VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.205] [Lust & Passion]

[Notretsam]

L&P would have been better off if he'd created 2 games. Unfortunately that would have been a full-time job. Alternatively he could have opted to complete AWAM within a more reasonable time frame than 30-40 years, which wouldn't have demanded F/T working but would have needed more focus on Sophia. Both methods would of necessity have not included time-wasting side jobs & numerous duplications of characters, kinks & situations. Then he could have brought out a sequel game featuring Dylan as the MC & expanded his adventures as he got older & stopped being a virgin. IMO, there is no room in a game, (any game), for 2 official MCs, it's a contradiction in terms.

As I have no interest in incest, I began playing AWAM out of curiousity having seen quality renders of Sophia & Patricia on PD2 visiting the school, in what looked like a very clean city. As always I was in search of escapism. I was aware of incest content but back then managed to avoid most of it. Right now the stories & characters that interest me are in long-term limbo, or have most likely been written out. It's years since we've seen Alyssa, Aiden isn't due back for 5+ years, Nathalie isn't scheduled to reappear until 2035 at the current pace, Bennett is nowhere & there's more but you get the idea. I basically hoped for more interactions between Sophia & adults, (as in a proper extra-marital affair) but this has been noticeably absent for a long time. I only stay with AWAM because of quality renders & out of curiosity, which is where I came in.

As an aside, I play the Aiden path but I don't do it because I want to see Sophia turn into a "filthy whore," there's 100s of games out there like that & they are boring in the extreme.

L&P decided to drop the realism, (at least there was a veneer) & the class (apart from the quality renders), to focus on a game devoted to school-boy wish fulfilment, with a huge cast of good-looking teens, that wouldn't look out of place in an early-'60s beach movie. That concept of a sex race between Dylan & Sam is risible but it's not limited to them, with other characters also playing catch-up. So much for the realism....

What's ironic is that AWAM moves at a pace which will ensure that the teen fans of today will be middle-aged, with teens of their own, by the time they get to see their favourite 'shota-lite' shag Sophia. AWAM doesn't move at the pace of the average teen porn game. I'm guessing that by that time there'll be a whole new generation of fans asking whether Sophia has had sex outside of marriage yet. That's if we believe AWAM will still be around.

I generally agree with you, I don't have much interest in incest myself but it is not hard to pretend there step related, so that is what I do. However, it has been well established in this thread that there is just too much going on, too many characters and the wait time for "follow-ups" with this character and that character is far too long, it hurts AWAM.

It certainly seems like L&P has lost his way with AWAM and is scrambling to keep people happy, I think L&P has made the mistake a number of devs have done, including myself. That is we have all these ideas and we cram them all into one story, instead of saving some for another story.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sophia/Dylan/Ellie/(Liam) are the main story. It's not just about Sophia. It is therefore wrong to pretend that events presented from Dylan's perspective steal Sophia's story. Rather, Dylan offers a part in the story of AWAM.

Also, I would not call Sophia passive. It's just that she's portrayed as a character who doesn't act out of her own motivation and thus functions poorly as an MC on her own. That Dylan works better here at the moment is, in my opinion, mainly because he is pursuing his own goals. This was already the case from the very beginning. Take the basketball game or the swimming lesson as examples. In both events, it was Sophia who only reacts while Dylan and Sam have an interest in Sophia which they pursue and even start a competition due to it (including Dylan's first decision about how to handle Sophia's interaction with other guys). I don't know which day it was, but the game didn't turn around as you depicted. It is just a very slow build-up, because there are to many side stories.

You're right, this story is called A Wife and A Mother, it should be about Dylan, Ellie, and Liam + Sophia, but I think Alley Cat and others are pointing out that there is some unnecessary stuff going on as well, this drags AWAM down and extends the wait time. The stuff with Dylan watching them shower at the gym and scenes with Dylan and Ellie wasn't needed. All that stuff really should've been skipped and the shower scene at the gym was hot, but it really shouldn't have been added and neither should any of the scenes between Dylan and Ellie, which don't include Sophia.

It would be fine if it served a purpose but following Dylan's interaction with others and the whole girlfriend route for Dylan just bogs down a game called A Wife and Mother, it's not called My Mom or a Girlfriend.

 

[keefer43]

that way it would have been hotter
View attachment 2443803

I see what you did there - perhaps I don't see it anymore!

 

[XaGnard]

You're right, this story is called A Wife and A Mother, it should be about Dylan, Ellie, and Liam + Sophia, but I think Alley Cat and others are pointing out that there is some unnecessary stuff going on as well, this drags AWAM down and extends the wait time. The stuff with Dylan watching them shower at the gym and scenes with Dylan and Ellie wasn't needed. All that stuff really should've been skipped and the shower scene at the gym was hot, but it really shouldn't have been added and neither should any of the scenes between Dylan and Ellie, which don't include Sophia.

