Would You Enjoy this?

[Grand Duke]

I've recently been working on a game, specifically a Doki Doki parody game, since there aren't really any good one's out and I enjoy the series quite a bit.

I wanted to make this game stand out among the crowd and so I made the main character extremely manipulative and calculating.

I was tired of seeing games where the main character gets pushed around and is seemingly oblivious to everything that is happening around him.

He became this way from being created by a eugenics organization that attempts to create weapons of mass destruction in the form of "perfect humans."

So , I wanted to know what you would like to see in such a main character, things to avoid doing and also if it sounds like an interesting ideal in general.

 

[Sphere42]

For those who aren't familiar with the franchise: how exactly does a genetically engineered WMD with organised backing lead to porn? Is this a guro game where the mass murder can be considered a feature?

 

[Grand Duke]

For those who aren't familiar with the franchise: how exactly does a genetically engineered WMD with organised backing lead to porn? Is this a guro game where the mass murder can be considered a feature?

Yeah I guess I should explain the context better, he isn't sent there to kill everyone he's sent there as "field testing," to take over the school on his own. He's still a "project," in development and doesn't have much out-of lab experience.

Naturally, he'll use seduction or rape as one of the ways to emotionally isolate and control the girls in the school.

I don't currently plan to have guro but some of the h scenes will be violent in nature and there also will be scenes of torture.

Addionally, I want to make the game easy to play for both people who have played doki doki and those who haven't.

 

[Sphere42]

That is not "field testing" for "mass destruction". And how the hell would they even try to keep any of this secret in a whole school full of teenagers?

Seriously what does this weird overly complex backstory even add over the mundane sociopath? The kid who enjoyed burning ants with a magnifying glass who got beaten up by his alcoholic parents all the time? You clearly don't care about making the character sympathetic or more relatable so what's the point if it isn't some obscure lore in canon?

 

[Grand Duke]

Perhaps you're misunderstanding by what I mean by "mass destruction," as it's more of a societal thing than physical. Being able to cause mass-chaos in society, destroy powerful organizations and take down world leaders. Taking full control of a school would be great "testing," for these end goals.

Of course keeping everything a secret is exactly what he was created to do, taking control of situations with no one noticing is what makes a "manipulator."

I wanted to give this backstory for a couple reasons.

1. It explains his intelligence and physical capabilities canonically

2. It adds motivation and structure to the story as well as an end goal.

3. I think it creates a more interesting dynamic than a sociopath who decided to take over his school or something along those lines.

 

[Sphere42]

Perhaps you're misunderstanding by what I mean by "mass destruction," as it's more of a societal thing than physical. Being able to cause mass-chaos in society, destroy powerful organizations and take down world leaders. Taking full control of a school would be great "testing," for these end goals.

And all that is completely worthless when all major enemies know of your weird unethical pet project. Proper test results require support staff on hand and it's easy enough to figure out what's going on when you know "something" is up. School girls who would be cowed into submission from being raped also aren't a good testing ground for "mass chaos" or "taking down world leaders" - this is the sort of thing you might use to train a spy or a saboteur and test in some government ministry no one cares about instead of exposing the project to the public.

Of course keeping everything a secret is exactly what he was created to do, taking control of situations with no one noticing is what makes a "manipulator."

Yeah you know what doesn't really work that way? Raping people when you don't already have an independent position of social power established to hide behind. And it's not really "taking control" either, rape is the admission that you have nothing else to offer, neither genuine nor deceptive, and must resort to physical violence. Or poison I guess, for the coward's option.

1. It explains his intelligence and physical capabilities canonically

No it does not, it creates an entire mess of pseudoscientific technobabble with little to no basis in reality. Just give "ant kid" a reasonably high IQ (like 120-130 not 200+!) and a history with Gym Bro, Pick Up Artist and Incel online culture. He doesn't need to actually be super capable and chances are you can't write a competent plot under that condition anyway (i.e. way too easy to make him a villain sue or cutscene dumb) - he just needs to think he's that capable and get away with it for however long the game lasts.

