VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

yeah, but to me, it was more of a bonus for her. hoping there might be a very small chance Monica would let something slip, and also showing MC how messed up the accident and its investigation were.

Nothing showed that there was anything really messed up about the investigation. Leia could've simply gotten Katie (earlier) or Willi (currently) to talk with Abigail, Helen's friend. No pressure at all, and they learned almost immediately someone from above with connections in the feds shut the case down. Nothing that Mon said was important, and Leia knew that. Leia also already had Katie in her pocket and Mon is Katie's friend. Katie and Leia already know about Asavera, Leia already knows the big players that ABigail refers to. So I'm not buying Leia's strategy here, other than she wanted to mess both Willi and Mon up. She's even clearer later - she wants Willi to seduce Mon to have an insider for future intel. It's just prep for that goal.

Spoiler: Talking with Leia about Mon, Leia knew everything already, completely staged

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The other side of Leia is that she can't make her mind up. Logically, she know she needs Willi's muscle (symbolising his overt action taking chadness) to enact her plans. Emotionally she just wants to beat him up until there's a resolution in the midst of all the fighting.

d "Why the fuck did you even call me? Tell me all that crap about you needing me, and now you say 'I don't trust you'?"

This goes through all Leia's choices - her logic is losing to her emotions even as she tries to have a consistently cool, collected mask. The scene in the nightclub is a great example of that - she tries to be collected but inside she's chaos.

If It look at the Mon situation from this angle with these two considerations, Leia is testing how much control she has over William, how much he is willing to abase himself, and how much punsihment she can inflict on him. None of these goals have anything to do with helping Helen. Getting Mon as an insider is to primarily help Leia circumvent the police, not to get info about Helen. Putting WIlliam through her challenges doesn't build the trust they need to solve anything. At every point, Leia undermines Willi, despite calling him.

I think it's important to recognise that Leia is trying to sabtoage Williams return far more than anyone, and is far more antagonistic to him than Katie is. The way Katie, Leia, Dylan and Scarlet ALL know about the illegal activity, ALL know about the nightclub and pimping, ALL know about Asavera etc. and no one is doing anything as simple as asking Abigail directly like William did in a day or so, suggests they have a pretty clear idea of what's going on regardless of what Willi finds out. Willi is there not just because he can be trusted not to be part of it, but because he can sniff out the incosistencies that they're too close to tell.

 

[UnrivaledSuperHottie]

Helen (NSFW #1) can anybody repost this?

 

[Doomyk]

There is smthing,that i don't understand correctly last chapter.Conversation with Dylan.He said that he and Helen had a lot of ups and downs in their relationships.And losing two....That part of losing two i don't understand.Two children or what?

 

[Mortarion]

There is smthing,that i don't understand correctly last chapter.Conversation with Dylan.He said that he and Helen had a lot of ups and downs in their relationships.And losing two....That part of losing two i don't understand.Two children or what?

Most likely I'm wrong, but from the first moment on I saw this statement this was - to me - referred to the complete family and the spoken about 2nd one was - again, in my opinion - the other family member uncle Joey(?) who is returning soon from prision.

But I get the point from your PoV that this could also mean that there's maybe a miscarriage.

 

[HiP1]

Nothing showed that there was anything really messed up about the investigation. Leia could've simply gotten Katie (earlier) or Willi (currently) to talk with Abigail, Helen's friend. No pressure at all, and they learned almost immediately someone from above with connections in the feds shut the case down. Nothing that Mon said was important, and Leia knew that. Leia also already had Katie in her pocket and Mon is Katie's friend. Katie and Leia already know about Asavera, Leia already knows the big players that ABigail refers to. So I'm not buying Leia's strategy here, other than she wanted to mess both Willi and Mon up. She's even clearer later - she wants Willi to seduce Mon to have an insider for future intel. It's just prep for that goal.

Spoiler: Talking with Leia about Mon, Leia knew everything already, completely staged

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The other side of Leia is that she can't make her mind up. Logically, she know she needs Willi's muscle (symbolising his overt action taking chadness) to enact her plans. Emotionally she just wants to beat him up until there's a resolution in the midst of all the fighting.

d "Why the fuck did you even call me? Tell me all that crap about you needing me, and now you say 'I don't trust you'?"

This goes through all Leia's choices - her logic is losing to her emotions even as she tries to have a consistently cool, collected mask. The scene in the nightclub is a great example of that - she tries to be collected but inside she's chaos.

If It look at the Mon situation from this angle with these two considerations, Leia is testing how much control she has over William, how much he is willing to abase himself, and how much punsihment she can inflict on him. None of these goals have anything to do with helping Helen. Getting Mon as an insider is to primarily help Leia circumvent the police, not to get info about Helen. Putting WIlliam through her challenges doesn't build the trust they need to solve anything. At every point, Leia undermines Willi, despite calling him.

