I'm not really interested in the Harry only perspective. Feels too much like skipping all the worthwhile content. I get why some would like it, but I want to see what's going on.
- Thread starter HangoverCat
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- Oct 17, 2019
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nah this game is way better from writting in characters we just need the aya edition that is 5 dollarsHopefully the same person who leaked this update will bless us with the new update of NTR'd by Clumsiness
- Oct 17, 2019
- 1,974
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https://f95zone.to/threads/real-gigachad-a-promise-best-left-unkept-aya-edition-v0-1-0.180998/
I posted a request thread so maybe that helps GET YOUR VANILLA BROSS in here we need the update
I posted a request thread so maybe that helps GET YOUR VANILLA BROSS in here we need the update
Am I the only one who frigging hate the good endings art? I know people voted for faster updates with slightly less quality but I assumed they would just pick the worst artist of the bunch that were already working on APBLU. Laura's mom has grey nipples and pussy and close shots of Harry are soooo bad. It looks like someone normal (not an artist) drew his face. I'm not even going to mention how bad the scenario his.
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Man I really wanted a route where laura's mom gets banged
Guess playing harem games ruined my damn mind
Guess playing harem games ruined my damn mind
- Jul 20, 2018
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I mean, he doesn't become a douche like Luca. He just becomes good at sex, for one thing, and also willing to accept Laura's awakened nymphomania.
It's really the ONLY way in which the two of them could get back together after that month. Laura simply wouldn't be able to be satisfied by what they had before even if Luca was magically vanished from their lives. If Harry doesn't become capable of handling and enjoying a mega-slut for a wife, then he's shit out of luck with Laura, because that's what she is. What the VN is saying, especially if you go through all the routes and find out about some of Laura's issues since childhood, is that Laura was a repressed nympho from the get-go. Luca didn't turn her into one, he just made it impossible for her to ignore that side of herself.
That said...
While I definitely see this as the only way in which things could be properly resolved between them, aka Harry accepting and dealing with Laura as a complete slut...
The fact is that it's extremely poorly presented, the art is quite honestly the worst in all the routes, except that one CG with Laura as a bride with rotors attached underneath her wedding dress.
At the end of the day, HC might have been pressured into writing that, but he absolutely did NOT want to write it. NTR isn't supposed to have a good ending at the end of the day... not unless it's stopped before the NTR happens or not unless there are more extenuating circumstances.
With the characters as they are, this is pretty much the best that can be achieved without completely breaking the characters... though even then, it's pretty clear that HC believes that Harry wouldn't ever be able to get over his own issues enough to accept a completely slutty Laura, and it shows in his writing.
The endings where Harry does NOT accept a slutty Laura and refuses to even believe that such a thing could be real are, after all, significantly better written and illustrated.
while I do believe any devs should not be forced to change their game in anyway ( not sure if HC felt forced at anytime but I don't think they are the kind of devs who would bend easily), I don't think theres a rule for NTR games to or not to have a good ending. You can have your opinion that all NTR games should not need a good ending, but please dont make it sound like theres a common agreement on that.
There were already ntr games with good endings before F95zone was created. Some games even make it feel like a "true" ending which is only available after u go through all the "bad" endings and unlock more options. Different players and devs are looking for different things in their games and NTR is such a broad genre. There are absolutely good ntr games which do not and should not have good endings, but setting up boundaries on games just because it falls on certain genre or fetish is such a terrible idea.
That being said, I for this game, I don't feel the need for a good ending from what I have experienced in the game. I have not played the good ending yet (not planning to until I unlock all the scenes) but I think I'm okay with it as long as the plot make sense.
I've only done 1 playthrough (from Harry's perspective) for now and I got to see Sandra get fucked by MC. I got ending #7 (I think) : "Too good ending".
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- Jul 20, 2018
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Right, I suppose I worded that poorly.
