Why your favorite devs/content creators quit and take 'breaks'

[Lerd0]

The threads were shit but fun to read...

 

[anne O'nymous]

First, let us exclude the outliers, those devs who have made over $100k, because in these cases it is realistic to justify these devs quit because they saved enough money to pursue something else.

Is it really the reason ?

You don't make $100K/year (because month there's only one that achieve this) with your game if you don't have some passion. Not because passion is needed to make a game, but because it's what will make people want to support you.
Therefore, I'm pretty certain that at this level of success it's not a question of money, but more that they burned all the passion by overdoing it. What explain why, past some time, creators tend to produce less, they need longer break for the passion to grow again and, with it, for the desire to works on the game to come back. And it happen that for some, despite the long pauses they take, the passion just don't come back. What was a pleasure become now a constraint, and the more they have to force themselves working on the next update, the stronger their disgust for this occupation become.

So what is the dev/creators perspective when they decide to make something? There are few but common reasons why they even make these games or projects or content in general to begin with.
A general passion, pursuit of income, and/or escape from reality.

There's a reason missing, one that is present in many of those who started as players. A reason that is probably the most shared one among creators who immediately put their game here: The desire to tell and share a story.

They have this idea that slowly grown in their mind while playing games after games. Those "what if it was this that happened instead", and others "wouldn't have been better if", that cross our mind while playing and that, at some point, become a whole story. And they just want to share it with the community.
There's a bit of passion in this of course, but absolutely not in the way you described it. It's not a desire to create, but an envy to share what's in their mind, and potentially also to give something back to the community. It's only with time, when they'll discover that they like doing this, that it will effectively turn into a passion. But not all will continue. Many will just stop after one game because, despite the pleasure they had while sharing their story, they just have no other story to share.

I would just like to remind you I am not someone who thinks I have some unforeseen wisdom to share about pornography. Please. This is not the purpose of this post, I'm not going to try to convince anyone to stop jerking their cock or whatever, I still do it lol.

It's the issue I have with your thoughts. You clearly believe that, since it's an adult game, all is necessarily about porn and money. But I'm pretty sure that you are wrong. It was clearly the case for you, but you are far to represent all the creators ; I'm not even sure that you can claim to represent a quarter of them.

Take a game like Dreams of Desire by example. The further you go in the story, the more the story take over the lewd content. It's far to be the only game like this, around half of them have this switch after some times, and they don't loose fans or support when it happen ; it's generally the opposite, the game matured and now deserve some support. Plus, there's also those games that, right from the starts, put the story above the lewd, like The DeLuca Family or Heavy Five, to names only two.

I'm just a normal dude who quit being a dev and I just want to give my own insights, as what I believe are the actual reasons devs quit.

• They spend more than they earn and can afford to loose ;
• They had a change in life (found a girlfriend, married, had a child, found a job, had a promotion, etc.) and don't anymore have enough free time ;
• They had a hard time in life (long time illness, loose of someone important for them, divorce, etc.) and lost all interest for what now looks like futility or, for the illness, don't have the strength to continue ;
• They started on a whim, with nothing more than an idea, and don't have the starts of a fucking clue about how to continue their story/game ;
• They burned all their passion, and it now bore them ;
• They hadn't a fucking clue about how fuckingly hard and time consuming it is, and can't take it anymore, or burned themselves out ;
• They died... because yes, alas, it happen for real.

I can have missed one or two, but globally those are the reasons.

It should be quite clear that the field of pornography is just unaccepted in reality. The career is shameful, disgusting, unappreciated, and is considered of lower social status. To be clear, these are not my thoughts, but the general public, and most importantly, the families and friends of most people think this way.

Is it ?

I know that my own perspective can be biased, because I live in the land of Sade, the country where Lolita was published for the first time, where for the first time an erotic movie was displayed in all theaters, where almost all the major writers have also wrote some erotic poems or novels. Probably everyone at works know that I make mods for adult games, some members of my family know that for some times I wrote erotic novels, while my children and some of my friends know both, and none ever changed its attitude because of this.

So, yeah, my point of view is obviously different and it can partly be due to where I live. But I'm pretty sure that there's a big difference between what the society as a whole make you believe, and what individuals effectively think when they have to face the question. This especially since "the view of the society" is nothing more than, hmm... "the thoughts at first intent" of the majority, therefore what you think when you don't have to think about it.
As long as they don't have to effectively think about it, yeah, you're perhaps right, in the mind of people pornography is unacceptable. But I do believe that, when they have to face this nice and good guy, that they know for years, and therefore when they have to think about it, to question their thoughts, it's different ; "he is a nice guy, he have always been polite, funny and helpful, and now I learn that he'd been doing porn all this time... Does this mean that porn isn't as bad as it looks at first ?"

