VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[yossa999]

I've thought about this and realized there are no words, analogies or arguments I can use to make you or someone else understand why this is such a big deal.

Like in everything, context matters. The situation we are inserted in matters. Where we are, where we came from shapes every single person on this planet. DNA matters. At birth we are imprinted with genetical material of those who came before us. The very concept of family is so massive because we are talking about people who make us who we are. People who are connected to us that we didn't choose.

You can't replace a blood bond with an adoption, like you're picking a pet at the local pound, and keep the concept of "family" exactly the same. If this isn't internalized in you by default, I truly don't see how you can be made to understand it.

DNA matters, but not when the fertilized egg begins to divide. The genes are not yet activated, but the proliferating cells somehow already know who will be the skin and who will be the liver. Although after division they are identical.

I mean, don't overestimate the importance of DNA

So Tom Hagen would have been a better consigliere if he hadn't been adopted? Would he be a more brother to Michael and a more son to Vito Corleone if they were blood related? And the Michael's story took the another direction? Family, I mean, household, is not just blood relationship. In fact, this is the least that matters, otherwise non-incestuous relationships would be impossible

 

[Maviarab]

otherwise non-incestuous relationships would be impossible

Yeah heh...we wish

 

[BobTheDuck]

I've thought about this and realized there are no words, analogies or arguments I can use to make you or someone else understand why this is such a big deal.

Like in everything, context matters. The situation we are inserted in matters. Where we are, where we came from shapes every single person on this planet. DNA matters. At birth we are imprinted with genetical material of those who came before us. The very concept of family is so massive because we are talking about people who surround us and make us who we are. People who are connected to us that we didn't get to choose.

You can't replace a blood bond with an adoption, like you're picking a pet at the local pound, and keep the concept of "family" exactly the same. If this isn't internalized in you by default, I truly don't see how you can be made to understand it.

I agree, it will be different. The weight and importance of different acts will have different consequences. The story will need to go in the new direction whole heartedly. The question isn't one of change, but whether the change will be half hearted, or deeply integrated. If it's done well, does it matter that it's different? The only thing we lose is our expectations ...if it's done well. If it's just a fancier word for landlady, then it's a meaningless change. I can see a lot of ways to keep the story consistent in quality with the change, even if it goes in a different direction than "prodigal returns and fucks his whole family, except his dad who dies in a strange gardening accident".

I understand that the issues of taboo are changed a lot from people's epectations, but currently there's nothing in the game the is really taboo, maybe one massage that is creepy 2019 AVN trope style. It's certainly in an easier place to do this change. I guess the thing is simply waiting to see if the story content feels authentic when it's released. At least in this case we won't really know what was discarded or what parts we missed like SG.

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

Is it just the reason that they do not look alike?

Katie pale, Will+Leia dark.................

Helen and Dylan dark blonde.........

 

[New Kid]

Well shit, is it gonna start from the beginning again? I mean, if Leia and the MC are not actually related to the family the story so far makes no sense, Leia would have left alongside the MC considering she didn't really get along with anyone other than him in the first place. Nor would they have a reason to return to the old town to solve the problems of the foster family who threw them out. Even if she remained, without the blood ties connecting them it's more likely she would be bitter and fester hate towards her foster family for throwing her brother out and become a member of a rival faction, or even establish her own to end them.

The rework already left a bitter taste as I really enjoyed the first version, and despite it having some nightmare inducing renders like Miru's old self, the story and the characters were interesting and I was looking forward to the next update when the rework news hit... Dunno why the developer keeps changing course so often during development, it's better to see it through and deliver a non-perfect, but finished story, instead of being stuck in this rework hell IMO.

 

[Maviarab]

Leia would have left alongside the MC considering she didn't really get along with anyone other than him in the first place.

????

it's more likely she would be bitter and fester hate towards her foster family for throwing her brother out

Umm...whut?

