Is it really the reason ?First, let us exclude the outliers, those devs who have made over $100k, because in these cases it is realistic to justify these devs quit because they saved enough money to pursue something else.
There's a reason missing, one that is present in many of those who started as players. A reason that is probably the most shared one among creators who immediately put their game here: The desire to tell and share a story.So what is the dev/creators perspective when they decide to make something? There are few but common reasons why they even make these games or projects or content in general to begin with.
A general passion, pursuit of income, and/or escape from reality.
It's the issue I have with your thoughts. You clearly believe that, since it's an adult game, all is necessarily about porn and money. But I'm pretty sure that you are wrong. It was clearly the case for you, but you are far to represent all the creators ; I'm not even sure that you can claim to represent a quarter of them.I would just like to remind you I am not someone who thinks I have some unforeseen wisdom to share about pornography. Please. This is not the purpose of this post, I'm not going to try to convince anyone to stop jerking their cock or whatever, I still do it lol.
I'm just a normal dude who quit being a dev and I just want to give my own insights, as what I believe are the actual reasons devs quit.
Is it ?It should be quite clear that the field of pornography is just unaccepted in reality. The career is shameful, disgusting, unappreciated, and is considered of lower social status. To be clear, these are not my thoughts, but the general public, and most importantly, the families and friends of most people think this way.
I'm not really sure that peoples like DarkCookie, Adeptus Steve, Oni (who's among the eldest), Mr.Dots, and so many more who are doing this since six years or more, are uneasy with what they are doing.The deeper the dev goes into the escape of pornography, the more his conscious becomes at unease.
Hmm, welcome in the self proclaimed lands of freedom ?I would like to conclude the last two points by saying, the only reason creation or consumption of porn weighs heavily in a negative manner in the mind, is because we are so accustomed to society's view that porn is bad and disgusting.
Thanks captain obvious.FINAL THOUGHT: It is important for the consumer to understand the difference between them and the developer/creator.
Yes, what you say is true. It depends where you live, what type of family you have, what type of friends you have. Many variables.Most of this makes sense, but the "social stigma" point seems kind of overblown to me. I guess it depends where you live, but I don't think most people in the West consider porn shameful and disgusting. Now, does that mean you're going to tell grandma that you're making fucky sucky games? Probably not. But if your friends would disown you if they find out that you jerk it to foot porn or you're making hentai games, it's probably time to find better friends.
Great example. The stigma definitely applies not only in the workforce, but we can go further and possibly say professional environments in general.Yeah, in the west we've definitely moved past family and friends judging just because of kinks. Outside of more conservative areas anyways; the more conservative areas are still a stones-throw.
The social stigma does apply though, it's just mostly to employers. With the amount of fresh college grads with their heads in the clouds of wanting to become a game developer and student debt up to their neck; to fulfill that dream they will basically do and take anything. So employers can afford to be picky about who they pick because they can just throw a net and catch a game developer who has had no project potentially tainting them or bad stigma attached to that person. The indie adult game devs, their portfolio if it only has a porn game can basically kiss their chances goodbye of working outside of any adult game companies, which those companies also have the option of just throwing a net out at the closest college campus and grabbing a game dev so that indie devs chance of getting hired is even smaller.
The objective of the post was to provide the multiple reasons for why a dev may quit. I did not intend to mislead people, by saying all devs have all these reasons. I meant, all devs quit due to one or more of these reasons.I admit I only skimmed through OP's post but wtf is this part?
Do other devs feel that way? Seriously? Is there any data to support this bold claim?
I don't feel any of this and I would guess neither do vast majority of porn devs.
Is it really the reason ?
You don't make $100K/year (because month there's only one that achieve this) with your game if you don't have some passion. Not because passion is needed to make a game, but because it's what will make people want to support you.
Therefore, I'm pretty certain that at this level of success it's not a question of money, but more that they burned all the passion by overdoing it. What explain why, past some time, creators tend to produce less, they need longer break for the passion to grow again and, with it, for the desire to works on the game to come back. And it happen that for some, despite the long pauses they take, the passion just don't come back. What was a pleasure become now a constraint, and the more they have to force themselves working on the next update, the stronger their disgust for this occupation become.
