Ren'Py A House in the Rift [v0.8.03r2] [Zanith]

[sillyrobot]

It's just a way to introduce the fetish of femdom (in a light form), even if it contradicts the "lore" of the game. One of the reasons I don't follow the path of the pirate butch, I´m not interested in femdom. The scenes of Rae fighting MC and dominating her are just stupid. At least the pirate butch is way bigger than MC. And the worst is, Rae doesn't even need to be a warrior, it doesn't add to the character. She has her intelligence and appeal for getting what she want, doesn't need the fists.

In general the MC doesn't have personality or interest, sadly. I don't like to play as him. I get why women would dominate him, but I don't get why women would feel attracted to him. I would prefer if the dev would have made an interesting background for him instead of a generic blank canvas that can behave either as an asshole or a doormat according the choices.

Right. The invulnerability varies according to plot. That was my original statement. There's nothing wrong with that. It wasn't a complaint -- just an observation.

I suspect the reason the MC is bland is so the player has a canvas to project onto. It's a fairly common trope both in interactive media and more narrative media. As a technique, it tends to engage players right up until it doesn't.

 

[Name356]

I believe Rae actually means MC cannot be harmed in a long lasting and irreversible way, like dying or losing a finger. He could still be beaten, he would still fill pain and maybe even black out, but he will always recover from that.
In any case, Rae is only a succubus, not a goddess, she might get something wrong.



Actually the fighting does add to the character. Rae always prepares for the worse, and rae does her best to keep MC alive no matter what happens. Thus the training, even though Rae doesn't enjoy fighting much.

Well they like you because... Succubus, remember?
View attachment 2678720
MC is you and your background is MC's background.

So... the point of Rae as a character is that, since she's a succubus, she would like everybody? If, instead of MC, she would be at the house with any other people in the earth, she would like him/she just the same because she's a succubus? And the same with the other girls, because there is a succubus around? I don't think that would be a good trait for any character, at all. In that case, it doesn´t matter the choices of MC or the kind of person he is, he will get all the girls eventually anyway...

About Rae being a warrior, she's the smallest person of the house. It´s just absurd, she doesn't have the physical strength. And yes, since she's an imaginary character, the dev can give her any trait he wants. She could fly and have lasers in the eyes, for example. But there are rules and conventions even with imaginary characters. A vampire sucks blood, sleeps during daylight and hates crucifixes. A werewolf transforms in full moon nights and becomes an irrational beast that could kill anybody. Other than that is corrupting the archetype of the character. That's why a lot of people hates "Twilight", for example. And a succubus uses her charm and sex appeal to get her way, no physical strength.

The dev wants to make her a 4.7 feet tall, 90 lbs. Bruce Lee? Well, he can, but it's absurd and it doesn't add to the character. She's even more interesting if she's weak, but she trust in her intelligence and appeal to succeed in all kinds of dangerous situations, as an infernal Mata Hari. If it's important for the plot that MC trains as a fighter (although, so far, it isn't), he could train at the house with the 6.5 feet tall 200 lbs. pirate butch, for example. It would make way more sense.

 

[sillyrobot]

So... the point of Rae as a character is that, since she's a succubus, she would like everybody? If, instead of MC, she would be at the house with any other people in the earth, she would like him/she just the same because she's a succubus? And the same with the other girls, because there is a succubus around? I don't think that would be a good trait for any character, at all. In that case, it doesn´t matter the choices of MC or the kind of person he is, he will get all the girls eventually anyway...

About Rae being a warrior, she's the smallest person of the house. It´s just absurd, she doesn't have the physical strength. And yes, since she's an imaginary character, the dev can give her any trait he wants. She could fly and have lasers in the eyes, for example. But there are rules and conventions even with imaginary characters. A vampire sucks blood, sleeps during daylight and hates crucifixes. A werewolf transforms in full moon nights and becomes an irrational beast that could kill anybody. Other than that is corrupting the archetype of the character. That's why a lot of people hates "Twilight", for example. And a succubus uses her charm and sex appeal to get her way, no physical strength.

The dev wants to make her a 4.7 feet tall, 90 lbs. Bruce Lee? Well, he can, but it's absurd and it doesn't add to the character. She's even more interesting if she's weak, but she trust in her intelligence and appeal to succeed in all kinds of dangerous situations, as an infernal Mata Hari. If it's important for the plot that MC trains as a fighter (although, so far, it isn't), he could train at the house with the 6.5 feet tall 200 lbs. pirate butch, for example. It would make way more sense.

