VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.211] [Lust & Passion]

[Lust&Passion]

Every time I read one of L&P's updates, and he talks about the number of Renders and CS he's creating, One thought that comes to my mind is Quality vs Quantity? Does he believe these actually go hand and hand? Because it seems to me that he believes in order to achieve Quality you need Quantity.

That quality goes hand in hand with quantity is what you say. For me quality is the fastidious work on every single render including everything from the lighting over scene subtleties to the smallest pose and expression detail. The quantity is just a byproduct which emerges by the amount of renders I need to tell a scene!

Well, L&P says that this update is around 1300 renders, and we know that with this game each line of dialogue usually has a render because for each line a dialogue a facial expression might change, or the camera angle might change to focus on another character, or the character might shift the position of their body, arm, head, etc.

If L&P were to write just 800 lines of dialogue, then it would only require around 800 renders, so there's the reduction right there.

However, the main issue is how does L&P take a full day like Day 11 which, when combined with the 1st half will be around 1800 renders (the first half of Day 11 is just 515 renders), and make the next full days less than that in order to produce full day updates instead of half-days? This is what L&P needs to solve and they conceivably could do this when you consider that the first part of this day was around half the number of renders of the 2nd part, so it's entirely possible that L&P could do a full day in around 1000 renders.

In order to do this, of course, they need to not go overboard with the writing, because if they can produce 1300 renders for a half-day update in 5 months, then they can presumably produce 1000 renders for a full day update in 4 months. This would quite literally cut development time in half because 19 full day updates every 4 months would take around 6 years, as opposed to the half-day updates every 4-5 months which would take 12-15 years.

First of all I needed 4 month for 1300 renders because 1 month is for programming, translation and render editing! During this time I also keep on writing on the story and the dialogues of the scenes!

After the next update you can tell me which renders were redundant and I will either tell you you're right or explain you why not.

Btw, not every game day is similar huge! For example the upcoming in-game Sunday is one large event which spreads over the morning until the evening!

And I also didn't introduce any new characters like many like to criticize. I'm already done with it for a while. If some new characters appear then they won't play a big role and just are a story staffage! All characters of the next update except Don Morello are in the game since the demo!

 

[Old Dog]

i used to be a patron and L&P gives a ..... about what the patrons say or suggest, except a few things he would do anyway. If you ask him a serious question he doesn’t like, he will just not answer or give you an answer like „I will talk about it later“ or „ i can’t answer i have to work“.... His biggest problem is that he is extremely narcissistic about himself and his work and produces the game almost by himself. When you ask him why he doesn't want to hire someone to help him, he just means that he can't find anyone who is as good as he is or can‘t reach his quality.

I am a Patron and L&P has answered my questions,be it cryptic or a wait and see answer.
A serious question that I did ask him, and this went on for a couple of e-mails, was violence in the game.
He told me that there are no sexual violence/rape scenes in the game so I can't agree with your first point.
As for asking what the Patrons think,polls,I agree with you that he has changed the poll result and gone with his own choice,Sophia's dress on Aidens 2nd task for example because he thought it would be more suited.

 

[Bahraini]

Hi guys, I found out this game will be finished in more than 12 years.

Since we are in day 11 and the developer already planned 30 days = 30-11= 19 days left.

Every playable day has 2 updates = 19 days x 2 updates = 38 updates left

Every update takes on Average 4 months = 38 updates x 4 months = 152 months = 12 years and 6 months to finish the game.

I hope you are still alive by then.

 

[john_jones21]

That quality goes hand in hand with quantity is what you say. For me quality is the fastidious work on every single render including everything from the lighting over scene subtleties to the smallest pose and expression detail. The quantity is just a byproduct which emerges by the amount of renders I need to tell a scene!

You've been working on this for three years, surely you feel some desire to change what you're doing? You've shown you can do huge amounts of detail and I think it's fair to say almost everyone appreciates the quality of your renders (though I suspect a lot gets missed by the nature of people moving through it all quickly) so is it not time to show that you can setup a particular scene and then tell the story efficiently?

Is it not worth trying even for one update? Run a poll if you like - if you produce something and everyone hates it go back and do it the old way.

In any profession growth involves trying new things and setting goals for improvement. There are some very high profile burnouts in this industry so I'm not suggesting you double down and work harder, just to mix up your approach a little and see what works for you.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

That quality goes hand in hand with quantity is what you say. For me quality is the fastidious work on every single render including everything from the lighting over scene subtleties to the smallest pose and expression detail. The quantity is just a byproduct which emerges by the amount of renders I need to tell a scene!

