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VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

4.00 star(s) 236 Votes

LHDLLB

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Oct 3, 2019
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This is the reason for me, right there.

I don't hate Leia, but she is my least favorite character, by a large margin. She also has this haughty, undeserved arrogance about her that pisses me off. Now, she might soften later on and I'll like her a little more, but this is how things are for me right now.
Oh don't get me wrong, is more than a fair reason to not like a character or person. My "problem" is the notion that Leia is some sort of utimate evil because she is facilitates sex, killeed a harasser and is seeling weapons to third world countries. Sure, she is not a good person but I don't see how she is worse than a literal mob family.
 
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Chillout1984

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Oh don't get me wrong, is more than a fair reason to not like a character or person. My "problem" is the notion that Leia is some sort of utimate evil because she is facilitates sex, killeed a harasser and is seeling weapons to third world countries. Sure, she is not a good person but I don't see how she is worse than a literal mob family.
Imo out of those 3 only the selling weapons could be considered truly evil. Facilitating sex isn't evil (except I do agree that she does it dubious manner) and killing an harasser is grey area for me. The reason he's gone is that he was harassing multiple times and if I'm not mistaken has been warned before. More than enough reason to get rid of him permanently imo.
 
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Dr.TSoni

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Sure, she is not a good person but I don't see how she is worse than a literal mob family.
This is largely due to the changes made since chapter 4. Up until chapter 3 there was some disapproval of what Leia did but she was still a member of the family, now it is not clear why Helen and Dylan do not have similar means and methods.
 

LHDLLB

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Imo out of those 3 only the seeing weapons could be considered truly evil. Facilitating sex isn't evil (except I do agree that she does it dubious manner) and killing an harasser is grey area for me. The reason he's gone is that he was harassing multiple times and if I'm not mistaken has been warned before. More than enough reason to get rid of him permanently imo.
prostitution is a dirty business but I got the impression that Leia does it as clean as possible, and on that matter so is pornography but we are given a choice to become a porn producer and bring oir girlfriend into it. I Agree on the Jorge situation too. As for the weapons, there are a lot of ways at looking at it. None of it make it good though and is not what I am arguing anyway. I could say that is something that countries does all the time, that she is selling abroad só is not like she is arming criminals, that she is seeling to rebels with a just cause, dosen't matter, I am not trying to justify her actions, Leia is not a good person. But does it makes her worse ? Feels to me like a arbitrary morality line that dosen't make sense. To ke people just don't like Leia's personality, with is completely fair, and then paint the picture of her as this personification of evil when we got plenty of sugestition and more explicit information that Leia is no worse than others characters with a more fun personality that dosen't suffers this hate
 

LHDLLB

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This is largely due to the changes made since chapter 4. Up until chapter 3 there was some disapproval of what Leia did but she was still a member of the family, now it is not clear why Helen and Dylan do not have similar means and methods.
Not really, the Zanes were never clean. All of Leia's operations are in fact not hers but Uncle Joe. The Zanes always had criminal afiliations, maybe not full mob family with codes about not fucking your not sister, but always had criminal afiliations.
 

Chillout1984

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prostitution is a dirty business but I got the impression that Leia does it as clean as possible, and on that matter so is pornography but we are given a choice to become a porn producer and bring or girlfriend to it. I Agree on the Jorge situation too. As for the weapons, there are a lot of ways at looking at it. None of it make it good though and is not what I am arguing anyway. I could say that is something that countries does all the time, that she is selling abroad só is not like she is arming criminals, that she is seeling to rebels with a just cause, dosen't matter, I am not trying to justify her actions, Leia is not a good person. But does it makes her worse ? Feels to me like a arbitrary morality line that dosen't make sense. To ke people just don't like Leia's personality, with is completely fair, and then paint the picture of her as this personification of evil when we got plenty of sugestition and more explicit information that Leia is no worse than others characters with a more fun personality that dosen't suffers this hate
Both the porn business and prostitution through bordellos/stripclubs/whatever you want to call them in general are quite clean when correctly regulated (which at least is the case for the porn industry in the US as far as I'm aware and I've also read there are usually inspections at strip clubs). There are of course bad apples, but you have those in every industry.

You are correct that Leia does it as clean as possible and unless she's acting, she does really care about "her" girls. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I got the feeling that her girls only are prostitutes if they want to. If they don't, it seems she's just fine with them working non-sexual jobs at her business. The dubious part I mentioned of course, is that if a girl decides to quit, she probably also (near) immediately homeless.
 

