Dr.TSoni
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BobTheDuck
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MIkedante
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I'm just surprised, that Ocean went so far with this "Mafia bullshit", just to have no problems in future on those platforms, because we have still on Patreon titles like "Golden Mean" or "Amnesia", where you can even on start choose all protagonists to be regular family members, not to mention the one of biggest milkers ever DC with his "Summertime Saga" (which with small patch goes into full family stuff) is still there too! That's why I can't understand the need of all those changes, which altering the plot so much, that gives no sense.
Capt_Kirk
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Duckyyyyyyyyy !You missed the memo? Ocean said on discord that Nika is not related to anyone that has had screen time in WiaB, yet. THat means there will be someone he's related to that we'll see, but they haven't appeared. This means, Nika is most likely the child of one of the antagonist families, or collateral damage. I'd put my money on the antagonist offspring in a gang + NTR storyline.
But this means:
- Willi is not Nika's dad
- Leia is not Nika's mom
- Miru isn't
- Noji isn't
- Katie isn't
- Donna isn't
- Daphne isn't
- Zoey isn't
- Gefritzel isn't
etc. If we've seen them, Nika's not related.
The reason I bring that up is that there is no guarantee of the expected outcome of an action in WiaB leading to a consequence in SG. Some things seem clear (like Ayua existing, and Miru, Amber, Noji, Zoey, Stefan, Leia, Katie, Willi, Gefritzel, Elena, Emilio, Nicole and Dani surviving) While others are less clear (actual family connections).
Jenna could be spreading a rumour because she was jealous SHE wasn't getting coaching from Willi. Just like rumours about Willi and Leia were spread after Willi left. I have to remind myself that any person in a mafia game making a statement is quite possibly doing so with an ulterior motive, lying, or just messing with the truth, because they're all playing chess with someone in their mind and they all think they're immensely clever.
Additionally, with the consequences not being directly correlated, this means in SG is Ayua is now a lewdable option. It also means that Willi might indeed have relations with half the town, but he doesn't have certain children. Ocean doesn't have to make every single load from William stay on target. Given how regularly he crempies Miru without protection, he clearly isn't capablae of guaranteeing pregnancy with every shot of lover juice.
This suggests both that WIlli does have offspring, but the fan service of Willi being the daddy of Wollust won't take place.
Man, you just can't let it go. It's NO LONGER PART OF THE BACKSTORY. This is the new canon. THere is no old backstory in the game anymore. This is crying over spilt milk.
As a writer, I would ask you to temper your emphatic! Enthusiam! For! EXCLAMATIONS! Please, it's not this big a deal that every sentence needs an exclamation. Hard to take your stance seriously when the sky is falling every single sentence.
I get what has been lost of the original story. But it is lost, and it is not returning. Arguing why it was better or worse, arguing why patreon, SS etc are evil ...none of that changes that this is what we have and this is all there will be of WiaB moving forward. As a writer, you should be critiquing the internal cohesion (or lack thereof) of the narative. You should be discussing the internal inconsistencies, not the inconsistencies to know what is YOUR headcanon.
Old WiaB is gone.
Yes, the music license got revoked on him. He'll likely redo one by the time Season 1 ends early access is my guess.
at least the one positive thing coming out of this rewrite was that Mc and Nami are not related to any Zane but following the new canon , it could mean that Mc and Nami are the survivors of 2 families that got wipe out getting adopted by Nojiko mirroring the Willian and Leia story .
this could be the answer to why Summer disappear ! , she was not supposed to get close to Mc and Nami
because of ....................
X2JZcf
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The Patreon page for WHIAB was destroyed, changes are needed so that it doesn't affect SG page, and SS doesn't delete the profile, since I is prohibited there too.
LHDLLB
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Fully agree. But one has to imagine why Ocean wait só long to give the word of god , and choose to do so now. How much this change affected the story ? But yeah, is great it gives him more room and flexibility. But Miru is on the pill, we don't know how effective William love juice is. For the rest I fully agree. Except maybe NTR, I don't think Ocean will canonise any NTR.You missed the memo? Ocean said on discord that Nika is not related to anyone that has had screen time in WiaB, yet. THat means there will be someone he's related to that we'll see, but they haven't appeared. This means, Nika is most likely the child of one of the antagonist families, or collateral damage. I'd put my money on the antagonist offspring in a gang + NTR storyline.
