VN Ren'Py Wild Cats [v0.3] [LopaPhi]

[Vitriks]

The Eve scene annoyed me. One of my biggest pet peeves in games is when a male protagonist gets into an argument or altercation with a female character, and the male character has to apologize when either both are in the wrong or the female character is solely in the wrong. Both were acting like brats, but only he should apologize?

What do you mean? How many times do you see fights between normal human beings? You have two options in a typical porn game, MC is a rapist and everyone hates him, or MC is a nice guy and every girl wants to get into his pants. I rarely see a game where girls shut down MC even if doesn't do anything, because he is not her type. Personally I love to watch conflicts and quarrels because it makes the character alive and shows that they really care for something.

As for EVE, getting her into the team is not the only thing he wanted from her Also she did apologize to him later on.

Eve - bookworm, quiet, doesn't get many chances to interact with men as she sits quietly studying.
Saki - asshole, delinquent, I guess the "friends" she had didn't really care or saw her as a little sister.
Desiree - Cinnamon roll, pure and innocent. Has hyper-vigilant friends making sure guys dont take advantage of her.
Zoe - as much as she hates the title, she is the dean's daughter and that seems to keep potential suitors at bay?
Fiona - hated and feared, bad news. Everyone stays away.

Eve - Cute and easy to approach. Anyone could date her.
Saki - boyish personality, so she probably had a friend who like that but didn't saw her as female
Desiree - Some pure and innocent boy (son of the pastor) or guy who's doing charity.
Zoe - Someone from the reaches with the same status and same "rich kid" logic.
Fiona - hated and feared inside the school. I don't think thugs would be afraid of her.

All I'm saying, you could always come up with something.

 

[shaq9]

Personally I love to watch conflicts and quarrels because it makes the character alive and shows that they really care for something.

I one hundred percent agree with you. In fact, the conflicts in this game drew me into it further and further. For me, a story is not really a story if it doesn't have conflict. So the fact that this game chose to start you off in a bad conflict with the main LI's was a breath of fresh air to me, believe it or not. Conflict itself was not my issue with it.

It was the conflict resolution that pissed me off. You asked me, "How many times do you see fights between normal human beings?" To answer your question, many, many times. I grew up in a bad neighborhood, so I saw conflict turn violent quickly. I'm not saying this to make myself sound like a tough guy either; in fact, the opposite. There were times I had to fistfightand got beat up because of a stupid misunderstanding. There were times I got mistaken for a gang member (because I wore the wrong color) and got jumped. And there were times I had arguments with women, where she was in the wrong, and she apologized. Or, if we were both in the wrong, either she or I apologized first.

So yes, I get conflict and conflict resolution. What I DON'T get is why the game decided to make conflict resolution COMPULSORY. You apologize and give her gifts and be the first to apologize, and blah blah blah, OR game over...? Huh??? It would have made the game more compelling if you were given the option NOT to apologize to her and have a route where you slowly (and organically) build back up trust and maybe feelings as the series progresses. But nope, you are not given that choice. It's either an extreme apology or game over. To me, that's dumb, frankly. No thanks.

 

[Penitensary]

So yes, I get conflict and conflict resolution. What I DON'T get is why the game decided to make conflict resolution COMPULSORY. You apologize and give her gifts and be the first to apologize, and blah blah blah, OR game over...? Huh??? It would have made the game more compelling if you were given the option NOT to apologize to her and have a route where you slowly (and organically) build back up trust and maybe feelings as the series progresses. But nope, you are not given that choice. It's either an extreme apology or game over. To me, that's dumb, frankly. No thanks.

That could work, but MC doesn't have time as the girls have alternatives in terms of clubs to join so he needs to fast track it. That's what the flowers are for, he needs to butter her up so she'll give him another chance in the short term.

For me, it's about having MC lose a battle to win the war, rather than stand his ground and have no volleyball team to coach and thus end the game. Flowers, apologies, shared showers and whatever else (some more enjoyable than others) are all with that end goal in mind, there is some strategic thought going on rather than just MC being Betacuck#364 and having people walk all over him without some form of planning involved, or having the girls all be drooling over his junk before Day 14.

