VN Ren'Py WVM [S2 Ch.1 Ep.13 B7] [Braindrop]

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Is this the line to crap on BD for their lies and fake excuses?

 

[Goopgoop]

Your numbers are way off, you can unpack the game and check. There's 17555 renders and 400 animations in the current version (S2-C1-E13-B3). Of those, 9829 renders and 180 animations belong to Season 1 from 2021. Season 2 currently has 7726 renders and 220 animations. The ~9000 you mention is what BD reports as the current content of the full update (days 32-38 aka Season 2), meaning he should have ~1300 renders that we don't yet.

So he released ~5000 renders per year in the first 2 years, and has released ~3000 per year since. It's a big reduction but still a good average, there's a reason he has so many supporters.

As for why the "haters" are "flipping their lids", S2-C1-E13 was announced as a single big update set for October 2023 and was instead split into chunks which are not yet fully released. BD has been doing this kind of thing for 3+ years. The "hate" isn't about the quantity, it's about the lies. All BD had to do was report progress and release when ready, people didn't create expectations out of thin air, they were set by BD himself and eventually during the last 3 years the excuses became the content and once in a while we get the game as well.

Aight, so it's an even bigger game. All the more reason not to underestimate how much work that really is.

Yep. 3000 a year is a good average given the quality. I prefer that over games that rush releases where the release quality is significantly lower. In any kind of software project, there's always going to be a trade-off between speed, quantity and quality. This is the mix you get with BD.

As for expectations, I think we just fundamentally disagree about how to control our own, or how to respond to things we don't like. BD is an OCD dev with bad planning and communication skills (not really an uncommon combination when it comes to software engineers and animators). That was made apparently pretty early on. He can make any kind of prediction he wants and I'll take it with a saltshaker. You call it lies, I call it a guy continuously overestimating how fast things will get done to a level he's okay with. Either way it's a subjective judgement and the reality is probably a bit of both.

What it boils down to is that if his predictions are sh*t but his output is still a good average, then there isn't a real problem. It's like complaining that a bus driver isn't driving 130 kph because the bus has been delayed. I'm the kind of guy to just look out the window and enjoy the ride. I can't really relate to seeing excuses as content.

 

[SerHawkes]

Spoiler: The "Average" Look of the typical BD apologist

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Lets be real here. Some people are gonna be new and not really know the full story behind things, specially when Dictator BD has his discord and pateron clear up all the chat and such about his own bullshit. So sure, I'm semi willing to make a small pass on the uneducated. That said, if your trying to blindly defend the guy for his own bullshit excuses and mismanaging/milking the fuck out of this game... Your a special kind of moron in my book. Not sorry for say that.

 

[shamtiiomi]

What do you mean by "all this time"? He's not an hour-wage worker. His Patreon subscribers aren't his bosses. They're buying a product. They're paying for early access to new releases. Calling my assumption flawed and then making a pessimistic assumption yourself doesn't really help your case when you're trying to call my "logic" flawed.

I didn't make any assumptions about how many hours he spent on it each day. All I know is what that document says about the development stage of the update. You don't test until content is finished. Testing is for the purpose of quality control. I like that the content is finished, I like that they're filtering out typos and other mistakes. I also like that it's going to be a relatively large update of (at least) 750 renders.

I'm bubbling with anticipation. You're biting your nails impatiently. That's the difference between our mindsets and no criticism of my rationales is going to change that.

dude chill you are a newbie and dont know shit about the dude himself,bd is a lier and thats it ,if he says he goes to test the shit out of the update ,i will belive 1% of hat,and i know he will do that and is ok bcs i dont paying anymore of that shit,if he wanna conitnue liyng to his subs is not my problem ,and also no my problem if you are one fo them and come her to falselly acuse toher and stir shit up,we dont need cultmasters her and we dont need cult mindsuckers either.....

 

[Goopgoop]

Oh, the irony.

"Everyone else is so negative. However, I am an emotionally mature person, unlike them. If they don't accept that, they remain the negative presence."

Dude, no. Your self-righteousness is pretty much both passive aggressive and directly aggressive virtue signaling in favor of the dev. You're not spreading emotional maturity, you're taunting people as much as you're claiming you aren't.

"I am not touching you!" while holding your finger an inch from someone's neck.

Yet here I am, happy and unaffected. My perspective is not "in favour of the dev". It's "in favour of my own peace of mind." through the power of "accepting reality". As for the ad hominems I'm not going to dignify them with a response.

