VN Ren'Py Onhold A Bittersweet Love [v0.1 Demo] [TheWiitzGuy]

5.00 star(s) 1 Vote

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
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It's meant to be both, be faithful to the girlfriend or to start relationships with the other girls, you will be able to have a affair with every girl at the same time, but I can't guarantee it won't come to bite you in the ass later, so no complete harem route. However some girls could come to an agreement and work it out together.
First, cheating on the girlfriend doesn't interest me.

Second, if there is no harem ending, unless some of the other LIs want to form a triangle with the MC and his girlfriend, I have no incentive or interest in starting any relationship with the other LIs.

So if I play, my only interest will be the girlfriend.
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
Oh I see this is another of those fake harem games. Well good luck with that and with the sharing. Hahaha
It's not like you need to end up with every single character that appears in the game, that's why there isn't a harem tag on it. The sharing thing I didn't even say it was MMF, so I don't know where you trying to get. There is room for more than complete harem games.
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
If there is already incest in the game (the twins), I don't think it would be a bad idea to include incest but where the MC is directly involved.

This is just my opinion. I don't know if it will fit well in the story you want to tell, but to me, if in a game there is incest but the MC is not the one doing it with his family and it's about other characters, that's pretty much turn off to me. It's not the same thing. Idk. Maybe it's just me.
When I mentioned the incest I said that for now the incest will be about the twins, because I plan on introducing MC family later, but at the right moment of the story.
 

Kalsan

Member
Mar 19, 2020
411
2,674
It's not like you need to end up with every single character that appears in the game, that's why there isn't a harem tag on it. The sharing thing I didn't even say it was MMF, so I don't know where you trying to get. There is room for more than complete harem games.
Yeah true but the premise of your game doesn't work well with single love interest routes. Just 3 quick points there are more but enough for you to get an idea
1- Forcing a girlfriend on the protagonist you give the players 2 choices braking her heart like an asshole or been faithful (This is one of the reasons default girlfriends get so much hate)
2- Adding multiple family members as LI like a sister or a mother. What? Are you going to make the players choose between those 2 after the mc fuck them? Like oni-chan how could you break out with me for mom after taking my virginity you monster! You get my point right?
3- Now about the sharing, people don't get to annoyed if you share the Harem girls with each other but a lot of people are going to complain if it's with someone that isn't in a relationship with the protagonist.

Those are 3 small point there is more, you premise is perfect for a harem but terrible for "choose one or two tops" kind of game. Well you game your rules, good luck anyway.
 
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BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,807
10,238
Yeah true but the premise of your game doesn't work well with single love interest routes. Just 3 quick points there are more but enough for you to get an idea
1- Forcing a girlfriend on the protagonist you give the players 2 choices braking her heart like an asshole or been faithful (This is one of the reasons default girlfriends get so much hate)
2- Adding multiple family members as LI like a sister or a mother. What? Are you going to make the players choose between those 2 after the mc fuck them? Like oni-chan how could you break out with me for mom after taking my virginity you monster! You get my point right?
3- Now about the sharing, people don't get to annoyed if you share the Harem girls with each other but a lot of people are going to complain if it's with someone that isn't in a relationship with the protagonist.

Those are 3 small point there is more, you premise is perfect for a harem but terrible for "choose one or two tops" kind of game. Well you game your rules, good luck anyway.
If there is no harem, and the MC has a girlfriend, I don't see any reason to be interested in other LIs.

Also, any lesbian scene of the MC's girlfriend will be NTR, unless the MC is in a relationship with both LIs (and they both have to know and agree to it). In any case, lesbian scenes bore me, so I have no interest in them at best.

Including several members of the MC's family (I guess at least mother and sister) as LI, without being a harem and already having a pre-established girlfriend... the truth is that isn't cool.
 

Kalsan

Member
Mar 19, 2020
411
2,674
If there is no harem, and the MC has a girlfriend, I don't see any reason to be interested in other LIs.

Also, any lesbian scene of the MC's girlfriend will be NTR, unless the MC is in a relationship with both LIs (and they both have to know and agree to it). In any case, lesbian scenes bore me, so I have no interest in them at best.

Including several members of the MC's family (I guess at least mother and sister) as LI, without being a harem and already having a pre-established girlfriend... the truth is that isn't cool.
As I said his ideas are pretty good for a harem but it doesn't work in single love interest games. It's not like I'm bitch about it without reason. If we research the best single love interest games out there we see that they are mostly single MCs, without incest and with minimal lesbian interaction. And if analyse harem game we see things like starting girlfriends that are the catalyst or at least allow the harem, a lot of incest and lesbian content between harem members isn't uncommon. You see my point?
 

