Would you be willing to support a Dev who releases on a Tri-monthy/Bi-monthly schedule instead of Monthly?

frap

Active Member
Oct 17, 2018
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That doesnt remove that money has a value. I dont have a problem with donations, I have a problem with paying way too much for a product ... <snip>

... the longer they can prolong the process, the more they get paid, and we still dont get more than "ordered"... <snip>
Umm, that's not what patronage is.

You aren't paying for a product! You are helping someone achieve their dream!
^^^ THIS

There is a serious disconnect for a lot of people about what "patronage" means. I blame it on schools not teaching history very well.

Patrons of the arts provided wages for artists so they could focus on making art, rather than making a living.

Those patrons were not "buying a product" - they were financing an artist. Yes, many patrons were gifted art by their supported artist (often a portrait) - but they weren't supporting those artists for years just to get a piece of art. They were supporting them because they thought the artist was creating something of value for society.

That's what patronage is about. If you don't want to support an artist/writer/game dev... don't. It's not the end of the world. If you feel like you'd like to pay for a completed game, contact the dev and say "Hey, I really don't like the monthly pay scheme of Patreon, can I pay you in a lump sum of what I think your game is worth?" I expect many will be happy to get it.

For an example of what modern patronage looks like, go to any museum. You'll see a list of top donors and patrons somewhere. The donors tend to do one-off, big money donations, while the patrons pay a set amount every month/quarter/year to help the museum cover expenses.
 

I'm Not Thea Lundgren!

AKA: TotesNotThea
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Jun 21, 2017
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That's what patronage is about. If you don't want to support an artist/writer/game dev... don't. It's not the end of the world. If you feel like you'd like to pay for a completed game, contact the dev and say "Hey, I really don't like the monthly pay scheme of Patreon, can I pay you in a lump sum of what I think your game is worth?" I expect many will be happy to get it.
Thank you for the excellent example! :)
This last part is what Itch.io is all about, you can go and pay the dev an amount for a game, then that game is yours as is at the time you paid for it, if the dev updates the games, aces! You get a new version of the game.
 
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Adabelitoo

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Jun 24, 2018
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On top of that, its the worst possible way to pay someone... the longer they can prolong the process, the more they get paid, and we still dont get more than "ordered" Its like telling a company, we want this bridge build, youll get paid as long as you are building on it. No restrictions, its entirely up to your morals and ethics. ... Yeah thats gonna get abused, every single time. Call it monthly "donations" all you want, its still the same principle.
I see two big differences here:

1) You can't cross the bridge until it's over, but it isn't like you will only play the game once it's over.

2) Here, even if you stop paying for the bridge, someone will keep building it anyway and you will be able to cross it anyway.
 

Oshitari Azumi

Who's the strongest Nobbu?!
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May 23, 2017
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I don't know if this is just me, but I don't really care about how much I spend to support someone or if it's bi-monthly or tri-monthly or whatever. What matters to me is that they're transparent about the fact that "Hey guys, I'll be uploading bi-monthly so your support will go towards that." or whatever. The only devs that I get really ticked off with are devs who go silent for extended periods of time without saying anything. With most of the people that I follow and support, they usually have a post before or maybe during their long hiatus explaining their updates or why there won't be an update or why the update is taking longer than usual. Otherwise, I'd be okay with support a dev who remains transparent with their update schedule and content, even if they have to change it.
 
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Huitieme

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That doesnt remove that money has a value. I dont have a problem with donations, I have a problem with paying way too much for a product that comparatively to what you will get for the same amount anywhere else, doesnt match up. So I dont touch it. Thus monthly donations without a fixed schedule so you know what youre in for, is a clear no go.

On top of that, its the worst possible way to pay someone... the longer they can prolong the process, the more they get paid, and we still dont get more than "ordered" Its like telling a company, we want this bridge build, youll get paid as long as you are building on it. No restrictions, its entirely up to your morals and ethics. ... Yeah thats gonna get abused, every single time. Call it monthly "donations" all you want, its still the same principle.
While that's true, I think it's up to patrons themselves to sort the wheat from the chaff. You see a creator shamelessly milking their supporters? Stop supporting him. If everyone would do this instead of finding excuses when clearly there is none, there would be less scammers. You see a creator that works their ass off and deserves respect? You support them (IF and only if you want to and can do it financially, of course).

That being said, the patronage thing also builds trust between creator and supporter. If you do it right, anyway. Communication, exchange, respect, all that can be reached regardless of the amount you earn on patreon (gosh, I sound like a politician). frap and Adabelitoo said it better than I could, patronage is and always will be different than buying a product.

