3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

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Xavster

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Mar 27, 2018
467
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There is a lot of pressure on new game developers not to use the same models that everyone else is using, so that makes it harder, especially for those who are really new to Daz 3D like me, when we try to do something unique and modify the model so they don't look like everything else. The limited knowledge led to some novice mistakes, and I have re-rendered virtually all of my sprites at least twice (and some three times) to fix the mistakes I made the first time. Oh well, better to do it now than to be halfway through my game, right?
A very quick way of creating solid characters is to blend a couple of character morphs from assets. Hence take 50% from one character and 50% from another character. Also morph the face and body separately. Always check the face morph with a number of preset facial expressions to ensure it doesn't become distorted. Also don't underestimate the importance of a skin in the creation of a character, as it can completely change the appearance.

Say for example you have 4 character assets. By taking 50% one character + 50% another character + skin, you have 48 unique faces (4 x 3 x 4).
 

Lednah

Active Member
Nov 24, 2017
254
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The limited knowledge led to some novice mistakes, and I have re-rendered virtually all of my sprites at least twice (and some three times) to fix the mistakes I made the first time. Oh well, better to do it now than to be halfway through my game, right?
True. But mistakes always will happen - due to overexposure or underexposure, glints on unsuitable spots, small mistakes in the shaders (recently the deep translucency on the top of a hair made this top translucent), deep shadows etc. Therefore the companies which produce animations render in passes (layers). A single second of animations requires at least 20 frames and it is practically impossible to render even a single second w/o artifacts; so they render those frames in passes (diffuse, reflections, shadows etc), then a Photoshop guy removes the artifacts and then all the passes (layers) are combined for the final render.
 

seamanq

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
584
765
A very quick way of creating solid characters is to blend a couple of character morphs from assets. Hence take 50% from one character and 50% from another character. Also morph the face and body separately. Always check the face morph with a number of preset facial expressions to ensure it doesn't become distorted. Also don't underestimate the importance of a skin in the creation of a character, as it can completely change the appearance.

Say for example you have 4 character assets. By taking 50% one character + 50% another character + skin, you have 48 unique faces (4 x 3 x 4).
Yes. That is pretty much what I did for Sandi (who is my avatar and a character in my VN). She was based on Molly HD, but then I did some manual morphing of the face to give her unique features and played with the skin tone, as well as morphing the body more to my liking. With the exception of a few glitches I found, I was pretty happy with her. The 50/50 recommendation is a good one as well. I also like characters where the body (without the head) can be applied or vice versa. I wanted to use Molly because I liked the slightly freckled face, but I made Sandi's skin lighter than Molly's.
 
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seamanq

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Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
584
765
True. But mistakes always will happen - due to overexposure or underexposure, glints on unsuitable spots, small mistakes in the shaders (recently the deep translucency on the top of a hair made this top translucent), deep shadows etc. Therefore the companies which produce animations render in passes (layers). A single second of animations requires at least 20 frames and it is practically impossible to render even a single second w/o artifacts; so they render those frames in passes (diffuse, reflections, shadows etc), then a Photoshop guy removes the artifacts and then all the passes (layers) are combined for the final render.
Yes, I know about the animation situation as well. I created some animations from presets that were for Gen 3 models, so I had to convert from Gen 3 -> Gen 8, but then I also needed to tweak the poses to match the exact body sizes of my models so the hands and genitalia would be properly positioned. And I am certain that my animation attempts would be considered most rudimentary in comparison to most.
 

Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
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Guys i have another two very noob question. How much it takes to render 4 naked genesis3 figures (2 males and 2 females) with little to nothing as background just the dome and a plain where they will stand. And now comes the second question, How can i make a semitransparent flat watery plain, with very few ripples?
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2018
467
3,684
Guys i have another two very noob question. How much it takes to load 4 naked genesis 3 figures (2 males and 2 females) with little to nothing as background just the dome and a plain where they will stand. And now comes the second question, How can i make a semitransparent flat watery plain, with very few ripples?
4 naked figures shouldn't be too bad, so I would guess around 8GB of total memory (motherboard RAM). Figure geometry / textures are real memory hogs.

