3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

[osanaiko]

Hi!

So I've got a question about translucency. I have two pictures layered in the translucency picture: a tattoo and a slight-change on the nipples. both of these are PNGs, and are just transparent everywhere other than where I actually need them to do stuff. If I don't have those layers added on the translucency the color of the tattoo and the nipples are all wrong.

Clearly the arm and torso now have the exact same hue, and the un-altered face still has the issue (since I have done fuck all with that). The issue here is that I'm clearly changing the entire hue of the skin, which I don't want to.

Is there any way of making the added translucency layers ONLY work where they are supposed to?

I could be completely wrong here as I am not a shader expert but this is my guess:

I think the problem comes from how the "transluncency" channel works with the Iray skin shader. It is not a layer on top of the other image maps that make up the shader, it is a complex multiplier that changes how much light and what colors of light are reflected from some depth below the top surface of the skin. So it does not surprise me that you are getting weird effects.

If I understand correctly you want to add a tattoo and some nipple coloration? Then the way I would try that would be to make a copy of the base skin "diffuse" texture map and edit that directly to layer your images on top. (Similar can be done using L.I.E. but that's just a complicated way to combine images to do basically the same edits except within Daz).

 

[MidnightArrow]

Not sure what's going on with your images. The first one, the diffuse texture slot shows the torso but the translucency texture slot shows you have multiple surfaces selected? The diffuse and translucent textures should be the same. Some PAs include a pale pink version of the diffuse, but that's largely pointless. You get the same effect by putting the diffuse into the translucent slot and tinting it towards pale pink, and you save memory too.

Your problem just looks like an incorrect blend mode. You haven't showed us your LIE editor or your texture, so there's no way to tell what's going on with that. Your best solution is to just take the diffuse torso texture into Photoshop or whatever and do it there, then use that texture for both diffuse and translucent since they're the same thing (the outer layer of human skin). That also saves you time since iirc Daz Studio has rebuild the layered image into your temp directory every time anyway. Plus that tattoo looks fake anyway since it's too sharp, so you might as well apply a blur filter while you're at it.

 

[Yuuki4]

I could be completely wrong here as I am not a shader expert but this is my guess:

I think the problem comes from how the "transluncency" channel works with the Iray skin shader. It is not a layer on top of the other image maps that make up the shader, it is a complex multiplier that changes how much light and what colors of light are reflected from some depth below the top surface of the skin. So it does not surprise me that you are getting weird effects.

If I understand correctly you want to add a tattoo and some nipple coloration? Then the way I would try that would be to make a copy of the base skin "diffuse" texture map and edit that directly to layer your images on top. (Similar can be done using L.I.E. but that's just a complicated way to combine images to do basically the same edits except within Daz).

I figured out a fix for it! If I just add the base-color PNG as a bottom layer with the other two PNGs in Translucency Color then it works exactly as I expect it, where it ignores the alteration everywhere EXCEPT where I actually want them!

So the tattoo is basically just added as a layer on the base color PNG and the Translucency color. Then I also put the base color PNG as a bottom layer for the Translucency.



I still think it's weird that it doesn't work unless I add that copy of the base color as a layer for the Translucency.
It also dawns on me that I did exactly what you said to do lol

 

[Yuuki4]

Not sure what's going on with your images. The first one, the diffuse texture slot shows the torso but the translucency texture slot shows you have multiple surfaces selected?

Yea, the first pic was just showing when the color was right on the torso tattoo. The second was showing what happened if I changed the Translucency weight on ALL the surfaces, that should have been the same color but wasn't.

The diffuse and translucent textures should be the same. Some PAs include a pale pink version of the diffuse, but that's largely pointless. You get the same effect by putting the diffuse into the translucent slot and tinting it towards pale pink, and you save memory too.

Is it Base Color you mean with Diffuse, or is that some other texture?

Your problem just looks like an incorrect blend mode. You haven't showed us your LIE editor or your texture, so there's no way to tell what's going on with that.

I'm rendering the thing now, since I managed to fix it so I can't show you what my settings are. What should they be on?

