Unreal Engine You know what they say, "If you want something done right, do it yourself"

[Lancelotsan]

By the way. If you need the 3d artist, I think this guy will useful to you:

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He make and sale his 3d model with very cheap price. The 3d model be created for Unreal engine, and even have bone to creat animation.

I think you can buy/use his 3d models for your demo game. If your game really gain good favour from everyone, you can ask directly him to join you.

Hope this useful to you. ^^

 

[VL4DST3R]

By the way. If you need the 3d artist, I think this guy will useful to you:

I think you can buy/use his 3d models for your demo game. If your game really gain good favour from everyone, you can ask directly him to join you.

Hope this useful to you. ^^

Impressive, and again this also brings up another topic we're still not very sure how to handle...
Deciding on a particular stile and assets will be a huge thing to focus on, and as i mentioned, we are mostly coders, with only me trying my hand at more artsy stuff. That doesn't mean i can pull anything anywhere CLOSE to what this guy can do, and for a porn game, this is extra important, at least when it comes to the human models, which you will be spending most of your time staring at.

That being said, our budget is literally 0 right now, and we first need to invest our own money in some hardware to handle this project properly as a team. I do hope that eventually we'll reach a point where we have the funds to hire such talent, but i fear that's a long way off at the moment.

 

[Lancelotsan]

everyone have their own trouble. We just can hope our morale high enough to lead us throught all these trouble. ^^'

I remember when I studied English during Middle School. My brain total refused English until I play Final Fantasy X. That game's story excited me that I began want to study English. And I get the high grade just after two months ( actually I can study English, but I refuse to study it.).

--------------------------------
By the way, hope you don't mind if I ask you some question:

- May be it just my imagination, but look like very many people use Unreal to make their Porn game? Why? I know Unreal's graphic quality is better than Unity. But that is the only reason? Isn't Unity more easier to coders - someone said that? I remember even Illusion use Unity ( Honey Select, Playclub, Playhome),too.

 

[VL4DST3R]

Heh, i remember asking myself the same question some time ago, and when trying to look up what are the differences, i stumbled over

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, which i feel points most arguments out better than i ever could.

To address your specific points, first, i really wish this was the case (more people using unreal vs unity) but from what ive seen, that's not really the case. You can confirm this yourself by checking how many Unreal vs Unity tags are here on the forum. Then, the graphics are absolutely stunning right out of the box wiht Unreal, a thing which for a porn game aiming for realism like this one, is very important. The language used is indeed different, C++ for Unreal vs C# for Unity, but this again comes to personal preference. For me (and by extension us) Unreal's interface and toolset is by far the most enjoyable and versatile (but also more complex) to work with between the two. Where in Unity it's quite simplistic in complexity but also when it comes to what can you do without purchasing plugins or writing your own custom stuff.

From the amazing Blueprint system that personally made me fall in love with the engine a long time ago, to the awesome updates and content that the engine receives that bring new post processing effects, shaders like sub-surface scattering or new functionality, like fancy physics interactions, cloth and hair simulation, etc. Unreal by far outmatches Unity in my eyes.
Maybe an analogy could be made between Unity and Unreal comparing them to Paint.net and Photoshop. While one is easier to understand and work with, it also limits what you fundamentally can do with it without external help, whereas Photoshop is a titan of a program to grasp, but once you do, it is a lot more versatile in what you can do with it, out of the box. Fun fact: i do love Paint.net a lot more than Photoshop for editing ;P

My friend also wanted to add this (he doesn't have an account so I'm posting for him):

C# is not made for making games. Its a python like abstraction level language. Aka tons of frameworks and overhead to work through abstractions resulting in high performance impact and without constant and thorough unit testing(which is also overhead) it is a pain to optimize.
Bottom line is if u want it fast and modular - c#
If u want fps and not a ppt game c++ is the industry standard
+unity doesnt support blueprints which have also been nativized in unreal
Which speed up development and scalability a lot
So yeah c# is great but for tools and frameworks... Not for games.

In the end, I think many people prefer Unity because there are already a lot of projects and resources available made in it and also quite a large community around it. I think it's just people's inertia at play here. Not to say Unreal doesn't have plenty tutorials about every aspect of game design using it, or that it doesn't have a very solid documentation, but i think the whole "lead by example" thing applies here.

