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BFC 78

Member
Jan 23, 2022
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VictorSeven I just finish with the update, and I like it I love it, I want some more of it :love:
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I am so looking forward to the next update
 

MAD6999

Member
Nov 21, 2021
278
537
I played this a long time ago and loved it at first, but the part about making Chiara and Ethel girlfriends ruined the game for me. Ethel was my favorite character and you could see that she was interested in the mc and out of nowhere they force you to pair her up with another girl and the worst thing is that Chiara seems to want to have relationships with more girls from the supposed harem, not to mention that they also force you to have a relationship with lesbian elves. Anyway, I'm not going to throw hate, you are the one who develops this and you can do whatever you want with your game. I just wanted to ask if at some point we will have the option of not helping Chiara form a relationship with Ethel or rejecting the girls we don't like like the lesbian elves. Just to know whether to continue playing or not and since I've seen that we don't I'm the only one who doesn't like the way this implementation of lesbian content
 

JenMistress

Engaged Member
Oct 1, 2019
2,895
3,376
Ah, so to unlock the Easter Egg of the hidden character, you did similar to what Project Myriam did, only luckily I didn't have to hit it 100 times to get the Easter Egg. ;)
 

VictorSeven

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2019
609
2,554
I played this a long time ago and loved it at first, but the part about making Chiara and Ethel girlfriends ruined the game for me. Ethel was my favorite character and you could see that she was interested in the mc and out of nowhere they force you to pair her up with another girl and the worst thing is that Chiara seems to want to have relationships with more girls from the supposed harem, not to mention that they also force you to have a relationship with lesbian elves. Anyway, I'm not going to throw hate, you are the one who develops this and you can do whatever you want with your game. I just wanted to ask if at some point we will have the option of not helping Chiara form a relationship with Ethel or rejecting the girls we don't like like the lesbian elves. Just to know whether to continue playing or not and since I've seen that we don't I'm the only one who doesn't like the way this implementation of lesbian content
Right, this is a common complaint, and I'm of the opinion that this should have been made a choice rather than just written in the way it was. In the beginning, Eshtel was a very unpopular character, so I didn't think there would be much impact if I made her polyamorous. Turns out, a LOT of people wanted a one-on-one relationship with Eshtel, or at least the option, so I'm working on a bit of rewriting to make that happen. The poly branch will still be there; you'll just be offered a CHOICE instead of being forced to wingman. That's the dream, at least.

This does what so many games do, implements a useless linear sandbox.

Sad to see.
The main request I got from Season 1 was that players wanted more things to click. More choices to make. To be able to avoid intimacy with the characters they didn't like and to spend more time with the characters they DO like.

It took me quite a bit of time and a LOT of help from other coders just to implement this. Sadly, I am an author first and a coder second. I've only really been coding for like 2 years now so yeah, things are gonna be linear. Branching storylines are hell to keep track of, and each branch doubles the work done per character. Though I hope to implement at least one critical decision per character that will change their stories, do understand that there are 49 planned Love Interests for this game, and if I put a branch into each of those, that's 98 story branches I have to write. Just off of ONE decision per story.

Unlike most games that have 4 or 5 love interests with 5 to 10 critical decisions per LI, this story focuses on the variety of the characters, and moving along more linear stories for each of them. Variety was prioritized over control. You find out what the big issue in the girl's life is, and you decide whether or not you're going to follow their story and help them out with it.

I'm curious as to what you would have done different. For a lot of people, even MENTIONING the word "sandbox" started a wildfire, and I had to run damage control assuring people that it was NOT turning into a sandbox game and that I was simply giving the player control of where in the main story they wanted to insert their one on one time with the girls they liked, in order to give it slightly more of a "game" feel than a "book" feel.
 

Mommysbuttslut

Forum Fanatic
Feb 19, 2021
4,114
10,021
The main request I got from Season 1 was that players wanted more things to click. More choices to make. To be able to avoid intimacy with the characters they didn't like and to spend more time with the characters they DO like.