 

[sorco2003]

I agree, it will be different. The weight and importance of different acts will have different consequences. The story will need to go in the new direction whole heartedly. The question isn't one of change, but whether the change will be half hearted, or deeply integrated. If it's done well, does it matter that it's different? The only thing we lose is our expectations ...if it's done well. If it's just a fancier word for landlady, then it's a meaningless change. I can see a lot of ways to keep the story consistent in quality with the change, even if it goes in a different direction than "prodigal returns and fucks his whole family, except his dad who dies in a strange gardening accident".

I understand that the issues of taboo are changed a lot from people's epectations, but currently there's nothing in the game the is really taboo, maybe one massage that is creepy 2019 AVN trope style. It's certainly in an easier place to do this change. I guess the thing is simply waiting to see if the story content feels authentic when it's released. At least in this case we won't really know what was discarded or what parts we missed like SG.

I think this is where the crux of the matter lies, and I'm going to echo borrowed words "make things better". Anyone who has been following WIAB for a long time and/or forever knows that this was an incest story, but with twists and turns that made it more interesting than the rest. Dylan is the biggest example of what I am saying, despite his human mistakes, he is a great father and that is something you don't see anywhere.
So, what did the old guard expect? A different incest story, better than what we have perhaps.
As you say, to make it a cosmetic change is to do the same thing everyone does, to break the story now is to break the story we liked. It's the mental save that manga always keeps to facilitate the "but we're not really family" developments.

And that, it's lazy for what we've been having....

Expectations, you name that as if it wasn't a big deal, but precisely, the hype in a story is completely built on the expectations, without them, it's just another game.
Even so, we still don't know what it's about, how the change will be and what the future is, but if a change like this discards the 300 of us who have been on patreon for 17 months and earns 1000 new SS and 1000 new on Steam, well, congratulations to Ocean, WIAB will survive.

 

[Maviarab]

Anyone who has been following WIAB for a long time and/or forever knows that this was an incest story, but with twists and turns that made it more interesting than the rest.

to break the story now is to break the story we liked.

Expectations, you name that as if it wasn't a big deal, but precisely, the hype in a story is completely built on the expectations, without them, it's just another game.

All the above...is the crux of the issue. Well said.

 

[RNasc4444]

WIAB will survive.

Indeed. Like Bob said:

The story will need to go in the new direction whole heartedly.

And it will. I'm gonna speculate a bit here, but I think the new theme will be "adoption".

We will see how landlord Dylan and landlady Helen adopted our incestuous siblings. And my guess is in Season 2 the title will be reworked into something like "Where the adoptions began". I can already see the season starting with a flashback of a tiny House being adopted by the trees in a forest in Wollust after being abandoned by a Farm. That house grew up and adopted a pair of orphans, none other than landlord Dylan and landlady Helen. They have a child, who they name Katie. Then they adopt a Pool. A few years into young Katie's life they decide to adopt a new pair of orphaned siblings (mirroring their young selves) and they all become roommates and landlords in the House where it all started.

But here is the twist, remember how the tiny House was abandoned by the old Farm? The House had a roommate too. And that House adopted landlady Helen's sister Scarlet and her future husband Uncle Joe. They had two little roommates of their own called Katerina and Lucas. That's how the Family came to be. And then we move on to where Season 1 left off with all the backstory we needed.

"You don't turn your back on family. Even when they do." -Dom Toretto

EDIT:

 

[Tremonia]

"You don't turn your back on family. Even when they do." -Dom Toretto

That's one of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard.

 

[RNasc4444]

That's one of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard.

 

[Maviarab]

Indeed. Like Bob said:

And it will. I'm gonna speculate a bit here, but I think the new theme will be "adoption".

We will see how landlord Dylan and landlady Helen adopted our incestuous siblings. And my guess is in Season 2 the title will be reworked into something like "Where the adoptions began". I can already see the season starting with a flashback of a tiny House being adopted by the trees in a forest in Wollust after being abandoned by a Farm. That house grew up and adopted a pair of orphans, none other than landlord Dylan and landlady Helen. They have a child, who they name Katie. Then they adopt a Pool. A few years into young Katie's life they decide to adopt a new pair of orphaned siblings (mirroring their young selves) and they all become roommates and landlords in the House where it all started.

