VN Ren'Py Wild Cats [v0.3] [LopaPhi]

[Ciaran8023]

On that we agree.

I also can't help but say that, aside from the rumors about Fiona, there's something wrong with this school. To quote Shakespeare: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

And if I'm not mistaken, Lexi described Fiona as “reserved.” Part of me would find it funny if it turned out that she's the biggest softie on the team. Although, I think that role will go to another lady who isn't on the team yet. And I've written this before, but I'm curious to find out what happened in the old team, with the old coach, that made her so hated. Okay, it's pretty obvious what things could have happened, but the question so far is: Which of these things was it and how deeply was the dean involved?

I think the bigger question is if the dean is involved to protect the previous coach or to protect Fiona, and whether or not he wanted to do so or was forced to do so.
Fiona is pretty heavily hinted to be involved with organized crime, which complicates the scenario a fair bit, but does sort of lean towards the dean likely trying to make things go away to protect the previous coach given that Fiona can probably put leverage on basically anyone due to her background.. or just make someone disappear.

Not entirely sure yet if there's something in the school that doesn't add up, or if there's something specifically with Fiona that doesn't add up.
Sure, Lexi described her as reserved, but that was also years in the past and there's nothing to say that Fiona wasn't putting up a front to keep people from getting involved with her.

Just a lot of questions and a very, jjudging from what the MC found out and experienced, antagonistic individual there.

 

[Mr.Li]

There's a difference between a problematic student and students who are outright acting absurdly irrational, especially for a first encounter.
I love me some GTO, but the game is vastly different from that.

I'm not sure if we watched the same show, but in GTO, especially in the first episodes, the students there did a lot that are considered a serious crime such as blackmail, extortion, and even kidnapping. While in here, it's more light teasing and snarky comments due to the MC's behavior.

Even the deans daughter, supposedly a very sharp and attentive individual, dropped probably the most soul-crushing comment that MC could have ever gotten, instantly got defensive over it and decided that MC was in the wrong for flying off the handle, never once questioned that she could be wrong and she has yet to apologize for it.
Another one literally punched someone in the face over a disagreement.

If you've ever put two people in real life in an argument where both parties thinks they're right, most of the time you will never see an apology from both sides due to the ego and pride involved. As the player, you see both sides of the argument and can judge who's right and wrong. But in the character's perspective, both think they're right and will not apologize unless one side realizes they are wrong (which irl, most of the time they won't even admit they are wrong). From how I see it, if the MC doesn't have to, he won't apologize either. But had to because he needs her to play for him.

Any rational being would, at that point, not even bother trying to get close to them because you have literally no indication of whether or not they're going to flip their shit again and do something worse.
This is the biggest issue with making characters extremely combative and antagonistic from the get-go is that you erode any sort of trust you might have for the characters to actually act like human beings.

This is just how people are. As long as there's free will, even your friend for over ten years can possibly betray you at anytime. But people being capable of that, but choosing not to screw you over is what makes a relationship/friendship special. Not everyone is a fluffy marshmallow pacifist. Quite frankly, among the LIs, I think Desiree is the most unrealistic one among all of them. When it comes to characters being antagonistic from the get-go, I think it's better to focus more on why they are antagonistic in the first place. And the "why" is the story portion which gets revealed as the story goes.

What I pointed out was that they all signed up for volleyball

They did. But all of them each had their own circumstances as to why they weren't showing up.

Eve - Wants to play but there's no team.
Saki - Only signed up so people will leave her alone
Zoe - Explained that she did join and tried to fix the team at the start of the year, but the rumor was so bad that nobody wanted to join. So she went somewhere else. Which justifies her bitterness towards the volleyball team
Lexi - Someone put her name in without her even knowing.
Fiona - Something we'll probably find out in chapter 3.
Desiree - Not even in the team

 

[Ciaran8023]

I'm not sure if we watched the same show, but in GTO, especially in the first episodes, the students there did a lot that are considered a serious crime such as blackmail, extortion, and even kidnapping. While in here, it's more light teasing and snarky comments due to the MC's behavior.

And Onizuka himself was unfathomably more of a crook than the MC and the founder of a biker gang.
What's your point even?