It took me quite a bit of time and a LOT of help from other coders just to implement this. Sadly, I am an author first and a coder second. I've only really been coding for like 2 years now so yeah, things are gonna be linear. Branching storylines are hell to keep track of, and each branch doubles the work done per character. Though I hope to implement at least one critical decision per character that will change their stories, do understand that there are 49 planned Love Interests for this game, and if I put a branch into each of those, that's 98 story branches I have to write. Just off of ONE decision per story.

Unlike most games that have 4 or 5 love interests with 5 to 10 critical decisions per LI, this story focuses on the variety of the characters, and moving along more linear stories for each of them. Variety was prioritized over control. You find out what the big issue in the girl's life is, and you decide whether or not you're going to follow their story and help them out with it.

I'm curious as to what you would have done different. For a lot of people, even MENTIONING the word "sandbox" started a wildfire, and I had to run damage control assuring people that it was NOT turning into a sandbox game and that I was simply giving the player control of where in the main story they wanted to insert their one on one time with the girls they liked, in order to give it slightly more of a "game" feel than a "book" feel.
Tbh you probably could've done it a lot easier from dialogue choices, for example MC thinking to himself "Should I go hang out with Ruka? I can probably find her at the pool" and then a simple yes/no choice. Would effectively do the same thing as the sandbox but without it being a sandbox.
Could also have done something like this
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Where after you choose a girl it'd set a flag so the choice would disappear when you got back to the selection and when you played everything you wanted you could just click on a continue choice. Doesn't really matter, you've done it already and I'm not going to complain. The system really isn't problematic, just a little more involved than I personally prefer.
I will suggest a different graphic for if you've played through all the sandbox content though. Atm you have to click through until you get the little piece of dialogue that says the content is finished, which made me almost miss the one girl who had 2 events, can't remember who it was off the top of my head. Maybe have a little green outline on the girls button if there's an event and a red outline if there isn't, would just make it a lot more intuitive for the player.
Right, this is a common complaint, and I'm of the opinion that this should have been made a choice rather than just written in the way it was. In the beginning, Eshtel was a very unpopular character, so I didn't think there would be much impact if I made her polyamorous. Turns out, a LOT of people wanted a one-on-one relationship with Eshtel, or at least the option, so I'm working on a bit of rewriting to make that happen. The poly branch will still be there; you'll just be offered a CHOICE instead of being forced to wingman. That's the dream, at least.
Oh boy, I'd gone through the whole 5 stages straight to acceptance over that one.... or maybe I just stopped caring after Chiara started being cool. Gonna have to play through both options here though, I didn't really have a problem with the whole poly dynamic but I'm selfish, I want MC to be first even if it does cut out the Eshtel x Chiara/poly path with her doing that. Probably gonna take advantage of that choice, especially given how excited Eshtel was when she thought MC was confessing to her, felt like a total rat when I played through that bit. Kinda glad to hear, even as a fan of having lesbians in the harem.
 

VictorSeven

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2019
609
2,554
Could also have done something like this
In theory, this is a great idea, but I have 49 planned characters, as I said. Much easier to just have a panel of buttons of their faces, and a choice to go back to the main story.
set a flag so the choice would disappear when you got back to the selection
I'm working on a solution to this, such as maybe greying it out and making the button insensitive once you've played all there is to play. I'd have to do some finagling with some variables, but I think I know how it might be done. I just have to force the system to check what scenes you've seen already and compare it to a Maximum Scenes variable, I think, and if the two are equal, grey the button out. Or something.

In response to the MC being a "whining wussy..." is it so hard to believe that the main character might have his own story arc? I didn't write a ThunderChad McCockMagnet like most games. Aurum is... average looking, has some baggage, and has a very bad habit of fawning as a survival mechanism. He puts others before himself way too much, to the point of self-neglect, which is what Galka is trying to hammer into him. He needs to learn to take off the cape and care about himself first, because if he can't maintain himself, he's trying to pour from an empty cup when trying to help others. Aurum, like the rest of the characters, follows a story path in which he has to learn things and evolve over time. One of the biggest things he needs to do in the story is grow a bit of a backbone and learn to say no when the prospect of helping someone will end up being harmful to him. Case in point, Cecilia. He also needs to learn to take INITIATIVE, as he starts of pretty passive, but he'll have to learn that he's not gonna get what he wants by waiting for everyone to come to him. He has to learn to be proactive and put in effort.