What they're doing and what I'm doing is fundamentally different. I am discussing people's actions with them. There is a possibility, however slim, that someone might gain some peace of mind or manage to refocus themselves if they take my arguments seriously.

Inversely, their efforts can't possibly gain anyone anything. At worst it's even counter-productive. Several of them have admitted in this short discussion that they're still going to play the game. But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives. Which means the updates will become fewer in between, and the game might even get abandoned entirely. Even if they don't care about playing the game anymore, the action remains destructive. Hence, negativity. Of course it could also have a negligible effect in which case it's "only" a waste of time.

I am in fact, not touching you. If you feel taunted by me not being bothered, that says more about you than it does about me. I would suggest cognitive-to-emotional feedback, but you'd just call me self-righteous again. No matter how dramatic you get, it doesn't change the fact that this entire discussion concerns a trivial topic that has no meaningful impact on any of our lives. So it's rational and reasonable to not be bothered by it. I'm not boasting about how great I am. What I'm doing is not exceptional or difficult. I'm just an average guy.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Aight, so it's an even bigger game. All the more reason not to underestimate how much work that really is.

Yep. 3000 a year is a good average given the quality. I prefer that over games that rush releases where the release quality is significantly lower. In any kind of software project, there's always going to be a trade-off between speed, quantity and quality. This is the mix you get with BD.

As for expectations, I think we just fundamentally disagree about how to control our own, or how to respond to things we don't like. BD is an OCD dev with bad planning and communication skills (not really an uncommon combination when it comes to software engineers and animators). That was made apparently pretty early on. He can make any kind of prediction he wants and I'll take it with a saltshaker. You call it lies, I call it a guy continuously overestimating how fast things will get done to a level he's okay with. Either way it's a subjective judgement and the reality is probably a bit of both.

What it boils down to is that if his predictions are sh*t but his output is still a good average, then there isn't a real problem. It's like complaining that a bus driver isn't driving 130 kph because the bus has been delayed. I'm the kind of guy to just look out the window and enjoy the ride. I can't really relate to seeing excuses as content.

His output is trash, he isn't overestimating he is making claims and then throwing out repeated excuses for delays meanwhile getting paid to pretend he is working. He claims these huge updates are coming uses that to milk money out of suckers then drops a few renders at most to appease the BD bootlickers and apologists so they can go "well he did drop something" yeah he dropped the fucking ball long ago and instead of picking it up he proceeded to teabag it, take a dump on it then kicked it into the faces of the people that USED TO believe in him. Simple. He is a liar. The games quality has gone into the shitter. There was supposed to be a remake of the first season ages ago but he can't be bothered as he is too busy pretending these bread crumb updates are fucking 100 dollar steak dinners. They aren't and the more people like you defend his bullshit the less likely he will bother to actually make the effort. Why would he bother to make any actual effort when people like yourself cover his ass for him? He will just continue to milk people dry while dropping dirt crumbs. At this point he is just throwing out whatever bullshit he can to keep this game going so he can make more money while giving less than the bare minimum.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Yet here I am, happy and unaffected. My perspective is not "in favour of the dev". It's "in favour of my own peace of mind." through the power of "accepting reality". As for the ad hominems I'm not going to dignify them with a response.

What they're doing and what I'm doing is fundamentally different. I am discussing people's actions with them. There is a possibility, however slim, that someone might gain some peace of mind or manage to refocus themselves if they take my arguments seriously.

Inversely, their efforts can't possibly gain anyone anything. At worst it's even counter-productive. Several of them have admitted in this short discussion that they're still going to play the game. But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives. Which means the updates will become fewer in between, and the game might even get abandoned entirely. Even if they don't care about playing the game anymore, the action remains destructive. Hence, negativity. Of course it could also have a negligible effect in which case it's "only" a waste of time.

I am in fact, not touching you. If you feel taunted by me not being bothered, that says more about you than it does about me. I would suggest cognitive-to-emotional feedback, but you'd just call me self-righteous again. No matter how dramatic you get, it doesn't change the fact that this entire discussion concerns a trivial topic that has no meaningful impact on any of our lives. So it's rational and reasonable to not be bothered by it. I'm not boasting about how great I am. What I'm doing is not exceptional or difficult. I'm just an average guy.

I will also add no. I don't feel taunted by you. And no i don't care. Yes I commented that doesn't mean I care that just means I have too much spare time.