But this means:
- Willi is not Nika's dad
- Leia is not Nika's mom
- Miru isn't
- Noji isn't
- Katie isn't
- Donna isn't
- Daphne isn't
- Zoey isn't
- Gefritzel isn't
etc. If we've seen them, Nika's not related.
The reason I bring that up is that there is no guarantee of the expected outcome of an action in WiaB leading to a consequence in SG. Some things seem clear (like Ayua existing, and Miru, Amber, Noji, Zoey, Stefan, Leia, Katie, Willi, Gefritzel, Elena, Emilio, Nicole and Dani surviving) While others are less clear (actual family connections).
Jenna could be spreading a rumour because she was jealous SHE wasn't getting coaching from Willi. Just like rumours about Willi and Leia were spread after Willi left. I have to remind myself that any person in a mafia game making a statement is quite possibly doing so with an ulterior motive, lying, or just messing with the truth, because they're all playing chess with someone in their mind and they all think they're immensely clever.
Additionally, with the consequences not being directly correlated, this means in SG is Ayua is now a lewdable option. It also means that Willi might indeed have relations with half the town, but he doesn't have certain children. Ocean doesn't have to make every single load from William stay on target. Given how regularly he crempies Miru without protection, he clearly isn't capablae of guaranteeing pregnancy with every shot of lover juice.
This suggests both that WIlli does have offspring, but the fan service of Willi being the daddy of Wollust won't take place.
Man, you just can't let it go. It's NO LONGER PART OF THE BACKSTORY. This is the new canon. THere is no old backstory in the game anymore. This is crying over spilt milk.
As a writer, I would ask you to temper your emphatic! Enthusiam! For! EXCLAMATIONS! Please, it's not this big a deal that every sentence needs an exclamation. Hard to take your stance seriously when the sky is falling every single sentence.
I get what has been lost of the original story. But it is lost, and it is not returning. Arguing why it was better or worse, arguing why patreon, SS etc are evil ...none of that changes that this is what we have and this is all there will be of WiaB moving forward. As a writer, you should be critiquing the internal cohesion (or lack thereof) of the narative. You should be discussing the internal inconsistencies, not the inconsistencies to know what is YOUR headcanon.
Old WiaB is gone.
Yes, the music license got revoked on him. He'll likely redo one by the time Season 1 ends early access is my guess.
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LHDLLB
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The best thing of this change for me is the opportunity of the storires mirroring each other. That can be real great. I am hoping for Nika and Nami be the kid of a family William killed. I still hate the political marriage and the don't fuck your not sister mob law but if Ocean can make it work by the end of the season I will even pretend that never was incest in this games
LHDLLB
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The best thing of this change for me is the opportunity of the storires mirroring each other. That can be real great. I am hoping for Nika and Nami be the kid of a family William killed. I still hate the political marriage and the don't fuck your not sister mob law but if Ocean can make it work by the end of the season I will even pretend that never was incest in this games
Dr.TSoni
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There are some interactions with Helen, but I'm afraid your question is now fundamentally wrong.
BobTheDuck
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Oh yeah, I'm on board for all of that. I don't mind this change at all. In my mind SG will make more sense than it ever has, just I hope Ocean avoids the idea of making it exactly the same issues. I like the idea of the consequences flowing through (the interesting one for me is the mention of arms dealing to Iran, and Sonya's family having to flee Iran)... there's a bunch of great potential for further development indeed.
Well, when is the right time to make a decision? Ocean made the decision a while a go, but couldn't tell it in devlogs - could you imagine the backlash on him announcing it without even a release of WiaB to show what the new story would be? It'd be a ballsy move to do that.
