VN Ren'Py A Perfect Marriage [v0.7.3b] [Mr Palmer]

[jamdan]

We've seen this pattern happen over many years for all the higher end devs. They start out strong with regular updates every 2-3 months or so. Long play time, quality writing. After they have built up a bigger following and patreon payments, they get lazy and realize they don't need to work as hard. Updates take longer, game play time is shorter and writing gets cliched. I can understand extra time needed for branching storylines but most devs have fake choices which might lead to maybe one extra scene or a few lines of different dialogue per update. Its sad that devs aren't held accountable to do their work or finish on time. Also sad that many followers will still pay blindly and believe all the lies that devs put out.

Not saying this doesn't happen. But most of the time things slow down not because the devs get "lazy". But because the game complexity grows the longer it goes on for. And more complexity = harder to make = slower updates.

This is only compounded by the fact that the majority (if not almost all) of devs make up their stories as they go. Especially if those stories are meant to be serious and not just porn. The amount of work/time needed to write something that makes sense, let alone render, can get out of hand pretty fast.

 

[Sadowdark]

Not saying this doesn't happen. But most of the time things slow down not because the devs get "lazy". But because the game complexity grows the longer it goes on for. And more complexity = harder to make = slower updates.

This is only compounded by the fact that the majority (if not almost all) of devs make up their stories as they go. Especially if those stories are meant to be serious and not just porn. The amount of work/time needed to write something that makes sense, let alone render, can get out of hand pretty fast.

But complexity in games is cool and interesting and doesn't get boring as much as kinetic games. But it also has its drawbacks because the more choices the longer you wait for an update.

 

[jamdan]

But complexity in games is cool and interesting and doesn't get boring as much as kinetic games. But it also has its drawbacks because the more choices the longer you wait for an update.

Even kinetic games can be complex and interesting. You may not have branching choices, but you do have context of what happened previously that informs what will happen in the present. This is basically how books are made. Totally kinetic, but also complex and interesting stories.

A famous bit of writing advice (from, if I recall, Pixar writers) is the difference between "and then" and "therefore".

This basically boils down to linking the past context/scenes and current context/scenes together. "And then" events may not have anything to do with each other. But "therefore" events have to, because they directly interact with each other. Basically, cause and effect.

Now try to apply that same cause and effect to branching AVN's, and it's compounded in difficulty. I think it's particularly difficult in corruption/slow burn games. Because you more or less have to advance things at a similar pace, or else you'll end up having the MC at various stages with various different characters which may break the games logic. This is basically what ended up derailing AWAM.

 

[Sadowdark]

Even kinetic games can be complex and interesting. You may not have branching choices, but you do have context of what happened previously that informs what will happen in the present. This is basically how books are made. Totally kinetic, but also complex and interesting stories.

A famous bit of writing advice (from, if I recall, Pixar writers) is the difference between "and then" and "therefore".

This basically boils down to linking the past context/scenes and current context/scenes together. "And then" events may not have anything to do with each other. But "therefore" events have to, because they directly interact with each other. Basically, cause and effect.

Now try to apply that same cause and effect to branching AVN's, and it's compounded in difficulty. I think it's particularly difficult in corruption/slow burn games. Because you more or less have to advance things at a similar pace, or else you'll end up having the MC at various stages with various different characters which may break the games logic. This is basically what ended up derailing AWAM.

But the problem with AWAM is there are too many random characters and the main characters have to wait years to get something. .

 

[sslovoe]

This is why Patreon sucks and should be replaced by Steam. Steam is for us “the players”not the devs. We only make a one time payment to the game on Steam and then we get every update and it doesn’t matter how long the wait is, when it gets dropped you get it on day 1, no more stupid tiers having to wait weeks or more for yours.

this method will stop developer make exxcuse and tell story about life
and focus to his game and get what deserve when hard work get not think how milk game by issue delay excuse even if he ready to release he wait more week for new month pay

 

[Eve de Rothchild]

This is why Patreon sucks and should be replaced by Steam. Steam is for us “the players”not the devs. We only make a one time payment to the game on Steam and then we get every update and it doesn’t matter how long the wait is, when it gets dropped you get it on day 1, no more stupid tiers having to wait weeks or more for yours.

yes patreon sucks, but steam follow the same rules, and also you don't own the digital copy of the games anymore like before 2017 where you would be able to play the games offiline and whitout ever opening steam.