If you've ever put two people in real life in an argument where both parties thinks they're right, most of the time you will never see an apology from both sides due to the ego and pride involved. As the player, you see both sides of the argument and can judge who's right and wrong. But in the character's perspective, both think they're right and will not apologize unless one side realizes they are wrong (which irl, most of the time they won't even admit they are wrong). From how I see it, if the MC doesn't have to, he won't apologize either. But had to because he needs her to play for him.

There's a difference between thinking that they're right and not even considering that they might be wrong. One is self-assurance, the other is delusion.
Moreover, the MC already apologized, she hasn't. She, again, is supposedly a bright and attentive individual but doesn't even consider that anything she said could have hurt the MC, and she also outright assumed that the MC just decided to fuck off for no reason and end his professional career for shits and giggles while also being completely dead-set on her assumption being the truth while she hates people making assumptions about her.

On what planet would anyone willingly interact with someone like this after what we've seen?

This is just how people are. Even your friend for over ten years can possibly betray you at anytime. Not everyone is a fluffy marshmallow. Quite frankly, among the LIs, I think Desiree is the most unrealistic one among all of them. When it comes to characters being antagonistic from the get-go, I think it's better to focus more on why they are antagonistic in the first place. And the "why" is the story portion which gets revealed as the story goes.

This is a game on a porn forum, based on love interests. It isn't real life, it isn't the Great Gatsby, if you make characters that are completely insufferable, that isn't exactly a good choice.
If you repeatedly get punched whether physically or emotionally for just approaching them, there is zero incentive to keep doing so if the game did not force it.

Why doesn't matter, if a person is just dogshit from the get-go, there's nothing that can actually salvage that as it just shows an inherent lack of respect for other people.
Being shitty is an active choice, a choice that they made.

They did. But all of them each had their own circumstances as to why they weren't showing up.

Eve - Wants to play but there's no team.
Saki - Only signed up so people will leave her alone
Zoe - Explained that she did join and tried to fix the team at the start of the year, but the rumor was so bad that nobody wanted to join. So she went somewhere else. Which justifies her bitterness towards the volleyball team
Lexi - Someone put her name in without her even knowing.
Fiona - Something we'll probably find out in chapter 3.
Desiree - Not even in the team

And none of that actually holds water.
If you sign up for something, you stick to it and try to make it work, when someone shows up and is actively making an effort, the first reaction shouldn't be to basically spit on their existence.
These individuals, for the most part, actually likes volleyball and wants to play, yet for some reason just straight up tells the MC to fuck off and die when he suggests to actually play the game.

Make it make sense, because even with people who suffer with heavy trauma or are disappointed or whatever it may be, the vast majority of them will actually try when it comes to their passion.
NONE of the individuals here did so, besides Eve, but that was after the MC had to do a 720 spetznas backflip apology into a dogeza with a bouquet of roses jutting out of his ass.

 

[MrLKX]

Sure, Lexi described her as reserved, but that was also years in the past and there's nothing to say that Fiona wasn't putting up a front to keep people from getting involved with her.

In her second encounter with MC, she mutters something along the lines of “Who would have thought that being hated would be so hard?” or something like that.

My guess is that Fiona was friends with a former team member. The coach was a little too interested in Fiona's friend, and Fiona intervened violently to protect her friend. The parents took this friend out of school, the dean removed the coach, and the whole thing was swept under the rug to protect this friend, possibly at the parents' request. Fiona was either given the option to leave the school and start over somewhere else with a “clean slate,” which she either didn't want to do because Lexi, her old rival, was there and she hoped to have one last real game against her old rival (which she lost on purpose, according to Fiona), or she had no way of changing schools for other reasons that we don't know about.

The stuff about organized crime and Fiona, is that one of the rumors circulating about her on campus? If so, it could just be a story that the students made up to make sense of last year's events, and Fiona is just playing along to keep people at a distance.

 

[Vitriks]

It would have made the game more compelling if you were given the option NOT to apologize to her and have a route where you slowly (and organically) build back up trust and maybe feelings as the series progresses. But nope, you are not given that choice. It's either an extreme apology or game over. To me, that's dumb, frankly. No thanks.

1. Harder, more time consuming approach. Honestly flowers are a better option.
2. He already showed her a tough side, now it was a turn of a soft side.
3. What's the point? To show how stubborn MC is? How is Eve so "hard to get" girl? For me it sounds like overcomplicating things. I mean it would work for VN, but there is no reason to do it in AVN especially since we have other LI. He wins her back with masterfully planned assault. That is something worth seeing.