But if I may, I'd like to expand on the subject a little. Why do so many people think that supporting a dev on Patreon (or any other platform) gives them power or a right to criticize/demand anything? I mean, we're all very pretty flowers here, but if we go by the number, I'd bet my anal virginity that the vast majority of supporters don't think like we do. They do act like they just bought a little of the creator's soul which is then their to play with. So where does lie the blame? In those creators who never went against their patrons in fear of losing them and in hope of gathering more support? In today's society where money can buy literaly anthing, such as pride, passion and ethics?
 

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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I agree to a point. One person putting their heart and soul into a game trying to make it... yes! +++

But when you see those that have been at it a while, and a deriving $20,000-$60,000 PER MONTH...

I'd say we've helped them realize that dream... and well... if you can't put out SOMETHING monthly, get some help so that you can... seed back into other's dreams, so to speak.

No offense meant to anyone.
So you want to punish creators because they get successful with their project? How dare they get over a certain amount of money... right? That could be the incentive for a creator to go full time, maybe start a small game studio, hire people to his team whatever. But not necessary what they had in mind when they started out. Some doesn't want to go down that route, they might just have it as a hobby and want to remain it to be. And that is fine, but they shouldn't get punished for it, or looked down at for it, if they reach a certain level of support.
 

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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You aren't paying for a product! You are helping someone achieve their dream!
I think it's more of a incentive to carry on with the project rather than realize their dreams though. I believe for most creators it goes a long way to upgrade hardware etc, at least to start with. Which in turn benefit their projects.
 

PJWhoopie

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May 14, 2019
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So you want to punish creators because they get successful with their project? How dare they get over a certain amount of money... right?
Please re-read what I wrote and what you posted. Where did I ever say anything about anyone being punished?


No need to get snarky. I am pro folks making money on the fruits of their labors.... but somebody making $57K per month should have some pretty regular updates to their projects......
and if they can't meet any sort of regular schedule... then hire some folks to help. or as you said
.....maybe start a small game studio, hire people to his team whatever.
 
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Flecc

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You aren't paying for a product! You are helping someone achieve their dream!
Exactly you are supporting a creator not a product (though a final product does lend it's self to you the patreon offering up more support if a viable product is achieved ) fortunately i have chosen well and only had one fall over which my common sense pulled me out of at an early stage so my hit was minimal.But i will still carry on supporting creators ,without guarantee of a product.But in the hope they will produce something
 
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Joshua Tree

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Please re-read what I wrote and what you posted. Where did I ever say anything about anyone being punished?


No need to get snarky. I am pro folks making money on the fruits of their labors.... but somebody making $57K per month should have some pretty regular updates to their projects......
and if they can't meet any sort of regular schedule... then hire some folks to help. or as you said
People have a choice in support a creator or not. I see no reason to start lay down demands on a creator based on what kind of support he/she end up get. If you have a day job, rl full with kids, wife whatever. And you make games such as this as a hobby. That is pretty much what it will remain, a hobby.

Whatever money people end up make from their projects is just a measurement of their success. If I tip the jar of some creator on Patreon I don't look at how much they make already and think they doesn't deserve more unless they start push out more content faster. I tip their jar because I liked what they done so far, and valued it.
 
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JRD

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Feb 4, 2018
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But if I may, I'd like to expand on the subject a little. Why do so many people think that supporting a dev on Patreon (or any other platform) gives them power or a right to criticize/demand anything? I mean, we're all very pretty flowers here, but if we go by the number, I'd bet my anal virginity that the vast majority of supporters don't think like we do. They do act like they just bought a little of the creator's soul which is then their to play with. So where does lie the blame? In those creators who never went against their patrons in fear of losing them and in hope of gathering more support? In today's society where money can buy literaly anthing, such as pride, passion and ethics?
You bring up an excellent point here. It's a shame that some people feel they can demand everything under the sun for the price of a cup of coffee per month (I'm talking dirt-cheap 7-11 coffee for a buck). Difficult to place blame, but there's plenty to go around.

It's sad that those people can't just choose to move on quietly, or at the very least offer constructive criticism and then move on quietly. Last-word syndrome is a real MF'er.
 