Your best solution is to just take the diffuse torso texture into Photoshop or whatever and do it there, then use that texture for both diffuse and translucent since they're the same thing (the outer layer of human skin).

Are they the same? Because it seems to me like they do different things, like Base Color roughly defines the outer color and the Translucency weight controls the shade of it (like Pale <--> Dark).
The fix I used for it was doing pretty much as you and osanaiko said, use the Diffusion texture in Translucency too, just did it in DAZ LIE instead of another image editor.

That also saves you time since iirc Daz Studio has rebuild the layered image into your temp directory every time anyway.

See, I kinda like having stand-alone tattoo's that I can just add on any skin, which is why I like using daz LIE instead of putting everything on a single picture that I'd import from PS.

Plus that tattoo looks fake anyway since it's too sharp, so you might as well apply a blur filter while you're at it.

[/QUOTE]

I really can't argue with that, the tattoo could 100% look better but baby-steps. Now I at least have the color I wanted correct lol

 

[MidnightArrow]

Is it Base Color you mean with Diffuse, or is that some other texture?
View attachment 2203005

Diffuse, albedo, and base color all mean the same thing (more or less). Diffuse refers to something that reflects light.

I'm rendering the thing now, since I managed to fix it so I can't show you what my settings are. What should they be on?

Depends on the texture. If it has alpha use alpha blend. If it's on a white background use multiply. If it's on a black background use additive (I think).

Are they the same? Because it seems to me like they do different things, like Base Color roughly defines the outer color and the Translucency weight controls the shade of it (like Pale <--> Dark).

Path tracing engines like Iray work by shooting light rays into the scene and computing how they bounce off surfaces. In this case, the translucent mix is the probability the light rays will reflect off the skin (diffuse) or enter into the skin (translucent) to be used with the fake "subsurface scattering" that Daz pretends Iray can do. So a fifty percent mix means half the light will reflect off the skin and half the light will penetrate it. The "sampling" path tracing engines do really means they flip a coin to choose which way they'll bounce on every iteration and the pixel colors are blended together to make them more accurate.

The translucency layer is like a filter for the light from the outside world. As the light rays pass through the skin, they take on the color of the translucency texture and its tint, which is then modified by the SSS properties further down the Uber shader. But it's the exact same surface (human skin) so it should use the exact same texture. The tint value is only there to mimic the way real-world surfaces reflect and absorb different wavelengths of light.

From wikipedia:

The skin color of people with light skin is determined mainly by the bluish-white connective tissue under the

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and by the

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circulating in the veins of the dermis. The red color underlying the skin becomes more visible, especially in the face, when, as consequence of

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or

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, or the stimulation of the

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(

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,

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),

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dilate.

So the base color should be blue-white, but Daz must've thought it'd be weird for PAs to tint their base textures blue, so they offloaded that onto SSS reflectance. But that's just multiplied by the base color, it does the same thing as tinting it directly.

The translucency should be reddish, but that's also multiplied by the SSS too so it's more complicated. Inside the volume the volume absorbtion is there to stop the color after 4mm or so (the depth of human skin) and the scattering color is how much light gets reflected back out after bouncing around inside the skin layer, creating the pink color of Caucasian skin. In mono SSS mode the scattered light is the same as the translucent but chromatic mode lets you do another tint to it.

Frankly the whole Uber shader is a too-complicated mess to get around the fact that Iray is an archviz engine and can't do real subsurface scattering, and also Daz refuses to put any work or documentation into their shader mixer so nobody knows how to use it. They give PAs six different ways to do subsurface scattering (the three base color effects along with either mono or chromatic mode) and the PAs make skin textures based on whichever one of these arbitrary combinations they decide to use. That's why Daz skins from different PAs often look like sunburnt rednecks or Blue Man Group when used in the same scene.

 

[osanaiko]

Today I learn a thing!

Thanks MidnightArrow

 

[Yuuki4]

I don't understand why dForce is so fucking inconsistent.

