VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Turret]

Hi everyone!

Many interesting thoughts about what will happen next in WIAB over the last pages! Here are some comments from me.

Willi/Leia meeting: I agree it is unlikely they will have sex then, but I also would not be surprised if they do! It could be a wang- brushed-against-flow-event and is possible, just look at it.
It became quite clear over the first 3 chapters that Willi and Leia stood at the brink of sleeping together when he (had to) fled Wollust. It is also insinuated that Willi either wanted to return earlier or return and take Leia with him, but him being innocent tossed behind swedish curtains threw the wrench in. In prison he then met Miru, who helped him greatly to cope with being innocent but still in the gaol. It is clear that Leia never knew about Willi being in prison and him sending her the carved heart opens up their private meeting.
I think it likely that during their talk a lot surpressed feelings and past events will bubble to the surface and the two finally consumating their relationship could be the end result. But no matter if Leia and Willi sleep togather at this meeting or not, this event will lay the foundation for Willi/Leia relationship, Willi/Leia/Miru relationship, Leia NTR, Miru NTR, neutral relationship and Willi cheating, depending on our choices made before and during the coming meeting.

Gefritzel: I consider it near certain that Gefritzel will take a shine to Leia (and vice versa) and the two having no problems with each other.

Helen: I theorise that in several paths we will have a really bad surprise with her. There is something off with her and it is not her trauma induced muteness in the first place. Many tiny details, among them Helen spying on Willi/Leia talking together or the way she observes the others too.

Zoey: Our residential free Spirit will likely turn out to be a stabilising factor on more than one front. e.g. Stefan´s situation in SG is likely bader since Zoey married either Kati, Willi or someone else and left to live with them.

 

[Doomyk]

A small observation: When a certain *Anastasia* was mentioned in the last chapter, Dana made an unpleasant expression on her face. It’s interesting what kind of history they have there.

Zoey: Our residential free Spirit will likely turn out to be a stabilising factor on more than one front. e.g. Stefan´s situation in SG is likely bader since Zoey married either Kati, Willi or someone else and left to live with them.

To be honest, we don't really know what exactly the Holgerson family reall business. I wouldn't be surprised if their business is just a front for crime. Stefan clearly knows the Zanes closely. And in general, Zoey’s story has a slight touch of similarity with Willy. The prodigal daughter returned to the family business.

 

[Turret]

A small observation: When a certain *Anastasia* was mentioned in the last chapter, Dana made an unpleasant expression on her face. It’s interesting what kind of history they have there.

To be honest, we don't really know what exactly the Holgerson family reall business. I wouldn't be surprised if their business is just a front for crime. Stefan clearly knows the Zanes closely. And in general, Zoey’s story has a slight touch of similarity with Willy. The prodigal daughter returned to the family business.

I agree, we do not know the specifics of the Holgerson family business, but going by what we learned in the first few chapters, they are in the wood and carpentry business and Zoey and Stefan´s parents are too old-fashioned at work, no or just few computers and such. So the siblings try to carefully bring their parents to go into retirement. It does not strike me as a front for crime, but it is possible.
Still I wait until a Nils Holgerson pops up.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I agree, we do not know the specifics of the Holgerson family business, but going by what we learned in the first few chapters, they are in the wood and carpentry business and Zoey and Stefan´s parents are too old-fashioned at work, no or just few computers and such. So the siblings try to carefully bring their parents to go into retirement. It does not strike me as a front for crime, but it is possible.
Still I wait until a Nils Holgerson pops up.

I thought the Holgerson business was a paper company:

st "Grandpa owned a paper company combined with a small newspaper."

This would make sense about digitising being a problem, a modern newspaper needs to be digitised in a world where everyone is using mobiles.

So I wondered if the reporter in SG was employed by Stefan, which would make Stefan's comments about not knowing any 'Cyrus' be seen in a different light - ie he can't recall any newspaper worthy Cyrus, and he's wondering if Nika is trying to insinuate himself under a fake name and is already suspicious about him - he'll then investigate and wants to meet with Bella to warn her about Nika's past.

