VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

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Penfold Mole

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You know, the angle Atlas is holding the planet up is actually pretty impressive. It not really resting on his back. It should be rolling down at that angle, but his one hand is holding it in place.

Magnificent.

William can only hope to get gains that good.
Well, Atlas is supposed to be holding up the sky or "heavens", not a planet. The center of mass might not be in the geometric center of the visible sphere, because who the fuck knows where the center of mass of the "heavens" could be. :rolleyes: Just saying.... :sneaky:
 
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Turret

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I can only speak for myself. In case of WiAB disjoined and idiotic was the old version.

The new chapters 1-3 were good, but I didn't quite get where this was heading to. It felt like another slice of life story, only Leia's club and Fred's farm were a bit out of line and disturbing. But who cares how people make money, right? In some games, they run a brothel with student prostitutes right on the college campus grounds, using dorm bathrooms as gloryholes.

With Chapter 4, everything that came before in the new WiAB made sense in the light of the new information that was revealed about the criminal families, their confrontation, and the characters' place in that structure. Their actions now have motivation and reasons, and the dialogues - meaning. I like it.
Fine that you like it, personal taste, I loath this update so much I removed WIAB from my sig! It might be because I look with writer´s eyes on it and see how Ocean destroyed the character designs to fill the plot holes he created with soap opera mafiosi of the worst kind.
Even in the oldest versions of WIAB to new WIAB 1-3 it was an obvious fact that parts of the Zane family, e.g. Uncle Joe, engaged in semi- and illegal"enterprises". But it was also very clear it was a side theater and the legal undertakings were vastly bigger and the main focus.
The Zanes had internal problems, the rather serious feud between the older siblings with the younger sister, how the disparate family branches functioned together and Dylan/Helen trying to keep the criminal element in check. Then there were the external problems, rivals from both the legal and illegal competitors and the rising gang problem.
Dylan and Helen loved their kids, even when they exaspirated them and peace between the siblings and Kati was rare. Then Dylan fled because he and Leia had become closer than siblings should be and Kati used at least part of this secret to blackmail him. All this led to a situation of the lost son (and his girlfriend) returning home after a disaster hit and Leia called him.
This was underlined by many small bits and pieces of evidence during the game and that it was hard for Willi being away. He talked lovingly in WIAB 1 about how he often thought about home, the others and how he missed them.
This was a perfectly fine and fitting beginning and could have been kept like this even if Leia would have been removed as a LI to cut the incest arc away. The story fitted the characters and vice versa.

Now with this incredibly stupid rewrite the backstory and many events do not fit the characters any longer! One glaring example Helen. In the new WIAB 4 she went from loving, if sometimes taxed Mom to an ice-cold hardcore criminal. Willi and Leia were only raised for her future gain, no love lost on those two, Helen was at least co-responsible for the deaths of Willi and Leia´s parents (keeping him the sole living Grimaldi for their own gain) and it is very clear from WIAB 4 that Helen and Willi parted ways on less than amiable terms and she left him in prison for good.
There is no even partly feasable reason for Willi to ever return to Wollust! He would never crawl back to and for Helen, a person which hurt and betrayed him so much as the new storyline shows. It is also clear from the time since he left (around 7 years) that the assinine rules Ocean sucked out of his fingers are obviously not enforced where he lived, several people knew where he was.
The feud between Willi/Leia and Kati is now another big plothole. Kati is the blood daughter of Helen and Dylan, Willi and Leia two kids they only raise for later profits, they do not even like them. The first or second time the siblings would really harrass Kati the two would live through a blue wonder of punishment. Afterwards the two would never even look strangely at Kati again.
The Zanes are all now hardcore criminals and Willi, who grew up there, is completely baffled by this, another plothole big as a SUV. Shows that the old backstory is the real one. The new one is Ocean brownnosing Patreon to keep SG safe from banishment and is thrown together to at least partly plug the holes.
 

byaaahh

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Unless I'm misremembering, we know Helen learns of William going to prison, but there is no indication she actually visited him. He even mentions not using his phone call to call her because he didn't want to see her ashamed look.

Not sure how she is expected to do anything other than leave him to do his time.

Of all the Zanes, she seems the happiest he's back.
 

