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ihl86

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Dec 8, 2019
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At least he isn't as bad as ICSTOR. Not yet, or maybe not at all, time will tell.



Edit: Your full post won't show in my reply so know I'm replying to more than the part about ICSTOR.



Original reply:

Solid reply I even liked because it's well thought out and serious.

The few areas of question or disagreement are ones that we actually don't.
When asked if I think second base is pretense to fucking, I make it clear that I both don't mean outright fucking as much as going further. Even more, a direct focus on her ability to change her emotions (physical and mental) on a dime and the other behaving in a way that perfectly falls in line with it. It comes off as weird and very unbelievable.

Then, I even wrote that the dynamic between her kids should be that way. Other guys? No. Her son and daughter? Of course.
So that's not even a disagreement as much as, at most, a misunderstanding.

The rest is total agreement or a slight difference I can totally understand.

I'll end by saying that I also never once claimed L&P's renders are anything but terrific! That's not his issue. Frankly, it's a reason to get help as it should not have taken 4 months to make that update. If it did and does...you need some help with the work.
I think his real issue is writing, planning and execution of the story if we pretend he isn't outright milking it.
Let us pretend for a second that he really is the Kubrick of adult VNs. He demands perfection, lol.
In this obviously fake scenario, his perfectionism is getting in the way of the work he's a perfectionist about. It's the equivalent of taking 25 years to make a film and the film turns out to be Cocaine Bear, lol. Mildly entertaining but otherwise nonsense and not needing a 25 year shooting process. One could assume that Cocaine Bear could be made in a couple years...with help.

But solid post. Really.
[/QUOTE]

You are right, it was a misunderstanding on my part there, with the emotion changing. To be honest, I kind of half skipped half skimmed the text with Sam, because it was too bad, so I based my view, more on the last scene with Dylan.

The part about the quality of the renders I put in, not that you were not agreeing to that, but more as an intro to the fact that I think he would still want/need to have final overview of the scenes to keep up the same quality.

Regarding perfectionism, unfortunately it's a disease. I am the same way. I want to make my own VN. I started it four years ago and I still haven't released the first iteration. It took me four months just to make my MC (combination of something I modeled myself, with some morphs from daz. Same with textures, combination of existing textures, edited by myself afterwards.) Of course, I think I can afford to do that, since I don't have any duties to patrons that are supporting me. I do it on my own time and money.
But as another example of procrastinator, perfectionist that has slowed down his work down to a crawl is GRRM. His books from the Ice and fire series are taking longer and longer until this last one 13 years or something and still not out. Crazy how this happens sometimes.
I don't know if this is indeed L&Ps problem but I can imagine it being so. As you said in your original post, he would have more to gain if he was faster with his updates and even got a new game out at some point.
If he does manage to put the game on steam, and that's a big if, the motivation there is different, as the money is one time, so you get payed by what you do, not every month while you do it.
 

Alley_Cat

Devoted Member
Jul 20, 2019
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Oh, you mean, Dylan and Sam are just 18 now... in text :ROFLMAO: I thought you mean he will do the complete story with new renders... now I get it ;)
Yeah, that will work and publish just part 2 (or part of part 2) ..
I thought Dylan was stated in-game as only being "1X". It's Ellie that's 18, being in her final year of high school.

Not counting the "All characters are 18 or older" on the intro screen, because only an idiot would believe that - Ava's sons certainly aren't.
 

xxxorro

Active Member
Jan 18, 2021
860
10,772
Perfect analysis! Would be great if you do one with the actual event out now... ;)
Thanks, even though I just try to make sense of the collective efforts to put together the bits and pieces that we have for each update.
Usually I do an "unpack" post with all the things that happened, the conditions for things to happen and so on. Maybe in a couple of days as I'm travelling (as per tradition with AWAM's releases :ROFLMAO:)
 

ihl86

Member
Dec 8, 2019
404
1,334
You are just playing with words.

