ancienregimele

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2017
1,929
6,367
The only person that can make L&P work faster is L&P. It is up to him to make any sort of decisions that could increase rate of production such as hiring writer / artist to team up.
This, as we've seen, time & again, is not likely. How he chooses to work is up to him, of course & as his own boss, so it should be. Patrons choose, again quite rightly, to subsidise his chosen work method, or at least to sponsor it. So far, so good. "Take it, or leave it" is the phrase which comes to mind & we do, whether Patron or pirate.

L&P won't change, except in one respect. What makes me think of PBR is the fact that the Dev has found numerous ways of slowing things down & this has developed some momentum, which means that delivery of the product, i.e. a finished game/VN, has become a very distant prospect. Any organisation observing such a pattern would take action, no doubt describing it as "positive," in order to find a mutually acceptable workable solution.

As the Patrons appear to have a rock solid core who opt not to vote with their wallets, change to the way Patreon operates becomes a subject for consideration.
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,931
This, as we've seen, time & again, is not likely. How he chooses to work is up to him, of course & as his own boss, so it should be. Patrons choose, again quite rightly, to subsidise his chosen work method, or at least to sponsor it. So far, so good. "Take it, or leave it" is the phrase which comes to mind & we do, whether Patron or pirate.

L&P won't change, except in one respect. What makes me think of PBR is the fact that the Dev has found numerous ways of slowing things down & this has developed some momentum, which means that delivery of the product, i.e. a finished game/VN, has become a very distant prospect. Any organisation observing such a pattern would take action, no doubt describing it as "positive," in order to find a mutually acceptable workable solution.

As the Patrons appear to have a rock solid core who opt not to vote with their wallets, change to the way Patreon operates becomes a subject for consideration.
Pirates don't really have much sway with L&P. Most of the folks complaining are getting it for free. What are the pirates gonna do? Pay him $0 instead of their previous $0?
 

Hooah

Newbie
Nov 12, 2019
74
145
Pirates don't really have much sway with L&P. Most of the folks complaining are getting it for free. What are the pirates gonna do? Pay him $0 instead of their previous $0?
It is an interesting ecosystem here, truthfully. Pirates, as you say, don't have much sway with the developers on here. And why should they? I don't think I've seen a single game have its subscriber base collapse due to anything less than total abandonment by the developer. Even as adult games have begun to blossom into a proper subgenre with mainstream presence, standbys from the pre-COVID days are still plugging along.

At the same time, I do think pirates CAN help a game. After all, there's a reason the developers themselves will often put a game on here, advertise it, and actively engage with the community. It's like why free-to-play games are very profitable-yes, most people won't pay a dime, but you'll have a MUCH larger player-base and thus more overall cash from the % who do pay.

I am not really sure why this game in particular arouses such passion, though. People get PISSED.
 
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ancienregimele

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2017
1,929
6,367
Patreon isn't going to do anything, and even if they wanted to, they couldn't. Subscribestar isn't going to do anything either. The simple facts are developers will release their games whenever they want to release their games.

I understand the frustration of slow development. I have that too. But trying to implement professional standards on solo amateur hobbyists isn't going to work. Patreon aren't their bosses or employers, they have no way to verify or force developers to do more work or do it more professionally.

People vastly overstate how much influence Patreon actually have. They don't even review games until they get reported, they definitely aren't going to independently verify whether or not devs are working on their stuff or impose deadlines on them. Again, they're the middleman, not their boss.

Patreon is more likely to ban adult content all together than to set up a verification of work process to force developers to develop things in a timely fashion.
What you say is largely correct but in this situation Patreon would act as a facilitator, not an enforcer, e.g. the possibility of bonus payments for on time work of acceptable quality would have to be agreed between Devs & their Patrons. There is more carrot than stick in this scenario, e.g. rules could be flexible enough to adjust to any unforseen circumstances.

If Patreon created the framework for a version of PBR & Devs chose not to avail themselves of it, Patrons might draw their own conclusions but ultimately things would carry on as they are now. If Devs decided that they would use the scheme, they would at least perhaps feel the need to provide more detailed, plausible reasons why a deadline wouldn't be met.

PBR can be complex, which is why management consultants have it in their arsenal of stuff which makes them a good living but it's undeniable that it can be & is successfully implemented in a variety of settings.
 

ancienregimele

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2017
1,929
6,367
Pirates don't really have much sway with L&P. Most of the folks complaining are getting it for free. What are the pirates gonna do? Pay him $0 instead of their previous $0?
Yes, that's what I intend! I used to have to produce stuff for a living, of the right quality & on time. No excuses, no quibbling, no prevarication, no dissembling. I have some empathy with those who strive for perfection, despite everything but a game/VN due to end in the 2050s is not tenable. AWAM needs something......