I have two scenes that are basically identical, with a cloak draped on a base Genesis 8 female in both and yet in one of them Simulations just breaks 100% of the time. I've done ZERO changes to the cloak or the base female, except some shape settings that are IDENTICAL on the cloak and the EXACT same pose. I'm using the EXACT same simulation-settings, and I'm simulating the cloak using "Simulate Selected". The cloaks are identical in the Surface -> Simulation, I haven't changed ANYTHING there. They are both fresh from the library!

The broken scene has some cameras and a completely hidden character. I'm ONLY simulating the Cloak, so it SHOULDN'T interfere since it's hidden. In this scene I can't even simulate the cloak without ANYTHING, it breaks and explodes in the air.


The working scene has a plane that the other scene doesn't, but it does fuck all. without it the cloak just goes through the floor. The simulation still works. Here the cloak can be simulated alone in the air, and it drapes on the floor without exploding or anything.


In one of these the dForce simulation WORKS, and in the other it crashes DAZ completely. I have no fucking clue why, does anyone have any ideas how to fix it?

 

[tripod70]

I don't understand why dForce is so fucking inconsistent.

I have two scenes that are basically identical, with a cloak draped on a base Genesis 8 female in both and yet in one of them Simulations just breaks 100% of the time. I've done ZERO changes to the cloak or the base female, except some shape settings that are IDENTICAL on the cloak and the EXACT same pose. I'm using the EXACT same simulation-settings, and I'm simulating the cloak using "Simulate Selected". The cloaks are identical in the Surface -> Simulation, I haven't changed ANYTHING there. They are both fresh from the library!

The broken scene has some cameras and a completely hidden character. I'm ONLY simulating the Cloak, so it SHOULDN'T interfere since it's hidden. In this scene I can't even simulate the cloak without ANYTHING, it breaks and explodes in the air.
View attachment 2206090

The working scene has a plane that the other scene doesn't, but it does fuck all. without it the cloak just goes through the floor. The simulation still works. Here the cloak can be simulated alone in the air, and it drapes on the floor without exploding or anything.
View attachment 2206093

In one of these the dForce simulation WORKS, and in the other it crashes DAZ completely. I have no fucking clue why, does anyone have any ideas how to fix it?

I had trouble wit that and the time it took also... Look for Dforce Companion here in assets or follow this link https://f95zone.to/threads/dforce-companion-2-0.128411/ Install it and play with it. It is ease to use and saves a ton of time, and works great.

 

[MidnightArrow]

I don't understand why dForce is so fucking inconsistent.

You're talking about a business that's been selling 3d content for over 20 years yet in all that time haven't figured out very basic stuff like "you need IK handles to make IK end effectors useful". I don't know what made you think they were capable of implementing a physics engine.

You say you have a hidden character, but did you mark the box specifically to make it invisible in the simulation? I think if you hide a character it's supposed to be removed from the simulation but given how dreadfully fucking terrible this program is, it's better not to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[lobotomist]

Sorry for the stupid question. But:

How do you get the genesis 8 default genitalia? From the name i tought it would come pre installed with genesis 8 figures, but somehow, when I use the search function it's not there.

For context I wanna use these morphs that require it: https://f95zone.to/threads/juicy-wet-cameltoe-for-genesis-8-and-3-females.21996/

 

[osanaiko]

Sorry for the stupid question. But:

How do you get the genesis 8 default genitalia? From the name i tought it would come pre installed with genesis 8 figures, but somehow, when I use the search function it's not there.

For context I wanna use these morphs that require it: https://f95zone.to/threads/juicy-wet-cameltoe-for-genesis-8-and-3-females.21996/

You need at least one of: Victoria 8 / Victoria 8 Pro pack / a "named" Daz offical character for G8 (i.e. Alexandra 8 etc). You can tell for sure from the Daz store by looking the "What's Included and Features" section of the asset page because it will have "anatomical elements" listed if it includes the genitals. Note that you can "try before you buy" (wink wink) the asset from this site's Asset Releases section.

 

[Yuuki4]

I had trouble wit that and the time it took also... Look for Dforce Companion here in assets or follow this link https://f95zone.to/threads/dforce-companion-2-0.128411/ Install it and play with it. It is ease to use and saves a ton of time, and works great.

Awesome, I'll check it out!