I think it's important to recognise that Leia is trying to sabtoage Williams return far more than anyone, and is far more antagonistic to him than Katie is. The way Katie, Leia, Dylan and Scarlet ALL know about the illegal activity, ALL know about the nightclub and pimping, ALL know about Asavera etc. and no one is doing anything as simple as asking Abigail directly like William did in a day or so, suggests they have a pretty clear idea of what's going on regardless of what Willi finds out. Willi is there not just because he can be trusted not to be part of it, but because he can sniff out the incosistencies that they're too close to tell.

interesting points, thanks.

but i'll have to disagree on some

even if Katie could go ask, she is still part of that family, and she is still under Leia's thumb (even if Leia doesn't trust her). There is no way any cop worth their weight would disclose anything to any of them. MC just coming back, and being Helen's favorite, has a very different status from any of them from the points of view of cops, and especially Abigail. He literally came back because of Helen's accident after more than a decade having his own life elsewhere.
and all you said only reinforces me in thinking Leia wanted to provoke a strong reaction in Monica to try to unveil anything else she could have. honestly, corrupting her current boyfriend and blackmailing him is much easier than making Monica like MC enough that she would confide in him
the fact that Leia is antagonizing MC at every turn, to me, it only reinforces the idea that he was her very last resort that she didn't want to use at all cost, that's how desperate she was in finding out the truth.

 

[HiP1]

There is smthing,that i don't understand correctly last chapter.Conversation with Dylan.He said that he and Helen had a lot of ups and downs in their relationships.And losing two....That part of losing two i don't understand.Two children or what?

might be referring to MC and Leia. after her depression and near death like state, she wasn't the same anymore and barely registers any family member. i think Dylan feels like they lost her too.

 

[Doomyk]

A little observetaion.At the first meeting, Miru tactfully goes outside and gives Leia time to talk with William. Which is very different from the old version of the game, where Leia literally throws Mira out into the air.But this is in strong contrast to the first meeting with Monica, when Monica throws Ben out into the air.
In general,i have a feeling that the new Monica received some features of the dev's work from the old Leia, but the new Leia.... In the old version of the game, William mentioned some crazy obsessed princess who set him up and he ended up in prison. Do you see the dots?It seems that new Leia has that personality.And this plot leads us to William’s prison. Only this time William was not framed (I don’t think Leia would have done this, at least in the past), and the fact that William took the blame completely on himself did not frame Leia.At least, this is how I see events unfolding to show the ambiguity of William's actions and lead to some catharsis with Leia.

 

[Mortarion]

might be referring to MC and Leia. after her depression and near death like state, she wasn't the same anymore and barely registers any family member. i think Dylan feels like they lost her too.

That was also coming to my mind, and would be valid if you only consoder the past. But from my understanding this this even more unlikely, as my rubbish that was posted from me a little bit above - no offense!

I have this opinion because Leia is still present and participate in the family life. Leia my be distanced, more than less to busy with her work to join the big family breakfast every day but she is still there - contraire to William who was during a night an fog action vanishing into thin air. She may be not so close to the others than they had wished, but this is . in my opinion far from "lose someone"

In the old version of the game, William mentioned some crazy obsessed princess who set him up and he ended up in prison. Do you see the dots?It seems that new Leia has that personality.And this plot leads us to William’s prison. Only this time William was not framed (I don’t think Leia would have done this, at least in the past), and the fact that William took the blame completely on himself did not frame Leia

Sorry no, just no. Leia was way to surprised about Williams vacation behind Swedish curtains to have something to do with his part of Williams past.

 

[BobTheDuck]

interesting points, thanks.

but i'll have to disagree on some

even if Katie could go ask, she is still part of that family, and she is still under Leia's thumb (even if Leia doesn't trust her). There is no way any cop worth their weight would disclose anything to any of them. MC just coming back, and being Helen's favorite, has a very different status from any of them from the points of view of cops, and especially Abigail. He literally came back because of Helen's accident after more than a decade having his own life elsewhere.
and all you said only reinforces me in thinking Leia wanted to provoke a strong reaction in Monica to try to unveil anything else she could have. honestly, corrupting her current boyfriend and blackmailing him is much easier than making Monica like MC enough that she would confide in him
the fact that Leia is antagonizing MC at every turn, to me, it only reinforces the idea that he was her very last resort that she didn't want to use at all cost, that's how desperate she was in finding out the truth.