 

[NoxAeternae]

I completely agree with Kinderalpha. I think the reason to play an adult game instead of just watching porn is that it allows you to participate in the world and connect to the characters. I kind of understand why you would want to focus on gameplay first but in my opinion a game that has no narrative/story/world-building is just a simulation and maybe it's just me but honestly those games are the most boring shit ever. The only adult games that I remember after playing/ play more than once are the ones that capture my imagination and let me connect to the world and the characters. For example, I think both Noxian Nights and Kingdom of Deception from Hreinn are really good games. I've played both multiple times and while I love the porn in it, I think I would've played them even if they had no porn because that's how good the writing is in those games imo. Perhaps we are different kinds of gamers that play for different reasons but that's my two cents. Good luck on your endeavor!

 

[Lancelotsan]

don't worry.
Under my view, the skill is more important than the money. If you have skill, you can made money with your skill. Making the game need coders, artist, soundtrack,... But now you know atleast one part among it.

Compare to me. I can save much of money. But if I just recruit everyone to make everything, I will soon use up all of my money.

Not only that, I can't just recruit someone to creat something I don't really understand it. If I recruit a coder to make the gameplay for me, or even if any coder want to help me free, how can I test when he give the completed version to me?

-----------------------------

Don't too worry about artist. We can find much of skillful artist on internet now. Many of them ready to help you, or sell their 3d model to you with the cheap price. It just because the world is too huge, and we don't know where they are now. I almost don't believe in my eyes when I found that guy artist,too.You can find free Soundtrack, sound effect and game icon one opengameart.org and game-icon, too.

The trouble is you have to show that you are really serious and can lead the project to the end. If you can creat the demo version, and it is interesting/serious enough. Everyone will help you.

Say the truth, I think the coder is most difficult part in making the game. I actually never seen or talking with any coder before you on Internet.

^^

----------------------
Some hardware information, may be it will gain your morale ^^: That artist actually use this PC to creat his 3d model:
CPU: i7-4790k
RAM: DDR3 16gb
GTX 980
SSD: 1TB

Today, its price around somewhere 500-600$. It is actually cheap when compare to another artist I know. He is creating his 3d Porn comic ( 4k resolution) on patreon. And his PC's around 3000-4000$ with many SSD, HDD, 2xGTX1080 and 32gb DDR4. ANd that PC still very slow sometime..

That is the first time I created my funny sentence: " just the poor play video game, the wealthy guy will make game or 4k Porn comic.". ^^"

 

[VL4DST3R]

The only adult games that I remember after playing/ play more than once are the ones that capture my imagination and let me connect to the world and the characters.

Even if the sotry is well written and lets you connect to its world and characters, would you play a liniar story that you know the outcome of more than once, with any degree of regularity, if there was no other game element to explore? Emphasis on regularity, as we all have our classics that we want to revisit every year or so, but i figured a good porn game is one you'd want to revisit every time you want to nut.

I've played both multiple times and while I love the porn in it, I think I would've played them even if they had no porn because that's how good the writing is in those games imo. Perhaps we are different kinds of gamers that play for different reasons but that's my two cents. Good luck on your endeavor!

But wouldn't that just be a generic non-h game? This again reinforces the trend i noticed where it seems that people here tend to defer the porn aspect of the game as secondary to classical game elements? But i cant help but always think: isn't this what most scummy porn game devs do? Release a generic fighter/rpg/vn which is essentially a "sfw" game and slap some titties at the end and call it porn to make it more interesting and sell better? This also baffles me a bit as I figured the normal market had more than enough great games to play for their story and gameplay alone.

Don't get me wrong, I've played some exceptional porn games just for their story and characters alone (katawa shoujo comes the strongest to mind), but that's the idea: even if technically a porn game, i never went in expecting a feast-for-the-eyes sex scene, but an amazing narative. I honestly started with the presumption that people came here looking mainly for the first, and i hoped this is the aspect i could improve in my delivery: to be able to break the norm of still images and mac-n-cheese sounds in the background and instead offer something more interactive, in real-time, basically a feast for the eyes. Something similar to Fallen Doll, but a bit more interactive than a set of hard-coded animations and poses.