That said, to each their own and this is just how i interpret it. Take it as you will, as usual

 

[shaq9]

For me, it's about having MC lose a battle to win the war, rather than stand his ground and have no volleyball team to coach and thus end the game. Flowers, apologies, shared showers and whatever else (some more enjoyable than others) are all with that end goal in mind, there is some strategic thought going on rather than just MC being Betacuck#364 and having people walk all over him without some form of planning involved, or having the girls all be drooling over his junk before Day 14.

That said, to each their own and this is just how i interpret it. Take it as you will, as usual

And you know what? If the MC had that thought process, "Damn. This Eve girl is annoying. Plus she offended me first. But if I want to get this volleyball team off the ground, I need to play nice. I hate to do it, but I have to be the bigger man, and apologize first here.", I could stomach that as well. But instead, it feels like, as you stated, Betacuck#364 (LMAO) because all of it was compulsory. Even when he got punched in the face, his immediate thought after was how HE messed up.

 

[Mr.Li]

I one hundred percent agree with you. In fact, the conflicts in this game drew me into it further and further. For me, a story is not really a story if it doesn't have conflict. So the fact that this game chose to start you off in a bad conflict with the main LI's was a breath of fresh air to me, believe it or not. Conflict itself was not my issue with it.

It was the conflict resolution that pissed me off. You asked me, "How many times do you see fights between normal human beings?" To answer your question, many, many times. I grew up in a bad neighborhood, so I saw conflict turn violent quickly. I'm not saying this to make myself sound like a tough guy either; in fact, the opposite. There were times I had to fistfightand got beat up because of a stupid misunderstanding. There were times I got mistaken for a gang member (because I wore the wrong color) and got jumped. And there were times I had arguments with women, where she was in the wrong, and she apologized. Or, if we were both in the wrong, either she or I apologized first.

So yes, I get conflict and conflict resolution. What I DON'T get is why the game decided to make conflict resolution COMPULSORY. You apologize and give her gifts and be the first to apologize, and blah blah blah, OR game over...? Huh??? It would have made the game more compelling if you were given the option NOT to apologize to her and have a route where you slowly (and organically) build back up trust and maybe feelings as the series progresses. But nope, you are not given that choice. It's either an extreme apology or game over. To me, that's dumb, frankly. No thanks.

In the patreon walkthrough, it says that you don't have to give her flowers. It just gives you a lot of points to make it easier for her to get a good impression out of you. Not choosing to give her anything can still continue the story, but you have to choose the right choices on the cafe scene. In the second update, she explained that she was only really there to give you the paper with the list of the members and have you leave, but decided to forgive you last minute and crumples it.

I guess us explaining won't change your mind anymore. For some reason people keep looking at the game thinking it's a power fantasy with a perfect MC when the synopsis alone already says it's not.

 

[SaSteiner]

Because remember, he still needs to get them to step foot on the volleyball court.. which is something they actually signed up for to begin with, but somehow, it's going to take some major effort from the MC. Why? Because reasons I guess, doesn't make it any less infuriating.

Which shows that you didn't really comprehend the story.
The Volleyball team is the black sheep of the college.
Something happened last year, featuring Fiona and the former trainer, afterwards Fiona became a persona non grata for everyone else and the team only exists on paper.
Which is the reason you as MC can study on that college: You have to bring the team back up.
Why the Dean does that? Because his daughter loves the sport, but the team in his own college is to bad for her to train there.
Eve is the only one who signed up to actually play.
Fiona is still in, a good former high school player,but since something happened, she hasn't trained.
Lexi is also a good high school player and was signed to the volleyball team because of that, not because she wants to.
Saki has chosen the volleyball because the bad reputation, so she has not to appear. (Plus she has family issues with her sister about this sport)

So every girl has a reason to be or not to be there. You can't say there is no story about that.

