Would You Enjoy this?

Oct 14, 2022
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i'm an old player ... 61 in RL .. never heard of doki doki ... what is that ? :unsure:
I suspect:


Kinda reminds me of a fun idea for a game i had a while back.
Whore club:
Where the main character has 2-4 years(how long is highschool again?) to set up a whore club.
Ofcourse you can not just set up a whore club.
No teacher would ever agree to that.
So you need to find a way to reqruit class mate's into being your whore's while keeping the school in the dark about what your club is really about.
With the ending depending on how well you did.
Do you become a pimp?
A CEO?
A macdonels employee?
The idea was focused on risk management, manipulation and bussiness management(Paying your whore's, finding costumers, Buying a building to make it easier and safer for your whore's, getting security, etc.
After all a blackeye caused by a unruly customer is hard to hide.)

A pity so many idea's require just way to much effort to code.
I can not even imagine just how many hours it would take just to get a decent stat system.
 
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Atemsiel

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i'm an old player ... 61 in RL .. never heard of doki doki ... what is that ? :unsure:
One of the more famous ren'py based VN games. It wasn't a sex game though, more just like a dating story. !
 
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Count Morado

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Deciding to try to adapt the game to an audience of people on a pirate site before you've even decided upon what you're gonna use for the visuals, kinda says that you won't be interested in making the game unless others are interested in supporting it, and if that's the case, why are you making it?
1669158460384.png
 

Grand Duke

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Tbh just make it how you want to make it. Games based on existing franchises tend to do well, when they're done well. Deciding to try to adapt the game to an audience of people on a pirate site before you've even decided upon what you're gonna use to the visuals, kinda says that you won't be interested in making the game unless others are interested in supporting it, and if that's the case, why are you making it?
I see your point, and at the end of the day it's a tool for me as writer to get a second opinion less than being motivated by potential "popularity," of the game or what that entails down the line. I think it's good to see what other people think of the idea, what they like to see as there's no real drawback, it gives me more ideas and some outside perspective on the game which I can use to make a better story for both myself and the readers.


I could be misunderstanding your intentions, but I've seen loads of threads like this, but very few games come out of them, and even fewer are still running. If you wanna make a game, then make the game you wanna make. If your intention is to make a cool game just because want to, that's fantastic. No idea why you'd be asking for peoples opinions this early if that was the case though.
I've been writing the script of this game for a little bit and honestly enjoying it. I've been careful not to burnout on the game, just writing a little bit everyday. You could say that i'm writing this game for both myself, as a work I've created and as something that other people can enjoy. So again, I think it's best to get an outside perspective on things like this to both keep myself on track and also find good ideas. This is really a thread that I can only make before the game itself is released so I might as well.

Regardless, best of luck to you in your project.
Thank you, you too.
 

Atemsiel

Developer of Stormside
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I see your point, and at the end of the day it's a tool for me as writer to get a second opinion less than being motivated by potential "popularity," of the game or what that entails down the line. I think it's good to see what other people think of the idea, what they like to see as there's no real drawback, it gives me more ideas and some outside perspective on the game which I can use to make a better story for both myself and the readers.

I've been writing the script of this game for a little bit and honestly enjoying it. I've been careful not to burnout on the game, just writing a little bit everyday. You could say that i'm writing this game for both myself, as a work I've created and as something that other people can enjoy. So again, I think it's best to get an outside perspective on things like this to both keep myself on track and also find good ideas. This is really a thread that I can only make before the game itself is released so I might as well.

Thank you, you too.
Yep, this is all entirely fair. I apologise if I came across as blunt or anything like that, it's not my intention to discourage you. I hope you get the answers you're looking for from this thread, and that you end up having a hella good doki doki game. Good luck.
 

ImperialD

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Oct 24, 2019
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One of the more famous ren'py based VN games. It wasn't a sex game though, more just like a dating story. !
sounds kinda eerie ... are you planning murder or suicide in your game ?
 

