VN Ren'Py It's Just A Game [v0.1.1] [DigiDec]

[Axelfire]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

There's a statistic that I have to fact-check every time I see about how 54% of adult Americans read at or below a 6th-grade level, which for reference is Harry Potter/Nancy Drew/Goosebumps. I think it's pretty safe to assume that people who play games like this one are reading at a much higher level than that but I also think most games like this one are very straightforward and blunt with the writing. Also, English might not be a player's first language which could complicate things a little.

I've mostly been thinking about Ness and some of the reactions to her/the MC's situation. I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading. Now obviously there's not a lot of game out yet so there's still plenty of time for people to adjust expectations and having some surprises and twists in the story is fun. But I also don't want the audience to feel that the surprises/twists are unearned, arbitrary, or contrived. I don't think we'll be able to determine if I'm doing it right for another update or two but any early thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

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*I originally was going to have the characters control basically every electronic device with the implant but it ended up looking real dumb. Imagine if every time someone was fiddling with their phone or using a computer I had just used an image of them staring off into space.

not to eco the awnser of a previous user, but either assume us to be retarded or verry dumb, it's not uncommon for player to play games with the skip unsees dialogue option in the frist time, so in many ways the yuo are in an uphill battle people not getting stuff from even the most vaunted story centric games is a common occurance.

that said I have 2 recommendations: 1: copy eternum, it's another game on the site, quite high-rated too, and it has a similar concept of "virtual worlds" tough it goes in a radically diferent direction, in short what they to is they make jumping into the simulation a bit of fanfare, with specialist suits and the works, so giving jumping into the sims a bit lead up would help.

2: boot up sequence, basicaly when ever the mc/character goes in to a sim, have a sort of systems check, point out the company owns the sims, the nature of the sim and so on and so forth, this could be done at least once with every character to introduce the player to say the moms sim, or if done in a very subtle and quick manner, every time the mc joins their sim ( the absence of this boot-up sequence could later be used to enphasize the blurring of the lines with the sim and reality).

 

[Canto Forte]

This game is fun and it promotes some great themes looking to disconcert players from reality. In this perspective, it is a good game and it has good rollercoaster rides in there: where we players get swept off of our feet and loose our bearings.

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[Axelfire]

also a thing that needs to be mentioned, is that this game is recent and short, most players wont be verry invested in a game they perceive will be abandoned (the comon fate of all, 0.1 games in this site) so the longer the game goes onw, the bigger the version number and higher quntity of changelogs, the player hoping in the game will come with different expectations, in otherwords, the more people feel there is something to be invested in, the more they will be invested. the most extreme example of this being superhuman, a game whose thread has been repeatedly purged due to run-away theorycrafting on the lore of the game. so high level engagement is possible, it just takes time and effort.

 

[DigiDec]

not to eco the awnser of a previous user, but either assume us to be retarded or verry dumb, it's not uncommon for player to play games with the skip unsees dialogue option in the frist time, so in many ways the yuo are in an uphill battle people not getting stuff from even the most vaunted story centric games is a common occurance.

that said I have 2 recommendations: 1: copy eternum, it's another game on the site, quite high-rated too, and it has a similar concept of "virtual worlds" tough it goes in a radically diferent direction, in short what they to is they make jumping into the simulation a bit of fanfare, with specialist suits and the works, so giving jumping into the sims a bit lead up would help.

2: boot up sequence, basicaly when ever the mc/character goes in to a sim, have a sort of systems check, point out the company owns the sims, the nature of the sim and so on and so forth, this could be done at least once with every character to introduce the player to say the moms sim, or if done in a very subtle and quick manner, every time the mc joins their sim ( the absence of this boot-up sequence could later be used to enphasize the blurring of the lines with the sim and reality).

Who amongst us has not, on occasion, skipped through over half a game just to get to the good bits. I know I've been guilty of it a few times at least. Sometimes you want to see if the juice is worth the squeeze before reading an intricately written world building essay. There's a fine line to walk between keeping your players in the dark too much and information overload. Especially, as you point out in your next comment, with how many games only survive 1 or 2 updates before being abandoned. I figure I have to make it to at least 0.4 before I start making any major judgements about how this game is doing.

I gave a quick look at Eternum to see what you meant. You're absolutely right about similar concepts/different directions, at least as best as I could tell after skipping most of the dialogue to get to the VR bit. I don't want to add additional hardware for the users but I will give some thought to the bootup sequence idea. I am actually trying to avoid major visual signifiers because of where the game is going. I don't want to set something up just to throw it out and lead to further confusion.

This game is fun and it promotes some great themes looking to disconcert players from reality. In this perspective, it is a good game and it has good rollercoaster rides in there: where we players get swept off of our feet and loose our bearings.