 

[shaq9]

I guess us explaining won't change your mind anymore. For some reason people keep looking at the game thinking it's a power fantasy with a perfect MC when the synopsis alone already says it's not.

Not at all. I tried the cafe scene and even when I had the MC apologize, it still ended the game because she said that even though she forgives the MC, she still doesnt feel comfortable with him. Which means that I have to offer her something (which I think she says no) in order to get enough points to avoid game over. Again, I wish you guys wouldnt misrepresent my opinion. It makes it not worth responding when you do. My opinion isnt, "grrrr I wish the girls would just shut up and open their legs". Its "what the hell, why am I FORCED to bend over backwards or have game over?" Thats whats annoying to me. Not the drama.

 

[Mr.Li]

Not at all. I tried the cafe scene and even when I had the MC apologize, it still ended the game because she said that even though she forgives the MC, she still doesnt feel comfortable with him. Which means that I have to offer her something (which I think she says no) in order to get enough points to avoid game over.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I looked at the game's code and the smiley face corresponds with the number of "eve mood" points. There's enough points to move the story forward even if you don't give her the flowers. It's just a huge increase in points like I said but not completely necessary. The only time it gives you a game over is when you don't choose the sincere options (which you clearly did) and the emjoi didn't smile . I mean, just to prove I'm right about this, I can give you the correct choices as stated in the patreon walkthrough that you can choose without giving her the flowers?

Again, I wish you guys wouldnt misrepresent my opinion. It makes it not worth responding when you do. My opinion isnt, "grrrr I wish the girls would just shut up and open their legs". Its "what the hell, why am I FORCED to bend over backwards or have game over?" Thats whats annoying to me. Not the drama.

The start of the story clearly showed you that the MC used to be a famous volleyball player. But since you got injured and lost it all, the MC doesn't really have anything else going for him. He has no leverage at all to make them play and you need their help in order for you to keep your scholarship. If they don't, then he'll go back to being a failure of a person which is what he's trying to prevent. In my honest opinion, I think how he's acting is something a reasonable person irl would do when you're asking for someone's help when your life depends on it.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Which shows that you didn't really comprehend the story.
The Volleyball team is the black sheep of the college.
Something happened last year, featuring Fiona and the former trainer, afterwards Fiona became a persona non grata for everyone else and the team only exists on paper.
Which is the reason you as MC can study on that college: You have to bring the team back up.
Why the Dean does that? Because his daughter loves the sport, but the team in his own college is to bad for her to train there.
Eve is the only one who signed up to actually play.
Fiona is still in, a good former high school player,but since something happened, she hasn't trained.
Lexi is also a good high school player and was signed to the volleyball team because of that, not because she wants to.
Saki has chosen the volleyball because the bad reputation, so she has not to appear. (Plus she has family issues with her sister about this sport)

So every girl has a reason to be or not to be there. You can't say there is no story about that.

Who said that there was no story?
What I pointed out was that they all signed up for volleyball, and are now straight up telling MC to fuck off when he's asking them to actually play volleyball.
It's just needless friction for absolutely zero purpose other than to frustrate the player, since you could have had them actually start playing the thing they fucking signed up for and THEN woven in their interpersonal issues. That isn't what was decided though, it's just an absolutely godless grind of frustration just to get them to step foot on the court at this point.

Eve is the only one who signed up to actually play.

Brotherman, you can't be on a team without having signed up for it, which Fiona did as she was on the team prior to the MC showing up but is now, as noted, absolutely fucking refusing to do anything about it.

Like, there's no functional way to spin this as a good thing or anywhere near logical, and neither are their behaviours. You can like a game and still criticize the idiotic parts of it, you don't have to glaze to the high heavens.

 

[Penitensary]

And you know what? If the MC had that thought process, "Damn. This Eve girl is annoying. Plus she offended me first. But if I want to get this volleyball team off the ground, I need to play nice. I hate to do it, but I have to be the bigger man, and apologize first here.", I could stomach that as well. But instead, it feels like, as you stated, Betacuck#364 (LMAO) because all of it was compulsory. Even when he got punched in the face, his immediate thought after was how HE messed up.

