VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

Where the hell did you get the idea that they were "kids?" He creampied Mon at a party before he left, was he a virgin before that? They were 16. I don't know about what BTD said, I've only played the current modded version, but it was pretty clear they were fucking like bunnies before getting caught by Katie. The loss of her lover and twin almost killed Leia.

I'm in my 30's now. To me an 18 year old is a kid

Yeah I kinda got the impression their relationship was3rd base or beyond that. But Bob is right, if we're going by the old version they hadn't banged yet.

The thing that makes me think that Ocean's kept that part of the plot the same is because in old WiaB, the make up sex was the first time, and it was still only oral. The way Leia is Jealous of Mon because Mon got dicked, would be so much more green and envious like her eyes if Leia was still a virgin and Mon is stealing 'her' man. And Leia's comment about not sleeping with anyone for 15 yars or whatever it was to get a car like hers - It could be taken as her way to dig at Willi that she has still been faithful to him waiting for her first time. Leia is the one with the infatuation she's not grown out of.

The way Katie teases Willi about putting his hand up Leia's skirt where Miru might hear, while being adamant she's not foolish to say anything to 'them' (presumably Helen and Dylan) suggests that maybe Willi left for other reasons. Remember that he was beating people up, talks about all the illegal things he and Leia got up to, and he found Uncle Joe's weapons cache. In this new version, Willi could've left because of illegal violent things that escalated. And the people involved are targeting Leia to get him back to get revenge.

There's all kinds of possibilities. In this version, it's not been shown why. In the old version, Dylan and Helen already knew about Willi and Leia, there's the scene where it all comes out (but Willi still acts stunned that Dylan knows at the courthouse.)

Anyway... we'll find out more soon. I'm more excited to find out what the deal with the axe and handcannon is about. Willi'll get some and then some more quickly enough.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

The fact that she's the best manipulator of the three "siblings" is kinda nuts. She flies under the radar as a kid.

Leia might think otherwise, but Katie is the smartest of the 3. Especially in social situations. Makes sense that the Zane family had Katie make first contact with Nami and Nika to get a reading on them in SG.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

30s,60...Anyone in their 90s out there want to win the seniority competion?

Sometimes in the morning when I first wake up I feel like I'm ninety, does that still count?

Yeah he knows what keeps people around. He knows what they want.
Doesn't matter if she's 18
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Or 40
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[Maccabbee]

The thing that makes me think that Ocean's kept that part of the plot the same is because in old WiaB, the make up sex was the first time, and it was still only oral. The way Leia is Jealous of Mon because Mon got dicked, would be so much more green and envious like her eyes if Leia was still a virgin and Mon is stealing 'her' man. And Leia's comment about not sleeping with anyone for 15 yars or whatever it was to get a car like hers - It could be taken as her way to dig at Willi that she has still been faithful to him waiting for her first time. Leia is the one with the infatuation she's not grown out of.

The way Katie teases Willi about putting his hand up Leia's skirt where Miru might hear, while being adamant she's not foolish to say anything to 'them' (presumably Helen and Dylan) suggests that maybe Willi left for other reasons. Remember that he was beating people up, talks about all the illegal things he and Leia got up to, and he found Uncle Joe's weapons cache. In this new version, Willi could've left because of illegal violent things that escalated. And the people involved are targeting Leia to get him back to get revenge.

There's all kinds of possibilities. In this version, it's not been shown why. In the old version, Dylan and Helen already knew about Willi and Leia, there's the scene where it all comes out (but Willi still acts stunned that Dylan knows at the courthouse.)

Anyway... we'll find out more soon. I'm more excited to find out what the deal with the axe and handcannon is about. Willi'll get some and then some more quickly enough.

That's a lot to think about, thanks. I get your points, and don't disagree (yet ). I thought it was clear W left because of the blackmail from Katie, but the timing is odd. He left after leaving Mon like that, when he realized he couldn't quit Leia, right?

Yeah, they were into shady shit, even more shady shit then connected teens normally do. All the siblings were raised very "hunger games", ultra-competitive, violent, and to see the world from a chess perspective, where you figure out the moves to make to achieve you goals. They're almost raised to be sociopaths, but still have a conscience (well, at least W and K do).