Spoiler: She did apologize.

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[Ciaran8023]

In her second encounter with MC, she mutters something along the lines of “Who would have thought that being hated would be so hard?” or something like that.

True, but it doesn't actually mean that what she did was self-sacrifice, it could equally have been that she acted out of self-interest and gradually realized that her actions had more consequence than she anticipated.

My guess is that Fiona was friends with a former team member. The coach was a little too interested in Fiona's friend, and Fiona intervened violently to protect her friend. The parents took this friend out of school, the dean removed the coach, and the whole thing was swept under the rug to protect this friend, possibly at the parents' request. Fiona was either given the option to leave the school and start over somewhere else with a “clean slate,” which she either didn't want to do because Lexi, her old rival, was there and she hoped to have one last real game against her old rival (which she lost on purpose, according to Fiona), or she had no way of changing schools for other reasons that we don't know about.

Eh, hard to say but it feels like it was something more serious on Fiona's part.
I also don't think that Lexi actually matters enough for her to stick around, I think she probably just went "well that's taken care of" and went about her business, don't think she considered leaving the school in the first place.

The stuff about organized crime and Fiona, is that one of the rumors circulating about her on campus? If so, it could just be a story that the students made up to make sense of last year's events, and Fiona is just playing along to keep people at a distance.

I had to boot up the game and check specifically where these things were stated.
The basketball coach, faculty, noted that Fiona was someone you don't want to get involved with. She brought people in from the outside to brutalize the previous coach and the rest of the team left the day after.
I think the organized crime part came up in previous discussions given the fact that she apparently summoned dudes to assault someone and didn't get expelled or even reported to the police, hard to do something like that if it isn't gang or crime related. There might be more mentions but I ctrl-skimmed a lot of it honestly.
If the coach was someone who was doing something bad towards a teammember, it doesn't make sense for the team to leave, other than either Fiona had people beat the shit out of an innocent person or intimidated the team to not say anything. Moreover, the dean only suspended her after she brought in people from the outside to assault someone.

Also, even though Fiona said "it's not like a told the others to not practice", something just doesn't add up with what she's saying and what happened.
If she's as innocent as she's portraying herself to be with her behaviour later on, it doesn't make sense that the team just decided to fuck off and start avoiding her.




Also going over the game again, every time any of the characters find out that MC is at odds with a different character, the reaction is always "oh so what did you do now"?
Goddamn, forgot how actually annoying this shit is.

 

[Krytax123]

1. Harder, more time consuming approach. Honestly flowers are a better option.
2. He already showed her a tough side, now it was a turn of a soft side.
3. What's the point? To show how stubborn MC is? How is Eve so "hard to get" girl? For me it sounds like overcomplicating things. I mean it would work for VN, but there is no reason to do it in AVN especially since we have other LI. He wins her back with masterfully planned assault. That is something worth seeing.

To me it always feels like these guys project their irl problems with women on the games and feel happy if they can "punish" women in an avn into loving them, it always sounds very insecure to me lmao

The important thing is the MC having a spine which imo is the case here, i liked the conflicts and the resolutions, it did lead to just the right amount of tension between the MC and the LI's

 

[Mr.Li]

And Onizuka himself was unfathomably more of a crook than the MC and the founder of a biker gang.
What's your point even?

Except in GTO, the students also did those crimes to even regular teachers before Onizuka came in. You asked "There's a difference between a problematic student and students who are outright acting absurdly irrational, especially for a first encounter". That's my point. The students did that to anyone who tried to teach them.

There's a difference between thinking that they're right and not even considering that they might be wrong. One is self-assurance, the other is delusion.
Moreover, the MC already apologized, she hasn't. She, again, is supposedly a bright and attentive individual but doesn't even consider that anything she said could have hurt the MC, and she also outright assumed that the MC just decided to fuck off for no reason and end his professional career for shits and giggles while also being completely dead-set on her assumption being the truth while she hates people making assumptions about her.

On what planet would anyone willingly interact with someone like this after what we've seen?

As the reader, and not the character, we see both sides of the argument. We can see who's either delusional or not. and But in the character's shoes, both think they are right. And with strong emotions involved, things can escalate into a full blown argument and even insult. As with villains. The most well written and most terrifying ones are the ones who do evil, but think they do good.