What would mean that in fact all this pressure don't come from the society, but from yourself. You (plural form) are feeling dirty not because you are doing something unacceptable, but because you are convinced that it's how you have to feel about yourself. You (still plural) believe that people will judge you if they knew, because yourself are judging you.

The deeper the dev goes into the escape of pornography, the more his conscious becomes at unease.

I'm not really sure that peoples like DarkCookie, Adeptus Steve, Oni (who's among the eldest), Mr.Dots, and so many more who are doing this since six years or more, are uneasy with what they are doing.

And this raise a question: Why starts doing something when, deep inside, you have a so low esteem for it ?

Let's this be an advice for any wanabe adult game creators. If you believe that porn is wrong and/or, if you think that you absolutely need to keep this a secret, don't even care to starts. One can't make an adult game if he isn't perfectly at ease with it.
It doesn't mean that you have to share this information with everyone, but there will come a time where your family and friends will ask you why you have so few time for them, and you'll have answer this question. Of course, you can lie, tell that works is tiring, or whatever excuse you come with. But if you feel guilty because you believe that what you do is shameful, who will buy this lie ? No one...

If you aren't sure that you can come clear with what you do, if the occasion rise, then don't even starts doing it, period.

I would like to conclude the last two points by saying, the only reason creation or consumption of porn weighs heavily in a negative manner in the mind, is because we are so accustomed to society's view that porn is bad and disgusting.

Hmm, welcome in the self proclaimed lands of freedom ?
Come live in France, it's been 38 years that one of the main TV channel broadcast a porn movie once each month. It even had (still have ?) a magazine dedicated to porn news right before it. And some of the TV channels dedicated to movies have an erotic or porn movie at least once in a week. All this after midnight of course, but not because it's unacceptable, just because it's illegal to expose minor to pornography.
Yeah, I said it, the perspective bias is strong...

It can seem unrelated, but it isn't the case. Your whole explanation regarding why devs quits turn around money and the fact that pornography is something evil. And you apply this reasoning to all devs, including those who live in a country where $100/month is above the average salary, and those who live in a country where pornography is globally tolerated. It's obvious that for the first ones money isn't the reason, like shame isn't the reason for the second ones.
This being said, to my knowledge there isn't a country that cross the two. Either you can live with few, or people don't care about you doing porn.

FINAL THOUGHT: It is important for the consumer to understand the difference between them and the developer/creator.

Thanks captain obvious.
Take a look at all the meta threads regarding game creation, and all the "I want to make a game" threads. Globally speaking the consumers we are, those idiots that accordingly to you don't know better than "devs are taking money, abandoning projects, false commitments etc.", know and understand the difference.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I find it hard to believe personally, and I say this well knowing my bias in this following statement, that most people will not think poorly of you, when they find out you create porn. However, as I mentioned in the beginning, we all live within our own bubbles, and this is my reasoning due to my own experiences and perspectives.

I don't have many friends, but the friends I do have all know that I play porn games and a bunch of other weird shit about me. To me that is kind of the point of having friends. If you have to hide who you are from your friends they're really not friends anymore at that point, more like acquaintances or colleagues. Obviously you don't go around telling every person you barely know your weirdo fetishes and which hentai game is the best to fap to. That doesn't mean you are ashamed, there are just different levels of intimacy that are appropriate for different people.

I would also like to add on to one of your points, that if you wouldn't tell your grandma, you are proving bad conscious. Now, one could argue they wouldn't tell their grandma for the sake of their grandma's sanity(their grandma's bad conscious), but I believe that to be unlikely. The much more common situation, in my opinion, is that the individual would refrain from telling their grandmother, in order to avoid the guilt of what they believe would become of their grandma's opinion of them.

I think the larger point here is that revealing specifics about what kind of adult game you are making to your immediate family is uncomfortable because it reveals more about your sexual tastes than most people are comfortable with. But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members.

Now you kind of have a point where that can lead to lying to people about what you do and feeling bad about that I guess, but that depends on your personal morality when it comes to lies. My parents have no idea what I do for a living because they can barely operate a PC and just know that I "do stuff on the internet" to begin with, so if I ever got into making a game I wouldn't really see the need to update their beliefs. Is that a shameful lie because I would be ashamed of my disgusting career in pornography? Meh. I just don't feel like my parents need to know what I jerk off to.

