VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Krytax123]

The appearance of minors, underage characters - even if it's not possible to interact with them.
Corrupted Kingdoms got - according to the dev - the axe for exactly this reason.

I don't know this game, but some previews are looknig hard borderline

Maga Lono has removed all toddlers from his game Simple Days.

At least according to the devs of Race of Life its fine to have minors in the story as long as they arent sexualized and dont appear or are nearby in any lewd scenes which sounds very reasonable. Apparently patreon confirmed them that having Lily (the child of their mc) in the story is fine as long as it isnt related to the sexual content.

I didnt played it but i did read that in Corrupted Kingdoms the supposedly minor carachter was around in a lewd scene (sleeping or something i think?) which was the/a reason for the ban.

No, for Ocean yes, but not for the patrons. According to the discord the patreons got a refund.

Patreon is not stupid enough to withhold subscribers money. If they were to seriously pull a stunt like that, Patreon would drown in a flood of lawsuits - especially in the USA. Let's be honest, no matter how questionable the contend of any removed dev is, that would simply be a scam from which one could certainly not even get out with a reference to the declaration of consent of the ToS...

I didnt knew that but i did read a lot of critics from supposed patreons of other banned devs in the past about not getting their money back. Cant confirm anything myself, the devs im subbed to didnt got axed so far.

 

[xtraax]

he could also be merging both accounts into one page.

My thoughts exactly, with the release of SG on Steam, more people are likely to come and support on Patreon as well. Maybe having only one account is easier for newcomers, less confusion. But it could also be a legal issue. I guess we'll have to wait for the next dev log which should be coming out soon, as Ocean hinted about what could happen to Wiab in the last one, and I think this is it.

And yes, Patrons got a refund (I got mine).

 

[Doomyk]

The appearance of minors, underage characters - even if it's not possible to interact with them.

It turns out that Monica even here managed to be guilty

 

[Hahn1900]

Well, lets face it, any DEV who want a safe environment should avoid patreon in the future... there are other platforms, more than enough.

Patreon has changed their rules incedibly fast these days and is acting unpredictable. And its not even sure how they will react to some games... i mean, there are still games on patreon that are CLEARLY incest games for example, with no way around it and they are still on, biggest of them, summertime saga. Well... why is it still on? Because of the income, patreon is getting a lot out of that game... WiaB didnt have that much support, enough to get by for ocean... but not enough to prevent a action from patreon.

Patreon isnt even chasing only incest or some other "grey zones"... no they are kinda deleting adult content one by one. Dont know what they are thinking but if they continue like this, they will lose a lot of income and subscribestar and others will get bigger and bigger.

Its a struggle for the DEVs to get their project moving onto another platform, but every DEV should consider to move their stuff away from patreon sooner or later. Its obvious that nothing is safe there and that the patreon rules are not really followed either... they have their doublestandards. If you are big enough like the DEVs Summertime Saga you can make anything you want, with not even hidden incest too. Others are just removed... now it happended to ocean (by far not the only one, there are tons of games and DEVs that were removed in the last months)

Hopefully ocean has tackled that beforehand and the subscribestar page is growing enough to get by.

Most important thing now is the Steam and GOG Release of both his games... many AVNs got on steam recently but not that many were a success... i really hope Ocean can have enough success to keep things going, well not going, to move FURTHER. He needs to get things done faster than in the past i would say... with the rwork thing out of the way, new hardware, the GOG and steam release, things should run smoother now... or better said, the MUST run smoother now.

 

[Maviarab]

To be honest, Ocean played with fire and got burned.

He had a choice when he remade WIAB:

1. Keep certain themes (even if only implied), keep his Patreon base happy, but risk eventually falling afoul with Patreon (i.e. like putting your John Thomas in a sleeping alligators mouth and betting you won't get bit)

2. Remove certain themes completely (I think he could have done this without too much issue), piss off a bunch of supporters, but protect his Patreon revenue stream.

Don't for a moment kid yourself that Steam or SS are safe. Play with fire/push the boundaries and a third-party can pull the plug at any time and without warning.

Steam don't care about incest...and as for Patreon supporters, WIAB has always had much less since Ocean took over SG and started the rework, so that's probably not the end of the world to him given it will be on Steam in the next few months itself.

 

[John972]

Steam don't care about incest...and as for Patreon supporters, WIAB has always had much less since Ocean took over SG and started the rework, so that's probably not the end of the world to him given it will be on Steam in the next few months itself.

Patreon didn't care as much at one stage either. Just because Steam may be "friendly" now, doesn't mean it will remain so in the future, especially if cc companies/processors choose to apply pressure.

The (valid) point I'm making is that Ocean risks losing his revenue streams to forces outside of his control. I don't want to see that happen.

 

[Maviarab]

The (valid) point I'm making is that Ocean risks losing his revenue streams to forces outside of his control. I don't want to see that happen.

