Javel

New Member
May 17, 2017
3
7
We’re sharing a digital file. It’s zeros and ones. You aren’t stealing anything.

Consider contributing to the patreon if you enjoy it, though.
You could use this argument when talking about money, how well do you think that would go?

This is a rhetorical question to point out your short-sightness, don't answer.
 
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DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
829
879
FATA27

That is a very weak argument.

You could argue that your bank account information is stored as 0s and 1s, as a digital file, on a bank's servers. Would it be stealing if someone took numerical data from it and transferred it to another account? I think you would argue that it is stealing.

So, don't try to justify it. Piracy is piracy. Each of us do it for different reasons, but at the end of the day it is still piracy.

=====

However, I do see it as highway robbery to charge for a product that isn't even close to being finished. It would be different if it was a one-time fee, to get Early Access, like any game on Steam or GOG. But when a title is asking for literally more money per month than a Game Subscription or more than AAA, even with microtransactions, then I have less issue with pirating it. Maybe at some point I'll drop a single month's amount on it, to assuage possible guilt at some point, but right now, I pirate things that are incomplete products.
 

Kiiryu

Newbie
Nov 24, 2019
36
23
If the game will be 15-20 bucks when it's released, then let people pay 20 bucks to get permanent updates. If it's gonna be 60, then charge 60. The notion of paying 25 PER MONTH for early updates of an unfinished game is flat out insulting.

Also, if a dev is making 90,000 per month they better damn well be hiring a lot of of people to make development faster. Do people not realize how much can be done in a month alone, let alone with 90,000 to spend?

Why anyone gives a shit about pirating games like this is beyond me.
 
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*POP!*

Newbie
Nov 22, 2019
93
147
25$ is for the tester role, the game itself is 10 bugs a month. Still a big fee.
What is very bold is to tell people they would hire more people when reaching 100.000. I mean, what the actual fuck. They only have 16 people in the office. WTF do they pay themselves? Game isn't even nearly done and they already fill their pockets. They should invest the money and hire more people. Hope they never make the 100k, this is just bullshit.
 

DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
829
879
To be fair, they probably are investing the money, in case of a rainy day. Such as if they were to royally piss off their current Patreons, and suddenly find themselves only earning 40k a month, and yet still have to keep paying staff.

Also more staff doesn't mean higher productivity. More staff means you need more coordination, communication, and uniform development standards. For example: Take Elder Scrolls: Morrowind, a game that most feel is one of the best games in existence. Then take Fallout 76, deadpanned as a piece of shit. Same developer, but when they made Fallout 76, they had roughly 4x the staff as they did with Morrowind.

So, the lesson is, grow the team at a rate that is beneficial for the development team.
 
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MrCrazy123

Active Member
Feb 6, 2019
552
908
What? Did you just hear the number 100k and think that sounds like some huge amount of money per month to run a company off of?

Let's do some quick math right?

First, the 100k from patreon isn't tax free. That shit is income and must be taxed as income. Since the office is in germany let's assume they pay tax there. The income tax in germany for an individual (which probably differs from a company but idk for sure so let's assume individual which is probably lower than a company's tax) works on a sliding scale starting at 9408 euro and caps out at 57,051 euro at 42% which is 63,000 USD. That means on every dollar over 63k they pay 42% in tax and they lose some amount under 63k to tax. I'm going to estimate here because I don't know how to find Germany's equivalent of a schedule E. They're definitely paying 42% of 37k which is 15,540 plus the amount of tax up to that 63k which let's be generous and say it's only 20% WHICH IS DEFINITELY LESS than it really is. So thats 15,540+(.2*63k). That is 28,000 dollars gone in income tax before the company even touches it.

We know they have an office in Berlin. I don't know if all 16 people are working out of the office but let's assume at least 10 are. That office isn't free, it's going to cost some amount of money in rent and utilities and taxes and shit to run.

My office costs about 3k a month to run and it's in a rural location and only big enough for 3-4 people at once. So let's estimate 15k for the office. It could be alot higher but I doubt it's all that much lower. That leaves 57k to pay staff.

Not everybody is going to make the same amount but we can pretty easily find out the average pay is 57/16=3.5k per month, which by the way is AGAIN subject to income tax because the government wants their bite of the pie. Thats an average salary of about 42,000 per year, or 21 bucks an hour. That means some of the senior staff are going to be making more and some of the junior staff less but that seems pretty fucking fair to me.

And we didn't even account for business expenses like licensing software.

Look, I pirated their game and I don't pay for their patreon because I can't afford to and/or don't want to (sorry devs) but let's not try to justify it with dumb shit k?
 

malucobee

Newbie
Jan 1, 2020
49
35
For those that use VR, the VR is blurry because the devs lowered the pixel decency way down for performance. I am going to try and see if there is a way to increase it myself and see if that helps at all, but I am not sure how to do that. If anyone one else knows how to do that, please tell me if the game still runs okay for you.
any news?
 