Fair enough. I have a tendency to try and get into an MCs head, so a lot of my impressions tend to be my brain filling out details that weren't mentioned but felt implied based on their perspective, and stuff i think would be a good idea and the distinction between the two does blur together at times. Like when he got punched in the face and thought it was his fault, to me that was not because he analyzed the situation and came to that conclusion, but because in MCs headspace everything bad happening to him defaulted to being his own fault, right back to losing the finals: His team lost not because they couldn't bring it home in the final stretch, but because he wasn't there and no amount of his former teammates telling him otherwise could change his mind.

Man's got enough self esteem issues to drown a whale in and it does take a while for him to kick himself in the ass, but once beyond that point the story picks up a little. Getting Eve to not quit (the aforementioned date) was the small w he needed to get back on track, so i view it as far more important than a date event would usually be. Looking at the game as a whole, the player has to work just as hard to get MC on the team as most of the girls

 

[Discrepancy]

Not at all. I tried the cafe scene and even when I had the MC apologize, it still ended the game because she said that even though she forgives the MC, she still doesnt feel comfortable with him. Which means that I have to offer her something (which I think she says no) in order to get enough points to avoid game over. Again, I wish you guys wouldnt misrepresent my opinion. It makes it not worth responding when you do. My opinion isnt, "grrrr I wish the girls would just shut up and open their legs". Its "what the hell, why am I FORCED to bend over backwards or have game over?" Thats whats annoying to me. Not the drama.

The dev time is already long enough, you don't want lots of routes where the MC can do this or that. And even if I don't share your opinion about how the conflict with the girls are being solved I see what you mean.
But I don't think anyone is misunderstanding you or trying to change your mind, it's just you stated your opinion and people are free to disagree with you, specially when this thread is for the game you criticizing, so chances are most people here are ok with how the dev chose to handle the conflicts.
Anyway lots of games here, I find this one really good, and really enjoy the things you criticize on the game, you don't and that's ok

 

[Mr.Li]

Who said that there was no story?
What I pointed out was that they all signed up for volleyball, and are now straight up telling MC to fuck off when he's asking them to actually play volleyball.
It's just needless friction for absolutely zero purpose other than to frustrate the player, since you could have had them actually start playing the thing they fucking signed up for and THEN woven in their interpersonal issues. That isn't what was decided though, it's just an absolutely godless grind of frustration just to get them to step foot on the court at this point.

I respectfully disagree. LopaPhi mentioned that his biggest inspiration for this AVN is Great Teacher Onizuka and a lot of american sports movies back in the 2000's. And if you've watched any of those, it's about one figure trying to get the problematic players/students to his side one by one. And in my opinion, by going with this direction, the bond and connection between the characters is stronger.

 

[shaq9]

Sorry, but you're wrong. I looked at the game's code and the smiley face corresponds with the number of "eve mood" points. There's enough points to move the story forward even if you don't give her the flowers. It's just a huge increase in points like I said but not completely necessary. The only time it gives you a game over is when you don't choose the sincere options (which you clearly did) and the emjoi didn't smile . I mean, just to prove I'm right about this, I can give you the correct choices as stated in the patreon walkthrough that you can choose without giving her the flowers?

Then maybe it has to do with the fact that I didnt apologize to her over the phone. I chose the second option to meet up. I dont know. All I know, is that if I apologize in the cafe, her mood goes from mad to "annoyed" and she says, "I forgive you, but I still wont join". Thats whats annoying.

 

[Ciaran8023]

I respectfully disagree. LopaPhi mentioned that his biggest inspiration for this AVN is Great Teacher Onizuka and a lot of american sports movies back in the 2000's. And if you've watched any of those, it's about one figure trying to get the problematic players/students to his side one by one. And in my opinion, by going with this direction, the bond and connection between the characters is stronger.

There's a difference between a problematic student and students who are outright acting absurdly irrational, especially for a first encounter.
I love me some GTO, but the game is vastly different from that.

