ZanithOneHello. I enjoyed seeing romanian names in the story, but there is an issue. Viorel is a male name in romania. it is a reference to the flower violet. however, we use it only for males. for females there is the Violeta version (more modern) or Viorea (a bit more ancient and outdated).
- Oct 9, 2017
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That's good and all but I wouldn't say there was an error with that. If I'm remembering that scene correctly they weren't even on the MC's/our Earth. There is no real way to know their culture. It may have been similar but I don't think it was "home".
then, based on your argument, it would be no issue naming the other girls names like Frank, Pierre, Oleg, Mamoru, Mirko, Hasan, Fernando or Frederik.
- Jun 8, 2021
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yeah, because in those other worlds that would be normal, I would have a few qualms yelling out frank while im inside of a woman, but in universe 1093892 thats completely normal.
- Oct 9, 2017
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If that's how it works in their realm, then sure? My response was about the fact that they aren't even on earth, not so much about the names themselves. A name is just a name in the end.
I believe someone mentioned this before.
Yes I agree it can be annoying if you know about it, but seriously the dev, and probably most of the players, doesn't. It would probably be a bad idea to change the name now.
- Jan 3, 2018
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Different countries use the same names (or very similar) for different genders.
e.g. Michelle is specifically female, in English. Whereas Michele is male, in Italian (the pronunciation is notably different, to be fair).
Maria is a common male middle name, in central Europe. It's distinctly female in English.
As our own countries have these differences, it shouldn't really come as a surprise that different worlds do, too.
hi i have put the unlocker.rpy file in the game folder but does not seem to work. am i doing something wrong (Mac_OS)
About Maria, yeah, you have a slew of famous people who did use it as a middle name, usually nobles. On the same note, one of the most famous military commanders of Royal France is a dude named Anne de Montmorency. In the same language, Michel (pronounced the same as Michelle) is a male name if you use that spelling.
My argument about Viorel was improperly built. I should have pointed out specifically, by using words `hey, if you used some kind of translation software, it might have not given you the best result`, that, as far as i am concerned, there might be an issue with the translation.
- Oct 5, 2017
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What makes you think that it is about translation at all, that there was any translation software used at any point as opposed to thinking "Hmm, Viorel sounds like a good name for an elf girl"?
i think i explained in my original post why i would think that
- Jun 4, 2019
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Okay, are we getting into the whole names thing again?
There's no point in debating this, as people will take names that sound better for a character, they will take what fits the idea. So let's take "Viorel" as an example, seeing as it is being bandied about.
Viorel. Vee-or-el. It rolls off the tongue. It is a soft sound that drops to a whisper.
So let's look at the "actual" feminine version, Violeta. Vy-o-let-ah. It's a slightly harsher sound. It doesn't possess that slight drop.
If we were writing an elven character, considering some of the main cultural touchstones we know in the AHITR universe, many elves have a softer sounding name, one that rolls off the tongue more easily.
But let's take a look at another name, one that is unisex and came about on it's own in several wildly different countries, Andrea. Italian name, it is considered to be masculine, but across most of Northern and Western Europe, it is considered to be a feminine name.
Akira, a Japanese name that is considered to be unisex, while in Scotland it means "anchor".
Do I need to go on?
Or perhaps, we should talk about people who were born with names that we would consider to be for the opposite gender, like Marion Robert Morrison, aka John Wayne. Or Leslie Nielsen. Or Lindsey Buckingham (Co-vocalist for Fleetwood Mac). Or Cameron Diaz. Or Darryl Hannah. Or Glenn Close.
Names mean jack shit. This isn't supposed to upset anyone, but names really don't matter much.
There's no point in debating this, as people will take names that sound better for a character, they will take what fits the idea. So let's take "Viorel" as an example, seeing as it is being bandied about.
Viorel. Vee-or-el. It rolls off the tongue. It is a soft sound that drops to a whisper.
So let's look at the "actual" feminine version, Violeta. Vy-o-let-ah. It's a slightly harsher sound. It doesn't possess that slight drop.
If we were writing an elven character, considering some of the main cultural touchstones we know in the AHITR universe, many elves have a softer sounding name, one that rolls off the tongue more easily.
But let's take a look at another name, one that is unisex and came about on it's own in several wildly different countries, Andrea. Italian name, it is considered to be masculine, but across most of Northern and Western Europe, it is considered to be a feminine name.
Akira, a Japanese name that is considered to be unisex, while in Scotland it means "anchor".
Do I need to go on?