But do you need so many renders? I don't say these things to be a harsh criticism and I really don't want you to take it that way, but to quote Mark Twain; "Don't use a five-dollar word when a fifty-cent word will do." In other words, brevity; saying a lot while saying very little. Shakespeare also said that, "Brevity is the soul of wit", meaning that the essence of a good statement is that it is concise.

This, I feel, applies to the renders of this game which seem so very often to be tied to the lines of dialogue and therefore a more concise script would result in fewer renders. Such a thing would not, in my view, diminish your work in the slightest but may in fact enhance it and I would, as both a patron and a very devoted fan of this game, implore you to consider this, if not for us but for yourself as lessening your workload could be very good for easing the stress that you mentioned in your recent Patreon post.

First of all I needed 4 month for 1300 renders because 1 month is for programming, translation and render editing! During this time I also keep on writing on the story and the dialogues of the scenes!

After the next update you can tell me which renders were redundant and I will either tell you you're right or explain you why not.

Btw, not every game day is similar huge! For example the upcoming in-game Sunday is one large event which spreads over the morning until the evening!

And I also didn't introduce any new characters like many like to criticize. I'm already done with it for a while. If some new characters appear then they won't play a big role and just are a story staffage! All characters of the next update except Don Morello are in the game since the demo!

I'm sure that when the next update arrives that none of the renders will be redundant as they will work well with the lines of dialogue, as they always do. The issue, I feel, is whether the dialogue could be made more concise, as I have mentioned earlier.

I'm very glad to hear that an upcoming day will just be one single event and hope very much that we will see more days where there are fewer events and can perhaps be done in one single update, or even for 2 short event days to be combined into 1 update and I have even said as much in previous posts on this thread.

Once again, I hope you don't take my words too harshly and I fully understand that this is not an easy project to be undertaking. I am honestly saying these things with the utmost respect for your work but also to, perhaps, provide some useful insight from an outside perspective because I very much want to see this game succeed and reach completion and I, like many others, am simply concerned that it might not the longer it goes on at its current pace. I hope you can understand such concerns and won't judge myself or others too harshly for having them.

 

[Mamonetti]

Although I've said it several times, either the development process changes a lot or the game will be eventually cancelled, it's just common sense. There's no way both the developer and a reasonable amount of patrons (including the fanatics) remain active for so long (from 10 to 15 years is my bet, specially considering things will go even worse as more paths are really active in parallel).

So, it's up to Lust&Passion to set his/her priorities, not us. No matter how much people can complain, it's just as simple as that.

Regards

 

[Old Dog]

I like the sound of this and it could work out really well

 

[RChandler]

I don't think L&P is trying to fool anyone, I think he is just very passionate about wanting to put out as high a quality game as he can. There are a lot of games on here that, quite frankly, are immature fantasy sex games that feel like they're written by 16 year old boys. I really respect what he's trying to do. And I do think as he continues he'll learn where he can edit without hurting the game or vision.

 

[john_jones21]

I like the sound of this and it could work out really well
View attachment 755184

The last time the patrons were asked if they wanted smaller, more frequent updates it was rejected. Maybe there was another poll since.

The original schedule was supposed to be a full day every update. After switching to half day updates they ended up taking just as long.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

I like the sound of this and it could work out really well
View attachment 755184

The times of day events (morning, noon, afternoon, and evening) are four different events. From reading this comment, I guess he is planning a 1/3 update release now? Hmmm, The upside to this is having more releases, but the flip side is possible 30 seconds to maybe a couple of minutes of content. Also; Is he going to need 3-4 months for each time of day event unless it a major update.

 

[Old Dog]

The times of day events (morning, noon, afternoon, and evening) are four different events. From reading this comment, I guess he is planning a 1/3 update release now? Hmmm, The upside to this is having more releases, but the flip side is possible 30 seconds to maybe a couple of minutes of content. Also; Is he going to need 3-4 months for each time of day event unless it a major update.

Morning,noon and evening could work out if he has to combine some events if the events are too small.

 

[Old Dog]

The last time the patrons were asked if they wanted smaller, more frequent updates it was rejected. Maybe there was another poll since.

The original schedule was supposed to be a full day every update. After switching to half day updates they ended up taking just as long.

I don't remember there ever being a full day update,maybe the demo.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Morning,noon and evening are only 3 events so he will combine smaller events into either morning,afternoon or evening but it will depend on time line between updates.