I don't mean to say that it's impossible to have good endings in NTR games. That's obviously been done and will continue to be done. However, there is one crucial element here to consider as well. On the route that the those good endings happen on... the story is no longer a NTR story.
Now. Maybe I'm still too old school and think of NTR, or rather, specifically netorare, as old school netorare rather than how the more recent generations define the fetish... But netorare is not just a single scene or a single instance of cheating and/or rape. No. Netorare is a process that starts in whatever way gets a significant other to be sexually abused by someone outside of their established relationship, whatever that is... and ends when this significant other completely, finally and absolutely betrays the person they're in a relationship with for the sake of sex and lust, and never go back to them no matter what that other person does.
Netorare is final and brutal, the defeat of love in the face of lust and all that. It's supposed to be like a tragedy where there's nothing good about it... and it's why it's so controversial to begin with, because let's face it, no one wants to imagine that anyone could become so addicted to sex that they'd choose sex over a sane relationship.
The thing is, if you have a good ending. Or even the possibility of a good ending, that happens after the conversion process has gone on deep enough... then it kind of breaks the whole thing. A lot of NTR games have their good ending routes basically completely side-step the fucking, or stopping it before it can get too far, before the girl falls in too deep to come back. So on and so forth.
Having it the way APBLU does tends to kind of break things in ways that aren't good, because it creates the impression that there isn't that point of no return where things are inevitably broken, if only Harry gets his head out of his ass. This makes the good ending kind of unsatisfying for everyone.
For a TRUE good ending for this story, the branching for it should have happened way, WAY earlier so it doesn't feel so bad... However, that would have been enormous work, a whole route of its own worth, kind of like what's happening with Aya right now.
Could just implement a short off-ramp ending like Turning the Page did. Doesn't waste time writing a thematically different story and lets people know everything was avoidable.
If people want good endings in NTR work, I want NTR endings in harem works but it doesn’t go both ways funny enough
I don't know how old you mean when you say old school ntr, but from "Isaku" by elf in 1995, to the famous "True Blue" by LiLim Darkness in 2002, a lot of ntr games have both good and bad ends. In some good ends the girls might still have sex with others but whether they "fall" completely or not depends on the players.
You absolutely can prefer extremely dark endings. But "the story is no longer a NTR story", "Netorare is final and brutal, the defeat of love in the face of lust and all that" I just can't agree with those. I don't think theres a definition that netorare story must be dark until the very end. Unless you can find evidence, definitions by japanese etc, this is just your opinion, but you make it sound like its a fact. Your definition of "NTR story" is extremely restrictive and limiting and is not good for any kinds of creative development.
You can say its hard to write good endings for a NTR story but in the end sex is far from the most important thing of most peoples lives and good writers should be able to write good or bittersweet endings if they want/have planned to.
Imagine someone tells you Shakespeare is wrong and Hamlet isnt a tragedy because Hamlet's ending isnt dark enough. Hamlet should not be able to kill Claudius, he should have failed and this just ruined the whole story, its not a tragedy anymore.
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- Jul 20, 2018
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You're reaching so far with some of what you said in there that we might be able to build space elevators if we could turn that reach into cables...
Ok. So. Lemme break things down a bit. Starting from the end, because that's the stupidest comparison I've ever seen and you should be ashamed for ever making it.
First of all, you can't compare a static play with a VN or game with multiple endings. It's absurd. A static play is just a single story with a single outcome. No matter how many times you watch Hamlet, it's not going to change. A VN and games with multiple endings are different. They don't tell a singular story specifically. They essentially tell multiple stories. Even if most of the road is the same, at some point, it diverges into multiple paths, and the destination you end up with is completely different.
As such, I can and will say that good endings in NTR games... are NOT NTR. That does not mean that the entire VN or game is not a NTR VN/game anymore, just that the specific story with the specific ending is not NTR anymore.