There's a reason missing, one that is present in many of those who started as players. A reason that is probably the most shared one among creators who immediately put their game here: The desire to tell and share a story.
They have this idea that slowly grown in their mind while playing games after games. Those "what if it was this that happened instead", and others "wouldn't have been better if", that cross our mind while playing and that, at some point, become a whole story. And they just want to share it with the community.
There's a bit of passion in this of course, but absolutely not in the way you described it. It's not a desire to create, but an envy to share what's in their mind, and potentially also to give something back to the community. It's only with time, when they'll discover that they like doing this, that it will effectively turn into a passion. But not all will continue. Many will just stop after one game because, despite the pleasure they had while sharing their story, they just have no other story to share.
It's the issue I have with your thoughts. You clearly believe that, since it's an adult game, all is necessarily about porn and money. But I'm pretty sure that you are wrong. It was clearly the case for you, but you are far to represent all the creators ; I'm not even sure that you can claim to represent a quarter of them.
Take a game like Dreams of Desire by example. The further you go in the story, the more the story take over the lewd content. It's far to be the only game like this, around half of them have this switch after some times, and they don't loose fans or support when it happen ; it's generally the opposite, the game matured and now deserve some support. Plus, there's also those games that, right from the starts, put the story above the lewd, like The DeLuca Family or Heavy Five, to names only two.
I can have missed one or two, but globally those are the reasons.
- They spend more than they earn and can afford to loose ;
- They had a change in life (found a girlfriend, married, had a child, found a job, had a promotion, etc.) and don't anymore have enough free time ;
- They had a hard time in life (long time illness, loose of someone important for them, divorce, etc.) and lost all interest for what now looks like futility or, for the illness, don't have the strength to continue ;
- They started on a whim, with nothing more than an idea, and don't have the starts of a fucking clue about how to continue their story/game ;
- They burned all their passion, and it now bore them ;
- They hadn't a fucking clue about how fuckingly hard and time consuming it is, and can't take it anymore, or burned themselves out ;
- They died... because yes, alas, it happen for real.
Is it ?
I know that my own perspective can be biased, because I live in the land of Sade, the country where Lolita was published for the first time, where for the first time an erotic movie was displayed in all theaters, where almost all the major writers have also wrote some erotic poems or novels. Probably everyone at works know that I make mods for adult games, some members of my family know that for some times I wrote erotic novels, while my children and some of my friends know both, and none ever changed its attitude because of this.
So, yeah, my point of view is obviously different and it can partly be due to where I live. But I'm pretty sure that there's a big difference between what the society as a whole make you believe, and what individuals effectively think when they have to face the question. This especially since "the view of the society" is nothing more than, hmm... "the thoughts at first intent" of the majority, therefore what you think when you don't have to think about it.
As long as they don't have to effectively think about it, yeah, you're perhaps right, in the mind of people pornography is unacceptable. But I do believe that, when they have to face this nice and good guy, that they know for years, and therefore when they have to think about it, to question their thoughts, it's different ; "he is a nice guy, he have always been polite, funny and helpful, and now I learn that he'd been doing porn all this time... Does this mean that porn isn't as bad as it looks at first ?"
What would mean that in fact all this pressure don't come from the society, but from yourself. You (plural form) are feeling dirty not because you are doing something unacceptable, but because you are convinced that it's how you have to feel about yourself. You (still plural) believe that people will judge you if they knew, because yourself are judging you.
I'm not really sure that peoples like DarkCookie, Adeptus Steve, Oni (who's among the eldest), Mr.Dots, and so many more who are doing this since six years or more, are uneasy with what they are doing.
And this raise a question: Why starts doing something when, deep inside, you have a so low esteem for it ?
Let's this be an advice for any wanabe adult game creators. If you believe that porn is wrong and/or, if you think that you absolutely need to keep this a secret, don't even care to starts. One can't make an adult game if he isn't perfectly at ease with it.