No matter what you call Playboy magazine, no one equates it with porn games or porn videos.
Also, just because there is no porn in a magazine doesn't mean that a porn game or a porn video doesn't have to be porn.

And I didn't know that there were people who thought 'gangbang' was high-level sex.

Most people put gangbangs, bukkake, and anal sex in the 'dirty sex' category.
I gave Playboy magazine as an example of porn to underline the difference between what one expects versus reality. If you play a porn game you expect sex. It makes sense, as it is the norm. But that doesn't mean that it has to have it.

And I don't think low-level/high-level quality is in the same category with dirty sex.
You can have a low level quality anal scene or a high level quality anal scene. The same with a gangbang scene.
 

hu lover

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The progression is really really really slow,but she is so hot,I just can't think straight.
Some female characters are so orgasmically pretty, it sometimes makes a man have no reason to not touch down their pants.
 

Alley_Cat

Devoted Member
Jul 20, 2019
9,005
17,576
Thanks, even though I just try to make sense of the collective efforts to put together the bits and pieces that we have for each update.
Usually I do an "unpack" post with all the things that happened, the conditions for things to happen and so on. Maybe in a couple of days as I'm travelling (as per tradition with AWAM's releases :ROFLMAO:)
Interesting that one of my favourite events - Ellie's last shower - doesn't come up on the chart, since IIRC it's only 140 renders
 

Ginji

Lightning Emperor
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May 14, 2017
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I really feel that this recent update was kind of rushed, they could of put more effort into it, honestly.
this dev does not rush-why should they over 2000 people pay them every month even though half the time no update
 

hu lover

adult porn gave me purpose to be here.
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this dev does not rush-why should they over 2000 people pay them every month even though half the time no update
Fair point. This makes no sense. :(
Why would they disappoint their fans?
 

tofhdns

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2021
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I gave Playboy magazine as an example of porn to underline the difference between what one expects versus reality. If you play a porn game you expect sex. It makes sense, as it is the norm. But that doesn't mean that it has to have it.

And I don't think low-level/high-level quality is in the same category with dirty sex.
You can have a low level quality anal scene or a high level quality anal scene. The same with a gangbang scene.
I haven't seen anything that depicts anal sex or gangbang sex on a higher level.
You play with words badly.

And this game hasn't had sex in six years.
Sex doesn't have to be there, but this game has to.

And will people really tolerate the lack of sex in 'porn games'?

Again, this developer couldn't be recruiting the Patrons it is today if it advertised that there was no sex in the game.
 
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phill_leotardo

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Dec 20, 2019
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Long post incoming, skip if reading is a chore for you:

I'm never in a hurry to play the latest updates. Again, not a fan of the story as is, more interested in the development drama (never a good sign as I'm not alone). That said, I heard good things so I checked it out today.

This update? I don't see it as being good or anything more than the same old bullshit. I don't see what's so good or a turn in the right detection for the VN. It still felt lifeless and like a writer doing EVERYTHING he can to have his cake and eat it too.

There seemed to be 2-3 actual choices to be made and none that anyone would have to think about. It's all "do you want to see new content or not" decisions. Maybe 5% play the good wife route so save time and stop catering to such a small group when the dev himself clearly means to tell a story of AWAM gone bad.
Yet, even I have to admit that I have long been on the side of limiting them so that's not a bad thing in and of itself. Also, I'll finish on a positive note and say that my old idea of adding a couple renders of "fantasy"....does work! Who woulda thunk it, diehard L&P defenders?! It turns out it DOES work because, again, it's not real within the story. It's a quick fantasy. A reader that's not an actual moron can see that Dylan is imagining pulling her pants down and fucking her for 3 renders/frames. You don't suddenly think it happened and now the story is ruined. Turns out the dev agreed with...me on that. Odd, lol.
Good on him there, whether he heard the 3 of us saying it here for the idea or not. Good on him.


Now for the bad...

Everything else.