If you've ever worked in job, you're going to have colleagues and even bosses who behave worse. But people have to put up with it because it's their job. I view the MC's situation as something similar. But if the MC doesn't have to? He probably would, he probably wouldn't. Only the dev knows.

This is a game on a porn forum, based on love interests. It isn't real life, it isn't the Great Gatsby, if you make characters that are completely insufferable, that isn't exactly a good choice.
If you repeatedly get punched whether physically or emotionally for just approaching them, there is zero incentive to keep doing so if the game did not force it.

Why doesn't matter, if a person is just dogshit from the get-go, there's nothing that can actually salvage that as it just shows an inherent lack of respect for other people.
Being shitty is an active choice, a choice that they made.

I'm discussing this with you like I would with my fellow book lovers. Not because this is a porn forum. I think AVNs are another form of literature and I love me some good literature. Movies, books, anime, games. And most of the most compelling characters I've read were actually insufferable and outright hated at the start, but came to be loved after finding out more about their story. Think of Akaza from demon slayer or Jamie Lannister from The song of Ice and Fire. Or even House from House MD. That guy's an asshole but all us watchers love watching him and think he's a great character.

And none of that actually holds water.
If you sign up for something, you stick to it and try to make it work, when someone shows up and is actively making an effort, the first reaction shouldn't be to basically spit on their existence.
These individuals, for the most part, actually likes volleyball and wants to play, yet for some reason just straight up tells the MC to fuck off and die when he suggests to actually play the game.

Make it make sense, because even with people who suffer with heavy trauma or are disappointed or whatever it may be, the vast majority of them will actually try when it comes to their passion.
NONE of the individuals here did so, besides Eve, but that was after the MC had to do a 720 spetznas backflip apology into a dogeza with a bouquet of roses jutting out of his ass.

It does hold water. Eve already wanted to at first, but the MC was acting like an asshole and has the right to choose not to work with him. Saki is a bonified delinquent and couldn't gie a fuck. Zoe became bitter and wanted nothing to do with it anymore and even mentioned she forgot to take her name off the roster yet. Lexi and Desiree naturally have no responsibility towards the team, and Fiona's story still hasn't been revealed yet.

And it makes sense. If you're talking about the dean's daughter here, she had access to an expensive gym that has all the equipment she needs and could be trained by the best coaches in the country. If we're talking about passion alone, why settle for less? Especially when MC tried to recruit her, he only had two people on his team?



In any case, how I view stories is probably different from how you view them. Whenever I read something, I always to to approach them with curiosity rather than contempt. And to appreciate it for what it is, rather than being disappointed when it doesn't turn out what you want it to be. Is this game perfect? No, it's not. But something doesn't have to be perfect for people to enjoy it.

 

[Dessolos]

not gonna lie I didn't read any of these post of the current discussion but it has me going man I can't remember a damn thing only some details here and there. This game is to long for me to replay at least until it gets at least 2 more updates

 

[Ciaran8023]

Except in GTO, the students also did those crimes to even regular teachers before Onizuka came in. You asked "There's a difference between a problematic student and students who are outright acting absurdly irrational, especially for a first encounter". That's my point. The students did that to anyone who tried to teach them.

Which doesn't apply to the game, unless you're trying to imply that the deans daughter is a known delinquent, as she was one of the more egregious offenders in terms of outright hostility.

If you've ever worked in job, you're going to have colleagues and even bosses who behave worse. But people have to put up with it because it's their job. I view the MC's situation as something similar. But if the MC doesn't have to? He probably would, he probably wouldn't. Only the dev knows.

As I posted a while back in this thread regarding some of the behaviours, I have worked in a youth rehabilitation program before, I've met a lot of people who deliberately decided to do shitty things and people who did shitty things out of necessity.
Very few of them were as quick to hostility as some of the 'normal' students in this game, and those that were generally had developmental problems that manifested in anger issues.

The reason why I react to their behaviours isn't because I've met people who've done worse, but it's because these are supposed to be in general "average students" outside of Fiona, yet in the case of Zoey for example, they behave worse than actual delinquents in a medium where the first interaction is imperative for retention and interest.

