Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[NBV]

Didn't they get 2 million worth of sales on EA launch day alone? The excuse doesn't work because they decided to go a different route on what was promised with some key features people backed tiers for. It took how many dev diaries and patches in, and a new manager to come in for them to finally realize maybe the going the vision opposite of what was promised isn't the way to go.

They had mods on their discord and Steam (there's an infamous post people used to post screenshots of) saying that things like the Pandora and h-scene feedback was a minority thing, despite all their mediums for feedback showing it was not. It's good to hear that they'll actually work towards this better, but I'll wait until they actually do better. For the 50th time, we still don't have any transparency on what they want to do with the Pandora overhauls. The whole short foreplay videos thing they plan to add for devotion sex scenes seem pointless. Did they just forget that people don't like just watching small videos with little to no interactivity in this game? Why not actual foreplay scenes to interact it?

 

[Bruce_Wayne18]

That excuse works a lot better when you remember they're supported purely by sales of the game, not by microtransactions or shareholders to please.

Aren't you forgetting the $1 MIL funding they got?

Edit: Sorry, $2 MIL

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Aren't you forgetting the $1 MIL funding they got?

Edit: Sorry, $2 MIL

Aren't you forgetting they have people to pay decent wages over 3 years, and brought on more staff this past year?

 

[NBV]

Aren't you forgetting the $1 MIL funding they got?

Edit: Sorry, $2 MIL

It's about 3 mil or 4. They got around 1 million in funding and 2 million worth of sales at EA launch alone. Their dev diary claims Subverse doesn't have as much funds as Honey Select's development, despite Illusion being an indie studio until AFTER Honey Select took off, so I doubt it even had a million in funding to begin with. A good portion of HS's assets are re-used from past games, same for new games. I guess they didn't realize Illusion tends to release plenty of shovelware games, they're just good at what they do.

I do find it extremely annoying how Fow wants to keep touting that their game is supposed to be an AAA experience, yet still want to use these kind of excuses at every turn. You can't have it both ways. You're either AAA and have AAA porn game expectations, or you aren't AAA and have tempered expectations.

Aren't you forgetting they have people to pay decent wages over 3 years, and brought on more staff this past year?

Every porn game team has to pay decent wages for 3 years, despite not having 3 million in funding, tons of funding from their past Patreon StudioFow works, etc. Maybe they shouldn't have invested in creating their own Crypto at the same time of working on Subverse?

They dropped staff too, remember?

 

[Joshua Tree]

Aren't you forgetting they have people to pay decent wages over 3 years, and brought on more staff this past year?

Have a feeling a lot of these people have no grasp of what bills and expenses is.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Every porn game team has to pay decent wages for 3 years, despite not having 3 million in funding, tons of funding from their past Patreon StudioFow works, etc. Maybe they shouldn't have invested in creating their own Crypto at the same time of working on Subverse?

They dropped staff too, remember?

Afaik they said the crypto thing is just on a concept stage. So nothing been invested into that.

 

[NBV]

Scratch that they got over 4 million in funding, likely 5 by now. Their Kickstarter received £1,668,626, which is $2,203,162 in USD. They then got over 2 million worth of sales during EA launch, pushing that to 4 million combined. Given that they've clearly gotten a couple more sales since then, they'd likely have fit a bit higher than 4 million by now. Even with Kickstarter's cut, they got a lot to hold people off.

Have a feeling a lot of these people have no grasp of what bills and expenses is.

And you like to repeat to repeat the same excuses with him. 4 million is plenty for game development. Are people forgetting Mighty No 9. had 3 million and that was considered more than enough? It failed, but only because the lead dev kept using it's funds to fund multiple other projects along side it. Even it's lackluster release, it still funded 3 different games and a TV show.

EDIT: Something tells me that Fow is just giving everyone inflated checks and that's causing the problems.

 

[NBV]

Afaik they said the crypto thing is just on a concept stage. So nothing been invested into that.

It's not a concept. They already said they're working on it in early stages and that was about a month or so after they announced Fowcoin was going to be a thing. Fowcoin itself was announced only two days after the game's EA was release and they already had worked out dealings with people long before the EA's release to get Fowcoin off the ground.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Scratch that they got over 4 million in funding, likely 5 by now. Their Kickstarter received £1,668,626, which is $2,203,162 in USD. They then got over 2 million worth of sales during EA launch, pushing that to 4 million combined. Given that they've clearly gotten a couple more sales since then, they'd likely have fit a bit higher than 4 million by now. Even with Kickstarter's cut, they got a lot to hold people off.