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I'm glad I could clear things up some. I think you would've figured it all out in the next update when you start to see/interact with some of these characters more, but I didn't want to tell you to wait-and-see and have you feel like I was just stringing you along. I just mentioned in my response to the other commenter that I'm going to give some thought to some kind of obvious visual transition into the sims and I think there's a scene I'm working on right now with Qai and the Mc that I could turn into a little bit of a data dump.

One thing to note though is that there's going to be way more content taking place in the real world than in the sims. We've got probably 3 trips into the sims for Nat/Mol/Sara each and 1 or 2 other trips involving different characters. Those numbers are subject to change if the pacing starts to feel off but it should give you an idea of how much planned content they'll cover. I mostly just need the players to get a feel for some of the ground rules so they don't think I'm making everything* up as I go along when things start to change.

Thanks again for the feedback, everyone. The previous question is still open if anyone else has input. In the meantime here's another render.

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*99% is technically not everything

 

[Raksha17]

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

Let's label them 1 - 5 for simplicity.

Regarding 2-4:
Those felt obvious to me.

Regarding 5:
While not blatantly obvious there must be more than the headset to it as people are shown to be unresponsive while in a sim.

Regarding 1:
As of now it also seems to be handled inconsistently by the sims system.
The first time he spontaneously enters his GF's Sim he recognizes her and vice versa.The GF uses his name to address him in the situation so the sim reverts to a state before that point of a "real" memory flooding in. But the first meeting with Qai does not once his memory of the AI (or all his real ones) become present to the MC.

On the "technical" side:
This also feels strange to me as a concept in general. How are "real" memories kept seperate from the sim ones because (2) states you remember once out of the sim? I assume your intent is to put that responsibility onto the implant that is so far implied but not explicitly mentioned. Being under that assumption still leaves the question are memories of different sims seperate sets or are they all available. The latter seems to be implied as the transfer into his GF's sim did not make the MC forget about Qai if the memory sets were different he should not know anybody present as a different sets has to be loaded/available based on sim. The problem with that would be that in the sims you could infer that you are in a sims because you have access to multiple sims memories (assuming you entered a least two different ones). Given him entering the sim was different than normal but some kind of communication with the sever has to occour and one would "hope" the system would "make sure" the player has the correct memories loaded.

It also presents the complication of the MC being supposed to experiment stuff in other's sims but would not know anything about that once he entered a different persons sim because it is part of his "real" memories.

 

[gregers]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

Haven't played in a while, but from memory:

(1), (2) and (4) seemed reasonably clear. Bullet (1) was made clearer with the reworked intro, but it might be good to have the point come up 'naturally' in some conversation or other in the next update. Possibly (2) as well. (4) was clear from the three very distinct sims conforming to video game clichés.

(3) seemed likely from context without the exact ownership and operation being made overly explicit. We certainly see Qoniv having a large part in distributing and controlling the sims, but you have room to finesse the finer detail down the line if it becomes relevant.

I think (5) came up once or twice, at least with some mentions of an implant, but could be clearer.

I'm not consumed with desire to learn more, but imagine some of the details will become important as the story progresses. Fudging the stuff that isn't key to the story is fine.

EDIT: Oh, but if (2) was the absolute rule, shouldn't Nat remember the MC and Qai crashing her sim? It's currently just written off as "she's forgotten or believes it was a dream."

I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading.

Maybe, but that's all we as players have to judge her on so far. There's no indication that she's anything other than her first impression.

This is not (necessarily) a bad thing. It's fine to revise an opinion as we get to know her better. Just keep in mind that you as the dev/writer know the characters much more fully than we do: Ness may become the fan favourite by chapter 8, but all we as players know is what we've seen of her in 0.1.1. This is only a problem if the initial impression is so poor it turns the player away from her completely so any later 'redemption' never gets a chance.

 

[DigiDec]

Let's label them 1 - 5 for simplicity.

Regarding 2-4:
Those felt obvious to me.

Regarding 5:
While not blatantly obvious there must be more than the headset to it as people are shown to be unresponsive while in a sim.

Regarding 1:
As of now it also seems to be handled inconsistently by the sims system.
The first time he spontaneously enters his GF's Sim he recognizes her and vice versa.The GF uses his name to address him in the situation so the sim reverts to a state before that point of a "real" memory flooding in. But the first meeting with Qai does not once his memory of the AI (or all his real ones) become present to the MC.