 

[Asia Argento]

View attachment 2354439

Whatever happened to that guy anyway? Did someone play him the world's smallest violin?

I don't have many friends, but the friends I do have all know that I play porn games and a bunch of other weird shit about me. To me that is kind of the point of having friends. If you have to hide who you are from your friends they're really not friends anymore at that point, more like acquaintances or colleagues. Obviously you don't go around telling every person you barely know your weirdo fetishes and which hentai game is the best to fap to. That doesn't mean you are ashamed, there are just different levels of intimacy that are appropriate for different people.

I think the larger point here is that revealing specifics about what kind of adult game you are making to your immediate family is uncomfortable because it reveals more about your sexual tastes than most people are comfortable with. But that is not necessarily because you are deeply ashamed, it's just generally a topic you don't want to discuss with family members.

Now you kind of have a point where that can lead to lying to people about what you do and feeling bad about that I guess, but that depends on your personal morality when it comes to lies. My parents have no idea what I do for a living because they can barely operate a PC and just know that I "do stuff on the internet" to begin with, so if I ever got into making a game I wouldn't really see the need to update their beliefs. Is that a shameful lie because I would be ashamed of my disgusting career in pornography? Meh. I just don't feel like my parents need to know what I jerk off to.

Amen on this.

I stick to the Japanese style of things with my "interests". Speak when Im asked, but mostly I dont say shit. It's no one's bees wax unless I am asked and that NEVER happens.

 

[Uthuriel]

Whatever happened to that guy anyway? Did someone play him the world's smallest violin?

He got the yeet...

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Why would it be okay to tell strangers, what sports you play, what alcoholic beverages you prefer, what foods you like... but not what porn you like?

Because when you meet a girl you don't greet her by sticking your dick in her ear. Maybe you have some small talk first.

Ask yourself why you wouldn't tell your parents what you jerk off to. There is a reason behind the reason, a fundamental truth. And most likely, it is that because society has deemed it so, you would not share this info. But imagine a society you grow up in, where it is promoted to talk about this sort of thing, the opposite takes place. You would instead be arguing it is totally normal to tell your parents.

Okay? I don't get what your point is. Yes, society would be different if society was different. Most of your points seem to conflate the general concept of the "nudity = shame" response to "therefore watching porn is shameful." Yeah, if we all grew up as nudists we wouldn't be ashamed of being nude.

Let's compare to something a little similar, but is instead a situation of awkwardness and a bit more acceptable. If you were to talk about your sex life with your wife to your parents, that would be awkward, but still more acceptable. Still a bit weird. But it's more acceptable versus sharing jerking off/pornographic material because of society.

I completely disagree with this take. Sex talk with family members is never "acceptable" to me. I really don't get how "I fucked my wife in the ass last night" is somehow more okay to you than talking about watching porn. I don't know how you ever managed to produce a porn game when you literally seem to believe it's the most shameful thing one can ever engage in.

And to further elaborate, if you say you can share with your friends, but see no need to your parents. I just repeat again. Ask why. What is the fundamental reason. Broken down to the lowest level, the reason why you don't. There must be a reason, because if there wasn't, they would've been told.

Do you honestly not understand why people treat their friends different from their parents or are you still arguing that people shouldn't? Usually your parents are a generation or two older than your friends, which means, on average, they are more conservative and less accepting of "alternative lifestyles."

You can maybe even argue, people who don't consider the above points, are so much so within not just their bubble, intheir own head, that they don't realize the truth. Ignorance of reality. That reality, does in fact, not accept this lifestyle. I truly ask, do you really think that normal ass people will accept this? But if you argue, I don't need those type of people in my life, you are further proving that you are rejecting reality and delving deeper into the life of pornography.

If somebody is in their own head I would argue it's you. Who are "normal ass people"? Why do you feel a pathological need to communicate your porn preferences to everybody you meet to be happy? Like, I get it, you got embarrassed by your porn hobby and/or keeping it a secret from somebody made you feel bad, that doesn't mean that's the only way to be and everybody else is delusional and denying reality.

 

[Asia Argento]

He got the yeet...

"And nothing of value was lost" - Jay Sherman

 

[Meaning Less]

Ask yourself why you wouldn't tell your parents what you jerk off to. There is a reason behind the reason, a fundamental truth. And most likely, it is that because society has deemed it so, you would not share this info.