Dr.TSoni

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Unless I'm misremembering, we know Helen learns of William going to prison, but there is no indication she actually visited him.
In the scene where the feds illustrate the Zane family it is said that she went to visit him. And if you choose to reveal to Helen that Willy spoke about her with Leia it is made explicit that the last meeting between them (the prison) Helen ended with harsh words towards William
 

byaaahh

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In the scene where the feds illustrate the Zane family it is said that she went to visit him. And if you choose to reveal to Helen that Willy spoke about her with Leia it is made explicit that the last meeting between them (the prison) Helen ended with harsh words towards William
There's a lot of bipolarity in this new chapter.

Helen hates William, then starts doting on him when he returns.
Miru expressing that William getting involved is a bad idea, only to go collect debt with Emilio.

Getting whiplash just trying to keep up with the switching up.
 

Thriller

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Waited 18 months just to finish it in 6-7 hours.. It's like preparing a meal for yourself for 2 hours and eating it under 5 minutes... Except I didn't prepare the update, Ocean did. And what a great update he made.

Living in his universe, involving myself into its characters lives makes me so happy.

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I dunno man, there has to be an award show event type of thing annually for these vn's. I'm sure Ocean will sweep it with every update.
OK after reading the thread I saw the general conception of this update and I wanna say, I also didn't like the family relations getting changed and I still don't but.. actually there is no but. We are much far into the development process for this kind of change happening. Not that the game story progressed that much but it's been like what? Almost 7 years since this game originally released?

I guess he didn't want to deal with the repercussions from Patreon etc. about incest being forbidden and risk losing funding for WIAB again which losing him money right now AFAIK. That might change after this update. Hopefully for the better.

Or less likely reason is that he no longer feels comfortable about writing and posing/rendering about it. That happens to some creators. Rather than completely abandon it, this change might have been necessary for it to continue in a healthy manner.
 

yossa999

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This is how the presuppositions work. :)
There is no even partly feasable reason for Willi to ever return to Wollust!
Python:
d "Leia."
mi "If I remember correctly, she was your sister?"
d "No. We grew up in the same household, but we're not related."
d "At one point we had a bond I'd describe as much closer than family."
The reason is named: the bond which is much closer than family. You just don't like it. But it's feasible enough and makes the story roll.
One might ask, why then he didn't return earlier if the bond was so close? Well, do you know, what Helen said him in the prison? Maybe him, staying away from Zanes was the condition the Families let him live. An important peice of story isn't revealed yet.
He would never crawl back to and for Helen, a person which hurt and betrayed him so much as the new storyline shows.
Yep. Or maybe she saved him because the condition of him staying alive was that he serve his time in prison as punishment. Maybe he was framed because that was the punishment the Families had arranged? Maybe Helen's visit was a guarantee that he understood the conditions and agreed to them and there was nothing she could do for him?

BTW, we were just talking with RNasc about the Banshee series, it's literally the same trope, there the MC was framed and put into prison by his boss, because he "seduced" his daughter and was about to run away with her and the diamonds stolen from the boss. And the boss made sure that his "vacation" in the prison will be quite unpleasant.

I think, I recall from old WiAB something about Willie got beaten in the prison almost all the time, and his panic fear of returning to the prison again, right?

Betrayed and hurt... Well, that's just one possible interpretation of why she did it.
Willi and Leia two kids they only raise for later profits, they do not even like them. The first or second time the siblings would really harrass Kati the two would live through a blue wonder of punishment. Afterwards the two would never even look strangely at Kati again.
Python:
mi "It sounds dangerous. What if they don't exile you and instead go for a more permanent solution?"
d "Nah, as much pain as I caused everyone here... They love me, and I don't think they can afford to lose Leia."
Willie belives that they love him at least. :KEK:
And even this short "sweet family memory" of him fighting with Leia under Dylan's supervision hints that the Zanes didn't let their children grow up weak. So maybe they encouraged Katie to stand up for herself and not get involved in their squabbles. However, if you remember, Willie got punishments for bullying Katie, for example, when they locked her in Gina's cafe. He himself recalled that he was grounded for a month or something like that. Quite an adequate punishment from parents who do not differentiate between their own and foster children.
The Zanes are all now hardcore criminals and Willi, who grew up there, is completely baffled by this, another plothole big as a SUV.
So before Dylan was a mechanic and Helen was a housewife right? And who was uncle Joe? Did Joe and Dylan have some common business? Who was Leia before? Why do I have a feeling that plothole, that was before is patched now.

Anyway, to each their own. You don't like the changes, I didn't like the old version. Only time will tell if the new version will be succeeded.
 