As far as canonising - if I chose a Katie ending, Ayua still has to come from somewhere, so it becomes a mini-harem canon. It's possible to avoid Miru so far, but at some point there has to be some kind of explanation. If you are with Katie, is Dylan then Ayua's dad? Lucas? And if you're with Miru, Ayua is Willi's? At some point there will be some things that are canon that people don't like for their own playthrough.
Yep!
Well yes and no. She's no longer mom, but has plenty of scenes.
We really need the facepalm emoji back. It might have flown over your head, but I and others already have critisised the incoherent heap of rubbish this update represents.
-For example, that with the new background and info available, Willi has no believable logical or emotional reason to return to Wollust and the persons who treated him like a disposable chip and betrayed him repeatedly. (e.g Helen let him rot in prison despite Willi being framed for something he did not do, knowing he might not survive)
-The grating, laughable declarations of a person a that a person b was never ever related to them and they never liked person b at all. (And then trying to get into their pants)
- Willi and Miru never had any problems with their former lives in the city they now reside in. So it is obvious that the Wollust Mafia has few/no influence there or the costs of any kind of revenge there against Willi would be higher than any gains. FFS, why should they return into a city were Willi might be killed, maimed or thrown out at sight for persons who repeatedly were described as not liking him and neither him liking them. (Stupidity all around, afternoon soap opera logic)
- Unlike in the old background, where the Zanes were a mostly normal family with some connections to semi and illegal activities (e..g Uncle Joe), now the Zanes are hardcore criminal, mustache twirling Mafiosi from the start, something Willi is very much aware off. But suddenly Willi is completely surprised by this developments when he returns home. Blatant proof that the returning Willi is still based on the old background.
These are just a few examples for you
LHDLLB
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Yeah, fully on board with this idea too. At least SG can make sense.
While I agree with the, certain things will be canon part, they are not as problematic as NTR. Regarding time of decisions I agree, but Ocean was more ballsy with the devlog that made clear there was no incest anymore, and then sneakly changing that too. My point is that it was almost canonise by the fandom, for years, and Ocean did not said anything until now... is hard not to think of the implications. Not that it matters now, if William ever was Nika's dad he no longuer is.
Edit: nice cath on the Iran arms
RNasc4444
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Y'all have been hopelessly infected by porn brain. Celebrating these changes is wild when they actively make the story more retarded than ever before.
Has a single one of you considered, for a single second, the implications of taking in stolen children? Do you not realize that every single human being in a semi civilized country has an ID that is needed for basically anything? Do you not realize that from the moment their families were killed and the kids bodies weren't recovered they became missing persons? Do you not realize how flimsy a fake ID is? One background check from any law enforcement will set off red flags. To think these stolen children could be operating on false identities their whole lives without raising any red flags is insane. Especially when the FBI is already shown to be onto them.
Now let's consider they are using their real identities (which they seem to be) how in the ever loving fuck are they not getting immediately taken in by the state? How are they allowed to grow up with the family involved in the murder of their relatives? This monumental retardation has already infected WiAB and you want to do the same with Nami and the MC in SG? Contain the infection. Let the rot fester in only one game.
Y'all talk about stealing children like it's stealing a fucking pen from the supermarket.
BobTheDuck
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"Unlike in the old background". See? You can't let it go. Sure complain about what you consider a pile of stinking lukewarm shit, but we get that you preferred the old version, which isn't coming back. No way that you complain will turn back the clock, you're stuck at one time.
And at least half of this post is your extrapolations, based on what you dislike. Your extrapolations are just an opinion, not canon. You know nothing about the criminality or otherwise of William's life outside Wollust. Miru mentions she'll have to build a new network and that she's been bankrolling William as his sugar mommy. She didn't make that sort of money as a personal trainer and WIlliam knows it. So there's not this idyllic life away from Wollust.
Prior to this update, how many theories were there floating around that Helen was the source of the families money, because DYlan was just a mechanic? HOw many people speculated that they were a gang themselves? It's all there if you go and search back several months in the thread.
ANd the Wollust Mafia? It's bigger than that. The Zanes have family outside of Wollust running their own things. The other families aren't all in Wollust.