On the "technical" side:
This also feels strange to me as a concept in general. How are "real" memories kept seperate from the sim ones because (2) states you remember once out of the sim? I assume your intent is to put that responsibility onto the implant that is so far implied but not explicitly mentioned. Being under that assumption still leaves the question are memories of different sims seperate sets or are they all available. The latter seems to be implied as the transfer into his GF's sim did not make the MC forget about Qai if the memory sets were different he should not know anybody present as a different sets has to be loaded/available based on sim. The problem with that would be that in the sims you could infer that you are in a sims because you have access to multiple sims memories (assuming you entered a least two different ones). Given him entering the sim was different than normal but some kind of communication with the sever has to occour and one would "hope" the system would "make sure" the player has the correct memories loaded.

It also presents the complication of the MC being supposed to experiment stuff in other's sims but would not know anything about that once he entered a different persons sim because it is part of his "real" memories.

It is only referenced a couple of times in the text of the game but aside from allowing the MC to share a sim with someone Qai is also preventing the sim from suppressing his real memories. That's something that probably deserves to get highlighted again for the next simulation scene.

As far as "how" it works, I'm a porn game dev, not a doctor. The game sort of references it during the opening sequence with the "OVERRIDE - NO LOOP - SUPPRESS." popping up every time a "real world" thought occurs to the MC. The sequence with Nat in her sim shows what happens when the sim decides it needs to loop back to preserve the narrative. The idea is that if something appears/happens that doesn't fit the narrative for that particular game the sim would do a sort of quick load to a previous state while also suppressing the user's memories of the issue. In the example we saw in the game since the MC and Qai were still there even after the little skip backwards it just threw the sim into a loop and ultimately contributed to crashing the game.

The technical specifics of how that aspect works is something I plan on staying pretty vague about since I'm not a neurologist and less information is probably better than wrong information.

Haven't played in a while, but from memory:

(1), (2) and (4) seemed reasonably clear. Bullet (1) was made clearer with the reworked intro, but it might be good to have the point come up 'naturally' in some conversation or other in the next update. Possibly (2) as well. (4) was clear from the three very distinct sims conforming to video game clichés.

(3) seemed likely from context without the exact ownership and operation being made overly explicit. We certainly see Qoniv having a large part in distributing and controlling the sims, but you have room to finesse the finer detail down the line if it becomes relevant.

I think (5) came up once or twice, at least with some mentions of an implant, but could be clearer.

I'm not consumed with desire to learn more, but imagine some of the details will become important as the story progresses. Fudging the stuff that isn't key to the story is fine.

EDIT: Oh, but if (2) was the absolute rule, shouldn't Nat remember the MC and Qai crashing her sim? It's currently just written off as "she's forgotten or believes it was a dream."




Maybe, but that's all we as players have to judge her on so far. There's no indication that she's anything other than her first impression.

This is not (necessarily) a bad thing. It's fine to revise an opinion as we get to know her better. Just keep in mind that you as the dev/writer know the characters much more fully than we do: Ness may become the fan favourite by chapter 8, but all we as players know is what we've seen of her in 0.1.1. This is only a problem if the initial impression is so poor it turns the player away from her completely so any later 'redemption' never gets a chance.

I just went back and added a little bit to the line about Nat forgetting to clear it up a bit/make it more consistent. The general idea being that Qai can keep the sim from fucking with the MC's memory but not anyone else's. This is also something I'll touch on again in the upcoming sim scene.

I didn't mean to imply that the audience is *wrong* to make certain judgements about Ness at this point, or that they're making judgements because I was unclear or their misreading things. I was just using that as an example of how if I don't explicitly explain some things players might draw their own conclusions and react strongly to those conclusions. That's okay if it doesn't completely throw them off the game or when they get new information it doesn't seem like a forced gotcha fake out. I already used up my allotted forced gotcha fake out with the opening sequence so I'm not allowed to do it again for at least 6 months.

TLDR- great feedback, I'm going to have Qai highlight some of this stuff a little in an upcoming scene and hopefully it will make things clear while also feeling natural.

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[acondo]

It's not my intention to mislead and if there was a more specific tag to use I would but for reference here is the current definition of the harem tag according to this site-

• Harem [1 person being courted by at least 3 others, all engaging in consensual sex simultaneously.]

And here is the proposed updated tag that isn't being used yet -

harem

A non-monogamous relationship centered around the protagonist being loved by at least two more people. Sex with outsiders is allowed as long as the core dynamic is not affected

So, again, I understand that people have different definitions for some of these terms and that some of them carry connotations that are not intrinsically required. It sucks, words are clumsy things. I'm not trying to get one over on anyone and I'm not trying to start some debate over tags on this site. However, I will not, and in reality cannot, apply arbitrary standards to match the expectations of every individual user on this site based on their own personal interpretations of these terms.