2. It adds motivation and structure to the story as well as an end goal.

I don't see what it would add over self-proclaimed goals. "I'll make them all my bitches begging for my cock" seems perfectly fine for a manipulative sociopath even without a "quest giver" institute behind them.

3. I think it creates a more interesting dynamic than a sociopath who decided to take over his school or something along those lines.

What kind of dynamic? If you're writing an actual character you obviously wouldn't just make them do it for the lulz, but you could add a personal motivation. Probably some kind of personal slight in the past e.g. as a child you confessed your love to the (now-)head cheerleader and she humiliated you, but of course she's super popular so you need to undermine several other people first to get away with your real revenge. Or you blame the principal for your past abuse and want to ruin "her" school as your graduation present to yourself.

If you think you have an interesting story to tell go for it, but you make it sound more like you want a convenient excuse for a specific style of gameplay. And in that regard I am extremely weary of any game which claims to give the player this kind of "control". It almost always ends up with either "but thou must" plot dumb or a disappointing lack of sex options when the player's preferences inevitably diverge from the author's.

 

[Grand Duke]

And all that is completely worthless when all major enemies know of your weird unethical pet project. Proper test results require support staff on hand and it's easy enough to figure out what's going on when you know "something" is up. School girls who would be cowed into submission from being raped also aren't a good testing ground for "mass chaos" or "taking down world leaders" - this is the sort of thing you might use to train a spy or a saboteur and test in some government ministry no one cares about instead of exposing the project to the public.

The main character has already been tested in a lab since the day he was born, he's had years of every kind of psychological and physical training, simulating any situation that might ever come up in his "Work." However, lab testing and results are one thing but those are controlled environments with controlled variables, the real world doesn't work so kindly. He's taking the school over from the shadows, taking people in as his puppets without them ever realizing, the chance that his true identity would get leaked by some regular high school students are negligible. This orginization does have government influence to fall back upon, however they really aren't taking a risk with this project.

Yeah you know what doesn't really work that way? Raping people when you don't already have an independent position of social power established to hide behind. And it's not really "taking control" either, rape is the admission that you have nothing else to offer, neither genuine nor deceptive, and must resort to physical violence. Or poison I guess, for the coward's option.

I mentioned rape however don't be mistaken as it's an extremely rare "fall back," method, it isn't something that he'll try if he can efficiently seduce the girls instead and break them from there.

No it does not, it creates an entire mess of pseudoscientific technobabble with little to no basis in reality. Just give "ant kid" a reasonably high IQ (like 120-130 not 200+!) and a history with Gym Bro, Pick Up Artist and Incel online culture. He doesn't need to actually be super capable and chances are you can't write a competent plot under that condition anyway (i.e. way too easy to make him a villain sue or cutscene dumb) - he just needs to think he's that capable and get away with it for however long the game lasts.

I don't believe that I would be able to write a truly engaging manipulative "genius," main character if his iq was just a little bit above average. In this case being a "villain sue," is canonically supported, someone raised to be perfect their entire life and chosen over thousands of other "pets," will be someone with extraordinary intelligence and capabilities. Either way, the archetype of a "villain," mc has never really been explored on here despite the thousands of games, and I don't consider some sleep molester with no consciousness thoughts or motivations a "villain."

I don't see what it would add over self-proclaimed goals. "I'll make them all my bitches begging for my cock" seems perfectly fine for a manipulative sociopath even without a "quest giver" institute behind them.

Sort of feels shallow.

What kind of dynamic? If you're writing an actual character you obviously wouldn't just make them do it for the lulz, but you could add a personal motivation. Probably some kind of personal slight in the past e.g. as a child you confessed your love to the (now-)head cheerleader and she humiliated you, but of course she's super popular so you need to undermine several other people first to get away with your real revenge. Or you blame the principal for your past abuse and want to ruin "her" school as your graduation present to yourself.

Again something like this feels sort of shallow and the plot leans towards an "end goal," that isn't all that satisfying in of itself. Having a defined end goal is fine however it also restricts storytelling and can derail a story.