Something I thought about regarding Helen - in the previous version the accident was a year ago, this version we can only assume it's long enough ago for the case to have been shelved by the feds, and for everyone to interract as though this is how Helen has been the whole time. No one is awkward with her other than Willi, because he remembers how he used to interact with her more vividly, and everyone else is used to her being mute, guessing her mannerisms.

Anyway, it reminds me of when someone has a stroke and loses some of their speech in extreme cases. THey are otherwise functional, byt their brain can't remember how to speak. So what circumstances could reliably induce a stroke? What the goal to silence Helen or, was her survival not anticipated? Or was the goal to get Willi back, because someone wants to revenge themselves on Willi? I'm sure some of the other people (like Ben, Dana's brother etc) have less fond memories of Willi, and there was a bunch of people WIlli and Leia did unlawful things to (as Willi mentions to Gina).

 

[Maviarab]

I thought the Holgerson business was a paper company:

st "Grandpa owned a paper company combined with a small newspaper."

This would make sense about digitising being a problem, a modern newspaper needs to be digitised in a world where everyone is using mobiles.

So I wondered if the reporter in SG was employed by Stefan, which would make Stefan's comments about not knowing any 'Cyrus' be seen in a different light - ie he can't recall any newspaper worthy Cyrus, and he's wondering if Nika is trying to insinuate himself under a fake name and is already suspicious about him - he'll then investigate and wants to meet with Bella to warn her about Nika's past.

Something I thought about regarding Helen - in the previous version the accident was a year ago, this version we can only assume it's long enough ago for the case to have been shelved by the feds, and for everyone to interract as though this is how Helen has been the whole time. No one is awkward with her other than Willi, because he remembers how he used to interact with her more vividly, and everyone else is used to her being mute, guessing her mannerisms.

Anyway, it reminds me of when someone has a stroke and loses some of their speech in extreme cases. THey are otherwise functional, byt their brain can't remember how to speak. So what circumstances could reliably induce a stroke? What the goal to silence Helen or, was her survival not anticipated? Or was the goal to get Willi back, because someone wants to revenge themselves on Willi? I'm sure some of the other people (like Ben, Dana's brother etc) have less fond memories of Willi, and there was a bunch of people WIlli and Leia did unlawful things to (as Willi mentions to Gina).

Lot of unknowns and mysteries there Bob...and I'm sure they will all get unravalled very...very...slowly as the story progresses to keep us hooked.

 

[Turret]

I thought the Holgerson business was a paper company:

st "Grandpa owned a paper company combined with a small newspaper."

This would make sense about digitising being a problem, a modern newspaper needs to be digitised in a world where everyone is using mobiles.

Right, I misremebered that part due to a novel I am reading currently. But I knew that the Holgerson business looks not very crimelike as was put forward earlier.

 

[Maviarab]

Right, I misremebered that part due to a novel I am reading currently. But I knew that the Holgerson business looks not very crimelike as was put forward earlier.

Unless they start 'printing' other things.....

 

[LHDLLB]

THe previous version had good and bad cops, Krayt, Miru's ninja clan, the bikers, the Zane's and the Organisation, who was working with the bad cops. The bikers, Zanes and good cops were mostly collaborating. Miru's clan was unknown as to their goals. It's safe to say thes power structures/relationships are irrelevant now, only the outlines remain. Asavera is Leia's competition, not affiliated with Krayt or Leia, but in competition - that why Willi sent Asavera's 'regards' to Krayt by the knocked out member. We have no idea what Asavera does yet, other than a nightclub owner that is also watched closely by the police. Asavera might be on the pimp side manipulated by the organisation to antagonise Leia, who knows? I think the Church/Organisation is rather a political thing that uses the church structure for cover, so yes, I agree with you there, it's most likely coordinating Krayt and Asavera because Leia is in there way.