Atemsiel

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Jan 4, 2022
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sounds kinda eerie ... are you planning murder or suicide in your game ?
Lol, my game, or ddlc? I haven't actually played ddlc, but it's kinda famous enough that I know generally what it's about. It's a bit darker than it seems on the surface... No murder or suicide planned in my game though, but that's not what this thread is about.
 
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ImperialD

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oh ... ok sorry ... but you said it was similar .. so i just assumed .. its what i get for assuming again .... dammit .. sorry for the misunderstanding :unsure:
 

Grand Duke

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So you believe a "stage one test subject" is viable to send into a school, where nosy and rule defying pupils but also teachers, parents and other staff interact with him and also with the general public? But sending him into some rural branch of the post office or the ministry of transport as an intern isn't? Nobody gives a shit about interns, nobody pays attention to them unless they need a gopher or a victim to bully (both excellent challenges to manipulate your way out of!) and civil servants typically won't bother to gossip much about what they're up to even without a signed NDA.
I think that point boils more down to me wanting to create a game based on high school instead of an office stetting in the end.

How exactly? "You got caught, now we need to speed up prototype beta-33 to replace you"?
Being arrested and being killed off and marked as a "failure," are two different consequences.

But this is the exact opposite of "control". It makes the player feel powerless and highlights that someone else is in control of the setting, especially if you include some "theme-appropriate" fetishes but not others e.g. you allow beating and name-calling but not degrading body writing. And if you don't include such fetishes at all then it'll seem way too tame and boring for a supposedly edgy hardcore villain protagonist game.
Again, it's impossible to satisfy everyone. If you focus your game too much on a particular kink then it limits who can enjoy the game while more broad scenes can, usually, be enjoyed by everyone. This doesn't mean that I won't include more hardcore content that lies up with the game's edgy nature.


How did you miss that both my examples featured revenge as the end goal and sex as the (implied) means of enacting it? Taking down a bully or authority figure is a perfectly reasonable motivation for a teenager even if they are horny, and if phrased that way you also emphasise that the evil stems from the character himself and the choices they make rather than some purpose imposed upon them by higher powers. In your example the lab is evil but the player is more of an automaton than an evil person themselves.
I was replying to someone else, not denouncing your examples. I understand where you're coming from on him not truly being "evil," as he was "manufactured," for that purpose but I don't think it takes immersion away from the average player.
 

Ophanim

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If I had a $0.05 for every time I'd seen a 'rogue science experiement OC' plot in fanfic, I'd be a rich bitch rn lol. This kind of feels like you watched Full Metal Jacket but found its messaging about properly caring for traumatized soldiers in order for them to be able to return to civilian life to be too heartwarming, more than it does... anything to do with DDLC? I'm not even a fan but I saw your idea for an OC and I'm sorry, I really am, but my eyes are rolling up into my skull from the sheer number of times I've seen this kind of OC, and seen it crash and burn like... nine times out of ten? Maybe higher? Shadow the Hedgehog was literally this?

Why don't you come up with an actual characterization reason, as in, a belief system the character has that leads him to want things, and then have him conclude that manipulation has the best chance of success, if that's what you want? Maybe being manipulative is his social defence mechanism, to head off people before they start bullying him? Maybe he has a mild complex around being a 'great intellectual' and thinks others are too dumb to make good decisions themselves, due to a stunted sense of empathy? Adding this pseudoscientific eugenicist faction seems like a terrible idea because it adds so much narrative overhead onto the game for the simple narrative utility of 'make protagonist cold and manipulative' when you could just, you know, characterize him. It's going to severely fuck with the tone, and for what? For a narrative structure that almost always becomes a carbon copy of FMJ by the end.

Also, having him be a pawn of an organization like this just puts you right back in the 'protagonist getting pushed around' zone. And if he breaks free... once again: Full Metal Jacket.

Like, what is it about 'I was experimented on by the government against my will, and now I have an excuse to be an edgelord 24/7' that is like crack cocaine for teen boys? It's like... victim complex power fantasy, idk.
 