I'm discussing this with you like I would with my fellow book lovers. Not because this is a porn forum. I think AVNs are another form of literature and I love me some good literature. Movies, books, anime, games. And most of the most compelling characters I've read were actually insufferable and outright hated at the start, but came to be loved after finding out more about their story. Think of Akaza from demon slayer or Jamie Lannister from The song of Ice and Fire. Or even House from House MD. That guy's an asshole but all us watchers love watching him and think he's a great character.

This isn't a fantasy novel. People play AVN's for the porn and the romance, it's like saying that you read thrillers for the sake of comedy.
If you start off a game, or a novel that is supposed to invoke lust or something akin to that, making them fucking terrible people is the actual opposite of the point.
Sure you can write a romance novel where the main love interest throws babies into a meat grinder, but it's not going to actually garner much romantic interest from the people reading it. It's an exaggerated example but it's mainly to point out how egregious it is to have a lineup of LI's that are for the most part impossible to interact with without grating your teeth.

It does hold water. Eve already wanted to at first, but the MC was acting like an asshole and has the right to choose not to work with him. Saki is a bonified delinquent and couldn't gie a fuck. Zoe became bitter and wanted nothing to do with it anymore and even mentioned she forgot to take her name off the roster yet. Lexi and Desiree naturally have no responsibility towards the team, and Fiona's story still hasn't been revealed yet.

As I said, literally none of that holds water.
Feel free to go to any local college and ask them what they'd do to individuals who sign up for a team that's meant to compete on a regional level, yet doesn't bother to show up for practice. I can guarantee you that any individuals that does so will end up getting kicked, and I can also guarantee that any individuals that actually care about the sport will not do so to begin with, hence why the LI behaviours in this game is so mind-bogglingly antithetical to how a normal person would react or behave.

And it makes sense. If you're talking about the dean's daughter here, she had access to an expensive gym that has all the equipment she needs and could be trained by the best coaches in the country. If we're talking about passion alone, why settle for less? Especially when MC tried to recruit her, he only had two people on his team?

Excluding the fact that she knows who the MC is and the fact that he was the most talented up and coming player on basically the entire regional scene?
That in itself is far more of an incentive to go along with something she's actually passionate about, but given that she basically told him that he was a weakhearted, washed up good-for-nothing and then decided that it was the correct thing to say, and that was before there was even any argument, she doesn't seem to actually give a fuck given how she's protrayed.

If you actually replay the scene, they're talking and she offhandedly, smirking said "I guess one loss is enough for you to give up and disappear entirely. Quite the frail hearted of a man you are, wouldn't you think?".
In no universe is that something to joke about to an ex-athlete, and it's no wonder that an argument ended up breaking out after that, and I can almost guarantee that she decided that the team can fuck off entirely after the argument. She wasn't going previously since there was no team, but after that in her incredible wisdom and half-assed assumption, she decided to not go anywhere near it due to the MC existing given that she was just about to say "but if you ask me, I will" or something along those lines.
Which then prompts the MC to bend over backwards to apologize, and she has yet to apologize for what she said and I fucking doubt she even realized just how scathing the remark was because she's dead certain that she was correct.

Nothing about her as a character makes sense in the lens of an AVN, because by god she'd absolutely succeed in pissing off even the most dogged AVN players.

In any case, how I view stories is probably different from how you view them. Whenever I read something, I always to to approach them with curiosity rather than contempt. And to appreciate it for what it is, rather than being disappointed when it doesn't turn out what you want it to be. Is this game perfect? No, it's not. But something doesn't have to be perfect for people to enjoy it.

I don't care if people enjoy it, they're free to do so, I do take notice when people try to defend the initial character interactions and decisions behind them, because they generally just are extremely poor given that this is an AVN and that is across the board aswell.
It's one thing to have one or two LI's be extremely antagonistic and difficult to approach, but when like 90% of them fall within that category, it's very difficult to try to justify or defend.

 

[iIIusory]

To me it always feels like these guys project their irl problems with women on the games and feel happy if they can "punish" women in an avn into loving them, it always sounds very insecure to me lmao

The important thing is the MC having a spine which imo is the case here, i liked the conflicts and the resolutions, it did lead to just the right amount of tension between the MC and the LI's

it's actually crazy that people on here are so distraught over a guy apologizing for almost hitting a woman

 

[Discrepancy]

This isn't a fantasy novel. People play AVN's for the porn and the romance, it's like saying that you read thrillers for the sake of comedy.
If you start off a game, or a novel that is supposed to invoke lust or something akin to that, making them fucking terrible people is the actual opposite of the point.
Sure you can write a romance novel where the main love interest throws babies into a meat grinder, but it's not going to actually garner much romantic interest from the people reading it. It's an exaggerated example but it's mainly to point out how egregious it is to have a lineup of LI's that are for the most part impossible to interact with without grating your teeth.