In the old version Abigail asks Willi why Leia called him, as it had been a year since Helen's accident - the implication was Leia called him because she can't handle what is going on despite her appearance of confidence. That fits with my theories about Helen having gotten used to not speaking, it's been a while.

In the old version, Donna seduced him to blame him for rape, but then fell pregnant with his child. The organisation would have terminated her, she hides the prenancy test to avoid being found out so they think she is still useful. I think she ends up with the Zanes as the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of vibe. They know from then they can trust her because she's out of options. We also don't know if Donna is married, ends up keeping her surname or what. She might not be Revera yet in this version.

I think Mon was joking about Dana preparing a defense - Mon said Leia is way too clean, so the police don't have anything they can use right now, so no need for a lawyer yet. Jorge disappeared after getting feisty at Leia's club, but no one knows where he is. Maybe He will find Summer Also notice that Emilio has tatts in SG but seems pretty clean in WiaB - maybe he spends time in prison too?

Harbour was a villian, but not necessarily the main one. There's a beach house or something with an unseen man who seems to be the main villian. THe girl or Donna (depending on whether you let yourself be seduced or are set up by the blonde) seem to report directly to him.

All the stuff from the old version is not canon anymore, but it's still a good way to second guess the way Ocean plots and thinks.

I forgot about the William sending the Kryat member "Asavera regards", but if we agree that Asavera and the Kryat are branches of the Organization this may backfire in William, either this 3 powers works together or is a winners takes all situation and is everyone at everybody throats, with come to think of it is what Ch3 implies, nonetheless is still my theory that ZPR is a response to this Organization. We do know litlle about what exacly Asavera does, but given that they seems a direct competidor to Leia may be safe to assume that they works in similar markets, drugs, prostitution and money laundry. Do you think that Miru's Clan will pop up in this version ? I am on the fence about it, but I agree the outlines of the relationship still is the same.

The time of the accident Helen accident is a strange one, it seems that the family has had time to adjust to her condition but the story is not that clear about when it happened, I find that quite odd. That would explain how Donna switches sides, the things is: Will she get pregnant in this version ? I don't know, old one was gonna get a pregnancy system and there was the Donna situation but seems odd to me now; can you imagine Miru finding out that William put bibi in some randoms belly before her ?

Yeah was on the fence on that on, sometimes I read Mon line as a joke sometimes other as not as much. Nice catch on the Emilio have not notice this, is a interest ideia, if he did go to prison has he in SG resentment over the Zanes ? or is he still loyal to Leia ?

Jesus I remember even less of the old version than I thought about, don't remember at all of this scene

Gefritzel: I consider it near certain that Gefritzel will take a shine to Leia (and vice versa) and the two having no problems with each other.

I find that William having a snake as a pet, who has a antagonist relationship with Miru and seems jealously of William such a funny foreshadow to Leia's relationship, I quite agree with you on this one.

Anyway, it reminds me of when someone has a stroke and loses some of their speech in extreme cases. THey are otherwise functional, byt their brain can't remember how to speak. So what circumstances could reliably induce a stroke? What the goal to silence Helen or, was her survival not anticipated? Or was the goal to get Willi back, because someone wants to revenge themselves on Willi? I'm sure some of the other people (like Ben, Dana's brother etc) have less fond memories of Willi, and there was a bunch of people WIlli and Leia did unlawful things to (as Willi mentions to Gina).

I mean is it even possible to lose only your speech ? People who had stoke tends to loose more than just speech, mobility, sight sometimes and even brain function, Helen seems pretty normal to me outside of not speaking, I wanna say that is a car accident that leaves her mute but I am not sure, the story makes clear what kinda accident she had ? My point is that I always found Helen condition quite strange, if we go with you are saying she has the accident some time ago, if the goal was to kill her would not have others attended by now ? if is bring William back to Wollust to take revenge on him... it happens but seems much complicate, seems the person would have to know more than they could. Personally, I always thought that Helen can talk but she chooses not to for her own reasons, the ideia of a accident leaving you mute seems not possible to me, at least I don't know how it can be.

