VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

From the past few pages I am seeing that people are really looking into the dialogues and trying to find meaning in them. Being attentive is good but looking too much into it and speculating is not. It's just like a literature teacher who tries to decipher the meaning of every line in a poem whereas the poet never intended to mean anything from it.

Yes but you're forgetting something important.


There's nothing else to do.

 

[Talcum Powder]

I tend to get deleted for going off topic, but here goes anyway...

And you are right "Luck is getting a great starting hand" but when you play it, whether the people sitting at the table will believe in your movements will depend on your luck. then how convincing your game will be, this is the very 10%. and if every time you get a bad hand, some skill won't help you, all you can do is pass constantly and hope for that very good hand, but if you try to bluff, then will you be lucky?

Actually, what you're saying is all part of the game, but you're wrongly attributing the skill and experience aspects to luck. Being able to trick/deceive your opponents IS the skill. The ability to beat players regardless of what they are holding is the skill element. training yourself to have the same reaction regardless of what cards you get, training yourself to detect the subtlest change in an opponent's expression, and then the memory and math skills to remember betting hands, positional plays, results of previous hands, opponents reactions to your betting patterns, and of course, knowing the odds of making whatever hand you're trying to hit (pulling an inside straight instead of an up and down, needing a fifth spade, drawing from two pair to a full house), and then putting your odds of success (luck) against what you know about your opponents (and what you think they know about you).

P.S Sorry for my english

No need to apologize for that.

 

[Talcum Powder]

From the past few pages I am seeing that people are really looking into the dialogues and trying to find meaning in them. Being attentive is good but looking too much into it and speculating is not. It's just like a literature teacher who tries to decipher the meaning of every line in a poem whereas the poet never intended to mean anything from it.

??? Um, I think the writing in AWAM is littered with enough subtle word choices and seemingly random information drops to warrant analysis and speculation.

And, which poet(s) are you referring to, that wrote throwaway lines that weren't intended to contribute to the idea/feeling/intent of the poem? I would be curious to know, read some examples of this.

 

[ancienregimele]

From the past few pages I am seeing that people are really looking into the dialogues and trying to find meaning in them. Being attentive is good but looking too much into it and speculating is not. It's just like a literature teacher who tries to decipher the meaning of every line in a poem whereas the poet never intended to mean anything from it.

.....Yes, I used to hate those lessons where you had to analyse some poem, or chapter of a novel. If there was any pleasure to be found in any of it to start with, such an approach used to suck it out like an industrial vacuum cleaner. (I felt the same way about work that began with the lines, "Compare & Contrast....."). AWAM though is different.

Imagine a medieval banquet with dozens of courses. People would be arranged according to precedence & social class. At the top table for the AWAM banquet are the high paying patrons, while further down in gradually decreasing levels are the different tiers of subscribers. Each level has a chance to partake of the courses, to a greater or lesser extent.

Next, picture the dogs under the tables, waiting for scraps & that's your non-paying pirates, like me. We get the odd bone & when we do, we analyse & speculate the life out of it, because it's what we do....but only for those parts of the story that interest us & that's the key difference between the inter-update talking shop & the boring English Literature lesson.

 

[cloudstrife]

Yeah I really don't think there's been some prior arrangement between Liam and the Don, I think Liam is supposed to be quite a jealous guy so I really don't see him almost pimping his wife out to anyone (even if it is to cover a gambling debt). I think the Don noticed Sophia and thought she was gorgeous (and rightly so), he found out who her husband was and pretty much used Liams addiction to his advantage and get what he wants (and I don't blame him for one second, Sophia is way too hot and good for Liam)

 

[nexer]

Where is that troll? He disappears when we need him most
I felt like facepalm someone a few times today, and his face felt like it

 

[Sabertooth__]

??? Um, I think the writing in AWAM is littered with enough subtle word choices and seemingly random information drops to warrant analysis and speculation.

And, which poet(s) are you referring to, that wrote throwaway lines that weren't intended to contribute to the idea/feeling/intent of the poem? I would be curious to know, read some examples of this.