It doesn't mean that you have to share this information with everyone, but there will come a time where your family and friends will ask you why you have so few time for them, and you'll have answer this question. Of course, you can lie, tell that works is tiring, or whatever excuse you come with. But if you feel guilty because you believe that what you do is shameful, who will buy this lie ? No one...
If you aren't sure that you can come clear with what you do, if the occasion rise, then don't even starts doing it, period.
Hmm, welcome in the self proclaimed lands of freedom ?
Come live in France, it's been 38 years that one of the main TV channel broadcast a porn movie once each month. It even had (still have ?) a magazine dedicated to porn news right before it. And some of the TV channels dedicated to movies have an erotic or porn movie at least once in a week. All this after midnight of course, but not because it's unacceptable, just because it's illegal to expose minor to pornography.
Yeah, I said it, the perspective bias is strong...
It can seem unrelated, but it isn't the case. Your whole explanation regarding why devs quits turn around money and the fact that pornography is something evil. And you apply this reasoning to all devs, including those who live in a country where $100/month is above the average salary, and those who live in a country where pornography is globally tolerated. It's obvious that for the first ones money isn't the reason, like shame isn't the reason for the second ones.
This being said, to my knowledge there isn't a country that cross the two. Either you can live with few, or people don't care about you doing porn.
Thanks captain obvious.
Take a look at all the meta threads regarding game creation, and all the "I want to make a game" threads. Globally speaking the consumers we are, those idiots that accordingly to you don't know better than "devs are taking money, abandoning projects, false commitments etc.", know and understand the difference.
You just interchanged desire, create for envy, share. It is the same thing. It is synonymous. I can see English is not your first language, which is why it may seem confusing. I cannot see how envy to share is different from desire to create. Desire is very broad, and creation is broad. Envy and sharing, would just be sub-categories of the what I said if anything.with the community.
There's a bit of passion in this of course, but absolutely not in the way you described it. It's not a desire to create, but an envy to share what's in their mind, and potentially also to give something back to the community.
This is a fair point and I agree. I cannot represent creators. However, I never claimed to represent them, I indicated that this is an opinionated piece. Everything in it is subjective, and my own opinion.It's the issue I have with your thoughts. You clearly believe that, since it's an adult game, all is necessarily about porn and money. But I'm pretty sure that you are wrong. It was clearly the case for you, but you are far to represent all the creators ; I'm not even sure that you can claim to represent a quarter of them.
Are you saying Story is primary and Porn is secondary in games? Well, this could be true, but that is not the point. Most games are being made to have porn included in them, whether it is a primary or secondary factor is irrelevant.Take a game like Dreams of Desire by example. The further you go in the story, the more the story take over the lewd content. It's far to be the only game like this, around half of them have this switch after some times, and they don't loose fans or support when it happen ;
All the examples of burnout/passion you include I already mentioned when I said quitting due to motivation. The other examples you provide are extremely valid, however I didn't think it was necessary to include niche examples, because I wanted to generalize for the majority of the devs/creators reasonings.I can have missed one or two, but globally those are the reasons.
- They spend more than they earn and can afford to loose ;
- They had a change in life (found a girlfriend, married, had a child, found a job, had a promotion, etc.) and don't anymore have enough free time ;
- They had a hard time in life (long time illness, loose of someone important for them, divorce, etc.) and lost all interest for what now looks like futility or, for the illness, don't have the strength to continue ;
- They started on a whim, with nothing more than an idea, and don't have the starts of a fucking clue about how to continue their story/game ;
- They burned all their passion, and it now bore them ;
- They hadn't a fucking clue about how fuckingly hard and time consuming it is, and can't take it anymore, or burned themselves out ;
- They died... because yes, alas, it happen for real.
For the first paragraph I would like to say:But I do believe that, when they have to face this nice and good guy, that they know for years, and therefore when they have to think about it, to question their thoughts, it's different ; "he is a nice guy, he have always been polite, funny and helpful, and now I learn that he'd been doing porn all this time... Does this mean that porn isn't as bad as it looks at first ?"