Bro, do you even want to know what your parents are jerking off to? That sounds insane.

This isn't a "society" thing, this is a "human" thing. Most people don't even want to know what their close friends or family are fapping to...

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

the reason we are allowed or unallowed to do things, are very little from biological or evolutionary reasons, but rather because we as a society have just come to conclusions of what is right and wrong, or rather what is more right and what is more wrong. Is that not fair to say?

Everything flows from biological or evolutionary reasons, especially if you don't believe in free will, but this discussion is already autistic enough so maybe we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole.

Break what you said yourself down to a fundamental level. If your parents have difficulty understanding due to a generational difference, that generational difference is due to a difference in societal beliefs. One which is of a past time, and one of which is current. Both still bound by societal rules. You just providing with such a simple yet brilliant example of what I was talking about, and I could not have realized this example myself.

Sure, societal beliefs change. I still don't think that's fundamentally going to change the parent/child dynamic when it comes to discussing sex. Maybe it will at some point, but I have my doubts. Obviously there are always exceptions.

Also, I want to repeat that I don't care if someone jerks off or not, or makes porn. This was stated in the first essay. This is just an analysis, nothing more. I'm not telling anyone how to do anything. We are just having a discussion, and I'm trying to come to a better conclusion by discussing with people. It may seem like to you that I'm trying to spread a message or the love of christ or something, I'm not. But again, challenge what I'm saying with a fundamental reasoning, I am looking forward to it.

Lastly, to your point that 'I don't see how you could've made a porn game in the first place with how much you shame porn", I never indicated my reason for quitting or making games. Again, this is a purely subjective analysis on devs/creators quitting. You make assumptions because I was a dev/artist, but that doesn't mean it's true. I'm sorry for writing in a way that is misleading.

I just chose to react to the most peculiar bit of your OP that seemed to indicate some personal experience. Most of your argument consisted of fairly standard points like not enough money, motivation issues, etc, the social stigma stuff seemed more interesting to discuss, especially since you kept using super value-laden terms like shameful and disgusting. If social stigma wasn't a major reason for you discontinuing your game, your post definitely made it seem like that to me.

 

[DrHizz]

I think you forgot about medical issues and the "take the money and run" folks, but that's small potatoes.

Your social stigma section feels....I dunno, a little bit confessional. Like that what your saying is how YOU feel about your own work and you're conflicted. And some of what you say can ring true. If you live in bumblefuck Mississippi, people finding out your a Dev is isn't gonna be good, but even there some folks ain't gonna care. Hell, move to say, Jackson or Biloxi and you'll probably find a scene for this. I think it's a bit more situational then you're making it out to be.

I'm really interested in what prompted all this.

 

[Meaning Less]

The uncomfortableness or anxiety or fear that envelopes someone when they talk to another person about sex, is just because it is against society's norm.

Not really, in fact shame and guilt are natural and biological traits relating to human intelligence. If you feel no shame at all you are most likely unaware of your surroundings or not smart enough to notice how your actions can impact others around you, making them uncomfortable for no reason.

Also just stop to think for a second, are you really interested in knowing what family/colleagues are consuming for porn? What are you going to do with that information in the first place? What if you learn things you didn't want to know?

It is a dumb premise in the first place, it isn't stigma that stops people from talking about porn, the reason most people don't share this stuff is simply because there is rarely someone interested in this information.

If anything you are the one that somehow views it as something worse than it actually is, probably result of repressed education or something similar.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Are you saying Story is primary and Porn is secondary in games? Well, this could be true, but that is not the point.

Among other things. I'm also saying that gameplay is primary and everything else secondary, and that entertainment is primary, and everything else secondary. All depend of the player, and you find them all among the more than 5 Millions members here.
And of course it's part of the point. There's some creators who've quit because they promised a gameplay that they can't achieve to code correctly (I forgot this reason in my previous reply). This while, as I said, there's some who quit because they don't know how to continue their story. How reasons to quit can not be part of the point in a thread explaining why creators quit ?

Is it just not true that both devs and creators are making porn content for easier exposure, thus greater money?

Yes, it's totally untrue.

Do you really think that someone like Oni, who make arts since more than a decade, and is on Patreon since near to nine years now, do Rogue Like for the money or the exposure ? He don't need his game, released every now and then, to have both.
And what about all those creators, around half of them, who earn less than $200/month ? They don't have the money, nor really the exposure, and yet they continue working on their game without quitting... It's not like all live in a country where life cost, and/or rate change, favor them, or have a well payed job.