 

[VL4DST3R]

Compare to me. I can save much of money. But if I just recruit everyone to make everything, I will soon use up all of my money.

Let me start by quoting you and saying don't worry about that that's just a problem of knowing how much, when and in what to invest your money. With a bit of planning and foresight you can totally pull something like that off as long as you don't bite more than you can chew.

Not only that, I can't just recruit someone to creat something I don't really understand it. If I recruit a coder to make the gameplay for me, or even if any coder want to help me free, how can I test when he give the completed version to me?

When it comes to games you can't really fake implementing something, as it will immediately show if done improperly or not done at all .
Also, given that the project he'll be working on is supposedly your vision, don't you already have it in your mind how the game is gonna look and feel? at least in a general sense?

We've actually worked on a project before for an individual in exactly the same position as you described; not having any idea how any of it works, just describing us what he'd like to happen and letting us figure out how to do it. While indeed not ideal, with a good team you can actually pull off something like that, as long as you don't make assumptions about the amount of work they have to put in to realize your vision. It can be very easy to underestimate the effort required since you don't know first hand how to do it and what it implies.

You can find free Soundtrack, sound effect and game icon one opengameart.org and game-icon, too.

At least that, i can handle myself no problem I have a massive sound library for sfx, moans and music that I've gathered throughout the years and know where to find more. I've also been editing peoples pictures, making my own memes and logos since highschool. Now, 3D modeling, and making it look GOOD, especially for a game like this that's another thing entirely...

The trouble is you have to show that you are really serious and can lead the project to the end. If you can creat the demo version, and it is interesting/serious enough. Everyone will help you.

I am very well aware of this, as mentioned in my initial post, it's natural for people to want proof and be skeptical about new projects, especially with an overly saturated market of shit. Suffice to say, we are preparing stuff to get this thing going.

Say the truth, I think the coder is most difficult part in making the game. I actually never seen or talking with any coder before you on Internet.

^^

Aww, thanks! As i told you, i'm the more talkative one. As to difficulty, I honestly think it depends on the game. For a normal shooter/rpg i'd honestly focus on mechanics any day than modeling organic elements or people. It's an enormous amount of work, and for it to also look good you need actual talent.

Some hardware information, may be it will gain your morale ^^: That artist actually use this PC to creat his 3d model:

Both our main pcs match and are in fact a tad better in therms of performance, but when it comes to baking lighting for unreal maps, not even NASA's computers are enough and everything comes to a crawl XD

 

[NoxAeternae]

Even if the sotry is well written and lets you connect to its world and characters, would you play a liniar story that you know the outcome of more than once, with any degree of regularity, if there was no other game element to explore? Emphasis on regularity, as we all have our classics that we want to revisit every year or so, but i figured a good porn game is one you'd want to revisit every time you want to nut.

Let me list some of the sfw game types that people play on a regular basis: mmos, competitive games(card games, rts, shooter etc.), games with near infinite/self determined progression (harvest moon, minecraft etc.) They all have different things going for them that makes them highly replayable but I can't imagine an adult game that does the same. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. For example how would you make an adult game competitive or social or have infinite progression?

...but i figured a good porn game is one you'd want to revisit every time you want to nut.

I think this is where we disagree. It seems to me the most important thing in porn is novelty. That's why people develop fetishes, get interested in different "plays" over time. I can't ever imagine myself going to the same game over and over when there are newer games coming out all the time.

I think the reason why sex feels like something slapped on for adult games is because it is treated as a reward for playing the game. It isn't the game itself. But honestly I don't see how you could turn the actual sex into a mechanic and make it a part of the game, I've seen games try this but always without success.

I honestly started with the presumption that people came here looking mainly for the first...

I'm not sure how correct that assumption is. There are amazing 2D and 3D animations/CG's everywhere and the reason we are here looking for games instead of those suggests to me that most people are mainly looking for something other than a feast for the eyes. Context is incredibly important when it comes to sex, that's why so many fetishes/fantasies don't even have a lot to do with the actual act of sex.