What would mean that in fact all this pressure don't come from the society, but from yourself. You (plural form) are feeling dirty not because you are doing something unacceptable, but because you are convinced that it's how you have to feel about yourself. You (still plural) believe that people will judge you if they knew, because yourself are judging you.
No, I mention motivation, money, and social stigma. I think many people are getting the wrong idea of what I wrote, which means I have written poorly. A dev does not need all these options to quit, just of these reasons or more. I'm sorry for my poor writing.It can seem unrelated, but it isn't the case. Your whole explanation regarding why devs quits turn around money and the fact that pornography is something evil. And you apply this reasoning to all devs, including those who live in a country where $100/month is above the average salary, and those who live in a country where pornography is globally tolerated. It's obvious that for the first ones money isn't the reason, like shame isn't the reason for the second ones.
This being said, to my knowledge there isn't a country that cross the two. Either you can live with few, or people don't care about you doing porn.
There is no reason to be demeaning. If I was another person, it is highly possible that on my first read of this, I would have become provoked off this one derogatory remark, and then respond with anger. I think it's best for discussion purposes for both sides to be without demeaning comments. That way, both sides can respond with a calm mind, and not reply with emotion, leading to an optimal discussion of a topic.Thanks captain obvious.
Take a look at all the meta threads regarding game creation, and all the "I want to make a game" threads. Globally speaking the consumers we are, those idiots that accordingly to you don't know better than "devs are taking money, abandoning projects, false commitments etc.", know and understand the difference.
I don't have many friends, but the friends I do have all know that I play porn games and a bunch of other weird shit about me. To me that is kind of the point of having friends. If you have to hide who you are from your friends they're really not friends anymore at that point, more like acquaintances or colleagues. Obviously you don't go around telling every person you barely know your weirdo fetishes and which hentai game is the best to fap to. That doesn't mean you are ashamed, there are just different levels of intimacy that are appropriate for different people.I find it hard to believe personally, and I say this well knowing my bias in this following statement, that most people will not think poorly of you, when they find out you create porn. However, as I mentioned in the beginning, we all live within our own bubbles, and this is my reasoning due to my own experiences and perspectives.
I think the larger point here is that revealing specifics about what kind of adult game you are making to your immediate family is uncomfortable because it reveals more about your sexual tastes than most people are comfortable with. But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members.I would also like to add on to one of your points, that if you wouldn't tell your grandma, you are proving bad conscious. Now, one could argue they wouldn't tell their grandma for the sake of their grandma's sanity(their grandma's bad conscious), but I believe that to be unlikely. The much more common situation, in my opinion, is that the individual would refrain from telling their grandmother, in order to avoid the guilt of what they believe would become of their grandma's opinion of them.
Whatever happened to that guy anyway? Did someone play him the world's smallest violin?
Amen on this.I don't have many friends, but the friends I do have all know that I play porn games and a bunch of other weird shit about me. To me that is kind of the point of having friends. If you have to hide who you are from your friends they're really not friends anymore at that point, more like acquaintances or colleagues. Obviously you don't go around telling every person you barely know your weirdo fetishes and which hentai game is the best to fap to. That doesn't mean you are ashamed, there are just different levels of intimacy that are appropriate for different people.
I think the larger point here is that revealing specifics about what kind of adult game you are making to your immediate family is uncomfortable because it reveals more about your sexual tastes than most people are comfortable with. But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members.
Now you kind of have a point where that can lead to lying to people about what you do and feeling bad about that I guess, but that depends on your personal morality when it comes to lies. My parents have no idea what I do for a living because they can barely operate a PC and just know that I "do stuff on the internet" to begin with, so if I ever got into making a game I wouldn't really see the need to update their beliefs. Is that a shameful lie because I would be ashamed of my disgusting career in pornography? Meh. I just don't feel like my parents need to know what I jerk off to.
I don't have many friends, but the friends I do have all know that I play porn games and a bunch of other weird shit about me. To me that is kind of the point of having friends. If you have to hide who you are from your friends they're really not friends anymore at that point, more like acquaintances or colleagues. Obviously you don't go around telling every person you barely know your weirdo fetishes and which hentai game is the best to fap to. That doesn't mean you are ashamed, there are just different levels of intimacy that are appropriate for different people.