I don't think you're just trying to troll this thread so I'm willing to engage about this in good-faith. But you are not the first person to make the same assertion and you are not the first person I have explained myself to. I don't want this to be an echo chamber, I want to hear from people who think parts of the game need work but, I'm not going to keep having the same debates. Pretty soon I'm just going to start copy-pasting a canned response to comments like these and if I keep getting them I'll eventually start ignoring them entirely.

Maybe use the "group sex" or the "multiple penetration" tag; even the swinging tag makes more sense for this game. I've seen other games use it to denote sharing with other males, which is content that your game will have.

The reality is that nobody who actively searches for harem-type games is going to like your game, simple as that. That is why I think it will be misleading.

 

[DigiDec]

Maybe use the "group sex" or the "multiple penetration" tag; even the swinging tag makes more sense for this game. I've seen other games use it to denote sharing with other males, which is content that your game will have.

The reality is that nobody who actively searches for harem-type games is going to like your game, simple as that. That is why I think it will be misleading.

Please don't take this as dismissive but I've gone pretty in depth about what's going to/might be in the game and why the tags I'm using fit. I forgot to add the multiple penetration tag (I've updated it) and the swinging tag will get added once I get that content into the game. Again, there isn't really going to be much content involving any other males. And I'm not trying to be a dick but if people searching for harem don't think that this game fits the tag then they are the ones using the tag wrong.

I've seen this thread https://f95zone.to/threads/so-you-want-to-make-a-harem-a-helpful-guide-to-the-basics.150068/ which I think is making a similar argument about what constitutes a harem. I don't agree with it. I think there are probably enough anime/manga fans on this site that this comparison will work but if you have no frame of reference I apologize - If you told me that in order for an anime/manga to be isekai the protagonist has to get overpowered abilities that let him overcome every obstacle without much effort you would be wrong. You would be describing a common trope in isekai and maybe what you look for in isekai, but you wouldn't actually be describing what makes something isekai.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying low-stakes power fantasies. I enjoy low-stakes power fantasies. And while I feel like I need to pre-emptively remind everyone that this game won't have NTR, it is not a low-stakes power fantasy. The MC isn't the smartest, strongest, luckiest, biggest dicked guy in the room. He has no magical powers. You're not going to have to put in a lot of effort as a player to get the women to hop on the MC's dick but, they're not all sitting around preserving their chastity just for him and they're not all going to surrender their agency the moment the MC speaks to them. Almost all of the sexual content in this game will be avoidable so if you want to you can avoid the women in this game that don't meet your standards.

You have a preference and that's fine. Expecting everyone else to redefine a term around your preference is not. No hard feelings though, here's a preview as a peace offering.

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[th3n]

Please don't take this as dismissive but I've gone pretty in depth about what's going to/might be in the game and why the tags I'm using fit. I forgot to add the multiple penetration tag (I've updated it) and the swinging tag will get added once I get that content into the game. Again, there isn't really going to be much content involving any other males. And I'm not trying to be a dick but if people searching for harem don't think that this game fits the tag then they are the ones using the tag wrong.

I've seen this thread https://f95zone.to/threads/so-you-want-to-make-a-harem-a-helpful-guide-to-the-basics.150068/ which I think is making a similar argument about what constitutes a harem. I don't agree with it. I think there are probably enough anime/manga fans on this site that this comparison will work but if you have no frame of reference I apologize - If you told me that in order for an anime/manga to be isekai the protagonist has to get overpowered abilities that let him overcome every obstacle without much effort you would be wrong. You would be describing a common trope in isekai and maybe what you look for in isekai, but you wouldn't actually be describing what makes something isekai.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying low-stakes power fantasies. I enjoy low-stakes power fantasies. And while I feel like I need to pre-emptively remind everyone that this game won't have NTR, it is not a low-stakes power fantasy. The MC isn't the smartest, strongest, luckiest, biggest dicked guy in the room. He has no magical powers. You're not going to have to put in a lot of effort as a player to get the women to hop on the MC's dick but, they're not all sitting around preserving their chastity just for him and they're not all going to surrender their agency the moment the MC speaks to them. Almost all of the sexual content in this game will be avoidable so if you want to you can avoid the women in this game that don't meet your standards.

You have a preference and that's fine. Expecting everyone else to redefine a term around your preference is not. No hard feelings though, here's a preview as a peace offering.

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At least in the future these type of discussion are not going to happen. Look at the new tags that the moterators are cooking:

https://f95zone.to/threads/new-tag-discussion.168425/
https://f95zone.to/sam/planned_tags-v2.html

If you want check that.