 

[Akabakka]

Some are just being positively toxic , and don't even notice it , and even less how it's not better than "regular" toxicity . They got some headcanon about a group of angry dwellers having a stroke each key press . There are probably a few , there always are everywhere ... however , most complainers/whiners , I've seen around are just having fun during free times . Using facts or exaggerated truths , or plain memes about the situation the game is in . Shitposting BD and the game ain't the beginning nor the end of their day , it's just some downtime and a regular check-in.

Ironically its the defense force that feel angry and aggressive the most . Get a mirror already . Just because you're positive about the game , doesn't absolve you from shitty behavior and being actually aggressive and negative toward people you disagree with . And don't even try to deny it .. we do see some pretty triggered folks poppin' once every while , to lay it on thick about "entitlement" "piracy" and other fallacies , just because they got no real argument when sticking to discussing the game ... just plain anger .

 

[grim019]

I am discussing people's actions with them

Al they're doing is discussing BD's actions.

But their actions could easily result in people choosing not to become (or stay) a patreon member. Which would eventually result in BD losing interest in the project entirely due to the gradual erosion of his financial incentives.

It's BD's actions they're criticizing. So ultimatly the blame would be on him.

 

[Goopgoop]

You're putting emotions into people's text, not everyone that comments on a game thread gives a flying fuck about said game.

People generally don't spend time or effort on things they don't give a flying fuck about.

Where did I call you a brownnoser? You said yourself you dont think BD's doing a good job, so clearly youre not a brownnoser.

When you equated what I suggested to "making a safe space for brownnosers":

"Why would I make this a safe space for people that want to brownnose BD when he already has his patreon only discord?"

But it's good that you understand I'm not one... yet somehow I'm still getting dogpiled by the haters for trying to insert some chill-out-it's-just-a-game vibes into the already-ongoing discussion.

And to correct the comparison, what I'm suggesting is actually that if the development of the game is not a valid topic of discussion, as the forum rules suggest, both those defending BD and those attack him would be out of line.

That's your opinion, I disagree, that's fine. I moderate as I see fit, clearly that's not enough for you.

Yep. Ultimately I'm just a user. And whether you consider or apply any of the things I've said is as trivial to me as what everyone thinks of BD or WVM (whether positive or negative). I'll adapt to any environment in a way that is conducive to my well-being regardless. No hard feelings whatsoever. I'm in this discussion purely out of choice.

What rules are they breaking? And you seem to think that people would actually discuss anything here if they "werent run off by the hate train" despite the fact that theres still multiple posters here in the thread that discuss the game... My money would be on this game getting three posts a month, Hell, I've been the one posting the dev updates recently, one was around 20 hours late as well. As I've said multiple times now, people. just. dont. care.

Objectively, the rule quoted earlier. 7, wasn't it? I didn't make the rules, but I think it's a pretty good rule. 3 posts a month is preferable to this. It would be a very different environment and that alone would make it a more conductive place to actually talk about the game. When people showing interest get sarcastic jokes thrown at them, that tends to result in people not to bother asking things or sharing their opinion. Sure, there are people like me with anti-adhesive coating. But not everyone's like that.

But I do understand there are limitations on how much time can be spent enforcing them. It's just that if you have those rules you kind of create the expectation that they will at least be enforced to some degree (see what I did there? ). Because if you don't nobody is going to take them seriously. I moderated some online discussion boards at some point in life.

A pretty good method to de-escalate these kinds of things with little effort is to give a general warning to everyone to take a chill pill or face the consequences. Then account-ban anyone who kept going off-topic a week later and post the names of all the accounts banned in the thread they were banned in. Sends a really strong message regarding adherence to the rules.

Everyone is mainly here for the easy access to adult games. For which you need an account. Now with VPN and an infinite supply of email addresses, anyone who gets account or IP banned can make a new account. But that's still a hassle. So that would already dissuade many to keep such unwelcoming discussions up when warned. Devs and long-time users are even MORE inclined to value their current accounts. The warning means that everyone who gets banned knows exactly what for and they'll learn on their next registration.

Again, feel free to ignore it but don't be surprised if pockets of "wild west" will continue to pop up and create friction in the community. No need to respond. I'll drop it after this. Just some closing thoughts because you asked me a couple of questions.

 

[SerHawkes]

Same shit, new day. Not surprising one bit I see.

 

[Goopgoop]

Al they're doing is discussing BD's actions.

It's BD's actions they're criticizing. So ultimatly the blame would be on him.

The topic of the thread is the game, not BD. I don't care about the guy either. That's why I don't have to hear about him. Dislike him all you like. Just don't harras people for liking the game.