Dylan definitely caused the bad relationships between the kids, at least between L and K, W was more caught in the middle.

 

[Darkdevil66]

So, was Katie just jealous, was she making a power-play against Leia, was it some kind of weird flirting for her, or all of the above?

Not it's because Leia & William have always been monsters

Old version :

New :

 

[sorco2003]

Leia might think otherwise, but Katie is the smartest of the 3. Especially in social situations. Makes sense that the Zane family had Katie make first contact with Nami and Nika to get a reading on them in SG.

As for her own characteristics, in Ocean's words "Katie is too sweet and the old story didn't do her justice" we could intuit that Leia is indeed "smarter" (come on, a criminal empire being a woman is not built with luck alone) but Katie keeps empathy which makes her "better" in aspects such as social ones... and living with crime lords for 20 years (SG chronology) teaches you the necessary tricks.

 

[Darkdevil66]

ATTACK MIRU ! ATTACK !
​

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

while being adamant she's not foolish to say anything to 'them' (presumably Helen and Dylan) suggests that maybe Willi left for other reasons. Remember that he was beating people up, talks about all the illegal things he and Leia got up to, and he found Uncle Joe's weapons cache. In this new version, Willi could've left because of illegal violent things that escalated. And the people involved are targeting Leia to get him back to get revenge.

Katie might not have blabbed, but did William know that? Did she even want him to know that back then? Did she like having power over him back in the day even if she would not act on it? William is smarter in his Jason Momoa form,immedietly figuring out Donna for example, but we don't know his reasons in this build yet.

 

[Maccabbee]

Katie might not have blabbed, but did William know that? Did she even want him to know that back then? Did she like having power over him back in the day even if she would not act on it? William is smarter in his Jason Momoa form,immedietly figuring out Donna for example, but we don't know his reasons in this build yet.

Well, I think there was an element of panic back then, too, as I doubt that he ever confronted what their special relationship meant. The fact that he was trying out a thing with Mon, and then how that made him feel? That is a sharp kick in the reality check.

(sorry to add this, but didn't want to spam):

Not it's because Leia & William have always been monsters

Old version :

New :

It's said in-game that William was bad to Katie, but mostly with Leia. Will had a much better relationship with Katie when Leia wasn't involved. That is what leads me to the conclusion that the rivalry/hostility was between Leia and Katie, with WIlliam caught in the middle. It may well have been as much about a proto love triangle, with the way Leia and W felt about each other, why not assume K would feel the same way? Also the rivalry caused by Dylan's competitive games.

A lot of the problems between Katie and the MC are definitely earned by the cruel treatment Leia and W put her through. A lot more is caused by W leaving, which also abandoned K as much as Leia.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Not it's because Leia & William have always been monsters

Old version :

New :

True, but in the new version the "bullying" towards Katie seems reduced since we are shown as bibi playing together

Bonus bibi Katie enjoying Leia's defeat

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

As for her own characteristics, in Ocean's words "Katie is too sweet and the old story didn't do her justice" we could intuit that Leia is indeed "smarter" (come on, a criminal empire being a woman is not built with luck alone) but Katie keeps empathy which makes her "better" in aspects such as social ones... and living with crime lords for 20 years (SG chronology) teaches you the necessary tricks.

Oh for sure. I'm not saying Leia is dumb. All the Zane kids aren't stupid. Leia's problem is her over zealousness and ruthless attitude towards people she doesn't care about are great for business, but her emotions flaring up gets the better of her. Katie is sweet at heart but feels she needs to play tough and manipulate so she doesn't end up as that bullied girl she used to be.

In the old build we get to see more of the true Katie starting toward the end of the camping trip till the end of ch6.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

True, but in the new version the "bullying" towards Katie seems reduced since we are shown as bibi playing together
View attachment 4908359 View attachment 4908361 View attachment 4908362
Bonus bibi Katie enjoying Leia's defeat
View attachment 4908363

She always wanted a loving bond from Leia and William, which is why she was hurt even more by there bullying. The sweeter moments like this still exist even despite that though. She wasn't tormented all the time and she still wanted to enjoy moments with her family.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

She always wanted a loving bond from Leia and William, which is why she was hurt even more by there bullying. The sweeter moments like this still exist even despite that though. She wasn't tormented all the time and she still wanted to enjoy moments with her family.