No, the point about the succubus is she emanates an aura that increases libido in others. The MC has no male competitors and the women generally seem to prefer heterosexual activities. So they glom onto the only male present. As a wise woman once told me: "Where the clitoris goes, the heart follows".

 

[Name356]

I suspect the reason the MC is bland is so the player has a canvas to project onto. It's a fairly common trope both in interactive media and more narrative media. As a technique, it tends to engage players right up until it doesn't.

Totally agree. The problem is the choices only allow you to be a childish asshole that is rude and pretends to be in control of the situation and being a powerful mage when he should know the lie is going to blow up really soon, or to be a doormat that only says "Yes" to anything the girls say, in order of making the plot progress. That's not an attractive canvas to project onto.

 

[Name356]

No, the point about the succubus is she emanates an aura that increases libido in others. The MC has no male competitors and the women generally seem to prefer heterosexual activities. So they glom onto the only male present. As a wise woman once told me: "Where the clitoris goes, the heart follows".

So yes, MC is going to get the girls anyway. If MC were fat, bald and ugly, he would get the girls anyway, including the succubus, since there is a succubus around and she emanates the aura, and he has not competitors. That's not an interesting premise, I'm afraid...

 

[sillyrobot]

Totally agree. The problem is the choices only allow you to be a childish asshole that is rude and pretends to be in control of the situation and being a powerful mage when he should know the lie is going to blown up really soon, or to be a doormat that only says "Yes" to anything the girls say, in order of making the plot progress. That's not an attractive canvas to project onto.

I tend to disagree. You can be a blowhard if you want, but the other option isn't a yes-man. I play the MC as generally calm and respectful of others' autonomy while insisting on my own. There are almost always choices to admit your ignorance which I generally take. There are usually choices to decline and/or delay any request until I want to pursue it.

I would like the situation to be a bit more sandboxy, especially once the capability to travel to your home world appears (inviting the different women on dates at your whim) but I can understand the difficulties on building all the environments, conversations, and whatnot.

The biggest thing I think is missing once that occurs, however, is the MC is completely unconcerned about contacting his family and friends, discovering news reports on the original incident, or even discovering his own current status! The MC literally fell off the face of the world for months by this point. Is he reported missing? Is he assumed dead? Does a copy of him still exist here and the MC is merely an echo? Is there a large crater where the energy research institute was? Are his friends and family OK or should he be mourning them?

 

[sillyrobot]

So yes, MC is going to get the girls anyway. If MC were fat, bald and ugly, he would get the girls anyway, including the succubus, since there is a succubus around and she emanates the aura, and he has not competitors. That's not an interesting premise, I'm afraid...

Well, the are lots of other games that way. *shrug* No game is enticing to everyone.

There's no indication one way or the other that the aura is powerful enough to overwhelm all preferences. I prefer to assume the MC is attractive enough in both physical looks and personality that the women are merely pushed towards their predispositions.

 

[Name356]

I tend to disagree. You can be a blowhard if you want, but the other option isn't a yes-man. I play the MC as generally calm and respectful of others' autonomy while insisting on my own. There are almost always choices to admit your ignorance which I generally take. There are usually choices to decline and/or delay any request until I want to pursue it.

I would like the situation to be a bit more sandboxy, especially once the capability to travel to your home world appears (inviting the different women on dates at your whim) but I can understand the difficulties on building all the environments, conversations, and whatnot.

The biggest thing I think is missing once that occurs, however, is the MC is completely unconcerned about contacting his family and friends, discovering news reports on the original incident, or even discovering his own current status! The MC literally fell off the face of the world for months by this point. Is he reported missing? Is he assumed dead? Does a copy of him still exist here and the MC is merely an echo? Is there a large crater where the energy research institute was? Are his friends and family OK or should he be mourning them?

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

 

[segaegae]

So... the point of Rae as a character is that, since she's a succubus, she would like everybody? If, instead of MC, she would be at the house with any other people in the earth, she would like him/she just the same because she's a succubus? And the same with the other girls, because there is a succubus around? I don't think that would be a good trait for any character, at all. In that case, it doesn´t matter the choices of MC or the kind of person he is, he will get all the girls eventually anyway...

About Rae being a warrior, she's the smallest person of the house. It´s just absurd, she doesn't have the physical strength. And yes, since she's an imaginary character, the dev can give her any trait he wants. She could fly and have lasers in the eyes, for example. But there are rules and conventions even with imaginary characters. A vampire sucks blood, sleeps during daylight and hates crucifixes. A werewolf transforms in full moon nights and becomes an irrational beast that could kill anybody. Other than that is corrupting the archetype of the character. That's why a lot of people hates "Twilight", for example. And a succubus uses her charm and sex appeal to get her way, no physical strength.