If you think you have an interesting story to tell go for it, but you make it sound more like you want a convenient excuse for a specific style of game play. And in that regard I am extremely weary of any game which claims to give the player this kind of "control". It almost always ends up with either "but thou must" plot dumb or a disappointing lack of sex options when the player's preferences inevitably diverge from the author's.

What kind of control are you referring to? I understand what you mean but again, this sort of style of main character has never really been explored, I'll try to make h-scenes that anyone can enjoy both vanilla in nature and more "violent ," as well.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

I would love a manipulative character but the whole:

He became this way from being created by a eugenics organization that attempts to create weapons of mass destruction in the form of "perfect humans."

Instantly killed all interest.
Because instead of just having a smart manipulative character we get a lab experiment gone rogue.
To me that just sound as trying to swift blame(As in he was raised that way by evil people) away from the main character and remove all agency.
Instead of being a manipulative man he is a rogue experiment.

As for what i would like to see:
Reading people.
For example:
A girl is insecure about her homework.
*internal thoughts* Helping her with her homework will gain me her trust.

Offers to help with her homework.
After doing the homework event 3 times(because games always have 3 for everything)
He suggest to help her study at home.
Claiming that she is too distracted in the libery and that her room would have a more relaxing effect.
Next scene:
Meeting her mother.
*internal thoughts*
I need to find a way to get them to fight.
So that she relies on me even more.
Severing ties with sources of comfirm is vital if i want to make her my sex toy.
After i made her mine i will use her to get her mother aswhile.
Patience <charname> patience.
Manipulation is an art and you cannot rush art.

Be very polite and helpful while looking for a way to drive a wedge between the mother and daughter.

In short:
I want the main character to look at people as puzzle's to be solved.
Find weaknesses to exploit.
Gain trust and slowly twist and turn the victems until there are so depended on them that they cannot defy him in anything.

An other way might be him hiring a group of gangbangers to have the father murdered tho i consider having to result to murder as a failure.

An other thing would be to convince the mother to fuck the father to sleep so you can have your way with her daughter.

Yes i know none of this has to do with the Doki Doki game.
But it was the first the came to mind.

A good manipulation game focus on working all the angels.
For example:
In a lot of games you can rape to you heart content and the police will not even be called.
That kills immersion.
Having several traps where you have to take into consideration that the police isnt as stupid as media makes them out to be.
For example: Sex in public shoud draw attention.
So being smart about it is important.
Likewise most parents(I hope) care about there kids and will probley murder you if you rape there kids.
or comfirm them if you hurt there feelings.
First step in any manipulation attempt is to make the victem trust you above all others.
Even if they know you are a lying two face good for nothing jackass.
You want them to lissen to you.
To believe you.

Turning friends against eachother.
Convince a girl that losing her virginity is a great achievement.
Talking a woman into whoring herself out to make ends meet.
The sex is secondry.
Getting stuck up pridefull bitches to demand themselves into whoring for you will please me more then all the sex in the world.
For that is power.
The ability to control others.
And manipulation is the art of convincing people to do what you want.

An other example:
Lex luther running for president fully exploited superman paranoia of him to make him look like an fool obsessed with finding evil where there is none.
Using there paranoia to turn others against them.
And when there all alone.
You push them over the edge.
Telling them how nobody will ever believe them again.
That nobody will ever trust them again.
That all they have is you.
And you too will leave if they ever disobey you.

Bring them to the edge of dispare then offer them a way out.
The devil bargain works best on the desperate.

 

[Sphere42]

This orginization does have government influence to fall back upon, however they really aren't taking a risk with this project.

Testing this in a setting as public as a school IS a massive risk! If they're working with the government/its secret services then they'll use some kind of easily controllable office setting first, and then probably other corporate or diplomatic settings. Both for better control over potential leaks (NDAs, bribes etc.) and because a bunch of hormonal but ultimately "subdued" teenagers really isn't the target group you want to optimise for.