It would be fine if it served a purpose but following Dylan's interaction with others and the whole girlfriend route for Dylan just bogs down a game called A Wife and Mother, it's not called My Mom or a Girlfriend.

I don't think L&P should cut corners with the story between Dylan and Ellie. Just as I think it was important to give Dylan the part in the shower room scene. All this is part of the main story and important, because it give the player some knowledge of secrets that are still unknown to Sophia. Especially for you as a game developer, the strength of such elements for storytelling should be clear. It can make the story deep. That's also the reason why I think the events between Dylan and Amber are so important. Imagine the event without the pseudo sex between Dylan and Amber. That would be worth much less.

Honestly, it is clear to me that AWAM should be cut down not indispensable, otherwise this game has no chance of ever being finished. The only question is which elements are really unnecessary. From my point of view, these are mainly the side jobs and at least a large part of the gangster stories. Maybe L&P could even think about to cut one of the lesbian stories (beside the on connected to Ellie). What I think would also save a lot of time is if L&P finally stopped introducing new characters and complex new locations and kill the idea of animations.

 

[Notretsam]

I don't think L&P should cut corners with the story between Dylan and Ellie. Just as I think it was important to give Dylan the part in the shower room scene. All this is part of the main story and important, because it give the player some knowledge of secrets that are still unknown to Sophia. Especially for you as a game developer, the strength of such elements for storytelling should be clear. It can make the story deep. That's also the reason why I think the events between Dylan and Amber are so important. Imagine the event without the pseudo sex between Dylan and Amber. That would be worth much less.

Honestly, it is clear to me that AWAM should be cut down not indispensable, otherwise this game has no chance of ever being finished. The only question is which elements are really unnecessary. From my point of view, these are mainly the side jobs and at least a large part of the gangster stories. Maybe L&P could even think about to cut one of the lesbian stories (beside the on connected to Ellie). What I think would also save a lot of time is if L&P finally stopped introducing new characters and complex new locations and kill the idea of animations.

as I said in my last post, the VN is called A Wife and A Mother, not a My mom or a girlfriend, this is Sophia's story, not Dylan's.

 

[Blurpee69]

as I said in my last post, the VN is called A Wife and A Mother, not a My mom or a girlfriend, this is Sophia's story, not Dylan's.

It's what most of us have been saying. I think where I differ from Alley_Cat, and perhaps he can chime in if I'm in the wrong, is that I don't really care that we're getting all this Dylan side content, I just want it to be spread more evenly across the rest of the family. In my opinion Dylan, basically from PD6 onward has been the largest influence on Sophia's life and the direction the story has gone. Either his story needs trimmed down; or Ellie, Liam, and Patricia need to have their roles expanded. Because they are family too, not side characters to Dylan and Sophia.

 

[XaGnard]

as I said in my last post, the VN is called A Wife and A Mother, not a My mom or a girlfriend, this is Sophia's story, not Dylan's.

Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. I can't imagine what a story between Dylan and Ellie would look like, told solely from Sophia's perspective. Even more, I think that L&P should definitely not do without this story, because it, at the latest as soon as Sophia gets to know about it, allows for incredibly interesting story twists.

 

[Blurpee69]

Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. I can't imagine what a story between Dylan and Ellie would look like, told solely from Sophia's perspective. Even more, I think that L&P should definitely not do without this story, because it, at the latest as soon as Sophia gets to know about it, allows for incredibly interesting story twists.

There are tons of narrative tools and techniques that can be used to infer that something is going on with Dylan and Ellie. One that I literally put about 30 seconds of thought into;

Sophia notices at the dinner table that Dylan and Ellie aren't bickering as much. Option: Sophia thinks to herself "That's nice" and nothing further comes from it, or "I should ask if anything is going on" Sophia asks her kids.

If Sophia asks, the kids can play dumb or be coy about it, which peaks Sophia's interest more and maybe she does a little investigative work. Scene of her standing on the balcony and overhears a conversation between Dylan and Ellie and learns why they're getting along better.

It plays into her being an caring and available mother to her kids, it empowers her making her a more active protagonist, and it conveys what their story is without spending unnecessary time away from Sophia's PoV.

 

[XaGnard]

There are tons of narrative tools and techniques that can be used to infer that something is going on with Dylan and Ellie. One that I literally put about 30 seconds of thought into;

Sophia notices at the dinner table that Dylan and Ellie aren't bickering as much. Option: Sophia thinks to herself "That's nice" and nothing further comes from it, or "I should ask if anything is going on" Sophia asks her kids.