The dev wants to make her a 4.7 feet tall, 90 lbs. Bruce Lee? Well, he can, but it's absurd and it doesn't add to the character. She's even more interesting if she's weak, but she trust in her intelligence and appeal to succeed in all kinds of dangerous situations, as an infernal Mata Hari. If it's important for the plot that MC trains as a fighter (although, so far, it isn't), he could train at the house with the 6.5 feet tall 200 lbs. pirate butch, for example. It would make way more sense.

Rae was created as a magical being, and has been trained for thousands of years maybe, so I wouldn't be surprise that she is the best warrior in the house.

There are rules and conventions, but unfortunately people don't always agree on them, especially these imaginary characters could come from different tales of people in different places. For what I know, a succubus does use magic, right? So she could be wielding those weapons mostly by magic. She could be punching your face with magic.
And for what I know, in some rules a succubus is fundamentally evil, lying, cheating, charming peoples with magic, and feeding on people's life force. MC could be dead as soon as Rae found out he is not mage.

I agree Rae is over powered, almost all mighty. I personally think it is alright. But to each their own.

It is not important to train MC as a fighter. This training is just a not so vital event about Rae.

 

[Name356]

There's no indication one way or the other that the aura is powerful enough to overwhelm all preferences. I prefer to assume the MC is attractive enough in both physical looks and personality that the women are merely pushed towards their predispositions.

Well, we don't know. We don't even know if MC is handsome, intelligent, or has some abilities that could make him an attractive person for the opposite sex. He's just a blank canvas, as you say. I don't know, he could be an athlete and have an excellent physical condition. Could have a military background and to be brave and skillful. Could be a doctor or a scholar and be wise and cultured... Or any other thing you could imagine. He could be an adventurer and end up in the house in the rift because he was exploring an ancient tomb, Indiana Jones style, and suffer some kind of curse... But he's nothing. Probably just a boring and bored salaryman, since it seems the dev is Japanese.

 

[segaegae]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

Actually it is even worse. MC is important just because Rae says he is, and he lives on just because Rae likes it that way...
The whole thing is pretty crazy when you think about it. Except for Rae and maybe a bit Lyriel, NONE in the house has slightest idea about the what is going on, and everyone get their information (indirectly) from Rae.

 

[segaegae]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

The point of MC here is, dev tries to immerse you as MC, so dev doesn't want you to suddenly have some unknown friend for a long time. You may think that MC is thinking\dreaming\talking about his past life when you close the game.

 

[sillyrobot]

Well, we don't know. We don't even know if MC is handsome, intelligent, or has some abilities that could make him an attractive person for the opposite sex. He's just a blank canvas, as you say. I don't know, he could be an athlete and have an excellent physical condition. Could have a military background and to be brave and skillful. Could be a doctor or a scholar and be wise and cultured... Or any other thing you could imagine. He could be an adventurer and end up in the house in the rift because he was exploring an ancient tomb, Indiana Jones style, and suffer some kind of curse... But he's nothing. Probably just a boring and bored salaryman, since it seems the dev is Japanese.

He's not an athlete otherwise the physical training wouldn't have the quick impact it did. He's not decrepit or very out of shape though for the same reason and the fact he can learn basic fight moves easily.

He doesn't have a military or police background because he has very limited combat moves as demonstrated with everybody.

Her's basically a graduate from university that's been living on his own for a couple of years.

 

[sillyrobot]

Rae was created as a magical being, and has been trained for thousands of years maybe, so I wouldn't be surprise that she is the best warrior in the house.

There are rules and conventions, but unfortunately people don't always agree on them, especially these imaginary characters could come from different tales of people in different places. For what I know, a succubus does use magic, right? So she could be wielding those weapons mostly by magic. She could be punching your face with magic.
And for what I know, in some rules a succubus is fundamentally evil, lying, cheating, charming peoples with magic, and feeding on people's life force. MC could be dead as soon as Rae found out he is not mage.

I agree Rae is over powered, almost all mighty. I personally think it is alright. But to each their own.

It is not important to train MC as a fighter. This training is just a not so vital event about Rae.

Rae is probably not just a succubus. There's a comment from Naomi at one point that very heavily implies she's a half-breed. Her mentor chiding her about caring for others is another clue to the same conclusion.

Rae is probably over a century old though. She's been working in the field for over 40 years and she mentions mana-touched beings take a long time to learn things.