 

[DigiDec]

At least in the future these type of discussion are not going to happen. Look at the new tags that the moterators are cooking:

https://f95zone.to/threads/new-tag-discussion.168425/
https://f95zone.to/sam/planned_tags-v2.html

If you want check that.

Thank you, I've seen those, and I'll update the tags if/when those get implemented. For reference, this is what the harem tag is going to get updated to -

harem

A non-monogamous relationship centered around the protagonist being loved by at least two more people. Sex with outsiders is allowed as long as the core dynamic is not affected

But I'm sure I'll still get people telling me it's not a harem.

 

[th3n]

I haven't played you game, but for what is said in this forum, i think these 2 fit better:

 

[DigiDec]

I haven't played you game, but for what is said in this forum, i think these 2 fit better:
View attachment 3607892
View attachment 3607891

Maybe I've done a poor job in communicating then, the MC will be the primary love interest for the majority of the women in the game. Some of the women might also be fucking other women as well, with or without the MC's explicit approval/consent, and most if not all of the women might engage in group sex with the MC and other women. There might be instances where if-and only if the MC chooses not to pursue a relationship with certain women it is implied or shown that they end up in relationships with other people.

I don't actually know what the most popular options will be yet but I think it is safe to assume that most of the players will have the MC in a relationship with Nat, Mol, and Sara. All three of them would look at the MC as a boyfriend/husband and while not all three would necessarily be submissive they would defer to the MC's wishes. One of them will actively try to bring in more women for the MC to fuck and one of them will actively try to bring in more women to share with the MC but the relationships would be centered on the MC. I'm not the one defining the tags and I worry that the distinction between the polyamory tag and the harem tag will end up causing more arguments than it solves but, from my read of them this would be a harem not polyamory since the girls see the MC as their lover but don't really see one another as their girlfriends/wives. If you remove the MC from the equation the dynamic falls apart.

There is one (two depending on how we're counting) woman/women who could potentially better be described using the polyamory tag and one that would probably better be described as open-relationship but we'll burn those bridges when we get there/new tags get implemented.

 

[th3n]

Maybe I've done a poor job in communicating then, the MC will be the primary love interest for the majority of the women in the game. Some of the women might also be fucking other women as well, with or without the MC's explicit approval/consent, and most if not all of the women might engage in group sex with the MC and other women. There might be instances where if-and only if the MC chooses not to pursue a relationship with certain women it is implied or shown that they end up in relationships with other people.

I don't actually know what the most popular options will be yet but I think it is safe to assume that most of the players will have the MC in a relationship with Nat, Mol, and Sara. All three of them would look at the MC as a boyfriend/husband and while not all three would necessarily be submissive they would defer to the MC's wishes. One of them will actively try to bring in more women for the MC to fuck and one of them will actively try to bring in more women to share with the MC but the relationships would be centered on the MC. I'm not the one defining the tags and I worry that the distinction between the polyamory tag and the harem tag will end up causing more arguments than it solves but, from my read of them this would be a harem not polyamory since the girls see the MC as their lover but don't really see one another as their girlfriends/wives. If you remove the MC from the equation the dynamic falls apart.

There is one (two depending on how we're counting) woman/women who could potentially better be described using the polyamory tag and one that would probably better be described as open-relationship but we'll burn those bridges when we get there/new tags get implemented.

I think this news tags improve the situation to be honest, for example. Based on what you said:
Some of the women might also be fucking other women as well, with or without the MC's explicit approval/consent. That enters the netorare-lesbian tag, you must think that is not ntr, but that is cover in this definition.


Another example could be:

Spoiler: This

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A lot of people don't like that. Searching i think i found the combination of tags that most harem players like, harem being one, and the other is:


I think people like more this than anything xd. Ah, and don't take what i said to heart or something like that, im anybody to comment on your game, just telling that you can take better those definitions (because they are coming in the future and are considerably better to understand).

 

[DigiDec]

I think this news tags improve the situation to be honest, for example. Based on what you said:
Some of the women might also be fucking other women as well, with or without the MC's explicit approval/consent. That enters the netorare-lesbian tag, you must think that is not ntr, but that is cover in this definition.
View attachment 3607946

Another example could be:

Spoiler: This

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A lot of people don't like that. Searching i think i found the combination of tags that most harem players like, harem being one, and the other is:
View attachment 3607953

I think people like more this than anything xd. Ah, and don't take what i said to heart or something like that, im anybody to comment on your game, just telling that you can take better those definitions (because they are coming in the future and are considerably better to understand).

Overall I think the new tags will be a big help in stopping arguments. I just think the polyamory/harem distinction is going to end up being pretty blurry in most games and they'll just end up with both tags.