 

[Maviarab]

The time of the accident Helen accident is a strange one, it seems that the family has had time to adjust to her condition but the story is not that clear about when it happened, I find that quite odd.

Given they have had time to adjust, especially given the 'police' have closed the case because the feds have taken over...I think we can safely safe it's months...not weeks...

if we agree that Asavera and the Kryat are branches of the Organization this may backfire in William, either this 3 powers works together or is a winners takes all situation and is everyone at everybody throats

I think the message was intended to cause chaos...while Asavera and the Krayts are infighting/at each others throats, Willi can go about his business without them hassling him etc...he specifically wrote that and used that name to start a war between Asavera and Krayts.

I don't know, old one was gonna get a pregnancy system and there was the Donna situation but seems odd to me now; can you imagine Miru finding out that William put bibi in some randoms belly before her ?

Well in the old version, it was a 50/50 chance system with Donna. However, it was this decision to sleep with her (and Katie telling Miru) that started Muru's war with Katie and Miru cheating on you in return.

I mean is it even possible to lose only your speech ? People who had stoke tends to loose more than just speech, mobility, sight sometimes and even brain function, Helen seems pretty normal to me outside of not speaking, I wanna say that is a car accident that leaves her mute but I am not sure, the story makes clear what kinda accident she had

I think she is 'choosing' not to talk....

 

[Doomyk]

Anyway, it reminds me of when someone has a stroke and loses some of their speech in extreme cases. THey are otherwise functional, byt their brain can't remember how to speak. So what circumstances could reliably induce a stroke? What the goal to silence Helen or, was her survival not anticipated?

It’s too early to judge, there’s too little information. But with each new update i have a growing sense of anxiety about Helen. Let's just say, there is, there is just a possibility that her silence is a way to attract attention. Hysterical mutism. There were hints that she loves to be the center of attention. That's why I previously mentioned the possibility that Helen herself planted the spiders. Also, don't forget whose children Katie and Leia are. What makes us think that Helen can't be just as dark and vicious inside? If Leia is a princess, then who is the queen of history then?
In addition, another interesting point. Helen personally taught Wilm not to be jealous. We are used to the fact that in stories about emotional incest, mothers are terribly jealous, ready to kill their daughters-in-law. But if you remove jealousy, then there will be no surprise why Helen sincerely greeted Mira. This is all leading to the fact that Helen, even in the past, could have loved William not with the usual maternal love. And perhaps even then she was preparing him as a lover. In addition, there is a small probability that it was Helen who was the love that Katie found out about. It would explain why William fled in fear, afraid of destroying his family. It would explain why William could unconsciously be so attracted to Helen, and she herself be so calm to his advances. He simply blocked out the memories.
PS: There was a scene in the old Wiab when William kissed Scarlet in front of Dylan. Then Dylan told Scarlet never to do that, otherwise Helen would never forgive her. Scarlet then responded in horror *Did you know that?*. A bit of a hazy scene, I used to I thought it was about Leia. But now I rethought that scene. What if Dylan was talking about Helen?

 

[LHDLLB]

Given they have had time to adjust, especially given the 'police' have closed the case because the feds have taken over...I think we can safely safe it's months...not weeks...


I think the message was intended to cause chaos...while Asavera and the Krayts are infighting/at each others throats, Willi can go about his business without them hassling him etc...he specifically wrote that and used that name to start a war between Asavera and Krayts.


Well in the old version, it was a 50/50 chance system with Donna. However, it was this decision to sleep with her (and Katie telling Miru) that started Muru's war with Katie and Miru cheating on you in return.


I think she is 'choosing' not to talk....

Yeah, I tend to think weeks after the case was close by the police is when Leia calls William and the accident is at least some months old, but Ocean not disclosing this information seems a bit odd to me. Not because is super important but because it helps understand the characters a bit more.