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Niteowl

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Apr 6, 2018
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But if I may, I'd like to expand on the subject a little. Why do so many people think that supporting a dev on Patreon (or any other platform) gives them power or a right to criticize/demand anything? I mean, we're all very pretty flowers here, but if we go by the number, I'd bet my anal virginity that the vast majority of supporters don't think like we do. They do act like they just bought a little of the creator's soul which is then their to play with. So where does lie the blame? In those creators who never went against their patrons in fear of losing them and in hope of gathering more support? In today's society where money can buy literaly anthing, such as pride, passion and ethics?
I don't necessarily disagree with you..... and I think I am pretty mellow about the whole thing (as long as the dev is not an obvious scammer, so I do tend to support devs that have been around for a while). Harem Hotel and Pinktea games don't update every day....but it's all good and they do produce, imo, top quality games.

Still, if a dev is able to work on games full time it's because of the support of the patrons and that entails some obligations, I would think. If I don't show up for work without notifying my boss I will, sooner or later, get fired.
If I ever develop a game I will take it seriously and do my best to put out regular updates.... and communicate with patrons if, for any reason, I have to delay an update. Anything less, imo, would be unacceptable. The moment we are getting paid good money to do a job we have to be responsible about our work...it's not just a hobby anymore, it's a job.
 

sakuyas_mmaster

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Feb 12, 2018
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but somebody making $57K per month should have some pretty regular updates to their projects
That's not how art works. Maybe there are a good chunk of people among that "somebody" 's patreons who think like you. But they are just as wrong as you are.

But i will still carry on supporting creators ,without guarantee of a product.But in the hope they will produce something
Same here. I am supporting a handful of devs. And none of them have a regular release schedule. It doesn't matter to me.
 

Huitieme

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As I'm writing this, it gets to me that this is starting to look like a huge wall of text. Just to make things clear, I'm in no way attacking you of using an aggressive tone. Quite the contrary, this is a respectful exchange of ideas :)

I don't necessarily disagree with you..... and I think I am pretty mellow about the whole thing (as long as the dev is not an obvious scammer, so I do tend to support devs that have been around for a while). Harem Hotel and Pinktea games don't update every day....but it's all good and they do produce, imo, top quality games.

Still, if a dev is able to work on games full time it's because of the support of the patrons and that entails some obligations, I would think. If I don't show up for work without notifying my boss I will, sooner or later, get fired.
If I ever develop a game I will take it seriously and do my best to put out regular updates.... and communicate with patrons if, for any reason, I have to delay an update. Anything less, imo, would be unacceptable. The moment we are getting paid good money to do a job we have to be responsible about our work...it's not just a hobby anymore, it's a job.
While that may be true, I'm not enforcing the idea that no one should be held accountable for anything ever. I was merely criticizing the unhealthy dynamics were a dev could be robbed of their own game by loud and demanding "fans". I could cite multiple examples, but the one that comes to mind is ICSTOR who, on his own admission, burned out because of the patreon polls he was making that decided the direction the game should take. Then you have patrons that straight up blackmail their devs with threats of stopping the pledges. I can't give you examples of this, tho, because I tend to stay away from this kind of toxic assholes people.

Also, although I understand your work analogy, I can't fully adhere to it. The point you're making is true, regular updates and communication go a long way to ensure that supporters keep supporting (supporter gonna sup), but to me, for the vast majority of adult games developers, this cannot be treated the same way that a regular bonna fide job would be. Remember that the creator is not, and never should be, the employee of their patrons. Also, the financial aspect differs in that you have multiple people paying you a little amount of money instead of one guy paying you the full amount. All of this has to be taken into account.

In your example, you're talking about a dev working full time on the game, but even in that case, it should be something they like to do, and not some obligation because people decided, of their own free will, to give money to the peep. I mean, I don't know if you've ever worked at a job you loathed, there is no amount of money that'll make you crap out something better than a polished turd. We're back to the original meaning of patronage: financial support provided to an artist. It would be hypocritical of me to imply that there never was anything asked in return by those wealthy investers, but in the case of Patreon, you have the reward tier system. If and when supporter decide that their money would be better used elsewhere, they should just leave.

To go back to the original question of this thread, there is a misconception on the meaning of patronage itself. But this misconception is not an actual issue, just different points of view. If you want to buy a product, you can wait for the game to be finished and pay a certain sum to grab it and if you just want the product, there are other way to get it. But if your aim is to support an artist you like, their the release schedule shouldn't matter (provided this is not a scam, of course). As an example, I'll mention youtubers that ask for teepee donations. In this case, you don't buy the videos, you don't buy the youtuber time, you don't buy anything. But by giving a few bucks every month, you participate in a support dynamics that will see you still get the product (videos) you yearn for.

One of these day, I'll learn to be concise, I swear ;)