I don't like that they're removing the distinction about NTR being designed to cause jealousy but since NTR is a pretty touchy subject I understand why they're casting a wide net. And like you point out this game will end up with some if not all of the NTR tags when they make the change.

I think you're spot on about the protagonist-centric tag describing what a lot of people are looking for.

 

[JokerOfTorment]

Maybe I've done a poor job in communicating then, the MC will be the primary love interest for the majority of the women in the game. Some of the women might also be fucking other women as well, with or without the MC's explicit approval/consent, and most if not all of the women might engage in group sex with the MC and other women. There might be instances where if-and only if the MC chooses not to pursue a relationship with certain women it is implied or shown that they end up in relationships with other people.

I don't actually know what the most popular options will be yet but I think it is safe to assume that most of the players will have the MC in a relationship with Nat, Mol, and Sara. All three of them would look at the MC as a boyfriend/husband and while not all three would necessarily be submissive they would defer to the MC's wishes. One of them will actively try to bring in more women for the MC to fuck and one of them will actively try to bring in more women to share with the MC but the relationships would be centered on the MC. I'm not the one defining the tags and I worry that the distinction between the polyamory tag and the harem tag will end up causing more arguments than it solves but, from my read of them this would be a harem not polyamory since the girls see the MC as their lover but don't really see one another as their girlfriends/wives. If you remove the MC from the equation the dynamic falls apart.

There is one (two depending on how we're counting) woman/women who could potentially better be described using the polyamory tag and one that would probably better be described as open-relationship but we'll burn those bridges when we get there/new tags get implemented.

The problem most will have when you mention if the Mc doesn't want a girl for whatever reason, that means they also might not want to see them with someone else. It's bad enough when some devs have a girlfriend or a girl if she was with other people before the mc tells her whole backstory of who she had sex with and how it was in the past or recently, specially if they are in the middle of having sex. And so I say if they don't get pursued by the player, we shouldn't see them off with someone else. Especially if she gets turned down by the Mc and just as soon finds someone else right after. That just implies she was either desperate for something or easy to get with or something and the Mc/player was better off without them if she is with someone else a week or so later.

 

[DigiDec]

The problem most will have when you mention if the Mc doesn't want a girl for whatever reason, that means they also might not want to see them with someone else. It's bad enough when some devs have a girlfriend or a girl if she was with other people before the mc tells her whole backstory of who she had sex with and how it was in the past or recently, specially if they are in the middle of having sex. And so I say if they don't get pursued by the player, we shouldn't see them off with someone else. Especially if she gets turned down by the Mc and just as soon finds someone else right after. That just implies she was either desperate for something or easy to get with or something and the Mc/player was better off without them if she is with someone else a week or so later.

As far as this game is concerned the instances would mostly involve women who are already in relationships/have active sex lives. For example, in the game Ness mentioned her intention to fuck a couple of girls after she was done talking to the MC and there was a separate scene involving two different women having sex. If the player chooses for the MC not to get involved with any of those girls they're not going to suddenly disappear or take up abstinence. Their sex lives are not going to become the focus of the game either, the point of view is going to primarily follow the MC.

I used a hypothetical example way earlier in the thread that I'll repeat here -

1. MC meets a sexy lady at the bar.

2. Sexy lady says "Hey MC I have a rare disease and if I don't get dicked down in the next 5 minutes my heart will explode. You are my first choice and I really want you to be the one to save my life with your majestic cock."

3. Player decides he doesn't want the MC to fuck the sexy lady so he chooses the option I provide to turn her down.

4. Since the MC isn't going to fuck the girl she goes off and finds someone else who will.

This exact specific scenario is not going to end up in the game but it basically illustrates the vibe. One or more of the girls in the MC's life will become extremely sexual and express a clear preference for the MC to be the one to satisfy their desires. If the MC turns them down they will not suddenly lose those desires and there will probably be references later on about them satisfying those desires with someone else. There might even be a visual or two showing them fucking or having just fucked.

Like I've said before this game isn't going to be focused on romance. The women aren't necessarily choosing the MC out of romantic storybook/hollywood feelings of love. They also aren't all going to be total sluts who are just trying to hop on the first dick they see. For most of them, the only dick they will ever have any interest in during the game is the MCs. Or rather any interest they may or may not have in other dicks won't be relevant enough to get mentioned in the game.

If you get feelings of jealousy over women you're (the MC) not interested in, or you think women having sex with someone other than you (the MC) somehow devalues them then maybe you won't like this game. Or maybe you want to have feelings of jealousy and get off on women being devalued because of their sexual history- I won't kinkshame you for that. Either way it's not going to be a focus of the game. I don't understand how someone would get jealous over something they don't want and I don't see how a woman having a sex life that I'm not part of devalues them so I'm not even really capable of writing stuff like that into the game. If the player ends up feeling either of those things that's coming from them, not me.