"genius," main character if his iq was just a little bit above average. In this case being a "villain sue," is canonically supported, someone raised to be perfect their entire life and chosen over thousands of other "pets," will be someone with extraordinary intelligence and capabilities.

More gifted characters are harder to write because you need to construct appropriate challenges for them. A "villain sue" is not the same as a simply overpowered villain, Superman himself is stupidly OP so you do need an evil "super genius" like Lex Luthor to match him. In a game it's even more pressing because you need to devise engaging gameplay mechanics, although you can also use engaging mechanics to cover up poor narrative balance. Basically the "beat'em'up" approach where combo/style points for how you beat hordes of mooks replace the test of skill implied by being able to beat them at all in the first place. In this context that means either largely unrelated minigames or an engaging story of how the manipulation works rather than the player guiding the PC into a position of being capable of such manipulation.

Either way, the archetype of a "villain," mc has never really been explored on here despite the thousands of games, and I don't consider some sleep molester with no consciousness thoughts or motivations a "villain."

Yes it has a "love" route, no that is not the one in the title.

Again something like this feels sort of shallow and the plot leans towards an "end goal," that isn't all that satisfying in of itself. Having a defined end goal is fine however it also restricts storytelling and can derail a story.

What do you mean with "shallow"? Keep in mind these were just stereotypical examples to show that it's "possible" not plots I would consider particularly engaging myself. The second one with the principal literally has the same end goal as your proposal as far as the actual game is concerned, it simply doesn't add any externally imposed "meaning" to that goal by default. If you want that "meaning" just add God/Satan, a data point for an evil megacorp isn't much of a motivation anyway.

What kind of control are you referring to? I understand what you mean but again, this sort of style of main character has never really been explored, I'll try to make h-scenes that anyone can enjoy both vanilla in nature and more "violent ," as well.

If my goal is to humiliate a girl in "standard porn land" why can't I forbid her from shaving if I (the player) happen to like pubic hair? Why can't I fuck her in a mating press position if I prefer that over doggy style? Why can't I feed her laxatives if I'm into scat? Or on the plot/gameplay side if someone is supposed to be an "obedient slave" why can't I have her stand guard while doing something shady? Why do I have to take the risk of stealing underwear from the girls' locker room when I could have a girl do it instead? Basically unless it's a kinetic novel giving the protagonist control over other characters means giving the player control over those characters too, and that means you quickly run into the limits of what you as the author/dev can account for. A rather amusing example is Slave Maker 3: despite literally owning women and training them as sex slaves you cannot actually rape them. You need to raise their "Obedience" stat and make them agree to sex, which is still statutory rape anyway so no moral brownie points mind you, because the game was based on the SFW Princess Maker which to my knowledge did not feature slavery or rape as core aspects of the setting.

 

[Grand Duke]

Testing this in a setting as public as a school IS a massive risk! If they're working with the government/its secret services then they'll use some kind of easily controllable office setting first, and then probably other corporate or diplomatic settings. Both for better control over potential leaks (NDAs, bribes etc.) and because a bunch of hormonal but ultimately "subdued" teenagers really isn't the target group you want to optimise for.

You could look at it as "stage one," of getting him proper experience in society before actually "releasing him," to do actual work for the organization. Again he's still a test subject and extremely young (16). They aren't going to risk losing one of their successful experiments so they drop him off in an extremely easy environment. As well, he's too young to be reasonably working
in the cooperate world.

engaging story of how the manipulation works rather than the player guiding the PC into a position of being capable of such manipulation.

This is honestly what I've been aiming towards so far, actually explaining the manipulation in depth to make the player feel like something is actually happening and create an engaging story.

What do you mean with "shallow"? Keep in mind these were just stereotypical examples to show that it's "possible" not plots I would consider particularly engaging myself. The second one with the principal literally has the same end goal as your proposal as far as the actual game is concerned, it simply doesn't add any externally imposed "meaning" to that goal by default. If you want that "meaning" just add God/Satan, a data point for an evil megacorp isn't much of a motivation anyway.