You wrote a lot and I disagree with most of what you wrote, but that doesn't matter, everybody has the right for their opinions, and I'm not here to try to change yours.
With that said I really want to comment on this, this is just factually wrong sorry, people can play AVN for lots of reasons, even if most play for the porn, other play for lots of other reasons, I for once don't really care for the romance part most of the times, but you say people play for that. I play mostly for interesting stories and interactions between characters, and interesting and specially flawed characters usually lead to interesting stories and that's what I'm mostly here for.
I'm not saying your view is wrong but it's not universal, yes you play AVNs for porn and romance but not everyone do.

 

[Discrepancy]

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Dev log #24

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Hey everyone!

How've you all been? First of all, sorry if the dev log's late. I didn't want to post it yet until I had some good news to share. And good news I sure have! The chapter's finally done! Both script and renders.

Though it still needs to go through three hoops. Greenscheme is now in the middle of editing and giving suggestions to make the dialogue feel more alive. After that, it'll be sent for proof reading and testing. And once that's finally done, give it to the translators for some translatin'!
After all that's checked, I'll post a release dates, so look forward to that.

In the mean time, my work's still not done yet. I'll be revising the previous chapters to fix all spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes missed. Then add bgm's and sfx into the game.

Anyway, chapter currently has 43k words, 1650 images, and 18 animations. This isn't final though as it's still gonna go through proof reading and editing. It's quite a wordy and story heavy chapter if I do say so myself. Hope you'll all enjoy it once it's out. Shouldn't be much longer now.

I'll send a chapter 3 poster soon. Something similar to what I did for chapter 2 .

And that's it for now. I'm gonna go hit the sack as I still need to wake up for work in a few hours. But before that, thank you all for being here. It makes me feel incredibly lucky and happy to know that what I'm making is worth your time.

Like always, my DM's are open so feel free to DM away.

Thank you!

LopaPhi

 

[Ciaran8023]

You wrote a lot and I disagree with most of what you wrote, but that doesn't matter, everybody has the right for their opinions, and I'm not here to try to change yours.
With that said I really want to comment on this, this is just factually wrong sorry, people can play AVN for lots of reasons, even if most play for the porn, other play for lots of other reasons, I for once don't really care for the romance part most of the times, but you say people play for that. I play mostly for interesting stories and interactions between characters, and interesting and specially flawed characters usually lead to interesting stories and that's what I'm mostly here for.
I'm not saying your view is wrong but it's not universal, yes you play AVNs for porn and romance but not everyone do.

There's a difference in what you choose to look for, and what the medium is intended to do.
The utmost VAST majority play AVN's for the porn and romance, and less so for the plot. That's just how it is. Saying that AVN's being catered towards people looking for porn somehow being incorrect because it doesn't specifically apply to you is a bit facetious to say.

I personally play the games for much of the same reasons you do, but I don't delude myself into thinking that AVN's are somehow a high-brow arthouse medium and that it isn't intended to be for the porn.

 

[Dessolos]

You wrote a lot and I disagree with most of what you wrote, but that doesn't matter, everybody has the right for their opinions, and I'm not here to try to change yours.
With that said I really want to comment on this, this is just factually wrong sorry, people can play AVN for lots of reasons, even if most play for the porn, other play for lots of other reasons, I for once don't really care for the romance part most of the times, but you say people play for that. I play mostly for interesting stories and interactions between characters, and interesting and specially flawed characters usually lead to interesting stories and that's what I'm mostly here for.
I'm not saying your view is wrong but it's not universal, yes you play AVNs for porn and romance but not everyone do.

100% agree. I for one play for the characters interactions ( non lewd ones) , than romance , followed by story I don't even care about sex in these games unless im playing some NTR / sharing game or something that is clearly about the sex more than anything else.