Btw, its like you don't know paradox and warhammr studios or recent AAA games, almost all these games come out unfinished and the devs launched DLC with features that should be in the base game, just to name a few games like CK3(crusader kings 3), Stellaris, must Ubisoft games etc.

Gog is better now in these terms, also puting every game in one plataform is a bad idea.

 

[Eve de Rothchild]

not all married women is kurdashian life
you want model and you look to anna developer not make chang from original model he take as its
but other one make chang skin wide face lips chang eyes
if you see original model its young also
see this i use his model she young women you see how he make different

i take 10 min to recreate anna character
but this artist i cant figure out what chang muscle mode he chang to get this one
View attachment 4606467 View attachment 4606476

ap he take model without Chang so not take time to chose skin or age character
this what make other artist different
am talk about reality
you live in tv show you want wife body 18 y old
and not talk me like its personally about me i can talk back to you same but its child talk grow up

And this game is about a fictional novel and not the real world you live in, i could waste my time searching for allot of milfs who still beautiful to prove my point to a person who want "reality" in fictional games and when something is you way and people say its bad, i guess you would call then "bigots" or say that "character doenst exist, why botter?"

Anyway, why don't you create you own game then?

No one issaying you can't make you oww game withthe models and preferences XD

 

[sslovoe]

And this game is about a fictional novel and not the real world you live in, i could waste my time searching for allot of milfs who still beautiful to prove my point to a person who want "reality" in fictional games and when something is you way and people say its bad, i guess you would call then "bigots" or say that "character doenst exist, why botter?"

Anyway, why don't you create you own game then?

No one issaying you can't make you oww game withthe models and preferences XD

you not get the point
even its fiction story
but the developer not make random wife like other game show you young wife but not give you any sign of age many year marrige or kid
here he make history of wife many year and have child and brestfeed she worker women graduate collage law so he have to give fan something believable for her look
anna here is young wife you cant give her age more than 20

 

[Kaitol]

This is why Patreon sucks and should be replaced by Steam. Steam is for us “the players”not the devs. We only make a one time payment to the game on Steam and then we get every update and it doesn’t matter how long the wait is, when it gets dropped you get it on day 1, no more stupid tiers having to wait weeks or more for yours.

The entire point of Patreon is letting artists create the work they want without being constrained by needing to force releases out to pay bills and work a 9-5. It's not for buying products it's for supporting creatives you like. If you want to know what would happen if everyone abandoned Patreon for Steam, well, just look at all the cheap cashgrab slop on Steam. Almost all the halfway decent western porn games on steam started as Patreon games.

You can also see this by looking at DLsite or similar places. Tons of unfinished slop or halfway promising games forced out because the devs need the money to live and then immediately abandoned for the next project because people need the cash now, not in several more years when the game is actually finished. Most landlords won't wait several years for you to make a porn game to maybe be able to pay them rent. People aren't going to work themselves to the bone to make porn games for you for a single payment of like $5-12 when a significant portion of the already very small playerbase will just pirate it.

 

[metagrossrj]

View attachment 4597243
View attachment 4597242

Spring break time, after Christmas time and New Years time.
Life is hectic. Next month, he will need to take some time off to celebrate Easter.

 

[gotohome]

The entire point of Patreon is letting artists create the work they want without being constrained by needing to force releases out to pay bills and work a 9-5. It's not for buying products it's for supporting creatives you like. If you want to know what would happen if everyone abandoned Patreon for Steam, well, just look at all the cheap cashgrab slop on Steam. Almost all the halfway decent western porn games on steam started as Patreon games.

You can also see this by looking at DLsite or similar places. Tons of unfinished slop or halfway promising games forced out because the devs need the money to live and then immediately abandoned for the next project because people need the cash now, not in several more years when the game is actually finished. Most landlords won't wait several years for you to make a porn game to maybe be able to pay them rent. People aren't going to work themselves to the bone to make porn games for you for a single payment of like $5-12 when a significant portion of the already very small playerbase will just pirate it.