A lot of this is damage from his relationship with Ashley. I didn't want to spend a ton of time in the Memories phase, detailing the way she treated him, but to explain, it was nearly the perfect Narcissist + Stockholm Syndrome pairing, which made it very easy for her to lead him around with a carrot on a stick, so to say. Having finally gotten out of that, a big fear for Aurum in particular is getting attached to someone, because that means giving them the power to control and destroy him again. That's why he seems so standoffish.

So yeah, Aurum is SUPPOSED to come off a little browbeaten and weak in the beginning. He's not the Perfect Urban Prince Charming that most MCs are supposed to be, but he's also not the Born Horrifically Ugly And Unfortunate trope like games like Lewd Town Adventure. I wanted a kind of... average joe middle ground with a few quirks and a bit of emotional depth, but with several flaws he's gonna have to learn how to manage. Boy has baggage, and the story is more about managing and working through that baggage while also helping other people with theirs, and forming bonds and feel-good emotional and intimate connections with both similarly damaged people and more reasonably healthy people. It's far less of your typical fap fest type of game.

I feel like I may need to rewrite my game descriptions, because people keep coming in here with their ideas of what the game should have been, when I THOUGHT I clearly stated what the games actually were, which were mostly linear stories. Any suggestions are welcome. How would y'all suggest I try to prevent this from happening?
 

Jnx

Active Member
Jun 6, 2017
657
3,416
The main request I got from Season 1 was that players wanted more things to click. More choices to make. To be able to avoid intimacy with the characters they didn't like and to spend more time with the characters they DO like.

It took me quite a bit of time and a LOT of help from other coders just to implement this. Sadly, I am an author first and a coder second. I've only really been coding for like 2 years now so yeah, things are gonna be linear. Branching storylines are hell to keep track of, and each branch doubles the work done per character. Though I hope to implement at least one critical decision per character that will change their stories, do understand that there are 49 planned Love Interests for this game, and if I put a branch into each of those, that's 98 story branches I have to write. Just off of ONE decision per story.

Unlike most games that have 4 or 5 love interests with 5 to 10 critical decisions per LI, this story focuses on the variety of the characters, and moving along more linear stories for each of them. Variety was prioritized over control. You find out what the big issue in the girl's life is, and you decide whether or not you're going to follow their story and help them out with it.

I'm curious as to what you would have done different. For a lot of people, even MENTIONING the word "sandbox" started a wildfire, and I had to run damage control assuring people that it was NOT turning into a sandbox game and that I was simply giving the player control of where in the main story they wanted to insert their one on one time with the girls they liked, in order to give it slightly more of a "game" feel than a "book" feel.
My issue with sandbox is generally not present in what you have, ie the "Skip time to meet some arbitrary time requirement to see the next scene. And grind arbitrary stat for the same reason." Which is fine, unless that gets added. But sandboxes just feel empty, unless there's stuff to do. Yours has a bunch of areas that look like buttons, all unclickable, and again, not a lot to do. And seeing as none of the events are repeatable, a linear VN would be fine. Giving more dialogue options that don't affect stats but add dialogue flavor, a path tracker and/or maybe a "Who do I want to see" screen/menu would be simpler. Not an empty map that you can't use for some odd reason.

This is as said by someone that has made a useless mostly linear sandbox on this site lol(not by choice). And this is more coming from someone who generally likes ALL the LI's you've made. I will say, 49 planned is ridiculous and I won't be surprised if you quit before you get to 20. Not a rude thing, just a sanity thing.

So I would say add visual flair and a bit of interactivity and dump the world map thing. Maybe a scene where MC wakes up/gets off work and looks at his phone with a "Who should I see?" prompt would be fine, it's less sandbox more choose your own adventure. Though that is one of my complaints is seeing MC's ENTIRE routine EVERY time, like thanks, I really needed to see him wash his dumb face.

And if you need/want help I have no issue helping. I've done it quite a few times now, and the renpy discord is active all the time as well.
 