And you like to repeat to repeat the same excuses with him. 4 million is plenty for game development. Are people forgetting Mighty No 9. had 3 million and that was considered more than enough? It failed, but only because the lead dev kept using it's funds to fund multiple other projects along side it. Even it's lackluster release, it still funded 3 different games and a TV show.

EDIT: Something tells me that Fow is just giving everyone inflated checks and that's causing the problems.

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Consider their current team size, the years it been in production and the time until completion.... That still not that much. There is a difference between hire actual talent and hobby creators on Patreon.

 

[Joshua Tree]

It's not a concept. They already said they're working on it in early stages and that was about a month or so after they announced Fowcoin was going to be a thing. Fowcoin itself was announced only two days after the game's EA was release and they already had worked out dealings with people long before the EA's release to get Fowcoin off the ground.

afaik it was mentioned in a Q&A that no money been spent on it.

 

[NBV]

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Consider their current team size, the years it been in production and the time until completion.... That still not that much. There is a difference between hire actual talent and hobby creators on Patreon.

I'm aware there is a difference between hobby creators and an experienced dev team, but this is still moving the goalpost. The point was that they still recieved plenty of funds for their game, so much that they had more funds that that of the (fake) creator of Megaman's spiritual successor game. They even had plenty of fundings from their before Subverse days, which is why they had so many 3D model assets done of the Subverse characters before the thing even got off the Kickstarter ground.

Every time you guys make an excuse and someone has an answer for it, you guys just move the goalpost further.

afaik it was mentioned in a Q&A that no money been spent on it.

So we should believe everything they say? Q&A, dev diaries, and staff on their Steam/Discord have been caught lying in the past. Remember that Pandora overhaul they promised would be in the Taron update that went missing? Some of the original devs of Subverse were also a part of the

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site and other companies helping create Fowcoin. It was entirely a conflict of interest situation. That same lead dev is now has his Subverse position replaced with this new guy in the dev diary, so what does that mean for Fowcoin's development now? Is he going to just fully work on Fowcoin now? What did it mean for Subverse when he was the head of both projects to begin with? How did that affect Subverse's scattered direction originally?

 

[Joshua Tree]

I'm aware there is a difference between hobby creators and an experienced dev team, but this is still moving the goalpost. The point was that they still recieved plenty of funds for their game, so much that they had more funds that that of the (fake) creator of Megaman's spiritual successor game. They even had plenty of fundings from their before Subverse days, which is why they had so many 3D model assets done of the Subverse characters before the thing even got off the Kickstarter ground.

Every time you guys make an excuse and someone has an answer for it, you guys just move the goalpost further.


So we should believe everything they say? Q&A, dev diaries, and staff on their Steam/Discord have been caught lying in the past. Remember that Pandora overhaul they promised would be in the Taron update that went missing? Some of the original devs of Subverse were also a part of the

You must be registered to see the links

site and other companies helping create Fowcoin. It was entirely a conflict of interest situation. That same lead dev is now has his Subverse position replaced with this new guy in the dev diary, so what does that mean for Fowcoin's development now? Is he going to just fully work on Fowcoin now? What did it mean for Subverse when he was the head of both projects to begin with? How did that affect Subverse's scattered direction originally?

Oh dear. Game devs and designers never been replaced or changed positions in dev teams ever before... right? That is one of the things with hire actual talent. You can hire someone that is more qualified for a position. Skills, experience and so forth.

 

[NBV]

In fact, the whole Zovolt/Streembit and Crypto situation with Fowcoin is no different than the Mighty No.9 one. Both devs tried immediately rushing towards expanding their brands and market before the game was even finished or closed to done. Both claiming no funds from the development went into it. While we can't really confirm no funds from the game went into Zovolt/Streembit services and their Fowcoin development, we do know that their Subverse's dev team has been working on it, as mentioned above that some devs for Subverse were simultaneously devs for those other projects/sites.

Ignoring the possible fund misuse and all the other stuff, just knowing that the lead dev was also the lead of the other two projects at the same time shows why the game's dev team couldn't be clear on what they wanted. Their main person for direction was already scattered among projects himself

Oh dear. Game devs and designers never been replaced or changed positions in dev teams ever before... right? That is one of the things with hire actual talent.