The bending of logic that still has to happen because the dev cannot write a coherent story is insane. This woman is - BY THE HOUR - fondling boys/men and being fondled by boys/men but turns into a prude when it suits the story for her not to go forward. Everyone rightfully mocks the "they were interrupted" move but almost nobody mentions (in comparison) how Sophia's morals change solely on whether the story can progress sexually or not. What she does in a scene has no connection to logic, common sense or emotion.

She's giving her son a weak handjob (more on that later) in the hot tub. She's topless. Her son is sucking on her tits and fondling them. He touched her pussy. Etc.
She can:
Go out with son (or Sam or whoever, it's all the same regardless of person and scene) in a skimpy outfit.
Pretend to be his actual date/girlfriend.
Get drunk with them.
Get into a hot tub topless or lay on a bed topless with them.
Let them play with and suck her tits.
Let them remove her panties.
Now give a weak handjob to them.
Let them cum on her chest and stomach.

And we're just talking about the two teen boys. This list is so much longer if we add the SE kids or old men or....the list is long.

Ok, so she can do all that but...when the desire to drag the story along requires it...she develops a conscience that defies all realities of how the human body and sexuality works. Every time.

"Well, it's a porn story"

1) He talks about and brags about realism all the time.
2) Even within the world of porn-logic it makes no sense. It treats Sophia like a weird robot, an emotion-LESS psycho that is down to fuck until it's time to fuck.

No, falling back on "she's an emotionally vulnerable or ignored housewife" does not cut it here. In fact, those things make it even more unrealistic in this argument.
Yes, a person feeling neglected can misbehave for attention. However, there is not this bipolar ABILITY (it is one here, it seems) to regulate good decisions and bad/naughty decisions in the heat of the moment.

The fact that this is all happening in 3-4 hour spans (each update) makes it all the more ridiculous. Let us imagine she is a real person for a second:
Sophia is clearly already predisposed to sexually misbehaving. This didn't begin with a move or the first time her husband neglected her. The Sophia we see would have already been cheating on her husband BEFORE the story began. Yet, it's a story so let's focus on it when I say that she then would already be cheating now. Clearly...if the writer didn't want to prolong it for as long as possible for money.

"They were interrupted" is actually nowhere near as bad as "Sophia magically grew a conscience while getting her tits sucked or whatever else" when it comes to ridiculousness.
How do you avoid it? You avoid the ridiculousness by writing in a way where you don't need logical insanity to avoid what you don't want to give. It's that simple. Write around it. IF WRITING AROUND IT MAKES A BAD PORN STORY...there ya go! It's telling you what we already know and what I'm saying here. It's self-evident.

I'm sorry but a weak handy and getting hit with cum doesn't suddenly make this the best scene/update. For anyone that wants a decent story, it kinda makes it worse due to how little it makes any sense. Beyond that, both Sam scenes were better from a believability sense and those were rife with nonsense, lol.

**Also, if you're just in it to cum ignore this. Ignore all this. Ignore the entire thread and just cum every 4-8 months. I'm not talking to you. Plenty of you exist, go on in peace. Have fun.
I'm talking to those that cannot check out this VN and ignore how obvious it is that it's a money grab. Not just an enterprise that makes money but literally on par with Apple secretly making your old phone slower, lol. It's nonsense. **

Now the dev is claiming he WANTS to hire a team AFTER he makes a Steam release?! Lmao, ok. He has claimed to want to hire people for 5 years without doing it and he now makes it clear that your support is going toward helping him get on Steam...which is an admission to only wanting money. If it happens naturally, great! If you have to nickel and dime your supporters by dragging out your story to make it happen I don't know wtf to say to that beyond saying it's scummy.