Steam is better because it treats the various buyers with respect, if the product works well, otherwise, it refunds, Patreon only does its financial interests, even the fact of having to match for each DEv, is truly shameful.

 

[TonyMurray]

Steam is better because it treats the various buyers with respect, if the product works well, otherwise, it refunds, Patreon only does its financial interests, even the fact of having to match for each DEv, is truly shameful.

It's a bit disingenuous to say one is better than the other, with that sort of argument, because Steam and Patreon are two completely different things - they are not performing the same function. It's a really good example of the usual saying: it's like comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruits, they're both round, but they're otherwise completely different.

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

It's a bit disingenuous to say one is better than the other, with that sort of argument, because Steam and Patreon are two completely different things - they are not performing the same function. It's a really good example of the usual saying: it's like comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruits, they're both round, but they're otherwise completely different.

Well atleast you can’t get milked on Steam, and the biggest scam going (not talking about this dev) but there are other games with no updates in over a year but cause they put out a render of the month on Patreon, thinks the game is being developed

 

[Couto25]

The entire point of Patreon is letting artists create the work they want without being constrained by needing to force releases out to pay bills and work a 9-5. It's not for buying products it's for supporting creatives you like. If you want to know what would happen if everyone abandoned Patreon for Steam, well, just look at all the cheap cashgrab slop on Steam. Almost all the halfway decent western porn games on steam started as Patreon games.

You can also see this by looking at DLsite or similar places. Tons of unfinished slop or halfway promising games forced out because the devs need the money to live and then immediately abandoned for the next project because people need the cash now, not in several more years when the game is actually finished. Most landlords won't wait several years for you to make a porn game to maybe be able to pay them rent. People aren't going to work themselves to the bone to make porn games for you for a single payment of like $5-12 when a significant portion of the already very small playerbase will just pirate it.

I respectfully disagree to all your points that you have mentioned from the moment you started your sentence. I don't mind this particular delay

1. You said give artist freedom so that he won't stick to 9-5 working on it...Fine...why people wants support from patreon then if they have full time job and they're not dedicated to their own art whenever they get free time??? By your sentence , It means patreon is a platform for freebies who has talent definitely n can work whenever they want right...it gives artists freedom to take money n work whenever they like to...and you call all supporters who like their job cheap. That's a disrespectful for supporters who like their art too.

I will give you an example suppose I like Jurassic park movie..now suppose artist wants to show more creation but is running short on money...we have them support n expect timeline whatever artists are comfortable with right? We don't forced them in anyways..but by the time he ran out of that timeline and couldn't create it...it means lets accept the reality all supporters are fools if the artist kept saying I can't work for 2+ more years dedicatedly on his art. I get this argument on many threads that poor artists..stop blaming him n all.....it happens.

The deal is mostly based on trust basis...supporters doesn't force any artists to define timeline to release the project.... it's the artist who assure supporters that he will finish it and he will provide update on whatever timeline he is comfortable with. Then if supporters agree like in case of APM even after delays, MP says like he will be able to provide update after let's say 4.5 months..then it's on supporters whoever is fine with that timeline support him, whoever doesn't, don't support him. It's nowhere means that supporters don't like art or story or whatever. And they are cheap. It just means that the artist can't give time or might have other reasons to neglect this project as a hobby. Always remember supporters doesn't start complaining in his first excuse....like when LP of AWAM or in this case MP would have said some reason to delay, supporters would be fine with it. But when it starts happening like a series of habit in consecutive updates let's say after 4/5 updates LP or MP keep giving some reasons to delay ...then it's on supporters to choose cheaper option or unsubscribe as they're not getting for whatever deal has been made or the commitment has been made by the developer.