So we're back to you pretending the rest of my points don't exist and cherry picking one line to pretend it's my whole argument again?

You can hire someone that is more qualified for a position. Skills, experience and so forth.

Except one of their past dev diaries flat out states they were going to hire people primarily based on physical attributes. Did you forget that one dev diary pushing their forthcomings on their dev team being from an older generation and needing to hire new, and emphasis on "younger" devs for the current?

 

[Joshua Tree]

In fact, the whole Zovolt/Streembit and Crypto situation with Fowcoin is no different than the Mighty No.9 one. Both devs tried immediately rushing towards expanding their brands and market before the game was even finished or closed to done. Both claiming no funds from the development went into it. While we can't really confirm no funds from the game went into Zovolt/Streembit services and their Fowcoin development, we do know that their Subverse's dev team has been working on it, as mentioned above that some devs for Subverse were simultaneously devs for those other projects/sites.

Ignoring the possible fund misuse and all the other stuff, just knowing that the lead dev was also the lead of the other two projects at the same time shows why the game's dev team couldn't be clear on what they wanted. Their main person for direction was already scattered among projects himself


So we're back to you pretending the rest of my points don't exist and cherry picking one line to pretend it's my whole argument again?

Except one of their past dev diaries flat out states they were going to hire people primarily based on physical attributes. Did you forget that one dev diary pushing their forthcomings on their dev team being from an older generation and needing to hire new, younger devs of the current?

It's not about cherry picking, it's about not "bother" go back and forth on something that end up pointless. If they said they haven't spent any of the Subverse money on the crypto shit, then it would be up to you to prove otherwise and provide the evidence of such right? Or else any such statements is just pulled out of your ass with nothing to show for other than smelly fingers.

As for hire talent based on physical attributes? Really, I think you must have chewed on some irony there, as that would work splendid if you want to hire pole dancers and strippers, not so much when you need game devs, coders, gfx artists and so forth. As for hire younger talent doesn't mean uneducated or unskilled. Hire people in their 40-50's to work on something like Subverse might not be that productive right?

From one of the devblogs...

"Tibor

Following my epic failure and my colossal downfall as the international ambassador of Subverse in East Asia, as some of you might remember I was dismissed from the project lead position. As Alexander Graham Bell once said: "When one door closes, another opens". Well I am happy to report that now I am a junior Unreal Engine developer on the Subverse project.

In terms of career progression it is a rather unusual path as some of the senior developers could be my grandchildren - that’s how old I am."


If your skills is on the level of a junior dev.... basically a intern..... imagine new more skilled talent get taken aboard right?

 

[NBV]

It's not about cherry picking, it's about not "bother" go back and forth on something that end up pointless. If they said they haven't spent any of the Subverse money on the crypto shit, then it would be up to you to prove otherwise and provide the evidence of such right? Or else any such statements is just pulled out of your ass with nothing to show for other than smelly fingers.

But you also ignored the part where I said they had devs working on both projects at the same time, and we know this because one of the lead Devs is also a lead for the Zovolt/Streembit. Tibor was both the lead developer of the Fowcoin blockchain that IS in the works, the CTO and director of publishing Subverse and it's business, and the founder of Zovolt, along with it's creation of Streembit. They claimed that both projects are entirely independant, but have multiple devs in small and high positions who were working on both projects, which is likely why the game's development was scattered.

As for hire talent based on physical attributes? Really, I think you must have chewed on some irony there, as that would work splendid if you want to hire pole dancers and strippers, not so much when you need game devs, coders, gfx artists and so forth. As for hire younger talent doesn't mean uneducated or unskilled. Hire people in their 40-50's to work on something like Subverse might not be that productive right?

They started making dev diaries like this and such:

On the senior level some of us have worked in software development for many decades. Maybe that is the issue. 21st century porn software development is not the business of old men who were born in the first half of the 20th century. Futa, mantics, the anal destruction of robot ladies, the trajectory of explosive fluids from footlong schlongs were never discussed in my classical Latin studies classes. Nor did we create such things on our Commodore 64’s. However, my Latin teacher often said: “Nil satis nisi optimum”. Therefore, we’ve hired young managers to drive this unique game forward, and we will keep hiring the best young talent to make the operation stronger. By learning from the mistakes of the past and with the energy of youth we can speed the releases up. Quod nocet, saepe docet. Our goal is to push a large release every 3-4 months. By gaining more and more experience in game application development we are confident that we can achieve such more frequent release schedule.