I'm not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it and I don't want to discourage you, please don't take it that way. This is all my opinion and maybe I'm wrong or in the minority but I'd hate for you to spend so much time, effort and money into something you are passionate about and then realize you were going after the wrong things.

 

[Lancelotsan]

I don't know why everyone begin to discuss about the gameplay/story.

I think everyone in here agree that the Porn game still need the gameplay/story instead just sex-animation. The only thing we still discuss is " how much serious gameplay/story we should make for the Porn game." and " the role of the gameplay/story in the Porn game.".

Actually, I think almost of your idea don't really against anyone in this topic, until now.
Just " a Porn game which we love to replay its gameplay/story, even when it not include Porn elements". I think it is too much for the Porn game.

-------------------------

Let me list some of the sfw game types that people play on a regular basis: mmos, competitive games(card games, rts, shooter etc.), games with near infinite/self determined progression (harvest moon, minecraft etc.) They all have different things going for them that makes them highly replayable but I can't imagine an adult game that does the same. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. For example how would you make an adult game competitive or social or have infinite progression?

Actually. You can find much of Japan's eroge game which include the huge gameplay/story. Even some lewd game " a pervent main character in his journey to rape and rape any girl around him." ( which will less serious than the Visual Novel about highschool's love story.) actually have good story or gameplay enough to make us erect.

Do you played and read:
- Story:
+ Kuroinu 2
+ Guilty studio's game.
- Gameplay: Eushully game
+ 魔導巧殻 ～闇の月女神は導国で詠う～
+ 天秤のLa DEA。 ～戦女神MEMORIA～
+ 幻燐の姫将軍II～導かれし魂の系譜～

Say the truth, whenever I playing Eushully game, I always question myself " I just came her for Porn. Gameplay is good, but why they have to creat too serious gameplay like this???"

 

[DawnCry]

Say the truth, whenever I playing Eushully game, I always question myself " I just came her for Porn. Gameplay is good, but why they have to creat too serious gameplay like this???"

I'm the opposite, I like that type of gameplay, my favourite Eushully game was kamidori alchemy meister and I didn't have any problem with it.

Overall it's just a preference, I would love to have a game like the witcher 3 with porn in it rather than soft scenes.

The same that I would like with other games like harvest moon.

 

[Lancelotsan]

I'm not play much of Eushully's RPG game. But did you play their Turn Based Strategy game?

The 魔導巧殻 ～闇の月女神は導国で詠う～ is more difficult gameplay than even Fire Emblem, follow my feeling.

If we really need the serious gameplay, I think something like Sengoku Rance is enough. The gameplay is fun, people can enjoy it beside the Porn elements. However, the huge gameplay with the wall of numbers and texts ???

I think our discussion can be solved if we can answer the question: " the role of the gameplay/story in the Porn game."?

- > With me:

The story and gameplay just help to explain the heroines’ character ( and connect the player to them), or make the player feel “ oh, I try so hard to capture this heroine. Now, I will “ enjoy” her so much to punish her about that.”.

and what are your answer?

 

[Kinderalpha]

Let me list some of the sfw game types that people play on a regular basis: mmos, competitive games(card games, rts, shooter etc.), games with near infinite/self determined progression (harvest moon, minecraft etc.) They all have different things going for them that makes them highly replayable but I can't imagine an adult game that does the same. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. For example how would you make an adult game competitive or social or have infinite progression?

I think this is where we disagree. It seems to me the most important thing in porn is novelty. That's why people develop fetishes, get interested in different "plays" over time. I can't ever imagine myself going to the same game over and over when there are newer games coming out all the time.

I think the reason why sex feels like something slapped on for adult games is because it is treated as a reward for playing the game. It isn't the game itself. But honestly I don't see how you could turn the actual sex into a mechanic and make it a part of the game, I've seen games try this but always without success.

These are some of the goals I'm experimenting with on my current project, and I agree with everything you wrote. Novelty is something that kinda scares me because my goal is to create a game that does feel like home, and can be picked up and played multiple times. However, just like you said, it's hard to imagine creating an adult game that is replayable where the novelty doesn't wear off. I don't think any visual novel can achieve this, outside offering separate routes. Once you've seen all the routes, you're done with the game until content updates. I think this is what drives people who are monetarily focused to pump out multiple games rather then focus on one large game. Because they're following the rule of novelty.