Pusspuss

Member
Feb 18, 2018
417
614
any news?
Nope... I can't figure out how to change it. All I know is that the pixel density was turned down, according to the developer I talked to about it. I also asked if they could turn it up in the next build, and all they said to me was, "We’ll see." They said they had to turn it down to get better performance, but it ran well on my PC before the change and I'm running a GTX 1080. I wish they would at least give us the option to make adjustments ourselves for that stuff.

I get that VR is a small crowd right now so they don’t really care, but it's a growing crowd, and I know a lot of us support the project just for the VR. It would be worth it for them to at least have a VR viewing experience built into a game. I don’t think the whole game needs to be played in VR because the game is not being built with that in mind, and it doesn’t need to be. But having the option to pop in to view scenes in VR makes for a really nice experience. It just really sucks to see they are moving away from the VR option...
 

-Hellfire-

Member
Jun 28, 2017
467
438
If they added Basic Playable VR support i'd surely start support them..since i would always play Wild Life in VR lol.

I'ts just mindblowing in VR.
 

malucobee

Newbie
Jan 1, 2020
49
35
i have only been interested in this for VR. Alyx has changed the game and once it wins Game of the year hopefully everyone will see that VR games are no longer just novelties
 

Pusspuss

Member
Feb 18, 2018
417
614
i have only been interested in this for VR. Alyx has changed the game and once it wins Game of the year hopefully everyone will see that VR games are no longer just novelties
Yeah, VR users have doubled since Alyx! VR is just an amazing way to experience games. Especially adult games, which there are hardly any right now. And the ones we do have, only like 5% of them are good.

I just really wish the Wild Life team would give the VR side a little more love... Not a lot, just a little.
 

marmaduke

Active Member
Dec 23, 2017
502
709
What people here always seem to forget, or just more of the same ill informed opinions arrive with new users, is that they dont charge you 10$ a month for their finished product. It is not a sales agreement. Its a support pledge for a running production, which is a completely different thing. You arent entitled to product support, or a refund, you cant hold them accountable for missing dates. You pledge on patreon to make this game development possible and they reward you with work in progress versions as they go. Thats all there is to it.
If everyone were like you, thinking not paying because the game isnt finished justifies pirating it here and on top of that talk shit and insult the devs then the game wouldnt even exist at all. So turn your brains on again and have a little gratitude that someone else out there is actually paying them so they can do this.
 

DDoS_V4

Member
Jul 16, 2017
164
441
i have only been interested in this for VR. Alyx has changed the game and once it wins Game of the year hopefully everyone will see that VR games are no longer just novelties
VR is expensive my friend.. If I were to purchase it.. I'll have to spend my eight month salary on it.

cost is the issue for many.. if VR start costing like a mid-range GPU then and only then it will get wide acceptance
 
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Vincenza

Member
Jul 24, 2019
139
62
What people here always seem to forget, or just more of the same ill informed opinions arrive with new users, is that they dont charge you 10$ a month for their finished product. It is not a sales agreement. Its a support pledge for a running production, which is a completely different thing. You arent entitled to product support, or a refund, you cant hold them accountable for missing dates. You pledge on patreon to make this game development possible and they reward you with work in progress versions as they go. Thats all there is to it.
If everyone were like you, thinking not paying because the game isnt finished justifies pirating it here and on top of that talk shit and insult the devs then the game wouldnt even exist at all. So turn your brains on again and have a little gratitude that someone else out there is actually paying them so they can do this.
in a way you're right. the developers could also put the game on steam. as early access. then everyone would buy it voluntarily! patreon is not a bad thing. but when i see how many people just try to enrich themselves with patreon and still hardly manage to achieve anything i could puke. i have tried this 'game' which is not a game and deleted it afterwards. this is not a game, this is a collection of animations at most. it makes a big difference if you pay 5 or 10 or 20 euro per month or once 30 or 50 on steam!!! but what i doubt is that this game will make it on steam.

Translated with
 

trollfucker69

New Member
Apr 25, 2020
4
0
I never said its fine, I said we accepted the fact that people do it. beeing fine and accepting the reality but dealing with it the best way are two different pair of shoes ^^"

so we try to see you guys here as part of our community to a point
so how do we have to understand "accept"? does that mean your not gonna sue anyone for it? again that seems very odd from a developers perspective. why wouldnt you just realease an official free version of the game then?
 
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malucobee

Newbie
Jan 1, 2020
49
35
VR is expensive my friend.. If I were to purchase it.. I'll have to spend my eight month salary on it.

cost is the issue for many.. if VR start costing like a mid-range GPU then and only then it will get wide acceptance
rift S $399 new or rift $299 referb maybe time for a new job then???
 
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