I misunderstood what you said and was more so looking at it as an individual "plot," rather than a broad example. However, I believe that there should be some sort of "meaning," to actions and paired along with what I said earlier, the lab experiment backstory provides this. It can provide actual consequences for failure that aren't just "you got caught, try again."

If my goal is to humiliate a girl in "standard porn land" why can't I forbid her from shaving if I (the player) happen to like pubic hair? Why can't I fuck her in a mating press position if I prefer that over doggy style? Why can't I feed her laxatives if I'm into scat? Or on the plot/gameplay side if someone is supposed to be an "obedient slave" why can't I have her stand guard while doing something shady? Why do I have to take the risk of stealing underwear from the girls' locker room when I could have a girl do it instead? Basically unless it's a kinetic novel giving the protagonist control over other characters means giving the player control over those characters too, and that means you quickly run into the limits of what you as the author/dev can account for. A rather amusing example is Slave Maker 3: despite literally owning women and training them as sex slaves you cannot actually rape them. You need to raise their "Obedience" stat and make them agree to sex, which is still statutory rape anyway so no moral brownie points mind you, because the game was based on the SFW Princess Maker which to my knowledge did not feature slavery or rape as core aspects of the setting.

Well my answer would be that it isn't reasonable to expect to satisty the desires of every single players each with their own kinks, likes and dislikes. That's why having broad scenes that can reasonably appeal to anyone is better in my opinion. At the moment I haven't decided whether I want this to be kinetic or not, however if I choose the ladder the options will be limited to big decisions to change the course of the whole story and nothing minor like that.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

I misunderstood what you said and was more so looking at it as an individual "plot," rather than a broad example. However, I believe that there should be some sort of "meaning," to actions and paired along with what I said earlier, the lab experiment backstory provides this. It can provide actual consequences for failure that aren't just "you got caught, try again."

A horny teenager without morals(Aka your avarage porn game mc) is all the motivation you need.
Raptus does a good job of setting up the main character as a psychopath.
He fully embraces what he is and knows he isnt normal.
He just doesnt care.

As for consequences.
Getting arrested is a good consequence.

 

[Grand Duke]

A horny teenager without morals(Aka your avarage porn game mc) is all the motivation you need.

You're right in saying this however I feel as if this is the motivation factor for every main character on here. It really isn't original and I'd rather write a main character who uses sex as a weapon instead of as an end goal.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

You're right in saying this however I feel as if this is the motivation factor for every main character on here. It really isn't original and I'd rather write a main character who uses sex as a weapon instead of as an end goal.

I suggest a corperate spy game instead then.

Also:
Evil organization is behind everything is also overdone.

 

[Grand Duke]

I suggest a corperate spy game instead then.

I've already written about 15k words on this story and am satisfied with it so far, so can't really scrap it now. I was more so trying to find what people were looking for / enjoy in a manipulative MC than change the plot entirely.

I do have a question however, what engine do prefer parody games made in? I was thinking of using koikatsu but i'm really not sure.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

I've already written about 15k words on this story and am satisfied with it so far, so can't really scrap it now. I was more so trying to find what people were looking for / enjoy in a manipulative MC than change the plot entirely.

Reminds me of take over.
It too promissed a manipulative mc.
It failed to deliver.
I hope you succeed.
I am tired of idiot main characters stumbling into success.

I do have a question however, what engine do prefer parody games made in? I was thinking of using koikatsu but i'm really not sure.

I useally use unren to see if the scence are worth it.
So i general prefer renpy games because it allows me to see if i am not wasting my time playing it.
Unity and rpmg i also tent to use tho for the most part i dont care about the engine.
I care about the game.

When looking for a game the first thing i do is check the discription.
If that isnt compelling i move on to the next.
If it is compelling i check the screenshots.
Then i check the reviews.
Looking for the 3 star or less as i find negative reviews to be more honest then the 5 star i got no taste and praise everything about the game review.
If the review doesnt mention negative's i suspect the reviewer being an easy to please idiot.