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,807
10,238
As I said his ideas are pretty good for a harem but it doesn't work in single love interest games. It's not like I'm bitch about it without reason. If we research the best single love interest games out there we see that they are mostly single MCs, without incest and with minimal lesbian interaction. And if analyse harem game we see things like starting girlfriends that are the catalyst or at least allow the harem, a lot of incest and lesbian content between harem members isn't uncommon. You see my point?
I was basically agreeing with you, at least from my perspective.

The premise is good for a harem game (or for someone who doesn't care or likes to cheat on the MC's girlfriend and try to fuck them all, until the thing goes down the toilet)

Actually playing a game with 8 LIs (for now), plus possible incest (at least 2 more LIs), and that the only reasonable route (in my opinion) is that the MC doesn't cheat on the girlfriend, isn't too nice.
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
Yeah true but the premise of your game doesn't work well with single love interest routes. Just 3 quick points there are more but enough for you to get an idea
1- Forcing a girlfriend on the protagonist you give the players 2 choices braking her heart like an asshole or been faithful (This is one of the reasons default girlfriends get so much hate)
2- Adding multiple family members as LI like a sister or a mother. What? Are you going to make the players choose between those 2 after the mc fuck them? Like oni-chan how could you break out with me for mom after taking my virginity you monster! You get my point right?
3- Now about the sharing, people don't get to annoyed if you share the Harem girls with each other but a lot of people are going to complain if it's with someone that isn't in a relationship with the protagonist.

Those are 3 small point there is more, you premise is perfect for a harem but terrible for "choose one or two tops" kind of game. Well you game your rules, good luck anyway.
While I do understand what you're saying, what is the point of choosing? Do you think a choice should be decisive or just momentary? I could just put a choice in the game like that. "Do you want the mc to have a relationship with this character?", what would be the point? It would be bland. If every character is okay with sharing right from the start there is no point in making a story line with problems related to relationships for example.
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TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
If there is no harem, and the MC has a girlfriend, I don't see any reason to be interested in other LIs.

Also, any lesbian scene of the MC's girlfriend will be NTR, unless the MC is in a relationship with both LIs (and they both have to know and agree to it). In any case, lesbian scenes bore me, so I have no interest in them at best.

Including several members of the MC's family (I guess at least mother and sister) as LI, without being a harem and already having a pre-established girlfriend... the truth is that isn't cool.
Guys then we don't have the same understanding on harem, for me I always considered harem as: Every girl is an option at any time and it has absolutely no consequences for the narrative, they will always be taken for granted and sort out all their differences as simple as sharing lunch with friends in school. However if you mean harem as you can choose more than one girl, then yes it is a harem, it's not a single choice, you can date multiple girls and see every bit of story, but some choices might bring some tricky moments.
 

Kalsan

Member
Mar 19, 2020
411
2,674
While I do understand what you're saying, what is the point of choosing? Do you think a choice should be decisive or just momentary?
I mean you could do like a hundred different path with little variations of the same event and add to that mix "temporary decisions". Look I'm not saying it can't be done but why do you think that's not how most of AVN are? Because is an extremely slow and complicated why of writing a story and people don't want to sit trough the game multiple time to see minimum variations of the same events.

I could just put a choice in the game like that. "Do you want the mc to have a relationship with this character?", what would be the point? It would be bland. If every character is okay with sharing right from the start there is no point in making a story line with problems related to relationships for example.
And it seem you don't understand our point at all, we naver said anything about them been ok from the start, not at all. A good amount of drama is a good way of making a game interesting, as long as all the girls get to be okey with sharing at the end. I mean most harem players I know are more of "the ending is usually more important than the path that leads to it" meaning you can put all the drama you want that if by the end of the whole thing we got a harem we are happy. But if you are planning of throwing the protagonist down a rollercoaster of drama, emotions and girls only for the protagonist to fail miserably at the end then yeah that's not good.
3- You can't share something that isn't yours, if you decide that you have no interest over someone, then it won't be sharing, anything that happens will be a side story between the other characters and there is no point in complaining about a content that isn't related to MC anymore, but if you like one and not the other you will still have a choice, remember when I said it was optional?
You see right there you are going down the path of destruction haha, no people don't want to see LI get fucked by anyone that isn't them in AVN, they can tolerate or even like if is lesbian content from 2 girls that are within a harem or something similar, but we don't want to see it in any other setting. What make you think that if we rejected someone we want to see more content about her? Nah most players that don't like a LI would prefer if she disappeared completely from the story if you reject her (because steal screen time aeay from they favourite LI) and putting her in a sexual setting after we rejected her is even worse.
Guys then we don't have the same understanding on harem, for me I always considered harem as: Every girl is an option at any time and it has absolutely no consequences for the narrative, they will always be taken for granted and sort out all their differences as simple as sharing lunch with friends in school. However if you mean harem as you can choose more than one girl, then yes it is a harem, it's not a single choice, you can date multiple girls and see every bit of story, but some choices might bring some tricky moments.
You are mistaken on both definition if by the end (and by that I mean an ending) the protagonist is with all the girls in a serious relationship thats a harem. Girls don't need to be ok from the start as I said before.