Or perhaps, we should talk about people who were born with names that we would consider to be for the opposite gender, like Marion Robert Morrison, aka John Wayne. Or Leslie Nielsen. Or Lindsey Buckingham (Co-vocalist for Fleetwood Mac). Or Cameron Diaz. Or Darryl Hannah. Or Glenn Close.
Names mean jack shit. This isn't supposed to upset anyone, but names really don't matter much.
- Aug 14, 2017
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I for one find it endearing to hear Romanian names and it's always nice to see different cultures represented respectfully and naturally in indie games (AAA games seem to suck at it lately). Hell in my headcanon the elves in that world are what we'd call Romanians on Earth so I always wonder how the language would form compared to the Earthling counterpart.
Was there Latin on that world? Were the ancient elves the Romans that instead of crumbling because of bad leadership and constant outside threats they crumbled because the humans breed like crazy and took over?
I will concede to the fact that it does sound funny when you know Viorel and Aurel are masculine names but it would also sound funny if the girls were called Bob and Dale and at the end of the day that would be it for most people, it'd sounds funny.
For me it's nice to see your culture represented and I thank Zanith for that (again).
Now I don't get what's going on since IDK who you're replying to so don't take it the wrong way since we both agree complaining about stuff like that is silly. I simply believe it's not as deep and you're making it out to be.
As I said, hearing that a girl is called Bob would be funny/confusing for most people that know Bob is a masculine name.
If this whole discussion is about (what I presume to be) a fellow Romanian pointing out the fact that "Viorel is a masculine name" then your response is kind of exaggerated for some pretty mild "criticism" if we can even call it that. I'm fairly certain Zanith dealt with way crazier people and those are only the interactions I saw on this site.
If said fellow Romanian started a war in the comments and was an aholes for no reason then by all means go ahead and throw the entire library at him and call him out. I hate when people make a stink out of a non issue since it floods the forum with slop.
(Edit)Someone explained what this comment was about so you can take my reply as my POVon the matter at large. I initially thought you replied to someone who's comment got axed so I didn't quite get the context.
We need to talk about important stuff here. Like how breedable Lyriel is and how we'll need more makeup scenes since Goth Lyriel and Femme Fatale Cait were awesome. Can't wait to see what personalities the others would have.
Maybe we'll be graced by Lady Naomi a noble lady from the Americas or Housewife Yona living the simple rural life with her shaman husband or even better Priestess Rae a faithful nun spending her days praying for our salvation.
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- Dec 1, 2019
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Names for fictional characters come in different types.
Sometimes the name is chosen very precisely to be just that, it will be part of the story so to speak. Louis Cypher. Tom Marvolo Riddle/Lord Voldemort. This by the way has included names which made the people around them wonder about their gender (think of "A Boy Named Sue").
Sometimes the name is chosen and includes a small bonus. The brothers Vilkas (Lithuanian for "Wolf") and Farkas (Hungarian for "Wolf") are characters in Skyrim with wolfish attributes. You don't need to know that but it may evoke a chuckle if you do.
And sometimes a name is just a name. I mean people will still think about connotations - names may sound upper class or lower class in their culture and so forth, but apart from that an author is just a parent who will try to give their "child" a name that just works, and whether it's John or George doesn't really carry any implications despite whatever your literature teacher was telling you to read into it. ("'John' has for letters, so it is a four letter word, pointing at all the troubles he will go through, also the vowel 'o' expresses surprise for the same reason.")
And always you will have the problem that there are thousands of languages on earth, and even if we discount New Guinea still a lot remain, and basically everything pronounceable may be a name somewhere. Star Trek tried to name their characters so that they do not carry connotations - yet Deep Space 9's Sisko is "sister" in Finnish. You just cannot do it.
And while I see how it may be confusing to have a name "gender swapped" in your culture, especially when the game may include boinking them and you are not bisexual so it may matter, this stuff has happened already in real life (examples are some above).
There are similar problems when a name is chosen to represent a specific culture and doesn't fit. Many games with a token Asian girl get confused by the Korean and Japanese name order of family name first, which makes it awkward for players who know better. Others include Scandinavian/French/German names because they want a character from that region, only that the name doesn't work for a Scandinavian/Frenchman/German, it just looks vaguely like that from the outside but might not even be correctly pronounceable without stumbling. And yes, that has sent a few shivers down my spine as well.
Then again I met all kinds of people with strange to outrageous names in real life, and after a while I just accept their name. Still cursing their parents maybe, but accept their name and move on. And yes, this includes names which "should be" the opposite gender.
Sometimes the name is chosen very precisely to be just that, it will be part of the story so to speak. Louis Cypher. Tom Marvolo Riddle/Lord Voldemort. This by the way has included names which made the people around them wonder about their gender (think of "A Boy Named Sue").