 

[Name356]

He's not an athlete otherwise the physical training wouldn't have the quick impact it did. He's not decrepit or very out of shape though for the same reason and the fact he can learn basic fight moves easily.

He doesn't have a military or police background because he has very limited combat moves as demonstrated with everybody.

Her's basically a graduate from university that's been living on his own for a couple of years.

Yes, what I say: a salaryman. The dev could create any kind of MC (athlete, military, scholar, adventurer... whatever), but he decided to make him as boring and bored as possible.

 

[sillyrobot]

What initiatives does MC consciously take? Except to peep at the shower and things like that, when girls allow him, I mean. How he makes the plot advance? He only says "yes" to initiatives that the girls propose. And he only gets laid because of the succubus "aura", apparently... Also, it seems that he doesn't know about half of the things that happens in the house around him with the girls. He's the MC but he's not even the most important person in the house. Rae is. He's important just because he, for some unknown reason, has a power that he even doesn't understand or knows where it comes from. The girls need him to be able to go out of the house. If not, he could stay in her room and die, and the girls would just continue their lives. That's not an attractive MC to play as.

And yes, MC has such an uninteresting life that he doesn't even care about what he left behind. His life isn't even interesting for him!

Well, he says yes to what the women propose at his whim. I didn't take Naomi to her ship for a couple of months, for example. It just didn't interest me.

There is a limit to player agency in interactive games. Players can only be proactive within the confines of the universe the devs can create. In Cybrpunk 2077, what proactive actions can the MC take other than buying stuff and attacking people on the street, for example? Everything else is "saying yes" to someone. A few of the areas where the MC is proactive is dealing with the group dynamic in general. Now those are forced to a specific outcome so the choices feel less valuable to the player. Personally, I would have preferred my MC to discover what happens to people who leave the house when I toss her out the front door after she locked Cait out without her clothes, but I have very little tolerance for Tsundere characters. Thankfully, the dev very quickly toned her behaviour down after that incident or I'd have been done with the game.

The MC is in effect on a journey from zero to hero. He's the "Chosen One" -- the one with a singular ability that forces him into a protagonist role because that ability is necessary for the task at hand. He starts as an "Everyman" and grows into the "Hero" role as he gains experience and training.

To compare to a modern work, Luke Skywalker was a zero and Obi Wan Kenobi could be viewed and a the primary character in Star Wars. After all, what did Luke manage to do, really? The MC is the Luke equivalent.

Rae fills the archetype of "Sage" or "Mentor". She the font of wisdom and knowledge the others can use. She can guide others but not complete the task at hand.

I don't want the next part to sound harsh. The MC's failure to explore the ramifications of his world and his place in it is a failure of the writing. Either the dev has a blind spot and literally hasn't considered how his choice to allow the MC to have a non-estranged family and normal life prior to the incident should lead to him attempting to discover what has happened over the last few months OR the dev is attempting to keep the events in the world unknown from the player to maintain suspense in a way that forces the MC to carry the idiot ball and simply never ask basic questions. Either way, I think it fails a basic sniff test.

 

[Name356]

Well, he says yes to what the women propose at his whim. I didn't take Naomi to her ship for a couple of months, for example. It just didn't interest me.

There is a limit to player agency in interactive games. Players can only be proactive within the confines of the universe the devs can create. In Cybrpunk 2077, what proactive actions can the MC take other than buying stuff and attacking people on the street, for example? Everything else is "saying yes" to someone. A few of the areas where the MC is proactive is dealing with the group dynamic in general. Now those are forced to a specific outcome so the choices feel less valuable to the player. Personally, I would have preferred my MC to discover what happens to people who leave the house when I toss her out the front door after she locked Cait out without her clothes, but I have very little tolerance for Tsundere characters. Thankfully, the dev very quickly toned her behaviour down after that incident or I'd have been done with the game.

The MC is in effect on a journey from zero to hero. He's the "Chosen One" -- the one with a singular ability that forces him into a protagonist role because that ability is necessary for the task at hand. He starts as an "Everyman" and grows into the "Hero" role as he gains experience and training.

To compare to a modern work, Luke Skywalker was a zero and Obi Wan Kenobi could be viewed and a the primary character in Star Wars. After all, what did Luke manage to do, really? The MC is the Luke equivalent.

Rae fills the archetype of "Sage" or "Mentor". She the font of wisdom and knowledge the others can use. She can guide others but not complete the task at hand.