Unfortunately I suspect that this is one of those aspects that have been watered down by the remake.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Unfortunately I suspect that this is one of those aspects that have been watered down by the remake.

Yeah I'm always afraid of what might happen. Ocean was an unorganized spaz with random jumps making the old build but he knew exactly what dynamics he wanted from characters. Hoping those won't get compromised.
Miru is way better, with Katie and Leia being pretty spot on so far so hope still stands. But he has been under a bit of pressure since his last releases so the fear of dynamics between characters watering down still lingers.

 

[D K 2 5 V N]

I'm here to restore balance.

View attachment 4907992

(My honest reaction when i remember that scene lol)

 

[BobTheDuck]

That's a lot to think about, thanks. I get your points, and don't disagree (yet ). I thought it was clear W left because of the blackmail from Katie, but the timing is odd. He left after leaving Mon like that, when he realized he couldn't quit Leia, right?

Yeah, they were into shady shit, even more shady shit then connected teens normally do. All the siblings were raised very "hunger games", ultra-competitive, violent, and to see the world from a chess perspective, where you figure out the moves to make to achieve you goals. They're almost raised to be sociopaths, but still have a conscience (well, at least W and K do).

Dylan definitely caused the bad relationships between the kids, at least between L and K, W was more caught in the middle.

Katie might not have blabbed, but did William know that? Did she even want him to know that back then? Did she like having power over him back in the day even if she would not act on it? William is smarter in his Jason Momoa form,immedietly figuring out Donna for example, but we don't know his reasons in this build yet.

I'm not saying that this isn't the same in the new version, but it might not be. Katie might be blackmailing Willi over other things that we're yet to find out about. The old version didn't have Willi holding axes or Helen holding revolvers. Katie teasing Willi about Leia feels low intensity and casual compared to their talk after the pool scene. So the motivations for the new version might be different, and there might be no blackmail over Leia, but blackmail over revealing what Willi was doing elsewhere. Old version, Katie blackmailed Willi over kissing Leia, I don't think it will be so innocent this time, and it might not even be sexual. I mean, they carved the tree right? It's not like Katie's the only one who could find out - and there has to be a big reason for Helen's no guns thing, when she's packing, and Dylan has the rifle/shotgun can't remember which.

Maybe I just secretly want it to be a little more Tarantino, NaturalBorn Killers/Reservoir Dogs style.

 

[sorco2003]

I'm not saying that this isn't the same in the new version, but it might not be. Katie might be blackmailing Willi over other things that we're yet to find out about. The old version didn't have Willi holding axes or Helen holding revolvers. Katie teasing Willi about Leia feels low intensity and casual compared to their talk after the pool scene. So the motivations for the new version might be different, and there might be no blackmail over Leia, but blackmail over revealing what Willi was doing elsewhere. Old version, Katie blackmailed Willi over kissing Leia, I don't think it will be so innocent this time, and it might not even be sexual. I mean, they carved the tree right? It's not like Katie's the only one who could find out - and there has to be a big reason for Helen's no guns thing, when she's packing, and Dylan has the rifle/shotgun can't remember which.

Maybe I just secretly want it to be a little more Tarantino, NaturalBorn Killers/Reservoir Dogs style.

Don't be disappointed when the time comes

 

[BobTheDuck]

Don't be disappointed when the time comes

Darn reaction limit. I won't be, because KATIE ...but there better be some fisticuffs in both of Ocean's games, raise the blood pressure in other ways as well

 

[Maccabbee]

She always wanted a loving bond from Leia and William, which is why she was hurt even more by there bullying. The sweeter moments like this still exist even despite that though. She wasn't tormented all the time and she still wanted to enjoy moments with her family.

Also, for those who thought that old bullying was extreme (locking someone in a cafe or decapitating a teddy bear), have you ever had siblings? That's not that extreme.

 

[Maviarab]

Well, old version they hadn't, which was why Katie was really surprised when Willi got affectionate in the back of the van

You mean the bedroom with a dildo?