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Hextorr

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ok it probably was already asked, but i've tried searching the comments, using the search function and cannot seem to find it if so. with all the changes happened, is the I-patch being worked on? anyone know?
 
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byaaahh

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I guess he didn't want to deal with the repercussions from Patreon etc. about incest being forbidden and risk losing funding for WIAB again which losing him money right now AFAIK. That might change after this update. Hopefully for the better.
The funny thing is, he already felt the repercussions from Patreon. WiaB was removed and will likely never be published there again. The only issue WiaB could cause is if we find out Nika is related to William (which Ocean has confirmed he isn't) and starts banging his half siblings in SG, nuking that from Patreon too.

Steam doesn't give a shit about incest, he could have kept trucking along with the "only William/Leia are related", make it so they don't engage in sexual activities just in case and certainly don't have them procreate, ending up with their offspring appearing in SG.

Butchering it after the Patreon nuke is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube, completely futile.
 

yossa999

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ok it probably was already asked, but i've tried searching the comments, using the search function and cannot seem to find it if so. with all the changes happened, is the I-patch being worked on? anyone know?
Yep, but it works only after the furry patch, or F-patch as we call it. :Kappa:

Bro, the whole latest shitstorm in the thread is about the plot change that made I-patch the Irrelevant patch. There are no more something like I- in the game and you won't fix it with a simple substitution like "landlady->big momma." So, I don't know if someone is going to update it.
 
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Assman_6969

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After this headache of an update the title is needed to change to Who the fuck knows what began and why but does anyone even give a shit to find out anymore?!!!! How bout you drop this and just focus on Summer's Gone fully now? AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST KEEP THE PACE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT AND DO NOT GO AND CHANGE ANYTHING OR ANYMORE REDOS. JUST ALL BOUT SUMMER'S GONE AND ACTUALLY MOVE ONE ALONG WITH IT'S STORY CAUSE THAT ONE IS BETTER ALL AROUND AND NEEDS TO BE THE HIGHLIGHTED FOCUS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DO BOTH, LEAVE THIS FOR AWHILE AND JUST COMPLETE SUMMER OR ANY SUPPORTERS WILL LIKELY FIND ELSEWHERE TO GIVE THEIR $$!
 

RNasc4444

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The reason is named: the bond which is much closer than family. You just don't like it. But it's feasible enough and makes the story roll.
I think you're being too forgiving and cavalier about this. His departure and return are basically what kickstarts the story. It has to be ironclad. His motives have to be clear and powerful. This is just the first of several hurdles I can't get through with this new version.

You know how I felt about the previous version. I could easily buy William leaving (taboo, shame) but never the reason he came back. It wasn't strong enough for him to leave what he had behind and face the demons of the past. And this is when they were family. When he had a certain degree of duty and responsibility to his own blood. Imagine how I feel about it now. I can't even buy the reason he left, let alone the reason he'd go back to the non relative low life degenerate criminals that were involved in his family's death and raised him as an asset to be leveraged.

Why would you ever leave behind a life of freedom, peace and happiness to return to that awful world? Like how retarded do you have to be to make that choice? I'm stuck at this point. And if I can't go along with this how am I supposed to go along with everything that follows? It's not good enough for me. I have higher standards for what constitutes a reasonable story :(

Maybe at some point someone here can spin a theory or take that makes this more palatable for me to digest but this was one of my hangs ups with the previous version that wasn't fixed in this one.
 

Maccabbee

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There's a lot of bipolarity in this new chapter.

Helen hates William, then starts doting on him when he returns.
Miru expressing that William getting involved is a bad idea, only to go collect debt with Emilio.

Getting whiplash just trying to keep up with the switching up.
Did you even play the game? William was always Helen's favorite, even after Katie was born. She had harsh words with him because he ran away, and the next she hears, a couple of years later, was when he was in jail. She has a bad temper. It would even be justified in that case, wouldn't it? That doesn't mean she doesn't care about him. WTF?

I yell at people all the time (not a good thing), but that doesn't mean I don't love or care about them.
 