The point I'm making is that Leia already spoke to Monica, it's in the script. Mon didn't tell Willi anything that she hadn't told Leia. Leia she knew that Monica and the investigation had been stood down by Abigial, who is Helen's best friend. Katie is Helen's daughter, just the same as Willi. THere's nothing special about Willi having been away as far as Monica, Abigail or the police is concerned, that doesn't make him innocent or reliable, especially as he spent part of that time in prison. The police can check his history out - and would - considering Leia's suspicious activity, and Joe's current incarceration. As far as the police are concerned, Willi is part of a potentially criminal family, and they know something's going on. Abigail meeting with Willi is as much a breach of protocol as meeting with Leia about a closed case. Stating that Willi is a fresh face means nothing to the police, only to Abigail, who might feel like Willi deserves to know as much as Leia and Dylan do.

*Interesting fact - looking through the script, Willi calls Abigail 'Angel Spencer' at one point, and Leia corrects him. I wonder if there's a history there.

Spoiler: 'Angel'

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Easiest thing to get info from Mon would be to get Katie to take Mon out drinking with Zoey, they hang out all the time. Mon would likely spill more in that scenario.

Leia is not desperate to find out the truth - her desire to be strong and independant clouds every decision she makes. Willi is a thorn in her side in this regard, and she's making foolish decisions if she wants the truth. Both she and Abigail talk about people other than Asavera over Willi's head. It sounds like Leia and Abigail both know enough. So why send Willi on wild goose chases? Leia has a whole oranisation of people she pays, and she doesn't trust Willi as much as she trusts Emilio. Emilio's helping her do illegal things, and she doesn't even want Willi knowing she owns a nightclub.

Spoiler: Dialogue

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[Maviarab]

is there a sex with the mom in game?

 

[HiP1]

The point I'm making is that Leia already spoke to Monica, it's in the script. Mon didn't tell Willi anything that she hadn't told Leia. Leia she knew that Monica and the investigation had been stood down by Abigial, who is Helen's best friend. Katie is Helen's daughter, just the same as Willi. THere's nothing special about Willi having been away as far as Monica, Abigail or the police is concerned, that doesn't make him innocent or reliable, especially as he spent part of that time in prison. The police can check his history out - and would - considering Leia's suspicious activity, and Joe's current incarceration. As far as the police are concerned, Willi is part of a potentially criminal family, and they know something's going on. Abigail meeting with Willi is as much a breach of protocol as meeting with Leia about a closed case. Stating that Willi is a fresh face means nothing to the police, only to Abigail, who might feel like Willi deserves to know as much as Leia and Dylan do.

*Interesting fact - looking through the script, Willi calls Abigail 'Angel Spencer' at one point, and Leia corrects him. I wonder if there's a history there.

Spoiler: 'Angel'

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Easiest thing to get info from Mon would be to get Katie to take Mon out drinking with Zoey, they hang out all the time. Mon would likely spill more in that scenario.

Leia is not desperate to find out the truth - her desire to be strong and independant clouds every decision she makes. Willi is a thorn in her side in this regard, and she's making foolish decisions if she wants the truth. Both she and Abigail talk about people other than Asavera over Willi's head. It sounds like Leia and Abigail both know enough. So why send Willi on wild goose chases? Leia has a whole oranisation of people she pays, and she doesn't trust Willi as much as she trusts Emilio. Emilio's helping her do illegal things, and she doesn't even want Willi knowing she owns a nightclub.

Spoiler: Dialogue

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Dude, I know Leia talked to Monica already. I even said that I think everyone talked to Monica... why do you want to make that your point when it's heavily emphasized in the story ? I also insisted several times that, for me, Leia hoped MC would provoke a reaction in Monica, enough that she would let something slip. that implies Leia already talked to Monica, bro.

MC being away makes a ton of difference. and he comes back after learning about the accident, that also makes a ton of difference. it means he wasn't part of all their family bullshit and business for all those years, and most importantly, it means he is not a potential suspect in the investigation. Usually people close to the victim are suspects, so all Helen's family are potential suspects too. the police know all of their crimes, but they can't prove it yet, that's all. Abigail is Helen's best friend. She knows what they all went through when MC ran away, they didn't fake it, MC wasn't part of their family for more than a decade, and he left when he was still a kid. he has no part in their crimes. and Abigail and Monica are who matters here, the rest of the police don't matter. MC is worlds apart from Leia and Dylan in their eyes, even if Monica still hates him.

Monica has been described as an exemplary cop. She would not let anything slip just because she would be a little drunk. and she would suspect that to be the purpose for the hang out anyway, and more importantly, she would not let herself get drunk enough to lose control. her reaction to a face to face with MC would be 1000s of times stronger than being drunk.

in that scenario of yours, there would be no reason, absolutely none, why Leia would call MC then. but she did. proving that whole scenario wrong.