Even the deans daughter, supposedly a very sharp and attentive individual, dropped probably the most soul-crushing comment that MC could have ever gotten, instantly got defensive over it and decided that MC was in the wrong for flying off the handle, never once questioned that she could be wrong and she has yet to apologize for it.
Another one literally punched someone in the face over a disagreement.

Any rational being would, at that point, not even bother trying to get close to them because you have literally no indication of whether or not they're going to flip their shit again and do something worse.
This is the biggest issue with making characters extremely combative and antagonistic from the get-go is that you erode any sort of trust you might have for the characters to actually act like human beings.

 

[Mr.Li]

Then maybe it has to do with the fact that I didnt apologize to her over the phone. I chose the second option to meet up. I dont know. All I know, is that if I apologize in the cafe, her mood goes from mad to "annoyed" and she says, "I forgive you, but I still wont join". Thats whats annoying.

Perhaps. I think Eve having four different outcomes on that event (with two being bad ends) alone gives the scene a lot of depth. Just because you forgave the person doesn't mean you can and want to work with them. Kind of like still being acquainted with an ex wife, but both can't live in the same house anymore. That kind of thing.

 

[shaq9]

The dev time is already long enough, you don't want lots of routes where the MC can do this or that. And even if I don't share your opinion about how the conflict with the girls are being solved I see what you mean.
But I don't think anyone is misunderstanding you or trying to change your mind,

I was specifically referring to when someone wrote this to me - " I guess us explaining won't change your mind anymore. For some reason people keep looking at the game thinking it's a power fantasy with a perfect MC when the synopsis alone already says it's not. "

They were implying that I wanted a power fantasy MC and not drama, which is false. But I do agree with you that there are other games on this site, and I should focus on them and let you guys enjoy this one. Because of that, I plan to go radio silent on this thread, even if people respond to me again. have a nice day.
It just sucks because I planned to solo LI that black queen Desiree. Oh well

 

[shaq9]

There's a difference between a problematic student and students who are outright acting absurdly irrational, especially for a first encounter.
I love me some GTO, but the game is vastly different from that.

Even the deans daughter, supposedly a very sharp and attentive individual, dropped probably the most soul-crushing comment that MC could have ever gotten, instantly got defensive over it and decided that MC was in the wrong for flying off the handle, never once questioned that she could be wrong and she has yet to apologize for it.
Another one literally punched someone in the face over a disagreement.

Any rational being would, at that point, not even bother trying to get close to them because you have literally no indication of whether or not they're going to flip their shit again and do something worse.
This is the biggest issue with making characters extremely combative and antagonistic from the get-go is that you erode any sort of trust you might have for the characters to actually act like human beings.

Facts

 

[MrLKX]

What I pointed out was that they all signed up for volleyball

It's funny that you mention that, because one of the team members didn't even know she was on the team, as she was simply added to the list by someone she didn't know.

The extent to which this constitutes legitimate inclusion in the team when the person doesn't even know they're on it is another question.

 

[Ciaran8023]

It's funny that you mention that, because one of the team members didn't even know she was on the team, as she was simply added to the list by someone she didn't know.

The extent to which this constitutes legitimate inclusion in the team when the person doesn't even know they're on it is another question.

That's fair, she does get a pass, I did remember about it after I posted but I was too lazy to edit.

That being said, the individual adding her to the roster without her knowledge should be reprimanded.

 

[MrLKX]

That being said, the individual adding her to the roster without her knowledge should be reprimanded.

On that we agree.

I also can't help but say that, aside from the rumors about Fiona, there's something wrong with this school. To quote Shakespeare: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

And if I'm not mistaken, Lexi described Fiona as “reserved.” Part of me would find it funny if it turned out that she's the biggest softie on the team. Although, I think that role will go to another lady who isn't on the team yet. And I've written this before, but I'm curious to find out what happened in the old team, with the old coach, that made her so hated. Okay, it's pretty obvious what things could have happened, but the question so far is: Which of these things was it and how deeply was the dean involved?