 

[Discrepancy]

There's a difference in what you choose to look for, and what the medium is intended to do.
The utmost VAST majority play AVN's for the porn and romance, and less so for the plot. That's just how it is. Saying that AVN's being catered towards people looking for porn somehow being incorrect because it doesn't specifically apply to you is a bit facetious to say.

I personally play the games for much of the same reasons you do, but I don't delude myself into thinking that AVN's are somehow a high-brow arthouse medium and that it isn't intended to be for the porn.

I agreed that most people played for the porn, I disagree most play for the romance.
And this game even if isn't some high-brow arthouse is doing something right, when even you that don't like how the LIs act still play it and enjoy it

 

[Krytax123]

There's a difference in what you choose to look for, and what the medium is intended to do.
The utmost VAST majority play AVN's for the porn and romance, and less so for the plot. That's just how it is. Saying that AVN's being catered towards people looking for porn somehow being incorrect because it doesn't specifically apply to you is a bit facetious to say.

I personally play the games for much of the same reasons you do, but I don't delude myself into thinking that AVN's are somehow a high-brow arthouse medium and that it isn't intended to be for the porn.

Man your style of discussion is utterly annoying, always claiming youre speaking for some kind of majority while its obviously just your thoughts and opinions. Very preachy and hard to stomach esp as its not even clever or thought provoking.

You trying to educate avn readers about the reasons why they are reading avns (while there are countless different reasons) is just the cherry on the top.

I think its kinda funny how two guys come to this thread and declare the LI's shit (everyone but flawless cute desiree of course, she adores you guys probably enough from the get go) just because your little ego cant stand them lol

Desiree is great but imo by far the most boring one in this avn, i (and i assume others too as the avn is well liked) actually enjoyed these partially flawed LI's and the flawed MC. Way more interesting than the usual puppy-like LI's in the usual hs avn who dont care about anything than being a good fucktoy for the MC from the get go.

The conflict and tension imo was/is great and the solutions adequate, you behave like the MC had to sacrifice his spine which is imo not the case.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Man your style of discussion is utterly annoying, always claiming youre speaking for some kind of majority while its obviously just your thoughts and opinions. Very preachy and hard to stomach esp as its not even clever or thought provoking.

Brotherman, enlighten me, for what purpose does AVN's exist that regular VN's generally do not do?

You trying to educate avn readers about the reasons why they are reading avns (while there are countless different reasons) is just the cherry on the top.

If you interpret "the vast majority of people playing AVN's do so for the porn" as somehow trying to 'educate' people who do not do so, myself included, then that is entirely on you.
I can't stop you from making leaps in logic, you do you buddy.

I think its kinda funny how two guys come to this thread and declare the LI's shit (everyone but flawless cute desiree of course, she adores you guys probably enough from the get go) just because your little ego cant stand them lol

Well, given that I specifically noted that they have shit behaviour, you claiming that I'm somehow calling them shit as a blanket statement is projecting a bit.
I also really don't care about Desiree, and I haven't mentioned her because she hasn't exactly had any interaction with the MC outside of just basic kindness, haven't seen any type of personality from her besides "naive and kind", granted it's better than most of them but there's just no substance to her.

Desiree is great but imo by far the most boring one in this avn, i (and i assume others too as the avn is well liked) actually enjoyed these partially flawed LI's and the flawed MC. Way more interesting than the usual puppy-like LI's in the usual hs avn who dont care about anything than being a good fucktoy for the MC from the get go.

Okay?
Again, I never mentioned Desiree, buddy. You're fighting ghosts.

The conflict and tension imo was/is great and the solutions adequate, you behave like the MC had to sacrifice his spine which is imo not the case.

He did have to sacrifice his spine, since he had no choice but to do so.
I don't give a shit if the MC is forced to bend over backwards, what irks me is when the foil character to the MC, or in this case several, simply do not adhere to the same rules.
Zoey is easily the most egregious case as she's yet to apologize for what she said which was some pretty gnarly shit for someone in MC's shoes, Fiona a close second since she has yet to apologize for literally punching the MC in the face.

I'm not sure how or why you're trying to somehow infer any sort of deep psychological meaning that doesn't even exist to begin with.
The start and the end of the argument has always been that the MC, while being a little bitch, apologized for his actions albeit mostly out of necessity, and he's shown to be a rational character or atleast becoming more rational.
The vast majority of the LI's, on the other hand, has not done so and has come off as more than irrational, which is just a poor way to introduce characters that people are supposed to be attracted/interested in. It isn't any deeper than that buddy.