So my approach to novelty is to create a game that has an overlapping mixture of content that is decoupled instead of linearly delivered. This allows the player to freely experience different scenarios and fetishes each playthrough. Maybe the first playthrough you want a lot of blowjob content, but the next you wanna focus on voyeur or exhibition. My method of delivery ensures you only experience what you want, instead of it being a pipeline. An example, in a novel your goals are more linear. You want to have sex with somebody, and whatever scenes have been built for that interaction is what you get to see. It's not modular, it's not decoupled. Once you see that scene, you know how it will play out each time. You also know how the progression will proceed up to that point. I think by now it's clear that to tackle this problem of novelty, the game design needs to break away from visual novels.

On your point of turning actual sex into a mechanic. This required a lot of thought for my project and I've taken some notes from other games that have approached this topic too. I look at this as a pendulum. You can either swing completely to the left, where your mechanics are solely independent of the adult content, and the adult content is sort of flavor, or a reward for overcoming mechanics. Then you have the far right where the mechanics are built around sexual interaction, and you're now into simulation territory where there isn't much gameplay outside of interacting in the scene. My approach to this is a balance in the middle, maintaining an immergent gameplay where transitions left to right are seamless. That way you don't feel like (this) part of the game you're playing something that is SFW then suddenly you reach (this other) part of the game where you're rewarded with adult content. I don't want to force the player to mentally switch between 'horny brain' and 'logic brain'. This creates an "argument" in the players head whether they should be horny or be focusing on important decisions. I want the player to decide for themselves what head space they want to approach the game with.

I'm on my phone or else I'd go in more depth. You have some great points and my discord is kinderalpha#6818 if you wanna continue this discussion outside of the forums. I just wanna pose the question to you; do you think it's a design problem that can be fixed or do you think porn games should adhere to the rule of novelty, therefore quantity is better than quality and replayability.

 

[NoxAeternae]

*snip*

I don't want to hijack VL4DST3R's post as we're kind of getting off topic from what this post was intended to be about. I'm interested in discussing this further so I'll add you on discord.

 

[VL4DST3R]

For example how would you make an adult game competitive or social or have infinite progression?

Indeed, you cant really do that, but should you? Should it be social, competitive or with infinite progression? Supposedly you came to this game just to fap (as expected), wouldn't then enough clothing/animations/poses suffice for that need? Honey Select comes to mind here as a good example. You get in, set up some scenario you want to explore, clothing,personality then have at it. Is that not enough for a good (virtual) sexual experience?

I think this is where we disagree. It seems to me the most important thing in porn is novelty. That's why people develop fetishes, get interested in different "plays" over time. I can't ever imagine myself going to the same game over and over when there are newer games coming out all the time.

I'm not really sure if that's why people develop fetishes and correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding fetishes tend to come from certain life or sexual experiences, usually around puberty. While i tend to agree about novelty in porn, throughout the years i don't feel that i got interested/broadened my fetish list just because i was bored of the ones i already enjoyed, instead i further matured and discovered other subjects i was sexually interested in. But then again, maybe I'm wrong here and people think different, would really like to discuss this further!

I think the reason why sex feels like something slapped on for adult games is because it is treated as a reward for playing the game. It isn't the game itself. But honestly I don't see how you could turn the actual sex into a mechanic and make it a part of the game, I've seen games try this but always without success.

Really? Interesting. The following games are mostly focused on the sex aspect, have you played them and if so, what's your oppinion about them as games?
Xstory, HoneySelect, The Villain Simulator, Ai Girl, Fallen Doll and by extension its sequel Paralogue, The Klub 17.

Context is incredibly important when it comes to sex, that's why so many fetishes/fantasies don't even have a lot to do with the actual act of sex.

This is indeed something I'm still trying to evaluate how much its desired compared to straightforward sex, that's why im asking so many questions abot it, trying to see what the majority is, because this is quite an important change in the roadmap and design we outlined for the game (if it wasn't obvious by now, that being less focus on story, more on mechanics)

I'm not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it and I don't want to discourage you, please don't take it that way. This is all my opinion and maybe I'm wrong or in the minority but I'd hate for you to spend so much time, effort and money into something you are passionate about and then realize you were going after the wrong things.