Fundamentally most of the women in this game cannot be completely written out even if the player doesn't choose any of the content involving them. They will still be relevant to the plot or would be sharing a living space with the MC. If you're not interested in tag-teaming some bitches with Ness, she's still going to be your boss and a major part of the non-sexual plotline for the game. The game is going to feature corruption/transformation type plots for Nat, Mol, and Sara. If the player chooses to avoid content featuring one or more of those three that would put me in a really strange spot narratively to try and write them suddenly being asexual. So if Mol asks the MC to bend her over the kitchen table and you choose not to because she's not your type/she's your mom and that's super fucked up, she's still going to be living with you. You're not going to have to worry about the MC coming home and seeing her getting gangbanged by a bunch of random dudes in the kitchen but the MC might come home to find her getting fucked by Sara, or riding a dildo or maybe even catch her on a walk of shame home.

I've mentioned before that the general vibe of this game is going to be a regular dude's life suddenly turns into porn game. If you're a depraved horny bastard that would be super fun. If you're a normal person who is interested in typical romantic/sexual relationships, it would be super uncomfortable. If you play the MC as a normal guy who only wants a mostly monogamous relationship with his girlfriend there will be parts of the game that highlight how uncomfortable his life has become. If you play him as a depraved horny bastard the game will at times highlight how fucked up and weird that is. If you played the game and chose to fuck Qai you'll have an idea of what I mean.

We're spending a lot of time debating semantics and hypotheticals that aren't going to be a focus of the game. I don't mind engaging with any of you on this because I don't want you to have the wrong idea but let's not get too wrapped around the axel here. If the slightest possibility of a female character in this game having sexual content not involving the MC is a deal breaker then you won't like this game. If it's not something you're into but you can tolerate it in small doses or you're comfortable making the choices in the game to just avoid that content, then it is probably better just to wait and see until the stuff makes it into the game.

 

[JokerOfTorment]

As far as this game is concerned the instances would mostly involve women who are already in relationships/have active sex lives. For example, in the game Ness mentioned her intention to fuck a couple of girls after she was done talking to the MC and there was a separate scene involving two different women having sex. If the player chooses for the MC not to get involved with any of those girls they're not going to suddenly disappear or take up abstinence. Their sex lives are not going to become the focus of the game either, the point of view is going to primarily follow the MC.

I used a hypothetical example way earlier in the thread that I'll repeat here -


This exact specific scenario is not going to end up in the game but it basically illustrates the vibe. One or more of the girls in the MC's life will become extremely sexual and express a clear preference for the MC to be the one to satisfy their desires. If the MC turns them down they will not suddenly lose those desires and there will probably be references later on about them satisfying those desires with someone else. There might even be a visual or two showing them fucking or having just fucked.

Like I've said before this game isn't going to be focused on romance. The women aren't necessarily choosing the MC out of romantic storybook/hollywood feelings of love. They also aren't all going to be total sluts who are just trying to hop on the first dick they see. For most of them, the only dick they will ever have any interest in during the game is the MCs. Or rather any interest they may or may not have in other dicks won't be relevant enough to get mentioned in the game.

If you get feelings of jealousy over women you're (the MC) not interested in, or you think women having sex with someone other than you (the MC) somehow devalues them then maybe you won't like this game. Or maybe you want to have feelings of jealousy and get off on women being devalued because of their sexual history- I won't kinkshame you for that. Either way it's not going to be a focus of the game. I don't understand how someone would get jealous over something they don't want and I don't see how a woman having a sex life that I'm not part of devalues them so I'm not even really capable of writing stuff like that into the game. If the player ends up feeling either of those things that's coming from them, not me.

Fundamentally most of the women in this game cannot be completely written out even if the player doesn't choose any of the content involving them. They will still be relevant to the plot or would be sharing a living space with the MC. If you're not interested in tag-teaming some bitches with Ness, she's still going to be your boss and a major part of the non-sexual plotline for the game. The game is going to feature corruption/transformation type plots for Nat, Mol, and Sara. If the player chooses to avoid content featuring one or more of those three that would put me in a really strange spot narratively to try and write them suddenly being asexual. So if Mol asks the MC to bend her over the kitchen table and you choose not to because she's not your type/she's your mom and that's super fucked up, she's still going to be living with you. You're not going to have to worry about the MC coming home and seeing her getting gangbanged by a bunch of random dudes in the kitchen but the MC might come home to find her getting fucked by Sara, or riding a dildo or maybe even catch her on a walk of shame home.