Thank you all for your wonderful support and allowing us to create the best adult game ever, which is what Subverse is shaping up to be.”

When you prioritize younger talent or any kind of talent based on physical attributes, it means that even those more skillful may be less likely to be hired, because their past the physical attribute you were looking for. In this case, they wanted younger people, which meant older people who could have been more skillful had the chance of being overlooked. This is all because of their original dev being some out of touch weirdo that thought the problem wasn't their lack of things like roadmaps, but their age. It absolutely couldn't have been their decisions that was bad, it had to be something out of their control.

Let's not forget to mention you either lied or was just misinformed that Fowcoin was just a concept and not already in development. They confirmed this on their discord and forum post. It's been in development. Streembit exists to host their Blockchain.

 

[NBV]

From one of the devblogs...

"Tibor

Following my epic failure and my colossal downfall as the international ambassador of Subverse in East Asia, as some of you might remember I was dismissed from the project lead position. As Alexander Graham Bell once said: "When one door closes, another opens". Well I am happy to report that now I am a junior Unreal Engine developer on the Subverse project.

In terms of career progression it is a rather unusual path as some of the senior developers could be my grandchildren - that’s how old I am."


If your skills is on the level of a junior dev.... basically a intern..... imagine new more skilled talent get taken aboard right?

Maybe they should have focused on skilled talent instead of their original excuse to hire younger people?

 

[Joshua Tree]

But you also ignored the part where I said they had devs working on both projects at the same time, and we know this because one of the lead Devs is also a lead for the Zovolt/Streembit. Tibor was both the lead developer of the Fowcoin blockchain that IS in the works, the CTO and director of publishing Subverse and it's business, and the founder of Zovolt, along with it's creation of Streembit. They claimed that both projects are entirely independant, but have multiple devs in small and high positions who were working on both projects, which is likely why the game's development was scattered.



They started making dev diaries like this and such:

When you prioritize younger talent or any kind of talent based on physical attributes, it means that even those more skillful may be less likely to be hired, because their past the physical attribute you were looking for. In this case, they wanted younger people, which meant older people who could have been more skillful had the chance of being overlooked. This is all because of their original dev being some out of touch weirdo that thought the problem wasn't their lack of things like roadmaps, but their age. It absolutely couldn't have been their decisions that was bad, it had to be something out of their control.

Let's not forget to mention you either lied or was just misinformed that Fowcoin was just a concept and not already in development. They confirmed this on their discord and forum post. It's been in development. Streembit exists to host their Blockchain.

You are also limited by what people want to work on and with. Working on such adult games is not everyones cup of tea. Younger talent in the industry is more prone to jump on such a chance than someone that might feel it could put a dump on their cv. When you hire talent (or anyone) for whatever job, hire someone that is actually interested in the project and the job other than just cash a paycheck is a big pluss too.

As for Streembit... Streembit LTD is listed as the Publisher of Subverse.... So for what purpose Streembit exists.. well, seems to be several things.

 

[NBV]

You are also limited by what people want to work on and with. Working on such adult games is not everyones cup of tea. Younger talent in the industry is more prone to jump on such a chance than someone that might feel it could put a dump on their cv.

Then you don't hire people who have big limitations on what kind of things they want to touch, since it just limits your own production flow by having people who you can't turn to for things. And let's not pretend there aren't lots of devs who would be willing to work on these kind of things, please.

Younger talent in the industry is more prone to jump on such a chance than someone that might feel it could put a dump on their cv.

And you know this how? We already have lots of existing adult game devs of all age groups doing this stuff. Where are you getting this info from?

When you hire talent (or anyone) for whatever job, hire someone that is actually interested in the project and the job other than just cash a paycheck is a big pluss too.

No shit, why would you hire someone not interested in the project? Why even mention this? Who said anything otherwise? The point is that they emphasized age as an excuse and pointed at hiring younger people as priority. You bringing up all these things does not change that fact. It's their own statements. People new Tibors was out of touch for a long time based on things he said. It had nothing to do with his age, it was him not being fit. It took months for them or himself to finally accept that and replace his role with someone else.