X2JZcf

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Jun 4, 2020
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prostitution is a dirty business but I got the impression that Leia does it as clean as possible, and on that matter so is pornography but we are given a choice to become a porn producer and bring or girlfriend to it. I Agree on the Jorge situation too. As for the weapons, there are a lot of ways at looking at it. None of it make it good though and is not what I am arguing anyway. I could say that is something that countries does all the time, that she is selling abroad só is not like she is arming criminals, that she is seeling to rebels with a just cause, dosen't matter, I am not trying to justify her actions, Leia is not a good person. But does it makes her worse ? Feels to me like a arbitrary morality line that dosen't make sense. To ke people just don't like Leia's personality, with is completely fair, and then paint the picture of her as this personification of evil when we got plenty of sugestition and more explicit information that Leia is no worse than others characters with a more fun personality that dosen't suffers this hate
We're gonna ditch everyone for Monica and the busty FBI agent.

1756563662727.jpeg
1756563674407.jpeg
 

Maviarab

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The dubious part I mentioned of course, is that if a girl decides to quit, she probably also (near) immediately homeless.
Which like health insurance in the states...makes it designed so the girls don't quit ;)

Ofc she looks after her girls...they make her money. You don't damage or mistreat your own merchandise. She isn't some benevelent mother figure. Do people not actually read the dialogue and look properly at the renders?

They are fucking terrified of her.
 

Chillout1984

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Which like health insurance in the states...makes it designed so the girls don't quit ;)

Ofc she looks after her girls...they make her money. You don't damage or mistreat your own merchandise. She isn't some benevelent mother figure. Do people not actually read the dialogue and look properly at the renders?

They are fucking terrified of her.
Yes they are terrified of her, that you easily notice. I was more talking about Leia's expressions when she was talking about them. It didn't look to me as if she was talking about merchandise, but more as if she was talking about her sisters or daughters or something.
 

X2JZcf

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Oh don't get me wrong, is more than a fair reason to not like a character or person. My "problem" is the notion that Leia is some sort of utimate evil because she is facilitates sex, killeed a harasser and is seeling weapons to third world countries. Sure, she is not a good person but I don't see how she is worse than a literal mob family.
Leia brainwashed William into breaking up with Monica. Not our bro. :illuminati:
 

Maviarab

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Yes they are terrified of her, that you easily notice. I was more talking about Leia's expressions when she was talking about them. It didn't look to me as if she was talking about merchandise, but more as if she was talking about her sisters or daughters or something.
Which if was the 'actual' case, then they wouldn't be terrified of her...would they?
 

Chillout1984

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Which if was the 'actual' case, then they wouldn't be terrified of her...would they?
Sure they would, if they know Leia's reputation and/or Leia's acting like a cold-hearted bitch while she's around them.

Leia wouldn't be the first boss of which employees are scared off (mostly to not want them to leave or to let them make as little mistakes as possible), while in reality she cares about them as if they were loved ones.
 

X2JZcf

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Can’t wait when Leia does this to the working girl who slept with William. And we can finally bring her down.
 
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Maviarab

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Sure they would, if they know Leia's reputation and/or Leia's acting like a cold-hearted bitch while she's around them.

Leia wouldn't be the first boss of which employees are scared off (mostly to not want them to leave or to let them make as little mistakes as possible), while in reality she cares about them as if they were loved ones.
:FacePalm: :FacePalm:
 

Chillout1984

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I could be mistaken, but I believe it was even Leia who said that it's much better for the girls to be terrified but work for her where they're safe and where she can protect them, instead of being out in the streets where they're in danger. Although I do admit I could've also got this from another story. Like I said, this isn't the first boss I've read about that acts like Leia.
 

LHDLLB

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Oct 3, 2019
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Both the porn business and prostitution through bordellos/stripclubs/whatever you want to call them in general are quite clean when correctly regulated (which at least is the case for the porn industry in the US as far as I'm aware and I've also read there are usually inspections at strip clubs). There are of course bad apples, but you have those in every industry.

You are correct that Leia does it as clean as possible and unless she's acting, she does really care about "her" girls. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I got the feeling that her girls only are prostitutes if they want to. If they don't, it seems she's just fine with them working non-sexual jobs at her business. The dubious part I mentioned of course, is that if a girl decides to quit, she probably also (near) immediately homeless.
It can be clean, what I meant was that is a easy environment for explanation and violence. Much more than yoir avarage 9h to 17h job.

We're gonna ditch everyone for Monica and the busty FBI agent.

View attachment 5201235
View attachment 5201236
MONICA ALL THE WAY

Which like health insurance in the states...makes it designed so the girls don't quit ;)

Ofc she looks after her girls...they make her money. You don't damage or mistreat your own merchandise. She isn't some benevelent mother figure. Do people not actually read the dialogue and look properly at the renders?

They are fucking terrified of her.
Have you seen how some sex works are exploitated around the world ? Leia conducds her bunisess in a much clean manner. That is not to say that it is perfect or that is not a bunisess in the end of the day. Is not a house for women in need is a whorehouse, why it should be anything but a whorehouse ? And we see girls talk about her in a grateful and even awe tone too. Two things can be true at once.
 
4.00 star(s) 236 Votes