Mommysbuttslut

Forum Fanatic
Feb 19, 2021
4,114
10,021
In response to the MC being a "whining wussy..." is it so hard to believe that the main character might have his own story arc?
I don't believe I've called him that, or any close derivative to it once in this thread, unless you're responding to someone else there. I think at times he can be a little frustrating but overall he's a pretty decent character tbh.

I think the latest storytelling is doing a really good job of showcasing how Ashley (was that Cecilia's sister's name? I'm horrible with names) is the real villain in his story. Even if Cecilia was the one who fucked the MC up and chased him down time and time again the latest scene with her really brings to question whether or not that was actually her decision or whether her psycho sister practically made her do it. Probably also sabotaged his relationship with Cecilia after he broke up with her and took Cecilia in. Cecilia was already a top 3 girl for me because I like yandere but this adds so much depth to her and makes her so much more loveable. Must protect.
 

sigvar

Member
Sep 5, 2021
263
403
Reveals don't happen in the beginning. It's a story. It's called a twist, my guy. Those require buildup. Foreshadowing. That being said, I will probably add a "do you want spoilers" prompt when meeting her for the first time as I did with Cecilia, since so many people are SO butthurt over it.
Well, I just got to the point where you find out river is not a girl. I am wondering what the comment means:
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Does this mean that we will not be able to opt out of sexual content with River later on anyway?

It seems that choosing the friend option after this you tell River:
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Seems to me we cannot avoid having River as a LI, period.
 
Last edited:

VictorSeven

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2019
609
2,554
My issue with sandbox is generally not present in what you have, ie the "Skip time to meet some arbitrary time requirement to see the next scene. And grind arbitrary stat for the same reason." Which is fine, unless that gets added. But sandboxes just feel empty, unless there's stuff to do. Yours has a bunch of areas that look like buttons, all unclickable, and again, not a lot to do. And seeing as none of the events are repeatable, a linear VN would be fine. Giving more dialogue options that don't affect stats but add dialogue flavor, a path tracker and/or maybe a "Who do I want to see" screen/menu would be simpler. Not an empty map that you can't use for some odd reason.

This is as said by someone that has made a useless mostly linear sandbox on this site lol(not by choice). And this is more coming from someone who generally likes ALL the LI's you've made. I will say, 49 planned is ridiculous and I won't be surprised if you quit before you get to 20. Not a rude thing, just a sanity thing.

So I would say add visual flair and a bit of interactivity and dump the world map thing. Maybe a scene where MC wakes up/gets off work and looks at his phone with a "Who should I see?" prompt would be fine, it's less sandbox more choose your own adventure. Though that is one of my complaints is seeing MC's ENTIRE routine EVERY time, like thanks, I really needed to see him wash his dumb face.

And if you need/want help I have no issue helping. I've done it quite a few times now, and the renpy discord is active all the time as well.
One thing people asked for was a sort of affection tracker, and I have a skeleton built for it. It's just not fully functional. It's also a bit redundant, as it'll only really display the number of scenes you've seen for the character in question.

Also, most people liked seeing the map and what the area looks like. Originally, it was planned to be a typical sandbox, but my main coder left and I had to teach myself Ren'py from scratch. So the map just became a bit of lore. Most people do not want this game to be a true sandbox, but they also want to be able to avoid the characters they don't like rather than having me systematically work each romance into the main story like I was going to, and like I did in Season 1. So this was my best solution. Definitely interested in seeing what your ideas look like if the community judges it to be an improvement.
I don't believe I've called him that, or any close derivative to it once in this thread, unless you're responding to someone else there. I think at times he can be a little frustrating but overall he's a pretty decent character tbh.

I think the latest storytelling is doing a really good job of showcasing how Ashley (was that Cecilia's sister's name? I'm horrible with names) is the real villain in his story. Even if Cecilia was the one who fucked the MC up and chased him down time and time again the latest scene with her really brings to question whether or not that was actually her decision or whether her psycho sister practically made her do it. Probably also sabotaged his relationship with Cecilia after he broke up with her and took Cecilia in. Cecilia was already a top 3 girl for me because I like yandere but this adds so much depth to her and makes her so much more loveable. Must protect.
Oh I was absolutely responding to someone else, he who opted "not to continue our conversation" lol. And I really appreciate your kind words. I know I rely way too much on outside stimulus to generate motivation, but that's how my brain chemicals be and seeing what people enjoy about a story kinda fuels me.
Well, I just got to the point where you find out river is not a girl. I am wondering what the comment means:
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Does this mean that we will not be able to opt out of sexual content with River later on anyway?