The event you describe here only works properly when the player would have seen what is going on between Dylan and Ellie, but Sophia doesn't know about it yet.

No, something like this needs more than just a discussion at the kitchen table.

If Sophia asks, the kids can play dumb or be coy about it, which peaks Sophia's interest more and maybe she does a little investigative work. Scene of her standing on the balcony and overhears a conversation between Dylan and Ellie and learns why they're getting along better.

There is then completely missing the thrill between Dylan and Ellie, their efforts to keep it secret, etc. etc. It would be a boring story.

It plays into her being an caring and available mother to her kids, it empowers her making her a more active protagonist, and it conveys what their story is without spending unnecessary time away from Sophia's PoV.

I have mentioned it before, nothing is as nonsensical as the requirement to tell a story only from Sophia PoV. Why replace all the exciting events with boring discussions and inner dialogues when you can actually show them. Sorry, but I think here the idea to cut AWAM goes too far. Especially when you consider that there is so much unnecessary content in the game, with characters that really only Sophia knows and therefore have no effect on the main story.

 

[lockerxx]

off-topic did L&P finish remaking the first day of the game?

 

[Blurpee69]

The event you describe here only works properly when the player would have seen what is going on between Dylan and Ellie, but Sophia doesn't know about it yet.

No, something like this needs more than just a discussion at the kitchen table.




There is then completely missing the thrill between Dylan and Ellie, their efforts to keep it secret, etc. etc. It would be a boring story.




I have mentioned it before, nothing is as nonsensical as the requirement to tell a story only from Sophia PoV. Why replace all the exciting events with boring discussions and inner dialogues when you can actually show them. Sorry, but I think here the idea to cut AWAM goes too far. Especially when you consider that there is so much unnecessary content in the game, with characters that really only Sophia knows and therefore have no effect on the main story.

I'm at a loss for words here. I'm sorry if I'm making assumptions here, but I feel like you often times read one part of my responses and get focused on that rather than taking in my point as a whole. In this case you seem very focused on PoV, and I'm focused on trimming the narrative fat from the story. I don't mean this as an attack or an insult, I just don't know where our breakdown in philosophy is occuring here.

The whole point of that quickly thought out example, is it shows that Sophia is shrewd enough to notice a difference in her childrens behavior, inquire about, then investigate the change. It sets up a slight mystery plot, doesn't have to be a major one that can get us the viewers a little more intrigued about what's going on with her children's lives. Then we can slowly, or quickly, unravel that little mystery together along with Sophia. It was a quick little two scene example I slapped together that can lead all sorts of different places depending on other choices Sophia makes either in between those situation or after. It cuts a lot of fat from the narrative while still achieving the same results as what we already have.

And sometimes, it's better to let the reader / viewer's imagination take the reigns and fill in the blanks, not everything has to be shown.

 

[XaGnard]

I'm at a loss for words here. I'm sorry if I'm making assumptions here, but I feel like you often times read one part of my responses and get focused on that rather than taking in my point as a whole. In this case you seem very focused on PoV, and I'm focused on trimming the narrative fat from the story. I don't mean this as an attack or an insult, I just don't know where our breakdown in philosophy is occuring here.

The whole point of that quickly thought out example, is it shows that Sophia is shrewd enough to notice a difference in her childrens behavior, inquire about, then investigate the change. It sets up a slight mystery plot, doesn't have to be a major one that can get us the viewers a little more intrigued about what's going on with her children's lives. Then we can slowly, or quickly, unravel that little mystery together along with Sophia. It was a quick little two scene example I slapped together that can lead all sorts of different places depending on other choices Sophia makes either in between those situation or after. It cuts a lot of fat from the narrative while still achieving the same results as what we already have.

And sometimes, it's better to let the reader / viewer's imagination take the reigns and fill in the blanks, not everything has to be shown.

No, no, I have read what you have written and I think I have understood what you want to say. It's just that I have a different opinion. In addition, I am often a bit clumsy in expressing what I want to say. This is even more difficult because English is only my second language.

Back to the topic. I know that your approach would also tell a story, but, i think, it would do so not as well and without the excitement that a Dylan/Ellie/Sophia arc could offer. Just take the story between Dylan and Amber in the pool for example. The whole thing only becomes so good because Sophia and Sam have no idea about it. Although Sophia wonders, she can't and shouldn't know yet. Nevertheless, the player must know it, because otherwise it would have been a much too boring event. As I said, it's better to show something than just to let Sophia think about it.