 

[immortalkid69]

Awesome, I'll check it out!

do give us a feedback after u tried using it

 

[lobotomist]

You need at least one of: Victoria 8 / Victoria 8 Pro pack / a "named" Daz offical character for G8 (i.e. Alexandra 8 etc). You can tell for sure from the Daz store by looking the "What's Included and Features" section of the asset page because it will have "anatomical elements" listed if it includes the genitals. Note that you can "try before you buy" (wink wink) the asset from this site's Asset Releases section.

thank you!

 

[Yuuki4]

I had trouble wit that and the time it took also... Look for Dforce Companion here in assets or follow this link https://f95zone.to/threads/dforce-companion-2-0.128411/ Install it and play with it. It is ease to use and saves a ton of time, and works great.

Yea... nope. Still not working. They are the exact same, simulation-settings, what's visible etc. I made sure both Base genesis 8 characters are located in the absolute world-origin. Still no dice. I can reproduce the working scene fine in a new scene so there's that. I fucking hate dForce.

 

[immortalkid69]

Yea... nope. Still not working. They are the exact same, simulation-settings, what's visible etc. I made sure both Base genesis 8 characters are located in the absolute world-origin. Still no dice. I can reproduce the working scene fine in a new scene so there's that. I fucking hate dForce.

i like dforce since it lets me solve the wrapping issue over body without exporting it to zbrush or marvelous designer. But yeah its got issues.

 

[tripod70]

Yea... nope. Still not working. They are the exact same, simulation-settings, what's visible etc. I made sure both Base genesis 8 characters are located in the absolute world-origin. Still no dice. I can reproduce the working scene fine in a new scene so there's that. I fucking hate dForce.

You still have to hide things, but not as much, and I don't do the full sim... I add a dforce dynamitic surface some times to a surface, and just simulate the selected garment. That is the easist way I have found so far ??? Milage may very some for others... If an arm gets in the way I have hid a section of arm or hand before. It's kind of rare here of late though. I like the ease that it can be used. It works with out having to go to the paticular part and select it. Juts select it in the top box, and go...

 

[Yuuki4]

You still have to hide things, but not as much, and I don't do the full sim... I add a dforce dynamitic surface some times to a surface, and just simulate the selected garment. That is the easist way I have found so far ??? Milage may very some for others... If an arm gets in the way I have hid a section of arm or hand before. It's kind of rare here of late though. I like the ease that it can be used. It works with out having to go to the paticular part and select it. Juts select it in the top box, and go...

That's the thing though, there's nothing to hide left. I've hidden everything, both in the scene and in the simulation. In the simulation there's nothing visible except the cloak. This setup, with the EXACT same simulation-settings works in a new scene, but not in this scene. It's the same base-cloak, with a base G8F. No hair, jewelry or ANY other clothing.

In this scene it explodes 100% of the time and I have no fucking clue why. This is why I said dForce is inconsistent. If this exact same set-up works in another scene, it SHOULD work here too. But it doesn't.

The dForce companion is nice though, it makes dForce a bit more stream-lined to use just a shame that it still doesn't un-fuck dForce itself. It was def worth a try.

 

[Yuuki4]

i like dforce since it lets me solve the wrapping issue over body without exporting it to zbrush or marvelous designer. But yeah its got issues.

It's not like I'm trying to do anything amazing with it, I'm literally just asking dForce to drape this cloak down like 3-4 cm so I don't have that gap by the arm and the cloak. That's it. But dForce says no :/ In that scene it won't even let me simulate that cloak in the most basic of basic settings, even when everything is identical to a working scene-setup. It's fucking weird. This is genuinely one of the most baffling wtf-issues I've encountered with DAZ so far.

 

[immortalkid69]

It's not like I'm trying to do anything amazing with it, I'm literally just asking dForce to drape this cloak down like 3-4 cm so I don't have that gap by the arm and the cloak. That's it. But dForce says no :/ In that scene it won't even let me simulate that cloak in the most basic of basic settings, even when everything is identical to a working scene-setup. It's fucking weird. This is genuinely one of the most baffling wtf-issues I've encountered with DAZ so far.

View attachment 2208582

marvelous designer works in situations like these