A water pane is easy to create, provided you have a water shader. There are several assets out there with shader presets and others with water props such as Rigged Water Iray. You can also copy / paste the surface properties out of any asset with water in it. There are 2 main options you can use to create a ripple effect.
1) Have 3D ripples in the water surface itself. You can use a prop, create in something like blender or use dFormers (wouldn't recommend the dFormer path).
2) Have a perfectly flat pane, but use with a bump or normal map.

I created example above in a few minutes using the following steps:
1) Add Primitive \ Plane
2) Add water shader to plane (Rigged Water Iray). You can play around with refraction index to balance reflection / refraction.
3) Add normal map to plane (Traveller Uber Iray Shaders \ Universal Modifier \ Ripples)
3) Pose and shoot

Note: You can change the period of the ripples (distance between peaks) by changing the horizontal / vertical tiles value. Also the amplitude of the ripple can be changed by varying the value against the normal map.

PS: Loved you latest render in the "Show us your Dazskill" thread.
 
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Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
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4 naked figures shouldn't be too bad, so I would guess around 8GB of total memory (motherboard RAM). Figure geometry / textures are real memory hogs.

A water pane is easy to create, provided you have a water shader. There are several assets out there with shader presets and others with water props such as Rigged Water Iray. You can also copy / paste the surface properties out of any asset with water in it. There are 2 main options you can use to create a ripple effect.
1) Have 3D ripples in the water surface itself. You can use a prop, create in something like blender or use dFormers (wouldn't recommend the dFormer path).
2) Have a perfectly flat pane, but use with a bump or normal map.

I created example above in a few minutes using the following steps:
1) Add Primitive \ Plane
2) Add water shader to plane (Rigged Water Iray). You can play around with refraction index to balance reflection / refraction.
3) Add normal map to plane (Traveller Uber Iray Shaders \ Universal Modifier \ Ripples)
3) Pose and shoot

PS: Loved you latest render in the "Show us your Dazskill" thread.
Thank you for the very detailed response, what im trying to do is to make a very flat plane, give it a water shader but with a very high transparence, low opacity. And then place 2 figure over the plane and the other two under the plane like they were mirrored.

PS: Thx you very much, it makes the efforts worth it.
 

Lednah

Active Member
Nov 24, 2017
254
167
Thank you for the very detailed response, what im trying to do is to make a very flat plane, give it a water shader but with a very high transparence, low opacity. And then place 2 figure over the plane and the other two under the plane like they were mirrored.

PS: Thx you very much, it makes the efforts worth it.
For lake and pools I recommend downloading those free shaders from CGtrader:


Unfortunately when comes to creating ripples and such the Iray render sux. There are some nearly useless ripples and such created as props but they sux too. There is a site with a script which is supposed to make custom water props but I couldn't make it work under Daz (it was designed for Poser). May be able to find the link if some1 is interested.
water_booty_no_opacity_112513.png
 
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Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
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For lake and pools I recommend downloading those free shaders from CGtrader:

View attachment 240102
Thx man, but as you can see, this water have an high percentage of reflection. What i need is a water plane almost witn no re flection and slightly less transparent than glass.

Like this one, but with very few ripple almost flat and less reflection. 00-main-sy-pool-waters-iray-daz3d.jpg
 

Lednah

Active Member
Nov 24, 2017
254
167
Basically for water surfaces using the Fresnel "shader" is very important. When the water surface is close to the view point and you look at it vertically, the reflections are less and the transparency of the water is higher. With looking at the away point and under a lesser angle the water becomes practically non-transparent and reflective as a mirror.
 

Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
1,176
Basically for water surfaces using the Fresnel "shader" is very important. When the water surface is close to the view point and you look at it vertically, the reflections are less and the transparency of the water is higher. With looking at the away point and under a lesser angle the water becomes practically non-transparent and reflective as a mirror.
Thats what im trying to do, a very high transparent plane with a low angle camera.
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2018
467
3,684
Thank you for the very detailed response, what im trying to do is to make a very flat plane, give it a water shader but with a very high transparence, low opacity. And then place 2 figure over the plane and the other two under the plane like they were mirrored.

PS: Thx you very much, it makes the efforts worth it.
There are many, many options and adjustments that can be done with a water pane. Just play around until you have something you like.

With reference to the artistic goal and what you mentioned earlier, it appears that you want to create an image with 4 figures, however 2 of them are copies of the other 2. Rather than having 4 full Genesis figure, the mirrored figures should be done as node instances of the first 2.