Man I don't want you to get defensive because I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just having a conversation that's all.

Look I see what you are trying to do, you want to make a grandiose and revolutionary story and that's ok. But you are ignoring troupes, cliches and ways of doing things that are commonly used in AVN for a reason. You call what is normally done in the industry "bland" and I disagree with you, those bland choices you mentioned are there for a reason (be it please your target fanbase, making the game a little easier to write or develop etc). Game is yours and your are free to do as you please of course but I want you to understand that the "wheel" is already invented, now what you are doing is giving it a square form and seen if it works better. But you aren't going to change your mind, I'm a writer too, I know how stubborn we can be with our stories and stuff, you are going to trigger a lot of landmines going forward but I wholeheartedly wish you good luck either way.
 

WastedTalent

Active Member
Dec 11, 2020
914
1,463
I mean you could do like a hundred different path with little variations of the same event and add to that mix "temporary decisions". Look I'm not saying it can't be done but why do you think that's not how most of AVN are? Because is an extremely slow and complicated why of writing a story and people don't want to sit trough the game multiple time to see minimum variations of the same events.


And it seem you don't understand our point at all, we naver said anything about them been ok from the start, not at all. A good amount of drama is a good way of making a game interesting, as long as all the girls get to be okey with sharing at the end. I mean most harem players I know are more of "the ending is usually more important than the path that leads to it" meaning you can put all the drama you want that if by the end of the whole thing we got a harem we are happy. But if you are planning of throwing the protagonist down a rollercoaster of drama, emotions and girls only for the protagonist to fail miserably at the end then yeah that's not good.

You see right there you are going down the path of destruction haha, no people don't want to see LI get fucked by anyone that isn't them in AVN, they can tolerate or even like if is lesbian content from 2 girls that are within a harem or something similar, but we don't want to see it in any other setting. What make you think that if we rejected someone we want to see more content about her? Nah most players that don't like a LI would prefer if she disappeared completely from the story if you reject her (because steal screen time aeay from they favourite LI) and putting her in a sexual setting after we rejected her is even worse.

You are mistaken on both definition if by the end (and by that I mean an ending) the protagonist is with all the girls in a serious relationship thats a harem. Girls don't need to be ok from the start as I said before.

Man I don't want you to get defensive because I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just having a conversation that's all.

Look I see what you are trying to do, you want to make a grandiose and revolutionary story and that's ok. But you are ignoring troupes, cliches and ways of doing things that are commonly used in AVN for a reason. You call what is normally done in the industry "bland" and I disagree with you, those bland choices you mentioned are there for a reason (be it please your target fanbase, making the game a little easier to write or develop etc). Game is yours and your are free to do as you please of course but I want you to understand that the "wheel" is already invented, now what you are doing is giving it a square form and seen if it works better. But you aren't going to change your mind, I'm a writer too, I know how stubborn we can be with our stories and stuff, you are going to trigger a lot of landmines going forward but I wholeheartedly wish you good luck either way.
Your final points here are exactly right the wheel is round and smooth for a reason. I won't even bother because it sounds like this is just going to be a cluster of a story arc. Good luck dev I think you are going to need it.
 
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Crowangel

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2021
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1,651
so far so... Great
I'm very interested to see where this goes as from what i've played so far the stoy and narrative are quite good..
Visuals are good and even tho some of the early seen animation/cinematics are a little stuttering the visuals and quality feel high quality..
Its obvious that time has been well spend on this title although an option to increase the text size might be needed as sometimes it was needing a double pass over to read what was actually written due to the font type but its not a flaw just an inconvenience..
Good luck on this it shows promise
 

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,807
10,238
Guys then we don't have the same understanding on harem, for me I always considered harem as: Every girl is an option at any time and it has absolutely no consequences for the narrative, they will always be taken for granted and sort out all their differences as simple as sharing lunch with friends in school. However if you mean harem as you can choose more than one girl, then yes it is a harem, it's not a single choice, you can date multiple girls and see every bit of story, but some choices might bring some tricky moments.
It's not exactly how the forum defines the tag, but I (and I think more players with me) consider a harem game when the MC can end the game having a relationship, known and consensual, with basically all or almost all the LIs in the game.