I think the larger point here is that revealing specifics about what kind of adult game you are making to your immediate family is uncomfortable because it reveals more about your sexual tastes than most people are comfortable with. But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members.
Now you kind of have a point where that can lead to lying to people about what you do and feeling bad about that I guess, but that depends on your personal morality when it comes to lies.My parents have no idea what I do for a living because they can barely operate a PC and just know that I "do stuff on the internet" to begin with, so if I ever got into making a game I wouldn't really see the need to update their beliefs. Is that a shameful lie because I would be ashamed of my disgusting career in pornography? Meh. I just don't feel like my parents need to know what I jerk off to.
Ask yourself why you wouldn't tell your parents what you jerk off to. There is a reason behind the reason, a fundamental truth. And most likely, it is that because society has deemed it so, you would not share this info. But imagine a society you grow up in, where it is promoted to talk about this sort of thing, the opposite takes place. You would instead be arguing it is totally normal to tell your parents.But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members. My parents have no idea what I do for a living because they can barely operate a PC and just know that I "do stuff on the internet" to begin with, so if I ever got into making a game I wouldn't really see the need to update their beliefs. Is that a shameful lie because I would be ashamed of my disgusting career in pornography? Meh. I just don't feel like my parents need to know what I jerk off to
He got the yeet...Whatever happened to that guy anyway? Did someone play him the world's smallest violin?
Because when you meet a girl you don't greet her by sticking your dick in her ear. Maybe you have some small talk first.Why would it be okay to tell strangers, what sports you play, what alcoholic beverages you prefer, what foods you like... but not what porn you like?
Okay? I don't get what your point is. Yes, society would be different if society was different. Most of your points seem to conflate the general concept of the "nudity = shame" response to "therefore watching porn is shameful." Yeah, if we all grew up as nudists we wouldn't be ashamed of being nude.Ask yourself why you wouldn't tell your parents what you jerk off to. There is a reason behind the reason, a fundamental truth. And most likely, it is that because society has deemed it so, you would not share this info. But imagine a society you grow up in, where it is promoted to talk about this sort of thing, the opposite takes place. You would instead be arguing it is totally normal to tell your parents.
I completely disagree with this take. Sex talk with family members is never "acceptable" to me. I really don't get how "I fucked my wife in the ass last night" is somehow more okay to you than talking about watching porn. I don't know how you ever managed to produce a porn game when you literally seem to believe it's the most shameful thing one can ever engage in.Let's compare to something a little similar, but is instead a situation of awkwardness and a bit more acceptable. If you were to talk about your sex life with your wife to your parents, that would be awkward, but still more acceptable. Still a bit weird. But it's more acceptable versus sharing jerking off/pornographic material because of society.
Do you honestly not understand why people treat their friends different from their parents or are you still arguing that people shouldn't? Usually your parents are a generation or two older than your friends, which means, on average, they are more conservative and less accepting of "alternative lifestyles."And to further elaborate, if you say you can share with your friends, but see no need to your parents. I just repeat again. Ask why. What is the fundamental reason. Broken down to the lowest level, the reason why you don't. There must be a reason, because if there wasn't, they would've been told.
If somebody is in their own head I would argue it's you. Who are "normal ass people"? Why do you feel a pathological need to communicate your porn preferences to everybody you meet to be happy? Like, I get it, you got embarrassed by your porn hobby and/or keeping it a secret from somebody made you feel bad, that doesn't mean that's the only way to be and everybody else is delusional and denying reality.You can maybe even argue, people who don't consider the above points, are so much so within not just their bubble, intheir own head, that they don't realize the truth. Ignorance of reality. That reality, does in fact, not accept this lifestyle. I truly ask, do you really think that normal ass people will accept this? But if you argue, I don't need those type of people in my life, you are further proving that you are rejecting reality and delving deeper into the life of pornography.