Morning,noon and evening are only 3 events so he will combine smaller events into either morning,afternoon or evening, but it will depend on time line between updates.

Then we are going to 1/3 day release if he stays with that post of his.

 

[Old Dog]

Then we are going to 1/3 day release if he stays with that post of his.

Now we just have to wait and see how all this works out

 

[Lust&Passion]

But do you need so many renders? I don't say these things to be a harsh criticism and I really don't want you to take it that way, but to quote Mark Twain; "Don't use a five-dollar word when a fifty-cent word will do." In other words, brevity; saying a lot while saying very little. Shakespeare also said that, "Brevity is the soul of wit", meaning that the essence of a good statement is that it is concise.

This, I feel, applies to the renders of this game which seem so very often to be tied to the lines of dialogue and therefore a more concise script would result in fewer renders. Such a thing would not, in my view, diminish your work in the slightest but may in fact enhance it and I would, as both a patron and a very devoted fan of this game, implore you to consider this, if not for us but for yourself as lessening your workload could be very good for easing the stress that you mentioned in your recent Patreon post.



I'm sure that when the next update arrives that none of the renders will be redundant as they will work well with the lines of dialogue, as they always do. The issue, I feel, is whether the dialogue could be made more concise, as I have mentioned earlier.

I'm very glad to hear that an upcoming day will just be one single event and hope very much that we will see more days where there are fewer events and can perhaps be done in one single update, or even for 2 short event days to be combined into 1 update and I have even said as much in previous posts on this thread.

Once again, I hope you don't take my words too harshly and I fully understand that this is not an easy project to be undertaking. I am honestly saying these things with the utmost respect for your work but also to, perhaps, provide some useful insight from an outside perspective because I very much want to see this game succeed and reach completion and I, like many others, am simply concerned that it might not the longer it goes on at its current pace. I hope you can understand such concerns and won't judge myself or others too harshly for having them.

But there's one thing you neglect. There're also that many renders because of the variety of choices. If you play the game in one go you will miss almost the half of the renders and text. The yoga event would have around 30% less renders if there wouldn't be a special choice! You really should wait for the next update first and then say which renders could be left out and I will explain why I used them. Some are still mocking that I'm using 100 renders just for walking from place to place. But I already stopped these kind of unnecessary renders since a couple of updates. If there's a walking scene then it also has a reason now. I'm also trying to use one render for longer conversations. It's hard to believe for you now but even in those around 1300 upcoming renders I tried my best to be as selective as possible! But I just needed them to tell the story the way I'm visioning it. So, just wait for the update and then we can talk again.

 

[Old Dog]

A special choice! Sounds interesting

 

[lockerxx]

a hope for a special choice in the sophie/alyssa event too!!

 

[Old Dog]

a hope for a special choice in the sophie/alyssa event too!!

We know almost nothing about the Alyssa/Sophia event except that there,maybe,a third person involved somehow.

 

[lockerxx]

We know almost nothing about the Alyssa/Sophia event except that there,maybe,a third person involved somehow.

i don´t like that. .(maybe if is another woman).

 

[john_jones21]

Now we just have to wait and see how all this works out

Well we are going back years here!

July 2018

I think I will divide them in two parts again (0.055 and 0.06). But I'm not sure now. It depends on how long I'll need for the first half of the events of the day. Generally it's very difficult to tell in advance how long the next update will be. Last update I wanted to have less than 100 renders but at the end there have been 200. So, I'm just developing the scenes and make them as long as necessary. But to bring out updates quicker they can't be very long. 0.055 will have the Dylan and Ellie scene (and also some other very small events). 0.06 would deal with other characters.

Actually the last update didn't have one new character! And new characters doesn't mean huge storylines with them. They just can be important for one special scene later.
I definitely won't need 10 years for it! But it'd definitely need at least 2-3 more years to finish it. It's very difficult to say now but I'm already trying my best to reduce render quantity and make it more efficient.

Two years ago estimated finish time for this game was 2-3 years.

On reducing the number of renders:

June 2018

1) I'm already trying to use less renders. Last update had "only" 377 renders for a whole playable day! Next playable day will maybe have not even 100 renders, to speed it up. And there are also other provider than MEGA. I think till it reaches 5 GB it will take some while!

Again, I actually quite like this game and I understand delivering it is not easy. Something in how it gets made has to change and I mean really change because every update ends up being larger/more complex than expected and that results in it taking longer.