Plus, must be said, it totally contradict what yourself said. How can one expect to earn money, and get more exposure, by doing something that you present as so demonized by the society ? Take one second to think about it.
"Since everyone hate porn and believe that is the most shameful things that exist, isn't it the best way to be known and swim in money ?" Who would think that exactly ? Well, except a psychopath of course.

I can't comprehend why a creator/dev would opt to choose a career in the pornographic world vs the real world.

It's probably because you fail to understand that for the vast majority of them, it's not a career but a hobby. They are doing it because, well, why not doing it ?
If it pay in money, well it's good and they'll not complain, but it's not the reason why they decided to do it. Seeing people liking what you did is already a good feeling, and for many it's also a way to be payed back for their efforts.

The truth is, their is much, much greater competition in the real world for artists and developers.

No, the truth is that their isn't such thing as "real world"/"virtual world", at least not in that way and for this topic.

An artist isn't not an artist in the "real world" because he only do numeric art. A coder isn't not a coder in the "real world" because he only share his software/games on internet. And it's not because we don't know their real name, that it's not the "real world". Many actors, singers, and other, don't use their real name. Is Nicolas Cage, by example, not an actor (yeah, well... imagine) in the "real world" just because his real family name is Coppola ?

It is much easier to survive in the porn industry. This is an absolute fact. Consumers with sexual desire is much different than targeting consumers without. Both devs and creators are clearly making porn related content, because it's easier being successful than non-porn endeavors. I'd like to see someone argue against this, as I like to keep an open mind and may be incorrect. But, for now this is my general opinion.

You really don't have the start of a clue regarding the subject, right ?

The porn industry is one of the most competitive sector. For each person you know from this industry, whatever if it's an actor/actress, an OnlyFan model, an artist, a game creator or whatever, there's a thousand that are pure nobody. And among this thousand, you'll never see, nor hear about, around 90% of them.
And of course, in top of that there's the fact that it's a niche sector. Despite what I said regarding how tolerated porn can be, it's not something consumed regularly enough by enough persons. Yes it make money, but not because there's a vast public. It make money because a part of the consumers believe that it's forbidden and therefore that their privacy worth this price, while another part of the consumers are in desperate needs and would pay whatever the price. But nowadays those two aren't the core consumers, just those who permit to the industry to earn money.

The same apply to the adult gaming scene. As I said, around half the creators earn less than $200/month, it's far to be the "I swim in money" dream that you present. And I'm sure that you wouldn't even recognize 99% of them if I would give their pseudonym.
Of course, there's few that have a great life, but over the more than 5,000 creators on Patreon, less than 100 earn $10,000/month or more. And this is before taxes, while in many countries you can't earn this much without a status of freelancer (or even society, it depend on the country) what mean that there's even more cost behind. Plus, of course, most of those who earn the most are in fact a team, what mean that the earning is shared between the members.
In the end there's what ? Around 50 persons who have at least $5,000 that reach their bank account each month ? It's more than the average salary, but far to be a fortune, and even further to be the porn dream you talk about.

Do porn pay ? Yes, if you are the lucky person who win the jackpot. But only in this case, and really few win the jackpot.

All the examples of burnout/passion you include I already mentioned when I said quitting due to motivation.

A burnout, that is a medical condition, is the strict opposite of your "motivation" reason. You quit because you are so motivated that you burned your life while doing it...

The other examples you provide are extremely valid, however I didn't think it was necessary to include niche examples, because I wanted to generalize for the majority of the devs/creators reasonings.

Sorry but, starting the moment when you limited the reasons to starts creating an adult game to the smallest group, it's the the reasons to quit you listed are the niche example.
You said above that you are open minded, yet you clearly wear blinkers and can't imagine that there's other reasons than yours to starts creating a game, and therefore to stop doing it. "Do the game you want, and don't do it for the money", it's the most frequent advice that you'll see members with the green developer badge give.

Two things will happen. This depends on how much the other person likes you. If they value you, their opinion of pornography will adjust because they don't want to dislike you. If they value you poorly, they will value you even worse.

If they value you poorly, why are you still talking to them ?
My mother cut all bridges with her jerk brother, and my wife cut all bridges with her own mother, to the point that I didn't cared to tell her that her daughter is dead. If someone value you poorly, whoever it is, cut him/her off your life, period.