As far as the criticism of Willi's reaction, yes it's been stitched in. I hope OCean sorts it out and gives us more compelling characterisations of why William has emotional connections. But I also understand that steering the ship at this point requires a clean break. He has time to make it plausible or not.
Continue pointing out the flaws of the current game as much as you like, you're still not getting the old game back, at it seems tha Steam is getting a good response. So why continue referencing the old version as though you can convince anyone of anything about the old version being superior?
The old version is dead. The sooner you get over your denial and accept it, the sooner you can find maybe another game to be angry about.
Out of reactions, but yes. And part of that is, Ocean couldn't just announce the change without delivering something to show the change. I'm sure the announcement would have been worse. SOme of the changes need refining, some of the edges are rough, but overall, I can see it developing.
Honestly, it's the simplest thing for a mafia family to forge documents. This is a lazy excuse for why it doesn't make sense. Official ID? I only got one when I needed a passport. I don't drive. Where I live, a natural born citizen only gets a birth certificate. Proving I am me is hard. I'm self employed, so none of the financial stuff eve really ties me down. Until I hit 18, there was nothing other than the birth certificate. And, yeah, the birth certificate has no photo to ID me for obvious reasons
Not everywhere has the insane requirements for a police state as some parts of the world do today.
Second argument against you point - people fall between the cracks. I'm sure you've heard news about undocumented immigrants. It's a thing. SOmehow they can still get an education. Do citizens even realise if they go for a jog without any ID, they're undocumented if they get pulled up and stopped? And missing people, human trafficking. It'd be great if that wasn't an issue, but it is.
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Ducky, pardon, but are you deliberately obtuse to rile us critics up or are you really this dense? It has nothing to do with being stuck on the old background, becuase I highlighted the stupidity inherent in the new(!) background in that pert of my post. You simply ripp some words completely out of context, because you have no answer to our well-explained critic. You simply try to shift the topic since you have no argumentative counter to our observatiion that no logical reason exists in the new canon why Willi should ever return to Wollust.
Sure, if you say so. The fact remains that Willi and Miru have zero problems with the Mafia in the city they live! They do not hide, they are not harrassed, they have good friends. In the 7-10 years Willi and Miru are there going by the know background, no matter if old or new, they had no problems with "La Familia" despite several of them knowing where Willi is! This leaves only two options: a)the Wollust Mafia has few to no influence in that city or b) any revenge done to Willi would be more expensive than any gains.
Imagine the revelation in the eventual final chapter of WIAB that William only fires blanks and can father no children.You missed the memo? Ocean said on discord that Nika is not related to anyone that has had screen time in WiaB, yet. THat means there will be someone he's related to that we'll see, but they haven't appeared. This means, Nika is most likely the child of one of the antagonist families, or collateral damage. I'd put my money on the antagonist offspring in a gang + NTR storyline.
But this means:
- Willi is not Nika's dad
- Leia is not Nika's mom
- Miru isn't
- Noji isn't
- Katie isn't
- Donna isn't
- Daphne isn't
- Zoey isn't
- Gefritzel isn't
etc. If we've seen them, Nika's not related.
The reason I bring that up is that there is no guarantee of the expected outcome of an action in WiaB leading to a consequence in SG. Some things seem clear (like Ayua existing, and Miru, Amber, Noji, Zoey, Stefan, Leia, Katie, Willi, Gefritzel, Elena, Emilio, Nicole and Dani surviving) While others are less clear (actual family connections).
Jenna could be spreading a rumour because she was jealous SHE wasn't getting coaching from Willi. Just like rumours about Willi and Leia were spread after Willi left. I have to remind myself that any person in a mafia game making a statement is quite possibly doing so with an ulterior motive, lying, or just messing with the truth, because they're all playing chess with someone in their mind and they all think they're immensely clever.
Additionally, with the consequences not being directly correlated, this means in SG is Ayua is now a lewdable option. It also means that Willi might indeed have relations with half the town, but he doesn't have certain children. Ocean doesn't have to make every single load from William stay on target. Given how regularly he crempies Miru without protection, he clearly isn't capablae of guaranteeing pregnancy with every shot of lover juice.