It seems that choosing the friend option after this you tell River:
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Seems to me we cannot avoid having River as a LI, period.
I do need to change that line. That was before I had the idea to implement the Free Time system, and you absolutely WILL be able to avoid romance with any character once I have it done correctly. You will still be friends and may have a conversation or two in the main story, as they might be required to, say, discover Willy's location or something serious like that which affects a good number of the characters. But I don't plan for there to be more than light flirting from most of the LIs outside of their side story scenes.

The other thing I was considering was requiring the player to hang out with specific characters up to certain points to unlock more of the main story, but I see now that I would have to be VERY careful with that and that it may perhaps be a bad idea. Not forcing anything romantic, just making sure a specific conversation between you and say, Galka, happens because the next scene in the main story would reference something said in that conversation. But again, I'm already seeing issues with this based on how vehemently people want to avoid certain characters, and I may have to change that approach.

All of this feedback is EXTREMELY helpful, by the way. I'm writing my story, my way, but you as the community are helping me smooth the edges and make it into something that more people will enjoy.
 

sk1122

Member
Aug 13, 2020
176
168
But again, I'm already seeing issues with this based on how vehemently people want to avoid certain characters, and I may have to change that approach.
Life won't always let you easily avoid all of those coworkers or customers that you'd rather not see or deal with, so imo no reason the game should always let you have that choice.
But both in life and game, we should always be able to opt out of waking up beside them or having their tongue in our mouth.

And seeing all the complains about it:
Nobody guarantees that a EshtelxChiara match (or a later triangle) will easily work out, and that might hang on as little a thing as Aurum NOT jumping in to fix their every troublespot.
 
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Jnx

Active Member
Jun 6, 2017
657
3,416
One thing people asked for was a sort of affection tracker, and I have a skeleton built for it. It's just not fully functional. It's also a bit redundant, as it'll only really display the number of scenes you've seen for the character in question.

Also, most people liked seeing the map and what the area looks like. Originally, it was planned to be a typical sandbox, but my main coder left and I had to teach myself Ren'py from scratch. So the map just became a bit of lore. Most people do not want this game to be a true sandbox, but they also want to be able to avoid the characters they don't like rather than having me systematically work each romance into the main story like I was going to, and like I did in Season 1. So this was my best solution. Definitely interested in seeing what your ideas look like if the community judges it to be an improvement.
The affection tracker and most stuff can be redundant, most people just like confirmation on what they're doing. Or X/Y scene viewed thing. But part of my intrigue WAS "Oh man, how's he gonna deal with the LIs interacting/finding out about other girls." So if what you said means that's not gonna be a thing, I'm a little sad. A lot of what takes me out of these games is MC telling every girl he loves and only loves her, then going next door, screwing the neighbor and doing the same.

Either way, I was pleasantly surprised by your game, in this shovelware apocalypse, and just because I bitch and moan about sandboxes, (and when I get around to reviewing this, loli/trap baiting) I do like what you have done so far. Keep up the good work.
 

kep31

Newbie
Sep 11, 2020
21
71
Reading these comments i am starting to understand why most creators on this site refrain from interaction with people here. Maybe consider not getting too interactive with your playerbase so much, especially if you care/feel attachment to your work, as you mentioned before.

One thing i learned working for people over the years is, 90% of people that are satisfied with your work, you wont hear from again. However, 90% of those that are dissatisfied, for one reason or another, will get back to you. Just keep that in mind if you get burned out.
Also consider this when making decisions based on peoples responses here (maybe give optional questionnaires in the game itself after finishing chapter?).
 