But here is the twist, remember how the tiny House was abandoned by the old Farm? The House had a roommate too. And that House adopted landlady Helen's sister Scarlet and her future husband Uncle Joe. They had two little roommates of their own called Katerina and Lucas. That's how the Family came to be. And then we move on to where Season 1 left off with all the backstory we needed.

"You don't turn your back on family. Even when they do." -Dom Toretto

EDIT:

Gold Nasc, absolute gold!

 

[yossa999]

Indeed. Like Bob said:

And it will. I'm gonna speculate a bit here, but I think the new theme will be "adoption".

We will see how landlord Dylan and landlady Helen adopted our incestuous siblings. And my guess is in Season 2 the title will be reworked into something like "Where the adoptions began". I can already see the season starting with a flashback of a tiny House being adopted by the trees in a forest in Wollust after being abandoned by a Farm. That house grew up and adopted a pair of orphans, none other than landlord Dylan and landlady Helen. They have a child, who they name Katie. Then they adopt a Pool. A few years into young Katie's life they decide to adopt a new pair of orphaned siblings (mirroring their young selves) and they all become roommates and landlords in the House where it all started.

But here is the twist, remember how the tiny House was abandoned by the old Farm? The House had a roommate too. And that House adopted landlady Helen's sister Scarlet and her future husband Uncle Joe. They had two little roommates of their own called Katerina and Lucas. That's how the Family came to be. And then we move on to where Season 1 left off with all the backstory we needed.

"You don't turn your back on family. Even when they do." -Dom Toretto

EDIT:

The fuck if I understood a damn thing, but it's very interesting. But.. Why it is Katie who was adopted? I thought they adopted those two little shits.

 

[sorco2003]

The fuck if I understood a damn thing, but it's very interesting. But.. Why it is Katie who was adopted? I thought they adopted those two little shits.

It´s because Mate helps Mcqueen in Radiators Springs... (naaahhhh he said "they have a child" and then they adopted a pool, maybe deadpool, i misses that )

 

[Ray_D]

Indeed. Like Bob said:

And it will. I'm gonna speculate a bit here, but I think the new theme will be "adoption".

We will see how landlord Dylan and landlady Helen adopted our incestuous siblings. And my guess is in Season 2 the title will be reworked into something like "Where the adoptions began". I can already see the season starting with a flashback of a tiny House being adopted by the trees in a forest in Wollust after being abandoned by a Farm. That house grew up and adopted a pair of orphans, none other than landlord Dylan and landlady Helen. They have a child, who they name Katie. Then they adopt a Pool. A few years into young Katie's life they decide to adopt a new pair of orphaned siblings (mirroring their young selves) and they all become roommates and landlords in the House where it all started.

But here is the twist, remember how the tiny House was abandoned by the old Farm? The House had a roommate too. And that House adopted landlady Helen's sister Scarlet and her future husband Uncle Joe. They had two little roommates of their own called Katerina and Lucas. That's how the Family came to be. And then we move on to where Season 1 left off with all the backstory we needed.

"You don't turn your back on family. Even when they do." -Dom Toretto

EDIT:

you were doing well until you threw in that phrase from Fast and Furious.

 

[RNasc4444]

The fuck if I understood a damn thing, but it's very interesting. But.. Why it is Katie who was adopted? I thought they adopted those two little shits.

I may have had a bit too much to drink on the dinner out with friends...the whole thing made more sense when I was typing it

 

[Maviarab]

I may have had a bit too much to drink on the dinner out with friends...the whole thing made more sense when I was typing it

I understood it...it was wild...but understood it. But hey, it's no more nonsensical than Ocean's plots at the moment. If it helps, I was actually envisioning your story in my head

 

[Tremonia]

Still bullshit.

 

[Matt2012021]

This VN is how old and he changing again don't really get it but it's his Vn/game kinda feel sorry for the people who are really invested in it they stick with it only for to get it's 3rd change hopefully he won't have to make any more but this oceans so wouldn't hold my breath

 

[weezal]

This VN is how old and he changing again don't really get it but it's his Vn/game kinda feel sorry for the people who are really invested in it they stick with it only for to get it's 3rd change hopefully he won't have to make any more but this oceans so wouldn't hold my breath

fr