I'll end by saying that L&P almost certainly reads this forum. He has threatened specific posters from time to time with litigation (good luck with that, lol) so we know he comes here. It even seems he may be using some ideas posted here so good on that.
If he sees this, let me say to him that it's time to completely rethink this story and your approach to it. The high that some have from finally seeing her make a person cum after 6 years will fade in a week and they'll fall back to realizing this is a giant mess of a VN. So don't bank on the good will you feel in the immediate aftermath.
Don't wait until you're on Steam to fix this. Fix it BEFORE you go on Steam. Even if you think new Steam users can replace those old-time supporters that bail on you after 6 years of only getting a weak handjob, those new Steam users will bail (and issue chargebacks) when they also realize you aren't serious about progression or inadequate to do so effectively if you are serious.

Hire people NOW. Fuck that, hire them 2 years ago. Fix this mess of a story. There are a ton of redeemable qualities here but it's ruined by this weird, insane "script" that anyone with a brain can see isn't real, or at best is a very loose framework. Fuck off with this playable day bullshit. End that. It makes even less sense when every update is just 3-4 hours of her life. When played in full it shows a psychotic woman living a totally batshit insane daily life, lol. It's not good storytelling.

A quick fix:
1) Change days to months.

2) Stop putting her in situations where she WILL go further but is interrupted or suddenly grows a conscience. That can happen once, maybe twice. Three if pushing it. This shit is in every update, lol.

3) In a massive sign of how NOT planned it all is, cut the storylines that aren't wanted or needed or cared about. Clearly, the lofty plans you had when you imagined this story aren't conducive to finishing a dumb porn story in under 30 years. CUT THE FAT.

4) Add more moments of fantasy to give fans something to look at as you turn the ship around. It was good to add it this update and it's basically free content in that it shows a FAKE imagining of what people want to see one day. It's all upside as long as it's kept short.

5) Make Sophia wake up soon and have a coming to reality moment. Either she wants to fuck XYZ or she doesn't and if it happens it'll be reluctantly (blackmail, coercion, etc). Basically, get rid of her back amd forth logic. Get rid of her putting herself in positions she later backs out of as if she didn't know where it was going. By now she should know if she wants to fuck Sam or anyone else she has met. The ONLY person she should feel any of that iffy-ness with is her kids. Sure, leave that as is. Everyone else? She does or doesn't and will act accordingly when put in the situation.
"Well, so she's just supposed to fuck Sam when she sees him next?"
No, not necessarily. Just don't write them into a scenario where he's sucking on her tits and rubbing her pussy if she isn't down to do something more. That's not hard. Sexual tension can exist in scenarios where they outright can't start fucking, lol.
Just stop the back and forth bullshit as a way FOR THE DEV to not show what he doesn't want to show yet. It's easy with any effort at all.

I'll end by saying that Daz is not quick or easy. I've always said that. All the more reason to hire help.
I'll also add that even writing a story is not easy, all the more reason to hire help.
I'm even add that writing the Python/Renpy code is easier but still a bit of work...all the more reason to hire help.

L&P, you recently said that you wanna finish this to start something new. Great! However, you say a lot of shit that you don't do.
IMHO, your handling of AWAM in the next year will determine if you're just a milking clown or an actual creator that can see his mistakes, fix them to tell a truly terrific story and then build on his legacy (and fortune) with OTHER, good stories. Literally, righting this ship and finishing it before 2035 is better for your financial future than milking this story. It may not seem like it but it is. You can ruin your reputation here...or build it for future success. Up to you.

As is now, you seem like a cheap, power hungry egomaniac that can't admit when he's fucked up or may need some help. You have time to change that view of yourself but it's running out and Steam won't save it if you don't make necessary changes.
I talk a lot of shit but it's all been deserved and I'll happily take it back and praise you if you turn this thing around. As is, that last update wasn't some great new direction as much as a magnifying glass exposing the flaws in your story and style.

Edit: Fixed a few autocorrect errors
I don't think you're talking shit, much the opposite, i think you're spot on. He isn't working on a garbage PC setup to do rendering, the game barely has animations at all and he intends to add more inconsistent add-ons each time delaying development time, nothing that hasn't been discussed a thousand times.

The steam release will give him an excuse to delay for months lol
 
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