I am not denying that there are hints and subtle clues but some of the posts are really latching on to everything just to be able to say something on the matter. I know L&P is not throwing in dialogues randomly but there is analysing and then there is overanalyzing. And as I said "some" not all of them are making unreasonable speculations

 

[Sabertooth__]

With the experience I have, you will never be able to improve something without understanding it down to the smallest detail. Or you can, but it's like winning the lottery.
In my case, it's not about understanding but about predicting. The only way to predict is to understand.

And that's a good thing. Paying attention to detail is great way to appreciate the person creating the art. I am only talking about those that are just overanalyzing everything.

 

[Talcum Powder]

I am not denying that there are hints and subtle clues but some of the posts are really latching on to everything just to be able to say something on the matter. I know L&P is not throwing in dialogues randomly but there is analysing and then there is overanalyzing. And as I said "some" not all of them are making unreasonable speculations

I think we would all agree there are a lot of posts that lean closer to fan-fiction than relying on any sort of considered, inductive reasoning, but with four or five months between updates I'll not be too critical of them.

I, for example, am trying (and failing) to summon enough courage to present my theory about Aiden being a psychic, multi-phallus-ed space bug in disguise looking to save Sam and Dylan from a terrible future, a-la Jiminy Cricket. I've got lots of textual evidence and visual clues to back it up but I just don't feel like getting laughed at like so many visionaries have been throughout history.

 

[hzjujk]

I don't think there was much conspiracy at the casino event either. After Liam left the house with such high debts,
Morello will of course have used his contacts, including the police, to find out everything about his debtor.
This would have given the conditions that he would have recognized Sophia again. And saw such an opportunity.
And that Liam has secretly been to the Casiono several times does not fit the story. Sophia can leave the casino
with Liam. So if there was old debts, it would still be there now. That would be a huge logical hole in history.
And I agree with the people who say we interpret too much into the dialogues. But hey, we're bored and it's fun.

 

[ancienregimele]

I am not denying that there are hints and subtle clues but some of the posts are really latching on to everything just to be able to say something on the matter. I know L&P is not throwing in dialogues randomly but there is analysing and then there is overanalyzing. And as I said "some" not all of them are making unreasonable speculations

Didn't like the dogs under the table concept then? I could be wrong but your overall message could be read as, 'stop talking because you're irritating me.' I'm not really over-analysing, as I see it, however, everyone has their opinions, to which we're all entitled. If you check back on my posts you'll see I've stated, or rather had to state more than once, that we're all equal here. I don't need to analyse any aspect of AWAM just to be able to say something. If I wanted to do that I would start a new topic, like "who do we see as strong enough to put Sophia over their knee?" That would generate interest & controversy & I would be able to post away to my heart's content.

If you don't like the speculation, which is meant to be a fun way to pass the time, by the way, simply gloss over it. Alternatively just say that you don't agree & perhaps give the reason(s) why.

 

[xxxorro]

I don't think there was much conspiracy at the casino event either. After Liam left the house with such high debts,
Morello will of course have used his contacts, including the police, to find out everything about his debtor.
This would have given the conditions that he would have recognized Sophia again. And saw such an opportunity.
And that Liam has secretly been to the Casiono several times does not fit the story. Sophia can leave the casino
with Liam. So if there was old debt, it would still be there now. That would be a huge logical hole in history.
And I agree with the people who say we interpret too much into the dialogues. But hey, we're bored and it's fun.

Be careful, is it "debt" or "debts"? (just kidding, i could not resist)

I obviously agree with the overanalysing thing, and I'm the one who also went wild with speculations. As you say, it's just for fun while we wait for the next update. As long as we keep it civil and don't start to fight about it, it's harmless and fun.
Btw, getting back to the "debts" discussion which somehow triggered these speculations, I think it may be just a typo (there were a few here and there even in the last update) or since LP is not a native speaker (like me) he may have adopted the same usage of his native language (German?). Even in my language you can use "debts" to say 1) many different debt sources or 2) more generally the exposure you have (it could be 1 or more). If we consider the Occam's razor, I would lean for the simpler explanation. ;-)

That being said I still believe that the Morello's path is not over, a little show is just what you do before sitting at the table with these people, especially if there are 400k on the plate. Not that I want this or that I believe we see more Sophia action with the Morello's family, but I simply find it unrealistic as an end.