The term for this in social psychology is cognitive dissonance - in which people adjust their behaviors or attitudes because a certain situation isn't lining up to their behavior/attitudes. The person may dislike pornography, but think you are a good friend. When they find out you are involved in pornography, there is a disconnect, a dissonance, or a disagreement in the mind about the current situation. Therefore, one thing must adjust, either their opinion of you, or their opinion on pornography. Hope that makes sense.

*sigh* I'll pass on your really poor definition of what a cognitive dissonance is, and address the more interesting point....

You assume that there's necessarily a cognitive dissonance, what once again tell a lot about you and the way you imagine the world around you.
But the truth is that there's absolutely no cognitive dissonance in the fact that the people who know that I'm involved with porn don't changed the way they see me. It's just that they don't care at all about porn. It's something that exist, and if someone want to be involved in it, well, it's his right.
And it's what I was saying. The majority just have no thoughts, neither positive nor negative, regarding porn. By default if asked about it they'll say that it's probably bad, because it's the expected answer. But if they starts to think about it, most of them will come to the conclusion that it's just something that exist, and that there's no more reason to see it as positive or negative, than there's reason to see "walking in the wood" as positive or negative.

The 2nd thing is that in relation to above, is something you already wonderfully said: Your own perspective is biased. You are within your own bubble, where friends/family accept you. Outside of your bubble, majority of people in my opinion will not view your occupation in pornography kindly.

*sigh* Everyone hate porn here, yeah. It's why they publish Sade and sell it in library, why there's porn on one of the main TV channel and on none purely dedicated TV channels, and so many other things porn related.

Stop believing that you are open minded, it's false ; at least when it come to porn. Despite your presence on this forum and the games you tried to create, you are convinced that it's something evil, and totally unable to question this thought. To the point that, when someone present you another perspective, that apply at the scale of a whole country, you are totally unable to consider that it can be a reality outside of its person imagination.

And truth is, while I'm sure your friends are still your friends, and your family still loves you, this does not mean they are truthful.

And now you are insulting both my intelligence, my friends, coworkers and family... This just because you are totally unable to imagine that there's people out there that don't despite porn as much as you do it deep inside you.

You see, this is a cognitive dissonance, and at its best. You are on a adult/porn game forum, and you tried to create two adult/porn games but, (not so) deep inside, you are convinced that porn is one of the evilish thing that exist. And, obviously, since you are clearly unable to resolve this dissonance, you totally broke and dive deep in the rabbit hole.
It's not while working on your games that you were trying to escape reality. It's in this thread, where you try to rationalize your situation, while doing your best to picture a world where everyone is like you, that you are doing it. Since you can't live in the world as it is, being as uninhibited regarding porn than mostly everyone else on this forum, you invent the world at your image, and picture all creators as tortured artists who sold their soul for glory and money ; and for some bears or futas.

People will often hide their true attitudes in order to maintain relationships, or to be kind. The easiest way to realize this, is compare how you think a friend or family member would think of you if your job was someone who modded for games, vs someone who modded for porn games.

Seriously ? For you the easiest way to know if someone is truthful is to imagine how he would be if he was truthful ?
God, you are way more damaged than I thought...

This said, well, I can answer this, because I also modded for none porn games. And it happen that those who know both have reacted to both news in the exact same way. But I guess that in fact they really dislike video games, so it's not a proof, they are just lying all along and I'm too idiot to see it.

How about if your daughter was a dancer vs a stripper?

I already answered something like this, on this forum. It was years ago (2018 I think), but I guess that if someone want to dig he would find it. It's simple, I would support her in the exact same way, whatever if she want to be a dancer or if she want to be a stripper.
I'll go further. I was once asked what would be my reaction if my daughter told me that she is a prostitute. And my answer was that I would buy her a small flat in a good neighborhood, taking a loan if needed, for her to works there. If she want to be a prostitute, well, as long as it's effectively what she want, what can I say ? What can I do except respect her choice ? It's her life and her decision, the least I can do is to ensure that she'll do it in acceptable condition and as much in security as it's possible.
You see, it's this "being open minded", not the "I'm sure that you would not agree" that you had in mind.

How about if your father works as a camera man for porn vs just being a camera man for a TV?

As long as he like what he is doing, and don't pass in front of the camera in case it's porn (or at least give me the name of the movie, that I avoid it), why should I care ? Why should I judge him ?