Which can happen to pretty much any business or person at any time. Some things you really have to stop worrying about.

 

[Ayhsel]

Which can happen to pretty much any business or person at any time. Some things you really have to stop worrying about.

There is also the fact that... mmm how to say it...

"Close connection" between the characters in WIAB or between MC and Nami is at the core of the stories

WIAB does have it harder as I can count at least 3 main characters that would be a big no no innthat term, vs just one in in SG. But Nami is still so huge in the story that seems hard to avoid.

Only way it may work without issues is make a non i version. If it just happens that some fan decides to make a patch, that is another story.

EDIT: by fan patch, I hope I am being as clear as possible.

 

[John972]

Which can happen to pretty much any business or person at any time. Some things you really have to stop worrying about.

Firstly, I see Ocean is clearly passionate about his games, as evidenced by his drive and perseverance over the years, despite obstacles and fan criticisms. If he was forced to stop because third party providers pull the plug, them I expect it to have an negative impact on him. It won't impact me, other than the fact I have a trait called empathy.

Your comment is throw-away and asinine. If any business chooses to flout rules or break the law, they run a higher risk of things going south. That doesn't just happen to any business at any time.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

Patreon didn't care as much at one stage either. Just because Steam may be "friendly" now, doesn't mean it will remain so in the future, especially if cc companies/processors choose to apply pressure.

It's not CC companies, it's "PayPal".

 

[Ilhares]

It's not CC companies, it's "PayPal".

Which is in turn pressured by the CC companies and banks. As long as they're making money, PayPal largely doesn't care.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

Which is in turn pressured by the CC companies and banks. As long as they're making money, PayPal largely doesn't care.

Itch.io said it was PayPal as well, if it was the CC's they sure don't care about SS, and the tons and tons of porn sites.

 

[John972]

Itch.io said it was PayPal as well, if it was the CC's they sure don't care about SS, and the tons and tons of porn sites.

I vaguely recall cc companies putting pressure on third party processors, such PayPal, over the years, Sadly, it's never-ending.

 

[Doomyk]

Patreon didn't care as much at one stage either. Just because Steam may be "friendly" now, doesn't mean it will remain so in the future, especially if cc companies/processors choose to apply pressure.

The (valid) point I'm making is that Ocean risks losing his revenue streams to forces outside of his control. I don't want to see that happen.

Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.

 

[El_Magnifico]

Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.

Or the Lannister and Targaryan background

 

[John972]

Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.

I know, the hypocrisy is astounding and the rules likely only get enforced against the small fish. Add to that the fact that any third party can change their policy at any time. My view is that Ocean, as a business manager, has to assess the risk (of having "unfashionable" plot elements), decide how much risk he's willing to take on, and look mitigate risk where he can to protect his investment.

PS - I'm honestly surprised it took this long for Patreon to move against WIAB. Any person with an internet connection and Google could establish the truth about the WIAB plot, it's history, and the game add-on that can't be named (including the author of that add-on), with most of the evidence appearing in this very forum.

 

[Hahn1900]

I know, the hypocrisy is astounding and the rules likely only get enforced against the small fish. Add to that the fact that any third party can change their policy at any time. My view is that Ocean, as a business manager, has to assess the risk (of having "unfashionable" plot elements), decide how much risk he's willing to take on, and look mitigate risk where he can to protect his investment.

PS - I'm honestly surprised it took this long for Patreon to move against WIAB. Any person with an internet connection and Google could establish the truth about the WIAB plot, it's history, and the game add-on that can't be named (including the author of that add-on), with most of the evidence appearing in this very forum.

Risk? What risk? Do you know the game summertime saga? If ocean would have made the amount of money like summertime saga is, he wouldnt have to deal with this problem now. Summertime Saga isnt even hiding the incest and doesnt get bothered by patreon, cause they earn a lot out of it too... WiaB was simply not big enough, someone reported it, and so patreon got rid of it... thats it.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

I vaguely recall cc companies putting pressure on third party processors, such PayPal, over the years, Sadly, it's never-ending.

You can still pay at all those sites with CC's. If it was really credit compainies why would they still let you use their cards to pay for porn?

 

[John972]

Risk? What risk? Do you know the game summertime saga? If ocean would have made the amount of money like summertime saga is, he wouldnt have to deal with this problem now. Summertime Saga isnt even hiding the incest and doesnt get bothered by patreon, cause they earn a lot out of it too... WiaB was simply not big enough, someone reported it, and so patreon got rid of it... thats it.

What risk? You answered your own question, Is WIAB as big as SS? No! So, there was/is risk and that's how it played out.

 

[John972]

You can still pay at all those sites with CC's. If it was really credit compainies why would they still let you use their cards to pay for porn?

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This has been going on for years.