 

[JorellMartis]

So she's just going to tease Harris that's it, no touching nothing, just a high?

 

[JorellMartis]

I got my hopes up for no reason

 

[Notretsam]

So thinking but if you remove all the stuff with Dylan and Amber, Dylan's perspective at the shower, Dylan's stuff with Marie, all Dylan's stuff with Ellie, and anything else that doesn't involve Sophia.

where would L&P be on the schedule?

Looking at it here, update 9 and 10 would be removed as it's Dylan-only events and no Sophia.

Think it's Safe to say the next update and update 8 would be out, as the time spent on the stuff I mentioned above being removed goes into updates 7 and 8.

So most likely be on day 14-morning updates with Sophia and Ellie, but since they're very small, maybe even could be at the noon event, which is the side job.

Just shows you how all the Dylan-only event stuff has slowed down things.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

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[XaGnard]

So thinking but if you remove all the stuff with Dylan and Amber, Dylan's perspective at the shower, Dylan's stuff with Marie, all Dylan's stuff with Ellie, and anything else that doesn't involve Sophia.

where would L&P be on the schedule?

Looking at it here, update 9 and 10 would be removed as it's Dylan-only events and no Sophia.

Think it's Safe to say the next update and update 8 would be out, as the time spent on the stuff I mentioned above being removed goes into updates 7 and 8.

So most likely be on day 14-morning updates with Sophia and Ellie, but since they're very small, maybe even could be at the noon event, which is the side job.

Just shows you how all the Dylan-only event stuff has slowed down things.

Saving time is important, but only if the game does not lose quality. That's why I keep coming back to the side jobs as an example of elements that are easy to cut out of the game, because they're just an extra story, so to speak, but they don't really help the main plot.

Dylan and Ellie on the other hand need depth, as this supports the plot and thus makes the game qualitatively better. Don't you understand that Sophia role as wife and mother is the key in this game. The more L&P fleshes out Dylan and Ellie as well, the more the emotional investment in all this charakters (including Sophia) will benefit.

Furthermore, it is often easier to show complex relationships by example as just to describe them. For example, can you remember the event on the beach. Here, L&P did a really good job of describing the starting conditions of both the relationship between Dylan and Sophia and between Dylan and Ellie. Both have developed further in the meantime, but nevertheless the knowledge of the past is important to be able to assess the implications of the events that may happen (between Dylan and Ellie and also between Sophia and Dylan) in the future. A good story simply needs a certain complexity. You have to be able to understand the reactions and emotions of the people involved.

Even though L&P still makes many mistakes, i think, he also does a lot of things right. That's one of the reasons why his story stands out so well from so many games here that are just garbage. It's not just Sophia, it's that L&P manages to integrate Sophia into a world with other people that are more than just a facade.

 

[Radoslaw Wolf]

off-topic did L&P finish remaking the first day of the game?

Not when I replayed it last time. But hey, worked as a good excuse for a bit.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Saving time is important, but only if the game does not lose quality. That's why I keep coming back to the side jobs as an example of elements that are easy to cut out of the game, because they're just an extra story, so to speak, but they don't really help the main plot.

Dylan and Ellie on the other hand need depth, as this supports the plot and thus makes the game qualitatively better. Don't you understand that Sophia role as wife and mother is the key in this game. The more L&P fleshes out Dylan and Ellie as well, the more the emotional investment in all this charakters (including Sophia) will benefit.

Furthermore, it is often easier to show complex relationships by example as just to describe them. For example, can you remember the event on the beach. Here, L&P did a really good job of describing the starting conditions of both the relationship between Dylan and Sophia and between Dylan and Ellie. Both have developed further in the meantime, but nevertheless the knowledge of the past is important to be able to assess the implications of the events that may happen (between Dylan and Ellie and also between Sophia and Dylan) in the future. A good story simply needs a certain complexity. You have to be able to understand the reactions and emotions of the people involved.

Even though L&P still makes many mistakes, i think, he also does a lot of things right. That's one of the reasons why his story stands out so well from so many games here that are just garbage. It's not just Sophia, it's that L&P manages to integrate Sophia into a world with other people that are more than just a facade.

Except that the Beach event doesn't flesh out the story between Dylan and Ellie. It was supposed to, but then L&P decided otherwise. The beach event, particularly the masturbation scene is only concerned with Dylan.

The bonus storyline which I think you're alluding to, doesn't even further the story with Sophia - it specifically excludes her..

 

[Dom Toretto]

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U forgot Mr Bennett BTW

 

[Bishop Robert]

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Zac and Mr. Murray are deserve better.