I don't want the next part to sound harsh. The MC's failure to explore the ramifications of his world and his place in it is a failure of the writing. Either the dev has a blind spot and literally hasn't considered how his choice to allow the MC to have a non-estranged family and normal life prior to the incident should lead to him attempting to discover what has happened over the last few months OR the dev is attempting to keep the events in the world unknown from the player to maintain suspense in a way that forces the MC to carry the idiot ball and simply never ask basic questions. Either way, I think it fails a basic sniff test.

Well, let's talk about a better (IMO) game than Cyberpunk from the same company: The Witcher III. Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo, but can take initiatives and at the end, people lives or dies because of him (even if he doesn't kill them) and even the future of a kingdom depends of his acts.

Luke Skywalker is a nobody at first when Obi Wan Kenobi finds him because he's a just a teenager and he spends a lot of time training with him and Yoda before doing something. But then he becomes in someone and does things. Saving Leia at the beginning of the third movie, for example, fighting Darth Vader, gaining the friendship and respect of Han Solo and other characters... And even when he's just a trainee, he has a background. He's a good pilot. He knows about robots and how to repair them. He has hopes and dreams... What do we know about MC hopes and dreams, abilities, past...? Nothing. How MC changes during his journey so far? Well, he learns some magic abilities for the benefit of the plot, but he doesn't seem to be wiser, kinder or more charming than at the beginning of the game, or change his personality. He's doesn't evolve, is the same blank canvas. For example, he can be a nice guy or an asshole that gives rude answers and pervs the girls the day 1 and the day 365. How could someone empathize as a player with a character like this one?

I suspect that most of the people just forget about MC when playing, and look at the girls.

 

[segaegae]

Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo

Lol.

 

[segaegae]

Rae is probably not just a succubus. There's a comment from Naomi at one point that very heavily implies she's a half-breed. Her mentor chiding her about caring for others is another clue to the same conclusion.

Rae is probably over a century old though. She's been working in the field for over 40 years and she mentions mana-touched beings take a long time to learn things.

I don't recall Naomi commented anything like that. Naomi could probably not tell anyway. The only thing I could remember about this is imp, used first by lyriel.
Also rae should be much older than a century. That 40 years was just a few assignment. Although there is no direct reference(?) I believe Rae has witnessed and maybe also fought in the slaughter against demons three centuries ago. So I would say her age would be at least four centuries or so.

 

[sillyrobot]

Well, let's talk about a better (IMO) game than Cyberpunk from the same company: The Witcher III. Geralt of Rivia is a nobody doo, but can take initiatives and at the end, people lives or dies because of him (even if he doesn't kill them) and even the future of a kingdom depends of his acts.

Luke Skywalker is a nobody at first when Obi Wan Kenobi finds him because he's a just a teenager and he spends a lot of time training with him and Yoda before doing something. But then he becomes in someone and does things. Saving Leia at the beginning of the third movie, for example, fighting Darth Vader, gaining the friendship and respect of Han Solo and other characters... And even when he's just a trainee, he has a background. He's a good pilot. He knows about robots and how to repair them. He has hopes and dreams... What do we know about MC hopes and dreams, abilities, past...? Nothing. How MC changes during his journey so far? Well, he learns some magic abilities for the benefit of the plot, but he doesn't seem to be wiser, kinder or more charming than at the beginning of the game, or change his personality. He's doesn't evolve, is the same blank canvas. For example, he can be a nice guy or an asshole that gives rude answers and pervs the girls the day 1 and the day 365. How could someone empathize as a player with a character like this one?

I suspect that most of the people just forget about MC when playing, and look at the girls.

As for Geralt, at no point is he a zero (by the game start anyway. He's more of a zero a century or so earlier). But the narrative arc for Geralt is more "recovery of power".

That game is a bit more of a sandbox, it is true. Cyberpunk is less a sandbox and more an action-led tactical game. This game is less sandbox and more visual novel with some player controlled situations.

Luke is a zero that grows into a hero. A moisture farmer? How boring! Why didn't the writer make him something more interesting like a stormtrooper!
The MC is a zero that is growing into a hero. A salaryman? How boring! Why didn't the writer make him something nore interesting!

The reason is the same. The growth is the narrative.

As for the fact the player is provided dialogue options, the game assumes some desire for interactivity. The options I choose will be different from the options you choose. The growth of the personality, if any, will vary based upon player choice. How I decide the MC grows can be different from how any other players chooses to evolve the character. For that you need a continuum of choice so a player who wants to start polite but descend into assholery has as much choice as someone who wants the reverse.

I'd prefer if the MC's tone and choices had an effect on the other character's interactions with the MC, but I suspect we're at the limit of what the dev wants/can handle with respect to such alternatives.