Oct 14, 2022
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Maybe he has a mild complex around being a 'great intellectual' and thinks others are too dumb to make good decisions themselves, due to a stunted sense of empathy?
This is pretty much my excuees for talking down to people.
And to be fair.
The vast majority of people are too stupid to think for themselves.
 
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anne O'nymous

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Because instead of just having a smart manipulative character we get a lab experiment gone rogue.
To me that just sound as trying to swift blame(As in he was raised that way by evil people) away from the main character and remove all agency.
Instead of being a manipulative man he is a rogue experiment.
It's probably not the kind of plot I would enjoy, but I totally agree with you.

There's just no interest to play a villain who is deprived of any responsibility for his behavior. In the end, there would be near to no difference between him and "the main character[s that] gets pushed around and [are] seemingly oblivious to everything that is happening around [them]" that OP is tired to see.
Of course, his MC is dominant. Of course he don't let others walks on his feet, and he take no orders. But he is still someone who have absolutely no control over his evilness and, therefore, the control he have over his life is nothing more than an illusion. He is also totally oblivious of the world that surround him, not knowing that he should have no obligation to be like that and could be evil by desire ; did he even have desires on his own, I doubt.

From my point of view, it's a MC even more pathetic than the usual looser we can found around there. Them at least know that they don't have control over their life and, in a way or another, try to fight against this. But this MC ? He's nothing more than a willingly compliant puppet, and totally oblivious of the fact that it's what he is.
 

Grand Duke

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It's probably not the kind of plot I would enjoy, but I totally agree with you.

There's just no interest to play a villain who is deprived of any responsibility for his behavior. In the end, there would be near to no difference between him and "the main character[s that] gets pushed around and [are] seemingly oblivious to everything that is happening around [them]" that OP is tired to see.
Of course, his MC is dominant. Of course he don't let others walks on his feet, and he take no orders. But he is still someone who have absolutely no control over his evilness and, therefore, the control he have over his life is nothing more than an illusion. He is also totally oblivious of the world that surround him, not knowing that he should have no obligation to be like that and could be evil by desire ; did he even have desires on his own, I doubt.

From my point of view, it's a MC even more pathetic than the usual looser we can found around there. Them at least know that they don't have control over their life and, in a way or another, try to fight against this. But this MC ? He's nothing more than a willingly compliant puppet, and totally oblivious of the fact that it's what he is.
Again I still really don't believe that him being a puppet to a larger more powerful organization takes away much immersion. In fact, it might very well do the opposite. A good example would be Kazami Yuuji from Fruit of the Grisaia who is very well liked for providing a new type of more cold hearted and "bad ass," mc. Despite this, he's still very much a puppet or a "dog," to his organization who orders him around but in the end this lack of control adds to his characterization. I don't plan to make my mc oblivious to his role as a puppet.
 

Nagozo

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A lot of good critiques in this thread on the 'realism' of your chosen setting, but I'd just like to add that you can make it work regardless of how realistic it sounds. If the story doesn't take itself too seriously -- that is, if you recognise that you're writing a fantasy story, the main driver for the reader's interest is the characterisation. The rest of it can be handled by our suspension of disbelief.

I don't plan to make my mc oblivious to his role as a puppet.
Your MC will need a solid, believable reason for why he's doing what he's doing. Whether or not he enjoys it will also decide what kind of character he turns out to be. Like some others have mentioned, it'll be easy to turn to an 'edgelord' kind of personality, so it's important to humanise him through his relationships with other characters and with himself. He's a young person, so despite his supposed background there's some room to play with emotionality. That should give you a way to create struggles that the reader can get invested in; as opposed to simply putting faux obstacles on his way and giving him no inner life.

Ultimately, if you have a creative vision, go create. Even if it ends up sucking, at least you'll have learned about what not to do.
 

anne O'nymous

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Again I still really don't believe that him being a puppet to a larger more powerful organization takes away much immersion.
It's not a question of immersion ; it would still be possible to immerse in a story that would have an ant as MC. Instead it's a question of emotional impact, whatever if it's a positive one or a negative one. Without it, your MC is blunt and present near to no interest.