 

[Dessolos]

Man your style of discussion is utterly annoying, always claiming youre speaking for some kind of majority while its obviously just your thoughts and opinions. Very preachy and hard to stomach esp as its not even clever or thought provoking.

You trying to educate avn readers about the reasons why they are reading avns (while there are countless different reasons) is just the cherry on the top.

I think its kinda funny how two guys come to this thread and declare the LI's shit (everyone but flawless cute desiree of course, she adores you guys probably enough from the get go) just because your little ego cant stand them lol

Desiree is great but imo by far the most boring one in this avn, i (and i assume others too as the avn is well liked) actually enjoyed these partially flawed LI's and the flawed MC. Way more interesting than the usual puppy-like LI's in the usual hs avn who dont care about anything than being a good fucktoy for the MC from the get go.

The conflict and tension imo was/is great and the solutions adequate, you behave like the MC had to sacrifice his spine which is imo not the case.

Yeah I learnt from another thread when I see long post from him just ignore them. They are annoying and frankly tiring to read unless you are bored and got lots of time. id imagine he would win alot of arguments on here just by the other person not wanting to keep going as it's very time consuming and tiring.

 

[Krytax123]

Brotherman, enlighten me, for what purpose does AVN's exist that regular VN's generally do not do?


If you interpret "the vast majority of people playing AVN's do so for the porn" as somehow trying to 'educate' people who do not do so, myself included, then that is entirely on you.
I can't stop you from making leaps in logic, you do you buddy.

Thats the thing, its different for different people. Some play for the lewds, some for the romance, some for the story, some for the relationship development, its impossible to just reduce it to "people play it for porn" otherwise they would just watch porn which has way higher quality lol

So some interactivity is apparently appreciated in the medium, why that is, is different from person to person. And the same person can play different AVNs for different reasons. You can enjoy a kink-focused avn for the porn and at the same time a story focused avn for the story.

Well, given that I specifically noted that they have shit behaviour, you claiming that I'm somehow calling them shit as a blanket statement is projecting a bit.
I also really don't care about Desiree, and I haven't mentioned her because she hasn't exactly had any interaction with the MC outside of just basic kindness, haven't seen any type of personality from her besides "naive and kind", granted it's better than most of them but there's just no substance to her.


Okay?
Again, I never mentioned Desiree, buddy. You're fighting ghosts.

Nah i just lumped you and the other poster together as you two guys are agreeing with each other all on the past sides but you just agreed with my perception saying "better than most" lol

He did have to sacrifice his spine, since he had no choice but to do so.
I don't give a shit if the MC is forced to bend over backwards, what irks me is when the foil character to the MC, or in this case several, simply do not adhere to the same rules.
Zoey is easily the most egregious case as she's yet to apologize for what she said which was some pretty gnarly shit for someone in MC's shoes, Fiona a close second since she has yet to apologize for literally punching the MC in the face.

Zoey has something the MC wants (her participation) while she doesnt need anything short term from him, is just logical that he has to make the first step as time is somewhat ticking for him. Shes just a bit overemotional girly and lacks life experience and was totally overwhelmed and out of her element, shes young, sue her yeez.

Youre just a snowflake, Zoey will apoligize at some point obviously, if youre feelings are too hurt, dont go for her or whatever. You dont have to like her, i dont care, but to claim her being a bad character which keeps people from being interested in the avn is just rubbish. Lots of people like her, you dont, get over it.

I'm not sure how or why you're trying to somehow infer any sort of deep psychological meaning that doesn't even exist to begin with.

Sure buddy.

The start and the end of the argument has always been that the MC, while being a little bitch, apologized for his actions albeit mostly out of necessity, and he's shown to be a rational character or atleast becoming more rational.
The vast majority of the LI's, on the other hand, has not done so and has come off as more than irrational, which is just a poor way to introduce characters that people are supposed to be attracted/interested in. It isn't any deeper than that buddy.

The MC is not rational at all, what the fuck? Did you not noticed his anger issues and depression? That he started as total fuckup? If you consider his actions perfectly rational i can see where youre problems with the perception of the girls are coming from lol

In which scene did the MC have to behave like a little bitch?

The are all (okay desiree not this much) flawed, including the MC.