And you don't pass on any blame you hold by criticizing someone or something else.
Can you imagine? "Sir you just caused an accident!" "No, the sun was in my eyes and a cat crossed the road. It's their fault!".

BD isn't the one derailing the topic. They are. He has his own things he's guilty of, like not keeping his word. But that's the beauty of F95, it doesn't matter. The game will be on the front page of recently updated whenever it drops and we don't have to worry about anything. I don't even wanna know how many of those 3108 pages are about BD. Literally the guy who bans paying customers from his discord for saying things he doesn't want to hear. So they just do it here and bother everyone else?

Anyway, the thread turned unmoderated so the off-topic is now canon. So my position has become moot and I will leave it at that. No point trying to civilize a discussion if the mods have given up on it. So I will go and... not worry about anything and wait for the update to drop. Cheers!

 

[Akabakka]

It's not even that deep . We mostly got this situation :

- Idiot A "this part of the game sux" or "the game sux"
- Idiot B "the Dev is trash , because" or "The dev is a liar/grifter because ..."
- Idiot C "i disagree with Idiot A and B , because ..."
- Idiot D "I like the game" or "I like this part of the game"
- Idiot E "the Dev is good because ..."
- Idiot F "why are you complaining , stop annoying me" or "you're just haters"
- Idiot G "You're parasites and leeches , shut up"


A to E are actually discussing the game and the dev , even if it's skewed toward a direction some don't like or agree with .
F , and G , if you don't get what's wrong here , there is nothing else to discuss .

 

[Goopgoop]

I will also add no. I don't feel taunted by you. And no i don't care. Yes I commented that doesn't mean I care that just means I have too much spare time.

Okay, so you don't feel taunted but you're complaining about me taunting people? Gotcha. Anyway the thread is un-moderated now, so do whatever you want buddy. Don't let me stop you from wasting your time and souring the mood. Someone already explained how to unsubscribe from threads so I'm gonna go sit outside and enjoy the sun.

 

[Goopgoop]

It's not even that deep . We mostly got this situation :

- Idiot A "this part of the game sux" or "the game sux"
- Idiot B "the Dev is trash , because" or "The dev is a liar/grifter because ..."
- Idiot C "i disagree with Idiot A and B , because ..."
- Idiot D "I like the game" or "I like this part of the game"
- Idiot E "the Dev is good because ..."
- Idiot F "why are you complaining , stop annoying me" or "you're just haters"
- Idiot G "You're parasites and leeches , shut up"


A to E are actually discussing the game and the dev , even if it's skewed toward a direction some don't like or agree with .
F and G , if you don't get what's wrong here , there is nothing else to discuss .

Pretty accurate summary.

 

[Thamn]

Aight, so it's an even bigger game. All the more reason not to underestimate how much work that really is.

Yep. 3000 a year is a good average given the quality. I prefer that over games that rush releases where the release quality is significantly lower. In any kind of software project, there's always going to be a trade-off between speed, quantity and quality. This is the mix you get with BD.

As for expectations, I think we just fundamentally disagree about how to control our own, or how to respond to things we don't like. BD is an OCD dev with bad planning and communication skills (not really an uncommon combination when it comes to software engineers and animators). That was made apparently pretty early on. He can make any kind of prediction he wants and I'll take it with a saltshaker. You call it lies, I call it a guy continuously overestimating how fast things will get done to a level he's okay with. Either way it's a subjective judgement and the reality is probably a bit of both.

What it boils down to is that if his predictions are sh*t but his output is still a good average, then there isn't a real problem. It's like complaining that a bus driver isn't driving 130 kph because the bus has been delayed. I'm the kind of guy to just look out the window and enjoy the ride. I can't really relate to seeing excuses as content.

This is probably the first time I comment on this thread, I just saw you had a very skewed perception of the size of the game and, since I was already commenting to correct it, took the opportunity to provide you with context as for why the thread is what it is right now. I personally don't see the point in complaining either but there's no denying that BD brought this upon himself and there's nothing subjective about the lies I was referring to, missing this deadline by half a year is just the current catalyst.

I suggest you take a page out of your own book and read my comment without the negative confrontational lens you appear to be looking through. All I did was provide information that actually supports your view and you managed to see a fundamental disagreement. This time I do disagree with you on the lack of importance of predictions when money is predicated on them because that's called a scam, whether it's intentional or through ineptitude. Many people here were supporters for a long time and many were banned, if they weren't on this forum they'd have no access to content for which they already paid more than a AAA game costs. If you subscribed to Prime to watch the Fallout series and they removed it before you finished watching I'm sure you wouldn't be very happy either. Of course that doesn't mean they should let it affect their wellbeing, no one here is making that claim, they're mostly goofing around while making sure newcomers know not to trust the promises and keeping BD accountable.