As for Streembit... Streembit LTD is listed as the Publisher of Subverse.... So for what purpose Streembit exists.. well, seems to be several things.

Tibor is the founder and lead dev of Zovolt, which Streembit is created from. Streembit is the platform Fowcoin is going to use for its blockchain. Tibor is the lead dev of Fowcoin. Come on, this is not hard to grasp. Fowcoin was meant to be their future currency to be used on Streembit and Zovolt. It's pretty simple.

 

[Joshua Tree]

NVB Start contact a bunch of people in the industry and ask them if they interested in work on a adult game with lot of lewd stuff. It's a bit like contact random actors and ask if they interested in star in porn... It carries a bit of stigma. Just as a lot of the creators of adult games on patreon (this site etc), don't tell their family what they are doing. There is people of all ages in the industry that work on lewd stuff, but that doesn't mean you have carte blanche when it come to hire talent.

Those with several projects on their CV have it easier to get work in the main stream industry, those that doesn't have a harder time and would be more prone to work on adult stuff. Because... bills need to be paid..

As for they spent x & y on whatever. Until you can pull something out of your ass other than stinky fingers, and bring forth something substantional that would back up your claims, its just smelly fingers right?

 

[NBV]

NVB Start contact a bunch of people in the industry and ask them if they interested in work on a adult game with lot of lewd stuff. It's a bit like contact random actors and ask if they interested in star in porn... It carries a bit of stigma. Just as a lot of the creators of adult games on patreon (this site etc), don't tell their family what they are doing. There is people of all ages in the industry that work on lewd stuff, but that doesn't mean you have carte blanche when it come to hire talent.

You're making it sound like there are potential celebs avoiding this game to not hurt their rep or some shit.

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Most of the devs on subverse use pen names. There are plenty of NSFW artists, voice actors, and and modelers on Twitter right now just taking commission work. Some of Subverse's current waifu VA's were originally taking NSFW audio commissions on Twitter before getting their job on the team. You sound just like Tibor's right now, talking out of your ass and being completely out of touch with the actual climate of the NSFW community. There are multiple sites even dedicated to getting NSFW artists, voice actors, etc. Then again, the way you both tend to talk about other games and even get stuff about Subverse wrong in your brash attempts at debunking statements have long proved that.

Why is it that the well of talent is only scarce when directly speaking about Subverse issues? Every time we talk about Subverse you two act like we're in some different reality:

1. We bring up lackluster reviews coming in after the game's first hyped up month of EA, you guys bring up the chinese review bombs years later, but won't acknowledge all the positive meme reviews made by people who played the game for only 30 minutes.
2. I bring up their crypto, you randomly jump in to claim it's only a concept, despite FOW saying multiple times on their discord and forum post it's already off the ground and in development.
3. We mention how much funding they get, you guys suddenly pretend that over 4 million dollars is absolutely nothing. It is for an AAA mainstream game, but that's not what they are. No other porn game has gotten that much that early to work with, not even counting the funds they had before the Kickstarter went up. You'll then move the goalpost that they're not professional, despite them still getting double the amount of other non-professional AND professional devs who have done more.
4. Someone even mentions another game and you two will proceed to talk out of your ass about said games with next to zero knowledge of them, such as the Illusion argument we had, where you literally pulled up the wiki and made guesses to form your arguments.

The list can go on. It's just a constant stream of goalpost moving and circle jerking each others comments. How many times have we seen you guys repeat that everyone here must not know that development costs money, despite you both getting hit with the same rebuttal and losing every time. You just reach, reach reach. Now we're at you pretending there's nobody trying to start a business off their SFW content?

NVBAs for they spent x & y on whatever. Until you can pull something out of your ass other than stinky fingers, and bring forth something substantional that would back up your claims, its just smelly fingers right?

You mean like how you constantly make excuses for them based on ideas you've pulled out of your ass? Why don't YOU contact a bunch of the talent and ask them what their opinions are, since you're the one not substantiating anything but speaking for everyone. Haven't you realized that most of my posts arguing with you have been in direct response to you and VV just thinking of what may have happened and then stating them as true to shut others down? I only even brought up the crypto and funding things because you two were trying to pull the little funding argument again. I wouldn't have brought up their 4 million in funds if you two didn't try this same tired argument.