It doesn't have to be easy, but in the end it has to be doable. In fact I don't see why all the LIs should agree without resistance (maybe it is like that in many harem games, but in others you have to convince at least some LIs by earning points with them).

In my case, I'm not a big fan of cheating on LIs, and I prefer the MC to be as honest as possible and that the relationships between him and LIs don't happen behind his girlfriend's back.

The important thing is that the MC can finish the game having a consensual and known relationship with all the LIs.
 
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robrize2169

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2022
1,480
3,072
just started playing this and so far, 1 minor issue ..please make the text size bigger. with the font style its kind of hard to read for those of us without perfect eyesight. some games have the option to alter to font size..and this one needs that big time. hope the dev sees this and adds that feature in future versions..
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
so far so... Great
I'm very interested to see where this goes as from what i've played so far the stoy and narrative are quite good..
Visuals are good and even tho some of the early seen animation/cinematics are a little stuttering the visuals and quality feel high quality..
Its obvious that time has been well spend on this title although an option to increase the text size might be needed as sometimes it was needing a double pass over to read what was actually written due to the font type but its not a flaw just an inconvenience..
Good luck on this it shows promise
Hey thanks, yeah it was my first atempt ever on trying to "animate" in rendering if I can call this animate, I still have a lot to improve on, specially on that, it's good to know some people are more understanding on "this is all very new to me", I don't expect to make something perfect, I've never done something perfect. But I'm sure I can get better and with time make this into something worth the time. The text I already reverted to normal in the new version I'm working on.
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
It's not exactly how the forum defines the tag, but I (and I think more players with me) consider a harem game when the MC can end the game having a relationship, known and consensual, with basically all or almost all the LIs in the game.

It doesn't have to be easy, but in the end it has to be doable. In fact I don't see why all the LIs should agree without resistance (maybe it is like that in many harem games, but in others you have to convince at least some LIs by earning points with them).

In my case, I'm not a big fan of cheating on LIs, and I prefer the MC to be as honest as possible and that the relationships between him and LIs don't happen behind his girlfriend's back.

The important thing is that the MC can finish the game having a consensual and known relationship with all the LIs.
I understand what you are saying, my plans are for the relationships to evolve with time, for them to know each other as friends and from that it can turn into something more, it won't be only a lighthearted story, there will be drama and some disagreements, and some will depend on the player's choices, for me it isn't worth giving a choice if in the end the path is always the same. The relationship points I'm already using for the new version. I'll be honest, for the story I have in mind, I don't see an easy way to just throw in breaches for them to all get together and happy, but for them to see new connections form from the forbidden and along the way work it out and be happy, that's where the name comes from, Bittersweet as something good. But with not so good parts, however in the end it is all about them sorting it all out, isn't it? Yet I don't rule out the possibility of a relationship arising without cheating, if a convincing moment presents itself, I just want to make it clear, cheating is a part of the game(avoidable, but with a lot of content), at least for a while.
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
just started playing this and so far, 1 minor issue ..please make the text size bigger. with the font style its kind of hard to read for those of us without perfect eyesight. some games have the option to alter to font size..and this one needs that big time. hope the dev sees this and adds that feature in future versions..
The text is already reverted to normal in the new version I'm working on, I also added 4 options of sizes to choose in the preferences.
 

e-disfunction

Active Member
Jun 1, 2019
731
713
Yeah I believe it has something to do with the font, I might change it later to fix this issue, it annoyed me at first but I guess from seeing it all the time I started to ignore it lol, and about the text size, I may try to set it to be custom, I just need to learn how to do it. Thanks for the feedback.
No one has mentioned this: A font *must* be invisible when you are reading! It can provide atmosphere, intent, and colour to what is read, but it should *not* be seen by the reader. (y)

The font is *part* of the message but not the entire message — if the reader is distracted by the font then the message is interrupted and not fully communicated.

e-d :)
 

TheWiitzGuy

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2022
23
58
No one has mentioned this: A font *must* be invisible when you are reading! It can provide atmosphere, intent, and colour to what is read, but it should *not* be seen by the reader. (y)

The font is *part* of the message but not the entire message — if the reader is distracted by the font then the message is interrupted and not fully communicated.

e-d :)
I think I understand what you said, and I agree with you. It does take a lot of your attention, even reading a plain font sometimes you don't even take a good look at the render on the background.
 
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