Here exclusively MP said 2 months, then 3 months then 4.5 months and then now it's keep going on...people understood storm, or renders might have increased, or holidays, family weekend we do understand but show us commitment to finish the project whenever he gets time right? ...now MP said everything like he got busy with Job because of trump then family and then Xmas holidays and everything for this update...and it's not the first time it is happening and if supporters wants to go for cheaper option like steam then it's on them . Why to criticize them? Why holding them to be responsible for the failure of projects/abandoned projects ? Those project got abandoned because it's artists fault not supporters. Artist was never forced...he just couldn't stick to his own commitment whatever he said because life happened on his side. Or they might have lost VN development as their hobby or kept it as secondary hobby just in case if they need some extra...then only they'll work on it. It doesn't mean if his price is cheap and because we like the update so far we kept giving him 5-10$ for life even if he's not committed to the project because whatever he made was brilliant. Well few can do it but I guess no one will keep giving $5 for lifetime....Best example of this is JOHN game...I do like the story, I am not blaming the artist because he doesn't get time...but I am not gonna support him to indefinite period when I don't even know when the next update will launch and artist can't commit too...Stopper just said like whenever he gets time he will work on it, but date of release he couldn't tell...so it's not supporters fault in case if the project gets abandoned. Patreon is platform where artist should show some commitment and do reply to questions..and stay committed to supporters every month..but it never happened. And if people unsubscribe, it's not supporters fault, it's artists.

 

[Menace o Santana]

This is why Patreon sucks and should be replaced by Steam. Steam is for us “the players”not the devs. We only make a one time payment to the game on Steam and then we get every update and it doesn’t matter how long the wait is, when it gets dropped you get it on day 1, no more stupid tiers having to wait weeks or more for yours.

I believe Patreon sucks but not b/c of the month or annual payment. I mean some dev it is there full time job but other have side jobs and their income will not be enough to develop the game in the great way it supposed to be, it is even more complicated when dev have other mouths to feed. The problem is after 2-3 years the dev v'been spoiled too much and then start feelin' lazy. I'm not sayin' it is the case for Mr Palmer but some dev even invent situation to have more time of slackin'. Like takin' the confrontation of Ukrainia vs russia as an excuse, i'll avoid mentionnin' this dev name,those who know you know.

 

[catgameryt011]

all arguing over something superficial
Bring out a new chapter, and my life will be yours Jess2001

 

[gotohome]

It's a bit disingenuous to say one is better than the other, with that sort of argument, because Steam and Patreon are two completely different things - they are not performing the same function. It's a really good example of the usual saying: it's like comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruits, they're both round, but they're otherwise completely different.

you're wrong, on steam you buy a finished product, you pay for it, and you return it if it's not good, on patreon you pay the creator to make you the game, monthly, with no guarantees on anything, if it will be good, if the game will be finished, you'll never know how long it will take, yes they are different, but in a way that is too scary, in fact, there wouldn't even be a comparison, you're talking about a mountain (STEAM) versus a hill (PATREON)

 

[TonyMurray]

you're wrong, on steam you buy a finished product, you pay for it, and you return it if it's not good, on patreon you pay the creator to make you the game, monthly, with no guarantees on anything, if it will be good, if the game will be finished, you'll never know how long it will take, yes they are different, but in a way that is too scary, in fact, there wouldn't even be a comparison, you're talking about a mountain (STEAM) versus a hill (PATREON)

You've just made the exact point I'm talking about. There's no comparing them because they are not the same. Well done, you.

(P.S. You've also just made the common misconception that on Patreon you're paying the creator to make you the game. This shows that you do not understand what Patreon is and how it works.)

 

[Couto25]

I believe Patreon sucks but not b/c of the month or annual payment. I mean some dev it is there full time job but other have side jobs and their income will not be enough to develop the game in the great way it supposed to be, it is even more complicated when dev have other mouths to feed. The problem is after 2-3 years the dev v'been spoiled too much and then start feelin' lazy. I'm not sayin' it is the case for Mr Palmer but some dev even invent situation to have more time of slackin'. Like takin' the confrontation of Ukrainia vs russia as an excuse, i'll avoid mentionnin' this dev name,those who know you know.

The best thing is what he said for this delay lol...He said he has job, family thing n couldn't complete it...I mean that's what we already know when he said he took this project as a side job. It maybe because trump arrived then he has to do his main job seriously lol.
When he says 4.5 months, we already assume that he has time for project beside his job n family to provide updates after 4.5 months. Unless events like holidays or hurricane. Now if this will be the reason for delay then I don't know how much normal update will take.. probably 6 months.