Sometimes the name is chosen and includes a small bonus. The brothers Vilkas (Lithuanian for "Wolf") and Farkas (Hungarian for "Wolf") are characters in Skyrim with wolfish attributes. You don't need to know that but it may evoke a chuckle if you do.
And sometimes a name is just a name. I mean people will still think about connotations - names may sound upper class or lower class in their culture and so forth, but apart from that an author is just a parent who will try to give their "child" a name that just works, and whether it's John or George doesn't really carry any implications despite whatever your literature teacher was telling you to read into it. ("'John' has for letters, so it is a four letter word, pointing at all the troubles he will go through, also the vowel 'o' expresses surprise for the same reason.")
And always you will have the problem that there are thousands of languages on earth, and even if we discount New Guinea still a lot remain, and basically everything pronounceable may be a name somewhere. Star Trek tried to name their characters so that they do not carry connotations - yet Deep Space 9's Sisko is "sister" in Finnish. You just cannot do it.
And while I see how it may be confusing to have a name "gender swapped" in your culture, especially when the game may include boinking them and you are not bisexual so it may matter, this stuff has happened already in real life (examples are some above).
There are similar problems when a name is chosen to represent a specific culture and doesn't fit. Many games with a token Asian girl get confused by the Korean and Japanese name order of family name first, which makes it awkward for players who know better. Others include Scandinavian/French/German names because they want a character from that region, only that the name doesn't work for a Scandinavian/Frenchman/German, it just looks vaguely like that from the outside but might not even be correctly pronounceable without stumbling. And yes, that has sent a few shivers down my spine as well.
Then again I met all kinds of people with strange to outrageous names in real life, and after a while I just accept their name. Still cursing their parents maybe, but accept their name and move on. And yes, this includes names which "should be" the opposite gender.
- Oct 9, 2017
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Nice post. I think the only thing you didn't bring up was unisex names.
- Jan 3, 2018
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The primary aspect is that he described it as an error\issue, because it's a male name in Romania.
Some people pointed out that the Elves are presumably not from Romania, so perhaps it's not a male name where they (the Elves) are from and, therefore, not an error.
Just because it is an error, in one language, does not mean that it universally is, in all languages.
Names are not fixed to the same gender across our own world, e.g. Nicola, Maria, Michelle, etc.
As it already happens in (RL) different countries, it shouldn't be a surprise that it also happens on different worlds.
If this Elven instance of the name is not Romanian (& there is no valid reason to assume that it is), the premise for him describing it as "an issue" does not exist.
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- Oct 9, 2017
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I'm not sure how that would work. Someone would have to steal it from the MC maybe? It's sitting in your inventory right now so unless there is a mishap somehow I don't see any more scenes like that, unfortunately. At least not with that item. I'm with you on the goth El though. They have made a habit of showing off multiple costumes and not letting us have any fun with them...
Also insane names. Like, who in the right mind would call their child something that is spelled with an em dash (look it up...), squidward (yes, a guy actually tried) or Paris. And yet alas they do.
Names are just as bad as dates really.
- Dec 1, 2019
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It may depend on the country you live in. I mean a name like "X Æ A-12" has the advantage of informing institutions about who should not have kids but otherwise is just assholery by the parents, agreed. (Though, if you are referring to the famous story of "Le-a", pronounced "Ledasha" because of the dash, that has been debunked IIRC)
On the other hand you have countries where there is a list of approved first names and there is no way to get a different one, not even a different spelling. There are countries which do not regulate that much by law but you have to have a certain spelling just because the language has a perfect spelling-pronunciation connection. Some allow for names recognized in other countries others don't.
More pertinent to the discussion here, until quite recently German law included that any kid must have at least one given name from which the gender is recognizable to normal German people - so there is one name which is not unisex, not from a different culture, etc. Which is why many decendants from migrants have a seemingly random assortment of letters as a name with one sore thing sticking out like "Mologuludolo Kurt Malalalalobombo" - but then the Kurt will normally not be used except for official papers (although I know one guy who wants his "Karl" to be used together with the rest of his definitely-not-European-at-all name). However, this law has been canceled due to amongst other things precisely the problem we have here: what is a clearly male name and who is to decide? Northerners have at least in part other names than southerners, so everybody around Hamburg would know whether the Frisian name "Onne" is male or female - but nobody around Munich would even recognize that it's a name.
- Apr 24, 2020
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That reminds me of when the artist sang under the name Ke$ha, I know some people referred to her as "Kadollarha."