You can be as critical as you want regarding MCs who are pushed over by life, manipulated by others, and totally oblivious of the their thoughts, them at least, and obviously when they are correctly wrote, trigger a reaction from the player.
Take a game like Sexbot by example. The MC is the archetype of a looser, from the model used to represent it, to the way he is wrote. Yet he is liked by the players, and the game relatively successful. Whatever if the main emotion from it come from empathy, and therefore if the player will want to improve MC's life, or if it come from a desire to bully him, and therefore the player will make him submit to everyone, including his personal sexbot. It can even just be sympathy ; after all, he's an average Joe who's searching his place in this world.
The same apply for MC who stand on the villain side. They offer an escape from normality, and/or morality. The time of a game, you can express the dark part of yourself, and this can be really enjoyable. And whatever if you hate this MC, hate is an emotion, therefore the writer succeeded.

But your MC, as you define it so far, what emotion will he trigger ? He isn't a real villain since it's not his choice, therefore there's no pleasure to play him that way. And having pity of him for his fate is useless, because there's no way to change this.


A good example would be Kazami Yuuji from Fruit of the Grisaia who is very well liked for providing a new type of more cold hearted and "bad ass," mc. Despite this, he's still very much a puppet or a "dog," to his organization who orders him around but in the end this lack of control adds to his characterization.
There's a big difference between being forced to do something, and being "genetically programmed" to do it. Like there's a difference between the personality you chose to take on, and the one you're forced to follow.
Yes, Kazami is liked for/despite what he is. For some it's because he's a bad ass with a cold heart, for other it's because he turned this way to not broke, and for others it's because he's pitied for his fate. But in the end, he is this way by choice and nothing more. He could have any personality, it would change nothing in his fate. And this is something really important, because it's this small part of freewill that he still own, that make him human and possibly likable.

Freewill, the keyword that offer to a character, even a robot, the possibly to trigger an emotion and to be liked.
Take the Separatist's droids in Star Wars. In the movies they are all extra characters no one care about. But in the Clone Wars series, the basic troopers have the freedom to be total idiots, and suddenly they become one of the most liked character in the series. This while all the others being deprived of this small particularity, stay uninteresting background characters and story fillers.
Freewill is also what your MC is totally deprived of ; at least as you describe it so far. And, while it can works when put into the hands of a good writer, having a main character that is nothing more than a filler is rarely a good idea.
 

kintarodev

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There are some pretty solid ideas around already. I also find interesting the main concept of the experiment thing. What I don't see necessary is to relat it to doki doki for any reason nor in any way. That game itself is already a parody/deconstruction of the genre archtypes. Just use those archtypes in wathever way you feel like. That way you will also own your own IP.

about mc motivations, to me the setting resonates with stories like code geass, huumatsu no harem and saishuu heiki kanojo. I dont know, I think there are many ways to put this. Geez even the classic spider man clone saga can be an inspiration :rolleyes:
 
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Ophanim

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As I said, it's not really about immersion for me either, it's about the pressure that frontloading all of this extra setting information is going to put on your story structure as an amateur writer. I'm far from a great writer myself, but as a prolific reader I've literally seen this exact idea crash and burn probably hundreds of times now in fanfiction and RP. Wolverine was really freaking popular, just saying.

C'mon, if you're pressed, just write Light Yagami into DDLC and watch the fireworks when you combine that with the deconstruction element of the setting? That would at least be funny to read? :)
 

Grand Duke

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Jun 11, 2021
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There are some pretty solid ideas around already. I also find interesting the main concept of the experiment thing. What I don't see necessary is to relat it to doki doki for any reason nor in any way. That game itself is already a parody/deconstruction of the genre archtypes. Just use those archtypes in wathever way you feel like. That way you will also own your own IP.
It's more that I wanted to write a DDLC story and wanted to write a manipulative mc being tired of the "oblivious," and perverted main character that has become the norm. I think it would also be more interesting for a story like DDLC where the girls have clearly traumatizing problems that can be explored/ exploited by such an mc.