This suggests both that WIlli does have offspring, but the fan service of Willi being the daddy of Wollust won't take place.
Man, you just can't let it go. It's NO LONGER PART OF THE BACKSTORY. This is the new canon. THere is no old backstory in the game anymore. This is crying over spilt milk.
As a writer, I would ask you to temper your emphatic! Enthusiam! For! EXCLAMATIONS! Please, it's not this big a deal that every sentence needs an exclamation. Hard to take your stance seriously when the sky is falling every single sentence.
I get what has been lost of the original story. But it is lost, and it is not returning. Arguing why it was better or worse, arguing why patreon, SS etc are evil ...none of that changes that this is what we have and this is all there will be of WiaB moving forward. As a writer, you should be critiquing the internal cohesion (or lack thereof) of the narative. You should be discussing the internal inconsistencies, not the inconsistencies to know what is YOUR headcanon.
Old WiaB is gone.
Yes, the music license got revoked on him. He'll likely redo one by the time Season 1 ends early access is my guess.
On the subject of narrator reliability (you use the example of Jenna from SG), I think that is very pertinent to WIAB because EVERYONE seems to have ulterior motives.
In my previous posts about the secret Katie had over William before he left, I looked for at least two characters within the game who could confirm the validity of the statements made. Thus, dialogues from Katie, William, and Katarina confirm that (a) an intimate relationship between Willi/Katie was always strictly taboo; Willi/Leia much less so, (b) Willi/Katie tested that taboo by kissing as teenagers, (c) Katie held that knowledge over Willi, and (d) the threat of Katie divulging that knowledge was a contributory factor in Willi leaving.
There is another morsel of information that pops up in Ch 4 that, I think, is less clear cut. Willi constantly reinforces the notion that Katie will manipulate, act neutral but turn against you, and is an accomplished liar. Katie tells Willi that both Leia and he are earmarked for arranged marriages within the mob. Willi later has a choice to divulge this knowledge to Leia.
Katie is (so far) the only person to confide this knowledge. How does Willi (and hence us, the players) know Katie is telling the truth? We don't and won't until another character can independently confirm the story. Thus, can what Katie said be considered canonical yet?
RNasc4444
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Honestly, it's the simplest thing for a mafia family to forge documents. This is a lazy excuse for why it doesn't make sense. Official ID? I only got one when I needed a passport. I don't drive. Where I live, a natural born citizen only gets a birth certificate. Proving I am me is hard. I'm self employed, so none of the financial stuff eve really ties me down. Until I hit 18, there was nothing other than the birth certificate. And, yeah, the birth certificate has no photo to ID me for obvious reasons
Not everywhere has the insane requirements for a police state as some parts of the world do today.
Second argument against you point - people fall between the cracks. I'm sure you've heard news about undocumented immigrants. It's a thing. SOmehow they can still get an education. Do citizens even realise if they go for a jog without any ID, they're undocumented if they get pulled up and stopped? And missing people, human trafficking. It'd be great if that wasn't an issue, but it is.
Where in the hell do you live that buying a car (that needs insurance to be legal to drive) doesn't require ID?
That having a bank account doesn't require ID?
That asking for a loan doesn't require ID?
That buying property doesn't require ID?
That setting up a business doesn't require ID?
That applying to any job doesn't require ID and a full background check?
That applying to kindergarten, high school or college doesn't require ID?
Police state? Wtf?!?! The entire semi developped world is a police state now?
People fall between the cracks???!?!? In a homicide case where a family is killed but their kids don't seem to be amongst the deceased?
Jesus Christ Bob you're deflecting and grasping at straws to make sense of something that makes no sense.
EDIT: Oh fuck...my bad Bob! Please disregard everything I said. I should know better. I forgot "Mafia reasons". It all makes sense now.
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Oh, boy! This is a constant refrain for WIAB/SG - can Ocean make these background stories work?
LHDLLB
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Is not that I don't see the holes the changes brings and we do not need to go to ID to find them, the reasons William go back is still foggy at best. I am not saying the change is perfect, I am just saying that I can see how the change can be used to tell a story and that there are directions to it I like.