"And nothing of value was lost" - Jay ShermanHe got the yeet...![]()
Bro, do you even want to know what your parents are jerking off to? That sounds insane.Ask yourself why you wouldn't tell your parents what you jerk off to. There is a reason behind the reason, a fundamental truth. And most likely, it is that because society has deemed it so, you would not share this info.
Because when you meet a girl you don't greet her by sticking your dick in her ear. Maybe you have some small talk first.
Okay? I don't get what your point is. Yes, society would be different if society was different. Most of your points seem to conflate the general concept of the "nudity = shame" response to "therefore watching porn is shameful." Yeah, if we all grew up as nudists we wouldn't be ashamed of being nude.
I completely disagree with this take. Sex talk with family members is never "acceptable" to me. I really don't get how "I fucked my wife in the ass last night" is somehow more okay to you than talking about watching porn. I don't know how you ever managed to produce a porn game when you literally seem to believe it's the most shameful thing one can ever engage in.
Do you honestly not understand why people treat their friends different from their parents or are you still arguing that people shouldn't? Usually your parents are a generation or two older than your friends, which means, on average, they are more conservative and less accepting of "alternative lifestyles."
If somebody is in their own head I would argue it's you. Who are "normal ass people"? Why do you feel a pathological need to communicate your porn preferences to everybody you meet to be happy? Like, I get it, you got embarrassed by your porn hobby and/or keeping it a secret from somebody made you feel bad, that doesn't mean that's the only way to be and everybody else is delusional and denying reality.
I'm sorry, but you are exaggerating my comparison to the max, when the single sentence after I said this is a broad comparison. I also feel like you are not trying to understand what I am trying to convey, which is just that the reason we are allowed or unallowed to do things, are very little from biological or evolutionary reasons, but rather because we as a society have just come to conclusions of what is right and wrong, or rather what is more right and what is more wrong. Is that not fair to say? Yes we don't live in another world, we live in this one, with the rules we currently have. That is not the point. The point is that there are rules and they exist because of society. It seems like to you, that I'm saying everyone has an awful conscious when they make porn games or whatever, or that they are shamed. No. Some people feel that way. Some people don't feel that way because they don't even realize it's an issue (ignorance). And some people know it's an issue and don't care at all (free conscious). This is purely about the dev/artist who quits. I see no need to expand on free conscious, when those are the most unlikely to quit being a dev/creator. This we can agree on at least? That is why I'm expanding so much on the other 2 scenarios, and also this is why it might seem like I'm being pathological, when in fact I'm ignoring one case that is not relevant to my point, and revealing the other 2 which are relevant. I don't mean to be pathological, I only wish to subjectively analyze why devs/creators quit.Because when you meet a girl you don't greet her by sticking your dick in her ear. Maybe you have some small talk first.
Break what you said yourself down to a fundamental level. If your parents have difficulty understanding due to a generational difference, that generational difference is due to a difference in societal beliefs. One which is of a past time, and one of which is current. Both still bound by societal rules. You just providing with such a simple yet brilliant example of what I was talking about, and I could not have realized this example myself.Do you honestly not understand why people treat their friends different from their parents or are you still arguing that people shouldn't? Usually your parents are a generation or two older than your friends, which means, on average, they are more conservative and less accepting of "alternative lifestyles."
I'm awful at writing and discussing so I hope you can forgive any misled intentions I have construed. I didn't intend for any malice or hate towards a specific lifestyle, or a favoring of another. Everything I have wrote, is with the pure intention of a subjective analysis of why artists/devs quit. I do this by breaking down to the fundamental level.If somebody is in their own head I would argue it's you. Who are "normal ass people"? Why do you feel a pathological need to communicate your porn preferences to everybody you meet to be happy? Like, I get it, you got embarrassed by your porn hobby and/or keeping it a secret from somebody made you feel bad, that doesn't mean that's the only way to be and everybody else is delusional and denying reality.
