VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Dr.TSoni]

ohhh sorry if it wasn't very clear... if it was a direct attack to Vidal the king of Pervert
But, dont worry... we are bros

More than anything I'm guilty of both XD
Since we're on the subject, is Miru/Katie still possible?

 

[BobTheDuck]

More than anything I'm guilty of both XD
Since we're on the subject, is Miru/Katie still possible?

I'd assume so, there's no reason why the open relationship would dropped because of the change. But it'd be Miru/Katie/Zoey

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I'd assume so, there's no reason why the open relationship would dropped because of the change. But it'd be Miru/Katie/Zoey

 

[yossa999]

just don't think after so many years of being NC (a lot by choice) that if it was adopted family (and he knew...knowing is key here) that he would literally drop everything and be off the day after....his real mother in an accident and his sister calls him out of the blue...makes perfect sense.....the other way....really doesn't to me.

Let me check if I understood you correctly. Are you saying that MC's decision to put everything aside and blindly rush to help the woman who raised, loved and cared for him depended solely on whether they were related by blood?

 

[Maviarab]

which I didn't pay attention to because Katie exists, and I guess I won't pay attention to it in the future because Katie exists.

Preach...

Let me check if I understood you correctly. Are you saying that MC's decision to put everything aside and blindly rush to help the woman who raised, loved and cared for him depended solely on whether they were related by blood?

Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

 

[yossa999]

Preach...


Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

Nope, I read what you wrote. You say the MC's reaction should be different depending on whether they are related by blood or not otherwise it doesn't make sense to you.
Let's peel it from the husk and leave only the essence.

A blood related mother - it makes sense to drop everything and run to her.
An adoptive mother - there’s no need to rush, she’s just a second-class mother.

Otherwise there is no point in even mentioning this difference. The fact that he never cared about her the last ten years doesn't matter because this is the same person he never cared about the last ten years, regardless of whether they are blood related or not.

What am I conveniently forgetting now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Maviarab]

she’s just a second-class mother.

Your words not mine, don't put them in my mouth please. You should be well aware by now, I mean what I say and I certainly say exactly what I mean.

Again, if he doesn't know...then I've already said, twice...there is no current change in dynamic.

 

[yossa999]

Your words not mine, don't put them in my mouth please. You should be well aware by now, I mean what I say and I certainly say exactly what I mean.

I’m watching s7 of Suits, and I learned that the outcome of the trial is a matter of interpretation of words

 

[Maviarab]

I’m watching s7 of Suits, and I learned that the outcome of the trial is a matter of interpretation of words

Not something ever watched, I'm not a big TV watcher, never have been really, a few select things aside.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Nope, I read what you wrote. You say the MC's reaction should be different depending on whether they are related by blood or not otherwise it doesn't make sense to you.
Let's peel it from the husk and leave only the essence.

A blood related mother - it makes sense to drop everything and run to her.
An adoptive mother - there’s no need to rush, she’s just a second-class mother.

Otherwise there is no point in even mentioning this difference. The fact that he never cared about her the last ten years doesn't matter because this is the same person he never cared about the last ten years, regardless of whether they are blood related or not.

What am I conveniently forgetting now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Preach...


Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...

I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.

 

[txe320]

Anyway, no matter what, we all agree it's not going in the right direction at all, I really hope Ocean will reconsider, and I clearly hope he won't remake it from chapter 1 too because if he does that, it's gonna be a shit show sadly.

 

[yossa999]

Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.
View attachment 3860237

I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates , so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.

 

[yossa999]

I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.

We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates , loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates , so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.

We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates , loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.

True, but with Ocean there's always the fear that things will change for the worse.
A sort of Ocean's bias XD

 

[yossa999]

True, but with Ocean there's always the fear that things will change for the worse.
A sort of Ocean's bias XD

Ocean's bias? Have you seen The Walking Dead series or, dare I say, GoT?

 

[Maviarab]

roommates

 

[sorco2003]

We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates , loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.

Are you using the yeti to prove the existence of the Loch Ness monster?

 

[RNasc4444]

So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.

I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.

I partially disagree on your topic in general, but specifically on WiAB I completely agree. Just look at the relationship between William and Dylan which has that "I think you did a shitty job but you're still my father" feel to it. A feeling that, I fear, would become resentment in an adoption situation.