I've also produced stuff on commission & one time I failed but that's another off-topic story.
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,931
It is an interesting ecosystem here, truthfully. Pirates, as you say, don't have much sway with the developers on here. And why should they? I don't think I've seen a single game have its subscriber base collapse due to anything less than total abandonment by the developer. Even as adult games have begun to blossom into a proper subgenre with mainstream presence, standbys from the pre-COVID days are still plugging along.

At the same time, I do think pirates CAN help a game. After all, there's a reason the developers themselves will often put a game on here, advertise it, and actively engage with the community. It's like why free-to-play games are very profitable-yes, most people won't pay a dime, but you'll have a MUCH larger player-base and thus more overall cash from the % who do pay.

I am not really sure why this game in particular arouses such passion, though. People get PISSED.
Well, it really depends on the developer.

Using myself as an example... I work as a writer on adult games.

I am a pirate too, and a forum whore. I have pirated more games than most of the folks on here, and probably by a lot.

I don't mind talking to the people. It's a hobby of mine. I actually enjoy it. As a writer I get a lot more free time from development than the render guys... So I can chat with the people a lot of the time.

Many Devs lurk... I bet L&P is lurking around here and will read it up later if he isn't here now. I bet he will be here after the release gets here! I have caught him lurking before dropping a line in private.

Some pirates can give valuable feedback. At the same time many pirates don't know the industry very well, or are just entitled and demanding or a troll.

For many devs English isn't their first language. They are not forum whores. They are not big pirates. So they often feel a bit like an "Outsider" here. Even though this place is a lot more friendly compared to fapnation...

fapnation.jpg
 

Xyzwvu

Member
Apr 3, 2021
148
135
Quick question. If the game will have an inbuilt update button from 0.155 or 0.160, that will be for patreons to access easily. How will the people on f95 be able to access it? Will we have to download the whole game over and over or somehow we will get access to the actual game with the update button. And even after we get access, the new event updates will mostly go to patreons right? Please explain if anyone can..
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,931
Quick question. If the game will have an inbuilt update button from 0.155 or 0.160, that will be for patreons to access easily. How will the people on f95 be able to access it? Will we have to download the whole game over and over or somehow we will get access to the actual game with the update button. And even after we get access, the new event updates will mostly go to patreons right? Please explain if anyone can..
The update button will almost surely not work on a pirated version.
 

FullyAnimated

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,058
1,990
So all people here will have to download the entire game over and over again you say?
Not the entire game - just the entire chapter 2 every time there is an update. The first release of chapter 2 will be a separate game from chapter 1. Over time, Chapter 2 will probably get as big - if not bigger - as Chapter 1 has become.
 

CSK92

Member
Sep 24, 2017
471
646
ICSTOR wasn't a milker, he was a straight up con artist. I think it's really important to note the distinction. As frustrated as we are with L&P, ICSTOR is in a league of his own and deserves a special level of disdain.
I have my Theory on this Patron site with these games from Gumdrop and ISOTOR, plus L&P now.
Parents. quit giving your kids credit cards.
 

Sabertooth__

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2020
1,407
7,723
I have my Theory on this Patron site with these games from Gumdrop and ISOTOR, plus L&P now.
Parents. quit giving your kids credit cards.
Great, people here are now going to tell how others are supposed to spend their money.
Those people earn the money but a bunch of pirates will tell who to give the money to and whom not to.

People here literally have a problem with others spending money on something they don't want them to spend on.

What a shame.
 

CSK92

Member
Sep 24, 2017
471
646
Great, people here are now going to tell how others are supposed to spend their money.
Those people earn the money but a bunch of pirates will tell who to give the money to and whom not to.

People here literally have a problem with others spending money on something they don't want them to spend on.

What a shame.
Dont you have some LP defending to do?
 
Jul 1, 2019
99
191
Well guys LP has found another way to milk it even more...

He will add % for addon ...

Gonna be another 2 months of waiting ..watch ...

So much for quality over quantity... 1 event per 3 months ...and his followers here support him and still defend him ...:(

Lp isnt to blame ...we all know this 100% fact ... its his followers for letting it happen who are to blame ...the #1 problem with this game... ...
 

Rokohn

Member
Jan 26, 2018
147
145
Well guys LP has found another way to milk it even more...

He will add % for addon ...

Gonna be another 2 months of waiting ..watch ...

So much for quality over quantity... 1 event per 3 months ...and his followers here support him and still defend him ...:(
are you kidding or he really said that on patreon?
 
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