And one thing I noticed you talking about, if people are still here after all the development mess it's safe to assume most of them like the game and want to see it finished or at least did at some point, you're preaching to the choir, they just don't believe the priest anymore.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Okay, so you don't feel taunted but you're complaining about me taunting people? Gotcha. Anyway the thread is un-moderated now, so do whatever you want buddy. Don't let me stop you from wasting your time and souring the mood. Someone already explained how to unsubscribe from threads so I'm gonna go sit outside and enjoy the sun.

Oh one of those types of responses. An attempt to taunt. Adorable again don't care. Enjoy the sun. I will happily sit here wasting my time and the only mood being soured appears to be yours as I am in wonderful spirits lately. But please continue to attempt the taunts. Just proves you don't have the IQ to properly debate the point of the matter and that is perfectly fine. Also I never said anything about you taunting til this post. Maybe learn to actually read comments? Or don't I really don't give a flying fuck. Lol. Anyways back to my music making.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

This is probably the first time I comment on this thread, I just saw you had a very skewed perception of the size of the game and, since I was already commenting to correct it, took the opportunity to provide you with context as for why the thread is what it is right now. I personally don't see the point in complaining either but there's no denying that BD brought this upon himself and there's nothing subjective about the lies I was referring to, missing this deadline by half a year is just the current catalyst.

I suggest you take a page out of your own book and read my comment without the negative confrontational lens you appear to be looking through. All I did was provide information that actually supports your view and you managed to see a fundamental disagreement. This time I do disagree with you on the lack of importance of predictions when money is predicated on them because that's called a scam, whether it's intentional or through ineptitude. Many people here were supporters for a long time and many were banned, if they weren't on this forum they'd have no access to content for which they already paid more than a AAA game costs. If you subscribed to Prime to watch the Fallout series and they removed it before you finished watching I'm sure you wouldn't be very happy either. Of course that doesn't mean they should let it affect their wellbeing, no one here is making that claim, they're mostly goofing around while making sure newcomers know not to trust the promises and keeping BD accountable.

And one thing I noticed you talking about, if people are still here after all the development mess it's safe to assume most of them like the game and want to see it finished or at least did at some point, you're preaching to the choir, they just don't believe the priest anymore.

This. Simply this. Especially that last bit. I do love this game and I do keep playing it. I am here for every update even the trash ones. I don't support BD's choices, excuses or lies but I will continue to play this game til its completed or abandoned. Either way.

 

[ShatteredEnigma616]

Okay, so you don't feel taunted but you're complaining about me taunting people? Gotcha. Anyway the thread is un-moderated now, so do whatever you want buddy. Don't let me stop you from wasting your time and souring the mood. Someone already explained how to unsubscribe from threads so I'm gonna go sit outside and enjoy the sun.

No one that I know of has an issue with you liking the game. More power to you. Personally the only issue I have and the only issue I see from people towards you is that you are passively aggressively taunting people. That is your own fault. And if you taunt a mothafucka verbally you are probably gonna get smacked verbally by a mothafucka. Give and take my friend. Give and take. Also you are going back and forth on whether you are defending or disliking the dev and thats a very two faced way of doing things. In one comment you are defending them wholeheartedly in the next you are claiming you couldn't care less about them.

 

[Akabakka]

somehow I'm still getting dogpiled by the haters for trying to insert some chill-out-it's-just-a-game vibes into the already-ongoing discussion.

Yeah ..no . Let's be blunt , you've been "hiding" under long paragraphs some hefty passive aggressive and disparaging remarks . There hasn't been a lot of attempt of chillin' stuff on your behalf , you know it and we saw it . it wasn't anything crafty . You went as far as inserting intent behind and into people's comments , as it suited your narrative . Even accusing at least one of jealousy , instead of sticking to the topic . Then you wanted to discussion Mods and regulation when it did not go your way

Were you polite ? Sure I'd bet , all the time or at least 99% of it , but you can't remove the stench of condescension and the patronizing . You were looking for those fights with some of those people . Now did a few incoherent rabid ones outright attacked you ? I'll bet , but you weren't even interacting and having those back and forth with them .

Now I'm done with you as a a topic , and will go back to just discussing the game and BD with whomever wants to , similar opinions or not , without pretense and BS .