VictorSeven

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2019
609
2,554
Nobody guarantees that a EshtelxChiara match (or a later triangle) will easily work out, and that might hang on as little a thing as Aurum NOT jumping in to fix their every troublespot.
So, funny you should mention that. In my original storyline, Chiara was going to find out from Eshtel that Eshtel had a huge thing for you, and that scene where she thought the bracelet was from you was going to have a huge significance. Chiara was gonna chew you out for not considering Eshtel's feelings. Later, there were going to be some conflicts, just as there are in real life, and this would end with Chiara and Eshtel agreeing that friendship was their best connection. From there, after a bit of time had passed, Chiara would bring up Eshtel's admission again, and ask if you wanted her to wingman for you. Aurum was going to be concerned, citing the Bro Code rule "never date a friend's ex," but Chiara would remind him of what she told him earlier, that jealousy was a horrible trait and she'd rather see two of her close friends happy.

That was the ORIGINAL story idea before the Poly idea happened. However, I don't think our current playerbase would like the idea of feeling like they'd broken up a relationship just to muscle in on it themselves, and I personally feel like continuing on that way would have been a horrid idea. The Poly idea was the second iteration of the story. The chewing out about not considering Eshtel's feelings was still going to happen, but it would be explained that Chiara was fine with sharing Eshtel as long as she wasn't forced to do sexual things herself.

Now, in its third iteration, what I envision is this: taking the bracelet storyline out of S1 and putting that in the Side Stories. After a certain amount of hanging out with both girls, offering the choice to pursue the Poly storyline with both of them (which will be Chiara's storyline, essentially) and/or the Solo storyline, which is just you and Eshtel. Choose Chiara's side, and you wingman for her just as you did originally. Choose Eshtel's side, Chiara remains friendly to both of you.

Normally, I wouldn't budge on something like this. That's the case in River's story, where everyone keeps asking me if they can control whether or not she goes through the ceremony and what state her body stays in. I said no. This is what the character wants. You're not here to control her, you're here to help her or leave her alone. But I began this game with the philosophy, "If you can see her, you can date her." While that's not quite true in the literal sense (you can't date the two hoes that littered in front of you in the intro), keeping a Love Interest like Eshtel away from the playerbase turned out to be a terrible idea, and I'm absolutely walking that back.

I just have to come up with a good, solid, emotive story for her questline, that's all. And with the elven kingdoms in disarray because of the Marbog, that should be fairly easy.
 

VictorSeven

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2019
609
2,554
The affection tracker and most stuff can be redundant, most people just like confirmation on what they're doing. Or X/Y scene viewed thing. But part of my intrigue WAS "Oh man, how's he gonna deal with the LIs interacting/finding out about other girls." So if what you said means that's not gonna be a thing, I'm a little sad. A lot of what takes me out of these games is MC telling every girl he loves and only loves her, then going next door, screwing the neighbor and doing the same.

Either way, I was pleasantly surprised by your game, in this shovelware apocalypse, and just because I bitch and moan about sandboxes, (and when I get around to reviewing this, loli/trap baiting) I do like what you have done so far. Keep up the good work.
So, I am VERY not a fan of the whole "keeping it a secret/cheating" style dynamic in games like that. So what I did was try to make it fairly clear, albeit subtly that all of the girls are aware of what you're doing and are more or less okay with it. Does it take the "intrigue" out of it for some people? Sure. But at least I'm free of that scummy, cheating feeling. I'm not gonna spend all this time writing these characters just to damage them that way.
Reading these comments i am starting to understand why most creators on this site refrain from interaction with people here. Maybe consider not getting too interactive with your playerbase so much, especially if you care/feel attachment to your work, as you mentioned before.

One thing i learned working for people over the years is, 90% of people that are satisfied with your work, you wont hear from again. However, 90% of those that are dissatisfied, for one reason or another, will get back to you. Just keep that in mind if you get burned out.
Also consider this when making decisions based on peoples responses here (maybe give optional questionnaires in the game itself after finishing chapter?).
Aye, the entire first game has a Google Form with over 2k responses. That's where most of my citing of "common requests" comes from. Lots of people said there was something wrong with Rukah's face. I fixed her skin tone and texture, and she no longer looks like a plastic Army Man. A lot of people had that request about River. A TON of people want more Wither, and to see her smile for once. A lot of people are bummed about not having access to Eshtel. It's feedback like this that really helps me sculpt the experience into both something that stays in line with my vision for the story, but also something that isn't disappointing people by robbing them of the character they liked most.
 
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