You want to make a good first impression.
Games that get better latter rarely get replayed unless it is really populair.(and talked about how it gets better later)

Tho a fair warning.
I neither pay for porn games nor am i easy to please.
So you shoud never make a porn game for me.
I am just a old whiny ass man who has way to many demands for everything.

 

[Atemsiel]

Tbh just make it how you want to make it. Games based on existing franchises tend to do well, when they're done well. Deciding to try to adapt the game to an audience of people on a pirate site before you've even decided upon what you're gonna use for the visuals, kinda says that you won't be interested in making the game unless others are interested in supporting it, and if that's the case, why are you making it?

I could be misunderstanding your intentions, but I've seen loads of threads like this, but very few games come out of them, and even fewer are still running. If you wanna make a game, then make the game you wanna make. If your intention is to make a cool game just because want to, that's fantastic. No idea why you'd be asking for peoples opinions this early if that was the case though.

Regardless, best of luck to you in your project.

 

[Grand Duke]

Reminds me of take over.
It too promissed a manipulative mc.
It failed to deliver.
I hope you succeed.
I am tired of idiot main characters stumbling into success.

I've seen the problems with Take over and don't plan on repeating them. I'll most likely release a demo when I have about an hour - an hour and a half or so of content (Currently have around 50 minutes- 1 hour) to see general reactions on what I have so far and adjust accordingly.

Tho a fair warning.
I neither pay for porn games nor am i easy to please.
So you shoud never make a porn game for me.
I am just a old whiny ass man who has way to much demands for everything.

Don't ever plan on monetizing this, but it's something I've been casually writing for the past few weeks. Just want to hear people's opinions and recommendations to maximize my target audience.

 

[Sphere42]

You could look at it as "stage one," of getting him proper experience in society before actually "releasing him," to do actual work for the organization. Again he's still a test subject and extremely young (16). They aren't going to risk losing one of their successful experiments so they drop him off in an extremely easy environment. As well, he's too young to be reasonably working
in the cooperate world.

So you believe a "stage one test subject" is viable to send into a school, where nosy and rule defying pupils but also teachers, parents and other staff interact with him and also with the general public? But sending him into some rural branch of the post office or the ministry of transport as an intern isn't? Nobody gives a shit about interns, nobody pays attention to them unless they need a gopher or a victim to bully (both excellent challenges to manipulate your way out of!) and civil servants typically won't bother to gossip much about what they're up to even without a signed NDA.

It can provide actual consequences for failure that aren't just "you got caught, try again."

How exactly? "You got caught, now we need to speed up prototype beta-33 to replace you"?

Well my answer would be that it isn't reasonable to expect to satisty the desires of every single players each with their own kinks, likes and dislikes. That's why having broad scenes that can reasonably appeal to anyone is better in my opinion.

But this is the exact opposite of "control". It makes the player feel powerless and highlights that someone else is in control of the setting, especially if you include some "theme-appropriate" fetishes but not others e.g. you allow beating and name-calling but not degrading body writing. And if you don't include such fetishes at all then it'll seem way too tame and boring for a supposedly edgy hardcore villain protagonist game.

It really isn't original and I'd rather write a main character who uses sex as a weapon instead of as an end goal.

How did you miss that both my examples featured revenge as the end goal and sex as the (implied) means of enacting it? Taking down a bully or authority figure is a perfectly reasonable motivation for a teenager even if they are horny, and if phrased that way you also emphasise that the evil stems from the character himself and the choices they make rather than some purpose imposed upon them by higher powers. In your example the lab is evil but the player is more of an automaton than an evil person themselves.

When looking for a game the first thing i do is check the discription.

...unless it's a Japanese RPGM-style game, in which case ignore the description because it's mostly bogus even if legible.

 

[ImperialD]

i'm an old player ... 61 in RL .. never heard of doki doki ... what is that ?

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

...unless it's a Japanese RPGM-style game, in which case ignore the description because it's mostly bogus even if legible.

Japanese games are on my ignore list.
Seriously.
Has japan ever made a game with a sensable plot?