 

[nexer]

And that's a good thing. Paying attention to detail is great way to appreciate the person creating the art. I am only talking about those that are just overanalyzing everything.

Overanalyzing isn't a synonym of psychoanalysis?
Here, we are in Freud's boots, he also studied women's sexuality

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I think it's a pretty reasonable theory that Liam has run up additional debts prior to losing the house. That would seem to be a believable development for his character. Not an evil flaw, but certainly a major character flaw. It would speak to his addiction and that is the sort of character development this game needs. But I do think the speculation about a pre-arranged plan from Liam to involve Sophia is probably not correct. That would begin to put Liam too far into the twisted and evil category, and that doesn't seem appropriate for this game. In the end, he does truly love Sophia and he's made some mistakes, but I don't think he has any interest in pimping her out. I really do think L&P wants Liam to end up as a sympathetic character.

 

[ancienregimele]

I think it's a pretty reasonable theory that Liam has run up additional debts prior to losing the house. That would seem to be a believable development for his character. Not an evil flaw, but certainly a major character flaw. It would speak to his addiction and that is the sort of character development this game needs. But I do think the speculation about a pre-arranged plan from Liam to involve Sophia is probably not correct. That would begin to put Liam too far into the twisted and evil category, and that doesn't seem appropriate for this game. In the end, he does truly love Sophia and he's made some mistakes, but I don't think he has any interest in pimping her out. I really do think L&P wants Liam to end up as a sympathetic character.

If we got more spoilers or information on potential future plans, I think the amount of speculation would drop accordingly but it's unlikely to happen.

 

[nexer]

There is a strange thing about that scene.
When she gets home Sophia talks to Liam. And Liam is in the position of accepting and, moreover, asking Carl for help. In a short period of time Liam goes from, "no, no way, I hate Carl", to "please Carl help me".
This usually takes time to accept the situation and look for solutions. Liam looked like he had it all prepared beforehand.
I have to look at the script, but who had the idea to go to the casino? Or go out that evening?

 

[ancienregimele]

My only question to you is did I ever mention you or any of your theories. The fact that you interpret what I say as saying don't talk me.... I don't understand that at all. I am not here to look down upon anyone's opinion or to get into fights. I don't even think any of your posts or theories made me mad or anything like that. You're taking it personally bro when you're not supposed to. Everyone's opinion matters. But some people will be like the sitting posture of a certain character here is very unlike them. It definitely means something..... When it's pretty evident that it's not weird and normal and does not mean anything. That's what I am talking about.

OK, I won't take it personally, no problem. You see we get so bored during the long gaps between updates that we resort to speculation. On the other hand, sometimes the speculations turn out to be near the mark.

 

[Sabertooth__]

Overanalyzing isn't a synonym of psychoanalysis?
Here, we are in Freud's boots, he also studied women's sexuality

I don't think it is a synonym. They are completely different things. I don't even understand how you got to talking about psychoanalysis here. All I am saying is.... Well I already said what I am saying. I don't know how to clarify that I am not hating on anyone and just saying what I felt. A lot of things evidently have no meaning but there are people trying to find meaning in everything. And once again I never directed anything at you. The only thing I remember of you is that your posts aren't bad.

 

[Sabertooth__]

OK, I won't take it personally, no problem. You see we get so bored during the long gaps between updates that we resort to speculation. On the other hand, sometimes the speculations turn out to be near the mark.

When speculations turn out to be right it is a good feeling no doubt about that.
And of course the gaps between updates can be a boring period and we all start thinking about the possibilities that can take place in the storylines. Also with the updates being smaller, they only act as a tease leaving you wanting more

 

[hzjujk]

I think it's a pretty reasonable theory that Liam has run up additional debts prior to losing the house. That would seem to be a believable development for his character. Not an evil flaw, but certainly a major character flaw. It would speak to his addiction and that is the sort of character development this game needs. But I do think the speculation about a pre-arranged plan from Liam to involve Sophia is probably not correct. That would begin to put Liam too far into the twisted and evil category, and that doesn't seem appropriate for this game. In the end, he does truly love Sophia and he's made some mistakes, but I don't think he has any interest in pimping her out. I really do think L&P wants Liam to end up as a sympathetic character.

Agree, except for the additional debt.