I've mentioned before that the general vibe of this game is going to be a regular dude's life suddenly turns into porn game. If you're a depraved horny bastard that would be super fun. If you're a normal person who is interested in typical romantic/sexual relationships, it would be super uncomfortable. If you play the MC as a normal guy who only wants a mostly monogamous relationship with his girlfriend there will be parts of the game that highlight how uncomfortable his life has become. If you play him as a depraved horny bastard the game will at times highlight how fucked up and weird that is. If you played the game and chose to fuck Qai you'll have an idea of what I mean.

We're spending a lot of time debating semantics and hypotheticals that aren't going to be a focus of the game. I don't mind engaging with any of you on this because I don't want you to have the wrong idea but let's not get too wrapped around the axel here. If the slightest possibility of a female character in this game having sexual content not involving the MC is a deal breaker then you won't like this game. If it's not something you're into but you can tolerate it in small doses or you're comfortable making the choices in the game to just avoid that content, then it is probably better just to wait and see until the stuff makes it into the game.

I'm guessing you mean Sara will be the one who if the Mc turns her down, she will be going out to find a woman then instead of a guy to have sex with or something if as you say, she only wants the Mc to be her only man and if the mom got taken out on the walks or whatever by Sara, if that was to happen, she somehow makes sure no one touches her or does anything sexual to her, which happens already in real life, even if a girl is just being normal and in no sexualized clothing.

 

[DigiDec]

I'm guessing you mean Sara will be the one who if the Mc turns her down, she will be going out to find a woman then instead of a guy to have sex with or something if as you say, she only wants the Mc to be her only man and if the mom got taken out on the walks or whatever by Sara, if that was to happen, she somehow makes sure no one touches her or does anything sexual to her, which happens already in real life, even if a girl is just being normal and in no sexualized clothing.

More or less yeah.

Sara will be in a sexual relationship with another woman before the MC has the opportunity to get involved. It will be a little more of a master/slave dynamic than girlfriends and she'll continue that relationship even if she gets involved with the MC. She'll also start getting a little aggressive/suggestive around other women but there's not going to be any risk of getting NTR'd. If the MC ends up getting involved with just Mol the worst you'll see would be Sara occasionally acting like a creep, making inappropriate comments, spying on the two of you, or shit like that. If the MC ends up with Sara but not Mol, or neither of them, the player might end up seeing them behaving sexually with one another. If the MC does get involved with Sara, the dynamic between them would sort of be the MC is first among equals. She would view the other women in the MCs life more as sexual playthings for her and the MC to enjoy. Ness would have a similar dynamic but with her it would be a lot more like a platonic friend who you fuck and/or share women with.

We're not there yet so the specifics are all hypothetical but if I were to create a scene that would potentially be a 3way with the MC, Mol, and Sara it might start with the MC coming home from work to find the girls already getting started and then he joins in. I would create some options for the player or some alternative narration if the player isn't involved with either of the women yet but, the start of the scene might end up being the same regardless. The only other option is to make a bazillion* different alternative scenes or just have some playthroughs be very light on content.

I won't be able to balance things perfectly since some of the girls are only going to get 1 or 2 scenes in the first place but I don't want just one path to have most of the content. Ideally, I'll have options available where you can just exclude any other sexual partners and have 1 on 1 time with your lady of choice but that probably won't work in every scenario. This means that ultimately the depraved horny bastard players will end up with the most content since they'll be saying "Yes, and..." to every option they're presented but I want the other options to at least be close to matching. It might end up leading to some repetitive sex scenes with Nat, which is an issue I'm struggling with on the current update, but I think I'll make it work.

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*approximation; not a guarantee

 

[Canto Forte]

Super hero babe who ended the reign of terror of the baddie in the sim where MC was too out of it for his own good.

Just saying that having a couples life filled with recurring sexual encounters with your young and rather ravishing girlfriend is a dream come through for any and all young adults who are adhering to the archaic staples of human evolution: get a spouse and start a family with her and strive to work on your bright future together.

It might end up leading to some repetitive sex scenes with Nat, which is an issue I'm struggling with on the current update, but I think I'll make it work.

Music to my ears, dev! These words really alleviate the tension of overthinking the karmic choices MC makes throughout the game into being more invested in them and looking forward to the game showing the payoffs, rather than the pitfalls of following MC.

If the MC ends up with Sara but not Mol, or neither of them, the player might end up seeing them behaving sexually with one another. If the MC does get involved with Sara, the dynamic between them would sort of be the MC is first among equals. She would view the other women in the MCs life more as sexual playthings for her and the MC to enjoy. Ness would have a similar dynamic but with her it would be a lot more like a platonic friend who you fuck and/or share women with.