To achieve this select the Genesis figure, then from the main menu select Create \ New Node Instance. To achieve a perfect mirror effect about the Y=0 pane, have the node instance overlaying the original figure and then set the Y scaling to -100. Example as below:

Note: As an added advantage the node instance uses the same texture maps as the original and hence will use less memory and render faster.
 
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Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
1,176
There are many, many options and adjustments that can be done with a water pane. Just play around until you have something you like.

With reference to the artistic goal and what you mentioned earlier, it appears that you want to create an image with 4 figures, however 2 of them are copies of the other 2. Rather than having 4 full Genesis figure, the mirrored figures should be done as node instances of the first 2.

To achieve this select the Genesis figure, then from the main menu select Create \ New Node Instance. To achieve a perfect mirror effect about the Y=0 pane, have the node instance overlaying the original figure and then set the Y scaling to -100. Example as below:

Note: As an added advantage the node instance uses the same texture maps as the original and hence will use less memory and render faster.
Wow what you showed is exactly what im going to do with the exception that i will still need 4 indipendent figures for my scene.
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2018
467
3,684
Wow what you showed is exactly what im going to do with the exception that i will still need 4 indipendent figures for my scene.
As a concept, if you have Heaven characters above the pane and Hell characters below the pane, you will need 4 character models. However if you elect to pose above and below the pane the same, but mirrored through the floor, you can still use the Y scale = -100 trick. You could also do exactly the same thing with a vertical mirror by just scaling the X or Z to -100 instead.

Also note that if you are using custom posing, you can still transfer these poses quickly to another character using File \ Save As \ Pose Preset. The saved pose preset will show up in your "My Library" section in the Content Library.
 
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Nomec104

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
299
1,176
As a concept, if you have Heaven characters above the pane and Hell characters below the pane, you will need 4 character models. However if you elect to pose above and below the pane the same, but mirrored through the floor, you can still use the Y scale = -100 trick. You could also do exactly the same thing with a vertical mirror by just scaling the X or Z to -100 instead.

Also note that if you are using custom posing, you can still transfer these poses quickly to another character using File \ Save As \ Pose Preset. The saved pose preset will show up in your "My Library" section in the Content Library.
Yeah i'm trying to do something along those lines. We'll see what comes out of it.
 

Lednah

Active Member
Nov 24, 2017
254
167
If you kill the reflections and the Fresnel effect the look of the scene will become like it is in a cup of water, not in a lake of water; but maybe you can put the camera underwater - this way the underwater bodies will look mostly normal and the water-air border will have only refraction w/o distorting the air bodies a lot.


EDIT:
The script I wrote about few posts earlier - ; it is supposed to generate custom props for realistic water splashes and ripples; it is supposed to work wird DS 4.6+ but I didn't succeed to launch it under DS. If some1 is interested please look into it; there should be a download link:
 

Holy Bacchus

Active Member
Dec 13, 2018
348
435
Still new to Daz and getting to grips with it fairly well but came across a problem with the first character I'm building. Basically, I had added hair and clothes to them then saved it as a Character Preset but I've just loaded it up to continue working on it and the clothes and hair are gone. The only thing there is just the body and all the work I did has effectively been erased. What went wrong? Did I save it as the wrong file type or what?
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2018
467
3,684
Still new to Daz and getting to grips with it fairly well but came across a problem with the first character I'm building. Basically, I had added hair and clothes to them then saved it as a Character Preset but I've just loaded it up to continue working on it and the clothes and hair are gone. The only thing there is just the body and all the work I did has effectively been erased. What went wrong? Did I save it as the wrong file type or what?
The best way to avoid this is to use scene subset rather than character preset. The scene subset will grab all the children items of any parent selected.

The character preset save does not consider hair / clothes to be part of the character. I don't use this menu option at all for this reason.
 

Lednah

Active Member
Nov 24, 2017
254
167
Folks, how exactly the game reviews are written? I looked around and didn't saw a correspondent button?
 

seamanq

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
584
765
If you go to the OP page for the game you want to rate, in the upper right you will see the "stars" for the ratings. Click on the stars, and it will give you the opportunity to submit a rating. There is a minimum character count for ratings (you have to write at least a little bit in addition to giving the rating). You can feel free to use to test this :) (<-- shameless plug).
 
5.00 star(s) 1 Vote