I remember that time, years ago, where my wife and I were dinning in one of my uncle's house. Him, or his wife, forgot to hide the case of the porn movie they probably watched the previous night. And well, what happened was "oops". And that's all. No, "oh my god ! My married uncle know what sex is and looked at porn at least once in his life, what horror" or anything like this, just an "oops, sorry for the mess" situation.
And, a bit more disturbing I agree, friends of my mother are libertines and sometimes have sex party at their home. And I know that my mother sometimes goes to those parties... Well, good for her I guess. I would have preferred to ignore it, but I don't care, why should I ?

We are adults, sex is part of life, and porn is just a part of sex. There's nothing but natural behavior here and really no reason to be ashamed ; "don't tell my mother that I'm policeman, she believe that I play piano in a brothel"...

For some reason, when it's about us, we discount the situation and say nobody thinks poorly of me, or that we aren't judged, or it's not a bad thing (in the view of society). But when I turn it around to what if's about other people, you can see how you may prefer them to be doing the more socially acceptable job.

Well, I guess that it's your case, but please stop projecting yourself on the rest of the world.

No, I mention motivation, money, and social stigma. I think many people are getting the wrong idea of what I wrote, which means I have written poorly. A dev does not need all these options to quit, just of these reasons or more. I'm sorry for my poor writing.

It's not a question of writing, it's a question of projection.
You are quitting because you lost all motivation when you discovered that you don't earn enough to compensate the social stigma you feel by creating a porn game. It's your reasons to quit, and it's only your reasons.

When DarthSeduction have to quit because of his health issue, there were none of those reasons involved. Same for the creator of Ethan's Legacy series, who've quit due to a burnout. And what about Veqvil, who quit for what decency make us call "strictly personal reasons" ?
How is it due to one of these reasons when (I don't remember who) had to quit because a hurricane destroyed his house and island ? Same for this one who lost everything in a computer crash. There's also that one who, few months ago, didn't quit on himself but was cancelled by his wife when she discovered that he was, again, cheating on her (in real life, not by doing a game). Or this one who had to stop because he now study oversea and would lost his scholarship if he earn money. Isn't it the strict opposite to your "money" reason ? He quit not because he don't earn enough, but because he earn something.
And if Dr Amanda and Ecchi Sensei are living dead games since years, it's explicitly because the guys behind fail (more than once for the first) to make the game mechanisms they want, nothing else.

All these cases aren't few exceptions to your rule, they are just some of the ones for which we know for sure that they absolutely don't fall in your three boxes.
Of course, there's some who quit because they lost their motivation or because they didn't earned enough. There's even one that fall more or less in your social stigma box, since he was kicked out by his girlfriend when she discovered what he was doing on her back. But your three reasons are just three among the many others. And it's not because it's your reasons to quit, that they are the most common ones.

There is no reason to be demeaning. If I was another person, it is highly possible that on my first read of this, I would have become provoked off this one derogatory remark, and then respond with anger. I think it's best for discussion purposes for both sides to be without demeaning comments.

Say the guy who explicitly claimed that players are totally unaware regarding what it mean to be creator, and only see them as liar who want to stole their money. The same guy who more than implicitly said that my friends and family aren't truthful in their feelings toward me, and that I'm too idiot to understand it...

If you don't want to risk to feel provoked, don't insult those you speak to. And if you don't want that people address you behavior, don't confuse a forum with your therapist.

 

[Reaper9988]

Burning out happens to everyone sometime for various reasons and especially if it is more of a hobby side Project.

I was just wondering about the social Stigma. I wonder if that is more of an american/other country thing.
In most of western europe porn generally has been less and less stigmatized over the years (aside from some outlying conservative groups and somewhat depending on your kink).

 

[Reaper9988]

Yeah, in the west we've definitely moved past family and friends judging just because of kinks. Outside of more conservative areas anyways; the more conservative areas are still a stones-throw.

The social stigma does apply though, it's just mostly to employers. With the amount of fresh college grads with their heads in the clouds of wanting to become a game developer and student debt up to their neck; to fulfill that dream they will basically do and take anything. So employers can afford to be picky about who they pick because they can just throw a net and catch a game developer who has had no project potentially tainting them or bad stigma attached to that person. The indie adult game devs, their portfolio if it only has a porn game can basically kiss their chances goodbye of working outside of any adult game companies, which those companies also have the option of just throwing a net out at the closest college campus and grabbing a game dev so that indie devs chance of getting hired is even smaller.

Hmm but is that because of the porn part or because Adult games are often seen as shovelware (which I think is the bigger stigma) ?
Besides the fact that working and especially getting stable work in the IT Sector has become a total shit show.