Please! don't take my replies the wrong way! I'm not trying to be defensive of my points here, and i tried to make that clear pointing out that I'm not assuming in any way that I'm definitely right about any of the points i made throughout this thread, and even if thought i was, that's would be at best my subjective view about porn games, not everyone else's. I came here to get exactly that, an outside opinion of (hopefully) as many people as possible) and your replies are very much appreciated! Why I'm doubling down on some points is because I'm trying to get to the arguments that made you choose one versus the other, i would have asked you the same questions even if you pointed towards wanting just a brain-dead doll just to fuck.

I really appreciate your genuine concern about it all ^.^ thank you, it means a lot to me.

 

[VL4DST3R]

Do you played and read:
- Story:
+ Kuroinu 2
+ Guilty studio's game.
- Gameplay: Eushully game
+ 魔導巧殻 ～闇の月女神は導国で詠う～
+ 天秤のLa DEA。 ～戦女神MEMORIA～
+ 幻燐の姫将軍II～導かれし魂の系譜～

I don't mean to intervene, but do keep in mind i'm trying to focus on the 3d porn game scene exclusively (or as much as possible) when giving or using references/examples.

 

[VL4DST3R]

-snip-

Again not meaning to intervene between you two, just wanted to point out that your analysis about novelty and replayability and how it can be done properly in such a game was most impressive. I tend to agree with pretty much all of your points.

Good luck with your game!

 

[Kinderalpha]

Again not meaning to intervene between you two, just wanted to point out that your analysis about novelty and replayability and how it can be done properly in such a game was most impressive. I tend to agree with pretty much all of your points.

Good luck with your game!

Haha thanks, it's one thing to talk and theorize stuff, it's another to actually go through with it. I was just hoping to shed some light on the subject and hopefully bring some points to your attention. Ultimately I think it boils down to the audience you want capture and why you want them to play your game.

 

[NoxAeternae]

You get in, set up some scenario you want to explore, clothing,personality then have at it. Is that not enough for a good (virtual) sexual experience?

Not for me no. I would just try out all the poses/positions that interest me and then it would become boring again.

I'm not really sure if that's why people develop fetishes and correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding fetishes tend to come from certain life or sexual experiences, usually around puberty. While i tend to agree about novelty in porn, throughout the years i don't feel that i got interested/broadened my fetish list just because i was bored of the ones i already enjoyed, instead i further matured and discovered other subjects i was sexually interested in. But then again, maybe I'm wrong here and people think different, would really like to discuss this further!

I think I worded that poorly. I meant more like how after you've done something for a long time you want to try new things to excite you. You don't necessarily get tired of the old ones but you know, like spicing things up.

Really? Interesting. The following games are mostly focused on the sex aspect, have you played them and if so, what's your oppinion about them as games?
Xstory, HoneySelect, The Villain Simulator, Ai Girl, Fallen Doll and by extension its sequel Paralogue, The Klub 17.

You must be registered to see the links

This definition of a game is not perfect but I think it makes a lot of good points. I have not played the games you've listed but I know a few of them. From what I understand (I could be dead wrong), I wouldn't call them games. They are more like toys with which you play instead of playing "them". I'm not saying this to bash them, it's just that I have no interest in those so maybe I'm not the audience you are trying to capture.

 

[Cul]

Not for me no. I would just try out all the poses/positions that interest me and then it would become boring again.

Hah, I think I would agree. Have not thought about reinstalling Honey Select, while I've reinstalled AA2 a few times over the years hah, just to let some scenarios play out (oh hey these two became lesbians, let's play as one of them!).

If there was a "most important thing," I do think it's "agency." The girl is not a mindless doll, and she can "decide" what she's doing (at least in your eyes). So this idea dies in a game where you choose someone and immediately do lewd things. It would maybe fall under "the user doesn't really knows what he wants." Some users don't really want "sex," they want to feel, like it means something.

And I'd guess, the Japanese are ahead on understanding / exploiting that, because they've had to deal with young men being alone for a while longer.