It seems that way to me too, but if Asavera and the Kryat are arms controlled by the Church Organization, William actions may not harbor the result that he expects.

When I played old version I did not get this scene with Donna, so I did not know about that. But I am curius to see how the NTR path o this Miru will starts.

I am under the same impression, Helen is choosing not to talk

It’s too early to judge, there’s too little information. But with each new update i have a growing sense of anxiety about Helen. Let's just say, there is, there is just a possibility that her silence is a way to attract attention. Hysterical mutism. There were hints that she loves to be the center of attention. That's why I previously mentioned the possibility that Helen herself planted the spiders. Also, don't forget whose children Katie and Leia are. What makes us think that Helen can't be just as dark and vicious inside? If Leia is a princess, then who is the queen of history then?
In addition, another interesting point. Helen personally taught Wilm not to be jealous. We are used to the fact that in stories about emotional incest, mothers are terribly jealous, ready to kill their daughters-in-law. But if you remove jealousy, then there will be no surprise why Helen sincerely greeted Mira. This is all leading to the fact that Helen, even in the past, could have loved William not with the usual maternal love. And perhaps even then she was preparing him as a lover. In addition, there is a small probability that it was Helen who was the love that Katie found out about. It would explain why William fled in fear, afraid of destroying his family. It would explain why William could unconsciously be so attracted to Helen, and she herself be so calm to his advances. He simply blocked out the memories.
PS: There was a scene in the old Wiab when William kissed Scarlet in front of Dylan. Then Dylan told Scarlet never to do that, otherwise Helen would never forgive her. Scarlet then responded in horror *Did you know that?*. A bit of a hazy scene, I used to I thought it was about Leia. But now I rethought that scene. What if Dylan was talking about Helen?

I am not much sure about Helen grooming young William, is not impossible the Zanes are a weird bunch, but don't quite sits right with me, Helen and Dylan seems to have had a open relationship at some point, the lack jealousy may just be who she is. That said, I like your take that Helen is trying to get attention and the mutism is a way to get that, Leia calls her a drama queen an insofar it has worked wonderfully, her prodigy son has returned and the family is now united for better or worse.

 

[Maviarab]

When I played old version I did not get this scene with Donna, so I did not know about that. But I am curius to see how the NTR path o this Miru will starts.

In the old version, as said, sleeping with her results in a 50/50 chance.

However, not sleeping with her gets her punished and chastised whe she gets back to 'wherever she goes back to' (and she really does not seem to want to upset them)...sleeping with Willi gains her favor. It seems very much that she was under control/ a slave almost. I may be misremembering exactly, sure BobTheDuck can fill in my gaps in memory.

But yes, in terms of Miru cheating, this was the catalyst if you not on good terms with Katie as she tells her (aside from completely ignoring Miru which was a diff path, where she had the opportunity to sleep with your cousin or Dylan...though it seems the Dylan route is now potentially on the sharing path).

How much of that is going to be reintroduced is anyone's guess right now.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I forgot about the William sending the Kryat member "Asavera regards", but if we agree that Asavera and the Kryat are branches of the Organization this may backfire in William, either this 3 powers works together or is a winners takes all situation and is everyone at everybody throats, with come to think of it is what Ch3 implies, nonetheless is still my theory that ZPR is a response to this Organization. We do know litlle about what exacly Asavera does, but given that they seems a direct competidor to Leia may be safe to assume that they works in similar markets, drugs, prostitution and money laundry. Do you think that Miru's Clan will pop up in this version ? I am on the fence about it, but I agree the outlines of the relationship still is the same.

The time of the accident Helen accident is a strange one, it seems that the family has had time to adjust to her condition but the story is not that clear about when it happened, I find that quite odd. That would explain how Donna switches sides, the things is: Will she get pregnant in this version ? I don't know, old one was gonna get a pregnancy system and there was the Donna situation but seems odd to me now; can you imagine Miru finding out that William put bibi in some randoms belly before her ?