Now, why do I say that? Because there is one single, literal fact about netorare. That's the fact that it literally translates into "to be taken away". This means that there's one absolute of netorare, and that 'someone' is taken away. Additionally, that 'someone' also belongs to the person that they're being taken away from to some degree or another. Now, I don't know about you, but I can't consider someone 'taken away'... if you get them back. Case in point, in the good ending, Harry gets Laura back and Luca fucks off into the sunset. Would a relationship change because of all that happened? Yes. Can they still get their happy ending? Absolutely yes given how young they are. The whole story to the good ending may have been traumatic for Laura and Harry, but it's at the end of the day a hill they climb over and which they overcome.
It's not netorare, because Laura gets back with Harry. It's just a rape story. If the good ending was the ONLY ending of the VN, then I wouldn't tag it as NTR, because it's really, really not. As far as I know, games that didn't have that absolute ending as part of at least one storyline didn't get tagged as NTR until relatively recently... I'm not sure if they DO get tagged on dlsite without the specific detail that there's at least one ending where someone gets taken away for good.
Now, I will give you this. While the literal translation means 'to be taken away'... how people perceive what that means will vary. For some, just having someone looking at their girl means that she's been taken away to some degree or another... but I strongly disagree with it. Much like how I disagree that netorare can exist without a true, solid relationship between the initial couple... because without that, there is no claim. I'm sorry, just because someone else asks out the girl before the cuck does, doesn't mean the cuck was NTRed, it just means that the cuck was a moron. The girl was free to enter whatever relationship she wanted at that point, even if she had feelings for the cuck or not.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaall that said...
I will have to concede that netorare is a... very subjective fetish. In the sense that, aside from the literal meaning of the word, how that meaning is perceived can vary a lot from person to person. It's why netorare has become so diluted presently. Because NTR haters will tag just about every little bit of cheating and/or unwilling rape as NTR... to the point where the word loses all meaning.
The literal translation of netorare is something along the lines of "to be stolen." The genre of NTR comprises of a story arc that is expected to end with the girl falling. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that a story that focuses on the NTR narrative is expected to end in that way.
That is the base of the game. The required story. Now, that doesn't mean they can't add other routes that are about positive resolutions, virgin runs, revenge routes, or bittersweet endings, but those are extra things on top of your base narrative.
Complaining about "no good endings" in hard NTR stories where NTR is the main theme and is unavoidable is analogous to someone complaining that there is no male dom ending in a game devoted to some hardcore femdom overlord shit throughout the whole story.
No one is saying NTR can't have positive endings. but shitting on an NTR story primarily because it doesn't have positive endings or the MC suddenly turning shit around is some entitled behavior. Not saying you are acting that way, but it's something of a trend in NTR game threads lately.
And here is the thing. Not every dev or writer wants to bother with good endings if it's not something they are interested in. And who knows about the real numbers, but it's a safe bet to say the majority of NTR fans who are playing hardcore NTR games don't really care about good endings either. They might check it out if it exists, but don't lose anything if it doesn't.
There was a time when I felt like Harem games that focus so much on the safe space narrative could have been improved by not being so anal about possibly offending some people who self insert extremely hard (MC such good guy, girls all fall for him, no other males, if there are males, they emphasize that he is non-sexual, if he is sexual, the girl he likes will be intentionally ugly and not a LI, no mentioning prior experience in anyway or showing girls having their own lives, etc etc).
But I try to be consistent in my positions and have come to realize that the safe space harem is the genre for many (possibly the majority?) of the harem fans, similar to how the cliche NTR story is the genre for the majority of fans.
Finding a specific variation that strays from the most popular style is obviously gonna be harder because there is a smaller market for it, but that's on you to find such things and not the job of other people to produce or support works that suit your taste. Let people enjoy their Fast and Furious 27 if they'd like.
Btw, all the "you" in this post was more or less the generic "you." I'm not sure what your position is, reading a few posts, it doesn't seem extreme or anything like that.