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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After this headache of an update the title is needed to change to Who the fuck knows what began and why but does anyone even give a shit to find out anymore?!!!! How bout you drop this and just focus on Summer's Gone fully now? AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST KEEP THE PACE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT AND DO NOT GO AND CHANGE ANYTHING OR ANYMORE REDOS. JUST ALL BOUT SUMMER'S GONE AND ACTUALLY MOVE ONE ALONG WITH IT'S STORY CAUSE THAT ONE IS BETTER ALL AROUND AND NEEDS TO BE THE HIGHLIGHTED FOCUS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DO BOTH, LEAVE THIS FOR AWHILE AND JUST COMPLETE SUMMER OR ANY SUPPORTERS WILL LIKELY FIND ELSEWHERE TO GIVE THEIR $$!

Yes yes! Let it all out! Purge those demons! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Venting is good. Feel better now? :p

(Yo Mav check out what this guy wrote!!!)
 

byaaahh

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I think you're being too forgiving and cavalier about this. His departure and return are basically what kickstarts the story. It has to be ironclad. His motives have to be clear and powerful. This is just the first of several hurdles I can't get through with this new version.

You know how I felt about the previous version. I could easily buy William leaving (taboo, shame) but never the reason he came back. It wasn't strong enough for him to leave what he had behind and face the demons of the past. And this is when they were family. When he had a certain degree of duty and responsibility to his own blood. Imagine how I feel about it now. I can't even buy the reason he left, let alone the reason he'd go back to the non relative low life degenerate criminals that were involved in his family's death and raised him as an asset to be leveraged.

Why would you ever leave behind a life of freedom, peace and happiness to return to that awful world? Like how retarded do you have to be to make that choice? I'm stuck at this point. And if I can't go along with this how am I supposed to go along with everything that follows? It's not good enough for me. I have higher standards for what constitutes a reasonable story :(

Maybe at some point someone here can spin a theory or take that makes this more palatable for me to digest but this was one of my hangs ups with the previous version that wasn't fixed in this one.
Let's not forget, William is now worried about potential exile by the Families, more so than death.

It's not like he just returned from a self-imposed exile or anything...
 
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yossa999

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I think you're being too forgiving and cavalier about this. His departure and return are basically what kickstarts the story. It has to be ironclad. His motives have to be clear and powerful. This is just the first of several hurdles I can't get through with this new version.

You know how I felt about the previous version. I could easily buy William leaving (taboo, shame) but never the reason he came back. It wasn't strong enough for him to leave what he had behind and face the demons of the past. And this is when they were family. When he had a certain degree of duty and responsibility to his own blood. Imagine how I feel about it now. I can't even buy the reason he left, let alone the reason he'd go back to the non relative low life degenerate criminals that were involved in his family's death and raised him as an asset to be leveraged.

Why would you ever leave behind a life of freedom, peace and happiness to return to that awful world? Like how retarded do you have to be to make that choice? I'm stuck at this point. And if I can't go along with this how am I supposed to go along with everything that follows? It's not good enough for me. I have higher standards for what constitutes a reasonable story :(

Maybe at some point someone here can spin a theory or take that makes this more palatable for me to digest but this was one of my hangs ups with the previous version that wasn't fixed in this one.
Don't pout, you still have SG and... a few more threads for constructive criticism.
The WiAB ship has sailed to another direction.
By the way, I fondled Helen's milkers! :giggle:
 

byaaahh

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Did you even play the game? William was always Helen's favorite, even after Katie was born. She had harsh words with him because he ran away, and the next she hears, a couple of years later, was when he was in jail. She has a bad temper. It would even be justified in that case, wouldn't it? That doesn't mean she doesn't care about him. WTF?

I yell at people all the time (not a good thing), but that doesn't mean I don't love or care about them.
Actually, he was arrested a month after he left, just as he was about to return, he was framed. Don't know where you got a couple of years from.
 

Maccabbee

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Actually, he was arrested a month after he left, just as he was about to return, he was framed. Don't know where you got a couple of years from.
I don't know, I though he was dating the crazy chick that set him up for a while. The high blood pressure from reading all this crazy shit this thread has become is blocking my memories.
 

byaaahh

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I don't know, I though he was dating the crazy chick that set him up for a while. The high blood pressure from reading all this crazy shit this thread has become is blocking my memories.
He tells Leia it was a month after he left, so Helen knew he was in prison and she only visited him once in two years.

Not really the actions of someone who has forgiven her supposed favourite.
 
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Maccabbee

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He tells Leia it was a month after he left, so Helen knew he was in prison and she only visited him once in two years.

Not really the actions of someone who has forgiven her supposed favourite.
Could be protecting him, too, though. They're being watched. And she's still pissed.
 
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