Everything flows from biological or evolutionary reasons, especially if you don't believe in free will, but this discussion is already autistic enough so maybe we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole.the reason we are allowed or unallowed to do things, are very little from biological or evolutionary reasons, but rather because we as a society have just come to conclusions of what is right and wrong, or rather what is more right and what is more wrong. Is that not fair to say?
Sure, societal beliefs change. I still don't think that's fundamentally going to change the parent/child dynamic when it comes to discussing sex. Maybe it will at some point, but I have my doubts. Obviously there are always exceptions.Break what you said yourself down to a fundamental level. If your parents have difficulty understanding due to a generational difference, that generational difference is due to a difference in societal beliefs. One which is of a past time, and one of which is current. Both still bound by societal rules. You just providing with such a simple yet brilliant example of what I was talking about, and I could not have realized this example myself.
Also, I want to repeat that I don't care if someone jerks off or not, or makes porn. This was stated in the first essay. This is just an analysis, nothing more. I'm not telling anyone how to do anything. We are just having a discussion, and I'm trying to come to a better conclusion by discussing with people. It may seem like to you that I'm trying to spread a message or the love of christ or something, I'm not. But again, challenge what I'm saying with a fundamental reasoning, I am looking forward to it.
I just chose to react to the most peculiar bit of your OP that seemed to indicate some personal experience. Most of your argument consisted of fairly standard points like not enough money, motivation issues, etc, the social stigma stuff seemed more interesting to discuss, especially since you kept using super value-laden terms like shameful and disgusting. If social stigma wasn't a major reason for you discontinuing your game, your post definitely made it seem like that to me.Lastly, to your point that 'I don't see how you could've made a porn game in the first place with how much you shame porn", I never indicated my reason for quitting or making games. Again, this is a purely subjective analysis on devs/creators quitting. You make assumptions because I was a dev/artist, but that doesn't mean it's true. I'm sorry for writing in a way that is misleading.
Social stigma was just the most difficult to explain in my opinion, which is why it was the longest. The way I view it, it's more difficult to understand which is why I had to go to such lengths to consider many factors and break it down. Money and motivation seemed like very easily understood.Everything flows from biological or evolutionary reasons, especially if you don't believe in free will, but this discussion is already autistic enough so maybe we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole.
Sure, societal beliefs change. I still don't think that's fundamentally going to change the parent/child dynamic when it comes to discussing sex. Maybe it will at some point, but I have my doubts. Obviously there are always exceptions.
I just chose to react to the most peculiar bit of your OP that seemed to indicate some personal experience. Most of your argument consisted of fairly standard points like not enough money, motivation issues, etc, the social stigma stuff seemed more interesting to discuss, especially since you kept using super value-laden terms like shameful and disgusting. If social stigma wasn't a major reason for you discontinuing your game, your post definitely made it seem like that to me.
When you say human thing, I want to break this down. You are saying it is a biological trait we have evolved, to be uncomfortable about talking about sex to another human.Bro, do you even want to know what your parents are jerking off to? That sounds insane.
This isn't a "society" thing, this is a "human" thing, people get uncomfortable if you suddenly start talking about sex...
Not really, in fact shame and guilt are natural and biological traits relating to human intelligence. If you feel no shame at all you are most likely unaware of your surroundings or not smart enough to notice how your actions can impact others around you, making them uncomfortable for no reason.The uncomfortableness or anxiety or fear that envelopes someone when they talk to another person about sex, is just because it is against society's norm.
Among other things. I'm also saying that gameplay is primary and everything else secondary, and that entertainment is primary, and everything else secondary. All depend of the player, and you find them all among the more than 5 Millions members here.Are you saying Story is primary and Porn is secondary in games? Well, this could be true, but that is not the point.
Yes, it's totally untrue.Is it just not true that both devs and creators are making porn content for easier exposure, thus greater money?
It's probably because you fail to understand that for the vast majority of them, it's not a career but a hobby. They are doing it because, well, why not doing it ?I can't comprehend why a creator/dev would opt to choose a career in the pornographic world vs the real world.
No, the truth is that their isn't such thing as "real world"/"virtual world", at least not in that way and for this topic.The truth is, their is much, much greater competition in the real world for artists and developers.