Yeah was on the fence on that on, sometimes I read Mon line as a joke sometimes other as not as much. Nice catch on the Emilio have not notice this, is a interest ideia, if he did go to prison has he in SG resentment over the Zanes ? or is he still loyal to Leia ?

Jesus I remember even less of the old version than I thought about, don't remember at all of this scene



I find that William having a snake as a pet, who has a antagonist relationship with Miru and seems jealously of William such a funny foreshadow to Leia's relationship, I quite agree with you on this one.



I mean is it even possible to lose only your speech ? People who had stoke tends to loose more than just speech, mobility, sight sometimes and even brain function, Helen seems pretty normal to me outside of not speaking, I wanna say that is a car accident that leaves her mute but I am not sure, the story makes clear what kinda accident she had ? My point is that I always found Helen condition quite strange, if we go with you are saying she has the accident some time ago, if the goal was to kill her would not have others attended by now ? if is bring William back to Wollust to take revenge on him... it happens but seems much complicate, seems the person would have to know more than they could. Personally, I always thought that Helen can talk but she chooses not to for her own reasons, the ideia of a accident leaving you mute seems not possible to me, at least I don't know how it can be.

About the Mon line with Dana as Leia's defense, it is a pointed joke I think. My guess is that Mon has kept the association with the Zanes through friendship with Katie, who is clean in a criminal sense, not involved, and her superiors are fine having Mon as a close asset if they need info. I don't think Mon is playing detective, it seems she's more regular duty.

About Emilio, I think we see him as a freelancer in SG, the way he talks to Desiree implies that he's a free agent. Maybe he took the fall? I'm sure we'll find out. He also uses more eyeliner in SG As a freelancer, my guess is that Leia doesn't need his services anymore - maybe her nightclub has been sanitised, or she's sold it, or traded it? These kind of questions we can't find out, only guess.

About speech, one friend's dad had a stroke, and couldn't tell his daughter he loved her, she was telling me how some words were just lost to him, and he'd be in tears trying to speak, knowing what he wanted to say, but not knowing how to say it. My mum had a small stroke last year, similar thing where it's like there is a mental block. My understanding is that whatever part of the brain is affected just goes, and you lose that ability/memory. If the area affected is motor skills, you might become clumsier, unable to hold a spoon etc until your brain relearns and remaps. In the case of language, my mum chooses the wrong words because some words are just gone from her mind. So it's possible someone can lose the ability to talk (although improbable without further wide spread problems). Obviously these kind of problems are when the stoke is mild.

In the old version, as said, sleeping with her results in a 50/50 chance.

However, not sleeping with her gets her punished and chastised whe she gets back to 'wherever she goes back to' (and she really does not seem to want to upset them)...sleeping with Willi gains her favor. It seems very much that she was under control/ a slave almost. I may be misremembering exactly, sure BobTheDuck can fill in my gaps in memory.

But yes, in terms of Miru cheating, this was the catalyst if you not on good terms with Katie as she tells her (aside from completely ignoring Miru which was a diff path, where she had the opportunity to sleep with your cousin or Dylan...though it seems the Dylan route is now potentially on the sharing path).

How much of that is going to be reintroduced is anyone's guess right now.

I didn't play those paths initially - those were not my natural choices, so I never knew until I started reading the script I don't know the effects of all the variables, but I think you could choose 100% chance of pregnancy to force the scene if you had sex with Donna in the bar toilet. If you don't there's a scene with a different blonde girl on the side of the road, who is sent because Donna failed to seduce you. The goal was to get you in an awkward position so the organisation could put you under Harbours control, trying to get you off the board, but Abigail helps you survive (I almost always wake up in hospital, because I couldn't be evil even to ugly old Miru). If Donna is pregnant, there's a scene where she hides the prenancy test while the blonde girl walks in, if she failed to seduce Willi, the blonde girl talks down to her (in a similar way to Leia talking down to Katie about being unable to seduce anyone). There's also a scene where they're reporting to their boss earlier.

