the OP was... well... clearly devoid of thought, so no elaboration there, plus the poster was clearly baiting, they made the title question vague as possible and they haven't posted since.

Gues I can agree to your reason but it still feels like NTR only became vocally discussed in quantity on F95 rather recently this might be duo to the fact that the previous fan base was rather quiet but as it grew some started to actively propagate their fetish after joining. I mean there even were rule changes prohibiting such discussions in game threads anround 2020 as far as I recall.

 

[morphnet]

biased
the ranking I showed is based on how frequently each tag is searched on the site - this is more reliable data than what some random 26k people voted for

1) Strange the X account you like seems to love surveys...



2) Searching for a tag does NOT mean liking it, wanting to download it, 1 person 1 search per month etc. there is a reason for surveys...

3) 34,047


it's not that hard!

4) As for the X account you linked, you might want to go visit their page and see their posts for yourself... going off an X post with no context could end badly...

hint: you might want to pay attention to "general rankings" and specific rankings (games, videos, novels, illustrations, CG, etc.)
oh and their surveys...