 

[Maviarab]

Leia hoped MC would provoke a reaction in Monica, enough that she would let something slip

That's what we disagree on. As far as we're concerned....not a chance. it was out of pure bitchyness. if Leia wanted to get something out of Mon, I'm pretty sure she could and would have by now. She has all she can get.

She just wanted to send Willi round there for the shits and giggles because she is a vengeful bitch and still pissed at Willi.

 

[HiP1]

That's what we disagree on. As far as we're concerned....not a chance. it was out of pure bitchyness. if Leia wanted to get something out of Mon, I'm pretty sure she could and would have by now. She has all she can get.

She just wanted to send Willi round there for the shits and giggles because she is a vengeful bitch and still pissed at Willi.

yeah, I know, you said that the last time it's ok to disagree, and it's all our interpretation of a small detail anyway.
but if it was Leia's intention for sending MC to Monica, why would she call MC in the first place ? she has all that she can get, in your interpretation. it would make more sense then that someone else calls MC back, and Leia sends him to get spanked and shit on by Monica.

 

[Maviarab]

yeah, I know, you said that the last time it's ok to disagree, and it's all our interpretation of a small detail anyway.
but if it was Leia's intention for sending MC to Monica, why would she call MC in the first place ? she has all that she can get, in your interpretation. it would make more sense then that someone else calls MC back, and Leia sends him to get spanked and shit on by Monica.

Well I don't think she called for help with that specifically...or (as Bob said) with help from Abigail either. Just a waste of time in reality (maybe not for the MC, but he learns nothing that Leia doesn't already know).

The real actual reasons why she called him? I guess they are to be revealed...hopeully sooner rather than later heh.

 

[HiP1]

Well I don't think she called for help with that specifically...or (as Bob said) with help from Abigail either. Just a waste of time in reality (maybe not for the MC, but he learns nothing that Leia doesn't already know).

The real actual reasons why she called him? I guess they are to be revealed...hopeully sooner rather than later heh.

not for that specifically, but for the whole accident thing and investigating around it, and bringing Helen's voice back.

but you think she had another reason altogether that has nothing to do with the investigation or the accident ? then it could make sent him out of pure malice and revenge

 

[LHDLLB]

Well I don't think she called for help with that specifically...or (as Bob said) with help from Abigail either. Just a waste of time in reality (maybe not for the MC, but he learns nothing that Leia doesn't already know).

The real actual reasons why she called him? I guess they are to be revealed...hopeully sooner rather than later heh.

I am a Leia fan, but so far I have trouble trusting her. Sometimes I think that the reason she called him back was to fuck with him, and not in the good sense, and Helen situation was just a good excuse but now that he is back she is conflicted and less sure off she is willing to do whatever that she wanted to do.

 

[Maviarab]

not for that specifically, but for the whole accident thing and investigating around it, and bringing Helen's voice back.

but you think she had another reason altogether that has nothing to do with the investigation or the accident ? then it could make sent him out of pure malice and revenge

I am a Leia fan, but so far I have trouble trusting her. Sometimes I think that the reason she called him back was to fuck with him, and not in the good sense, and Helen situation was just a good excuse but now that he is back she is conflicted and less sure off she is willing to do whatever that she wanted to do.

Exactly...it's a classic love/hate relationship isn't it. She still wants him for herself but would never admit it. Yet the scenes at the police station show how much she actually despises and hates him also for leaving her. Remember there is a piece of dialogue where she insinuates she has not slept with anyone/had a relationship since he left.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

is there a sex with the mom in game?

 

[Doomyk]

Well I don't think she called for help with that specifically...or (as Bob said) with help from Abigail either. Just a waste of time in reality (maybe not for the MC, but he learns nothing that Leia doesn't already know).

The real actual reasons why she called him? I guess they are to be revealed...hopeully sooner rather than later heh.

It seems to me that the answer to the question why Leia didn’t call earlier is in the old version. She literally said, in her mind, William never worried about her. She was just another toy for him. What was the point of calling before the incident just to hear how he would tell her to fuck off (in her mind)? Apparently she convinced herself that the past was in the past and was ready to face her fear. However, the reality turned out to be more cruel and all the buried feelings returned. And it is not clear what is greater than love or hatred, the desire for revenge or to come to peace.

 

[Zeniks1895]

Exactly...it's a classic love/hate relationship isn't it. She still wants him for herself but would never admit it. Yet the scenes at the police station show how much she actually despises and hates him also for leaving her. Remember there is a piece of dialogue where she insinuates she has not slept with anyone/had a relationship since he left.

Can you please point out in what specific dialogue she's hinting at this? I seem to have overlooked such an essential detail. In the previous version she wasn't a virgin, but if in this version she decided to save herself for him I'll be very pleased.