The final scene in the old version with Donna that I recall was when Donna finds you at Abigail's house. If she's pregnant, she's terrified that the organisation will find out, and cut her off as useless or compromised, so she switches sides. If she's not pregnant, she's still worried they consider her useless. Either way, she gives Abigail and Willi a location where they can find out more, but we don't know if it's a trap.

Regarding the organisation - my gut feeling is that all parties are independant, and just as Willi is manipulating Krayt by implicating Asavera, the organisation is manipulating them too. That's all be about plausible deniability, and using assets to get results rather than building up and maintaining multiple different organisations. I also think the uncertainty of the power struggle between the independant parties is where a lot of the 'fun' in the story will happen.

 

[Maviarab]

The final scene in the old version with Donna that I recall was when Donna finds you at Abigail's house. If she's pregnant, she's terrified that the organisation will find out, and cut her off as useless or compromised, so she switches sides. If she's not pregnant, she's still worried they consider her useless. Either way, she gives Abigail and Willi a location where they can find out more, but we don't know if it's a trap.

Huh...don't actually remember that hahaha.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Huh...don't actually remember that hahaha.

In that scene, you see Abigail's niece Cecilia who I mistook for the blonde, and was thinking there's all kinds of weirdness I'm glad it's being remade, because it was starting to get confused around there, jumping between patreon voted scenes and canon.

I've included some of the relevant dialogue that hints at some of the connections. Maybe Ashley is now Asavera?

Also, screens are from the non Donna toilet/pregnant path, as that's what I typically had saved. I really should go through it all again more thoroughly while we wait for the new chapter.

Spoiler: Some of the dialogue

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Spoiler: Associated screenshots of the beach house from old WiaB

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[Maviarab]

In that scene, you see Abigail's niece Cecilia who I mistook for the blonde, and was thinking there's all kinds of weirdness I'm glad it's being remade, because it was starting to get confused around there, jumping between patreon voted scenes and canon.

I've included some of the relevant dialogue that hints at some of the connections. Maybe Ashley is now Asavera?

Also, screens are from the non Donna toilet/pregnant path, as that's what I typically had saved. I really should go through it all again more thoroughly while we wait for the new chapter.

Spoiler: Some of the dialogue

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Associated screenshots of the beach house from old WiaB

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I recall the screens, just not the other bits we were discussing. Thanks for posting though.

Tempted to replay the old version just for nostalgias sake but not sure it's actually a wise thing to do....

 

[BobTheDuck]

I recall the screens, just not the other bits we were discussing. Thanks for posting though.

Tempted to replay the old version just for nostalgias sake but not sure it's actually a wise thing to do....

Well, for me it's more a way to understand the thought processes rather than outline the plot. I am certain Ocean has changed more than just names. We might not have Warden Harbour, but his function in the plot will be held by someone - at some point it is more than likely that Willi finds himself at the mercy of a group, where his strength or wits won't help. Donna almost certainly gets pregnant from someone because a scion is mentioned in SG, but maybe Donna's path will purposefully be changed to throw us off track. That's also part of the story telling I enjoy, the metastory of how Ocean plays with our perception , they way he draws out our anticipation. His goals as a story teller aren't different, he's just matured a lot and made it more detailed. All portraits end up looking like people, so the functions of the nose, eyes and ears remain the same, but each look is different.

Longwinded way for me to say it's worth another spin if you can put up with ugly Miru and know it's no longer canon

 

[Maviarab]

Longwinded way for me to say it's worth another spin if you can put up with ugly Miru and know it's no longer canon

Well I could never put up with her last time, can't see that changing now

 

[BobTheDuck]

Well I could never put up with her last time, can't see that changing now

Makes it easier to explore the differnt routes Ocean had in mind, because it'll be almost imporssible to start the Miru war with new Miru. That would not be acceptable behaviour at all.

 

[Katie4Ever]