You really don't have the start of a clue regarding the subject, right ?It is much easier to survive in the porn industry. This is an absolute fact. Consumers with sexual desire is much different than targeting consumers without. Both devs and creators are clearly making porn related content, because it's easier being successful than non-porn endeavors. I'd like to see someone argue against this, as I like to keep an open mind and may be incorrect. But, for now this is my general opinion.
A burnout, that is a medical condition, is the strict opposite of your "motivation" reason. You quit because you are so motivated that you burned your life while doing it...All the examples of burnout/passion you include I already mentioned when I said quitting due to motivation.
Sorry but, starting the moment when you limited the reasons to starts creating an adult game to the smallest group, it's the the reasons to quit you listed are the niche example.The other examples you provide are extremely valid, however I didn't think it was necessary to include niche examples, because I wanted to generalize for the majority of the devs/creators reasonings.
If they value you poorly, why are you still talking to them ?Two things will happen. This depends on how much the other person likes you. If they value you, their opinion of pornography will adjust because they don't want to dislike you. If they value you poorly, they will value you even worse.
*sigh* I'll pass on your really poor definition of what a cognitive dissonance is, and address the more interesting point....The term for this in social psychology is cognitive dissonance - in which people adjust their behaviors or attitudes because a certain situation isn't lining up to their behavior/attitudes. The person may dislike pornography, but think you are a good friend. When they find out you are involved in pornography, there is a disconnect, a dissonance, or a disagreement in the mind about the current situation. Therefore, one thing must adjust, either their opinion of you, or their opinion on pornography. Hope that makes sense.
*sigh* Everyone hate porn here, yeah. It's why they publish Sade and sell it in library, why there's porn on one of the main TV channel and on none purely dedicated TV channels, and so many other things porn related.The 2nd thing is that in relation to above, is something you already wonderfully said: Your own perspective is biased. You are within your own bubble, where friends/family accept you. Outside of your bubble, majority of people in my opinion will not view your occupation in pornography kindly.
And now you are insulting both my intelligence, my friends, coworkers and family... This just because you are totally unable to imagine that there's people out there that don't despite porn as much as you do it deep inside you.And truth is, while I'm sure your friends are still your friends, and your family still loves you, this does not mean they are truthful.
Seriously ? For you the easiest way to know if someone is truthful is to imagine how he would be if he was truthful ?People will often hide their true attitudes in order to maintain relationships, or to be kind. The easiest way to realize this, is compare how you think a friend or family member would think of you if your job was someone who modded for games, vs someone who modded for porn games.
I already answered something like this, on this forum. It was years ago (2018 I think), but I guess that if someone want to dig he would find it. It's simple, I would support her in the exact same way, whatever if she want to be a dancer or if she want to be a stripper.How about if your daughter was a dancer vs a stripper?
As long as he like what he is doing, and don't pass in front of the camera in case it's porn (or at least give me the name of the movie, that I avoid it), why should I care ? Why should I judge him ?How about if your father works as a camera man for porn vs just being a camera man for a TV?
Well, I guess that it's your case, but please stop projecting yourself on the rest of the world.For some reason, when it's about us, we discount the situation and say nobody thinks poorly of me, or that we aren't judged, or it's not a bad thing (in the view of society). But when I turn it around to what if's about other people, you can see how you may prefer them to be doing the more socially acceptable job.
It's not a question of writing, it's a question of projection.No, I mention motivation, money, and social stigma. I think many people are getting the wrong idea of what I wrote, which means I have written poorly. A dev does not need all these options to quit, just of these reasons or more. I'm sorry for my poor writing.
Say the guy who explicitly claimed that players are totally unaware regarding what it mean to be creator, and only see them as liar who want to stole their money. The same guy who more than implicitly said that my friends and family aren't truthful in their feelings toward me, and that I'm too idiot to understand it...There is no reason to be demeaning. If I was another person, it is highly possible that on my first read of this, I would have become provoked off this one derogatory remark, and then respond with anger. I think it's best for discussion purposes for both sides to be without demeaning comments.