 

[Doorknob22]

To elaborate a little about the "Social Stigma" srun123 mentioned, the problem (in my case) is not the Social Stigma per-se but its derivative, that fact that I have to hide something enormous in my life from almost everyone around me. I can't talk about my doubts and failures, can't boast about my (meager) success, just carry this huge, heavy secret around. If you're an aspiring musician, or a mainstream game developer or a poet or whatever you can show your work to others but we porn creators have to hide it.

I guess I am somewhat luckier than other developers since both my wife and my best friend know what I'm doing but I'm not sure others are so lucky.

 

[Meaning Less]

To elaborate a little about the "Social Stigma" srun123 mentioned, the problem (in my case) is not the Social Stigma per-se but its derivative, that fact that I have to hide something enormous in my life from almost everyone around me. I can't talk about my doubts and failures, can't boast about my (meager) success, just carry this huge, heavy secret around. If you're an aspiring musician, or a mainstream game developer or a poet or whatever you can show your work to others but we porn creators have to hide it.

To be fair, that is not that different from developers working on big companies that have to sign NDAs, they also have to hide specfiics of what they are working on from everyone, and sometimes those projects die before completion so you also die with the secret.

And honestly this is the same to any creative endeavor, not everyone likes to share specifics of what they create even when there is no porn in it, artists don't always want to be criticized by family members or close friends, afterall stuff you create always feel intimate regardless if there is porn in it or not.

In the end, you don't really have to hide anything, you can boast to anyone that you work on visual novels on your free time without going into specifics, most people don't care about specifics in the first place.

You don't need to lie, you just have no reason to overshare, like most creators.

 

[Rafster]

I can relate to the social stigma part, but I think is more an issue of ME not wanting to talk to anyone about sex or even my sexual orientation. I only came out of the closet for my closest family (the ones living with me). The rest of my family, co-workers in my last job years ago or even the buddies I hanged out in university? I never told them about my sex life, or even if I'm gay. I don't know if it's a self-defense mechanism, or if my fucking closet is bigger than I thought but I cannot get myself to be open about sex unless I'm about to get laid with that person. But anyone else? not a word, and when I'm asked about why I don't have a girlfriend at my 40s I get pretty defensive, almost aggressive and tell them to fuck off.

And how this affect my view of being a porn game dev? it's pretty negative, it's almost like hiding a big secret on your back. To everyone else, right now, I'm an HTML/browser game dev but I never told them even the name of the game. At home no one ask anything else as long as I use everything I get from the patreon on the house's bills and expenses.

I really envy the devs who can share their work with their loved ones or be very open about this to everyone, I can't get myself to do that.

 

[Meaning Less]

I never told them about my sex life, or even if I'm gay. I don't know if it's a self-defense mechanism, or if my fucking closet is bigger than I thought but I cannot get myself to be open about sex unless I'm about to get laid with that person. But anyone else? not a word, and when I'm asked about why I don't have a girlfriend at my 40s I get pretty defensive, almost aggressive and tell them to fuck off.

Honestly this sounds completely normal, I see no point in sharing sexual preferences unless you are talking with someone you are sexually interested in.

There is a distinction between being ashamed of what you enjoy or simply not sharing personal information you have no need to share.

Boundaries are healthy. You should feel confortable to tell others to fuck off when they start overstepping boundaries or oversharing things you are not interested in.

 

[Rintal]

LOL! The main reason is that all these "DEV's" are not "developers" in full meaning of definition. It's just guys who want their game with Blackjack and hookers/make some easy money. They don't have experience, suitable education. They don't take any obligations. They don't understand how to develop and promote games. Just random guys who decide to do something cool.
You can, of course, search for deep meaning, pretend to be an artist suffering from a creative crisis, blame external factors, but in the end, everything is much more prosaic. Creating a full-fledged product is a fucking hard job! Even professionals don't always succeed. Why such optimism - to think that some inexperienced guy can handle it?

 

[Rintal]

This is true, and the reasoning is mainly because the porn community is seen as a less competitive and easier avenue to succeed than real life. Which is why there is going to be a overall worse quality of 'devs' as you say.

Why "going to be"? Already! This site is crammed with tons of low-grade garbage. Hundreds of games version 0.1 tagged "abandoned". But "creator" didn't forget to create a profile on Patreon, Itch.io, SubscribeStar and god knows where else. Of those games that somehow, with a creak and a rattle, continue to develop, only a very few are really interesting and original.
I don't see how things could get any worse. And it will never be better. It's just the natural state of affairs in this small industry.