VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.215f] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

The swapping route looks terrible in terms of dialogue.
From Liam is such a "oh yeah she looks very good, you could go take it in the ass for all I care with Andy".
Seems like the writing is getting worse tbh or maybe the writing is only good on subjects that L&P likes and puts in the effort.

I think everyone agrees that the scene with Andy and Cathy was really poorly written.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Personally I think it would make the most sense for Natalie to have two completely independent routes- one of the GW route and the other of the FW route. She's a character that definitely skirts both routes and could be a fun addition for a threeway on the GW route, or a lesbian lover for Sophia to cheat with on the FW route. Creating two separate stories for her would be too much for L&P, so I don't expect it, but it would be fun.

True. I'd much prefer if she stayed on the lesbian route, I'm just not keeping my hopes up.

The swapping route looks terrible in terms of dialogue.
From Liam is such a "oh yeah she looks very good, you could go take it in the ass for all I care with Andy".
Seems like the writing is getting worse tbh or maybe the writing is only good on subjects that L&P likes and puts in the effort.

Or sees where the money is. From memory is shortened the morning GW event just because Liam isn't the most popular.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

True. I'd much prefer if she stayed on the lesbian route, I'm just not keeping my hopes up.

Or sees where the money is. From memory is shortened the morning GW event just because Liam isn't the most popular.

That's a vicious cycle to get in to. Liam hasn't had many scenes which definitely contributes to his (lack of) popularity. If he keeps cutting Liam material then it's just going to make the situation worse. I really wish we'd get more from Liam so that we could develop his character more fully.

 

[Alley_Cat]

That's a vicious cycle to get in to. Liam hasn't had many scenes which definitely contributes to his (lack of) popularity. If he keeps cutting Liam material then it's just going to make the situation worse. I really wish we'd get more from Liam so that we could develop his character more fully.

Oh, I don't think that matters that much. I'm pretty sure the overwhelming reason for his unpopularity is simply because he's the husband, and most find him vanilla. Certainly doesn't help that he hasn't many scenes though.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

Why do you think that. Except for Liam's over enthusiasm I didn't feel anything out of place. It was a very stagnant scene as during the whole conversation the renders weren't even changing which contributed to making the scene less engaging.

He skipped the unnecessary talk and got to the crux because making additional renders and writing unnecessary dialogue would only prolong a scene which has nothing sexual in it and of course no one would be interested in that. I liked how Cathy and Andy weren't going into or were already in the swinger lifestyle. They wanted to try it once and rely on their friends due to the discomfort of a typical bachelor party, so the reasoning seemed fine to me.

The scene was lackluster but I believe there was really no point in putting a huge amount of effort into that scene when nothing erotic was going to happen. The whole purpose of the scene was to just pitch the idea of swinging, we don't even have to make a decision regarding that as of now.

Thank you for coming to our house
We dont want those dirty stag parties so I was wondering if I can fuck your husband and Andy was wondering if he can fuck you..
We're totally cool if not.
Sorry to drop this one on you guys just like that.
Bye take care

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Why do you think that.

The scene was lackluster

The scene was really boring, abrupt, and felt lazy. It reminded me a lot of the sauna scene. L&P is not a strong writer of conversational dialog. He does ok when the situation is sexually charged like the hot tub with Sam, but when scenes require plot development outside of sex, L&P struggles to make compelling dialog.

For the swapping conversation, he tells us how close the four of them are, but we never see a closeness in the dialog. Everything was very stilted, focusing on a point by point approach to the conversation. It wasn't fun, it wasn't sexy, it wasn't engaging. It was purely functional. In a game with 1,000 images, the lack of images in the scene was just lazy, and the writing reflected that. This scene existed purely to set up future events and was treated as an afterthought.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

He skipped the unnecessary talk and got to the crux because making additional renders and writing unnecessary dialogue would only prolong a scene which has nothing sexual in it and of course no one would be interested in that. I liked how Cathy and Andy weren't going into or were already in the swinger lifestyle. They wanted to try it once and rely on their friends due to the discomfort of a typical bachelor party, so the reasoning seemed fine to me.

Tbf L&P did what we've been saying for a while now: re-use renders when they are talking, no need for many micro expressions, and limit dialogue to a minimum. We can't really fault him for doing what "we" asked on scenes no one is going back to check twice so kudos to him, in a way.
The whole update felt a bit poorly written though, I'm guessing he tried to rush it.
Curious to see how the update per event will run, maybe he gets on track.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

The scene was really boring, abrupt, and felt lazy. It reminded me a lot of the sauna scene. L&P is not a strong writer of conversational dialog. He does ok when the situation is sexually charged like the hot tub with Sam, but when scenes require plot development outside of sex, L&P struggles to make compelling dialog.

For the swapping conversation, he tells us how close the four of them are, but we never see a closeness in the dialog. Everything was very stilted, focusing on a point by point approach to the conversation. It wasn't fun, it wasn't sexy, it wasn't engaging. It was purely functional. In a game with 1,000 images, the lack of images in the scene was just lazy, and the writing reflected that. This scene existed purely to set up future events and was treated as an afterthought.

I think its sort of established that L&P is putting a lot of filler into his initial story to make this drag as long as possible so I'm guessing that all the good scenes were scenes he had in his head to eventually happen in the story initially and the rushed scenes are scenes he's making almost on-the-spot. Just a theory

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Tbf L&P did what we've been saying for a while now: re-use renders when they are talking, no need for many micro expressions, and limit dialogue to a minimum. We can't really fault him for doing what "we" asked on scenes no one is going back to check twice so kudos to him, in a way.
The whole update felt a bit poorly written though, I'm guessing he tried to rush it.
Curious to see how the update per event will run, maybe he gets on track.

This is fair, and I don't want to be a hypocrite and say that the scene needed 300 renders. But the renders he used were just really boring. Very simple back and forth shots, with standard blocking, no creativity. But if the writing had been better it would have been ok. But we see that L&P lives and dies by his renders. When he takes shortcuts with his renders, I think it exposes his writing more than usual. If he's going to take short cuts with his renders then he needs to write dialog that is more compelling than what we got in the swapping scene.

 

[keefer43]

Or Liam has great sex with Cathy and last a lot longer than he has done with Sophia and able to carry on having sex with Cathy for much of the night.
Sophia is concerned by this and wonders how can he last this long with Cathy but not me.
I think that Liam is into the partner swopping but Sophia is not so sure either way I think that either Liam or Sophia will be unhappy with the partner swopping and my money is on Sophia

I think you might be right - this is not Sophia's idea.

 

[Alley_Cat]

I will agree with this. Even I believe that the scene had nothing interesting going on and it was boring. But fairly I didn't expect much. Once I knew nothing sexual will happen I knew wasn't going to be a fun scene either. The conversations between them as you said never felt too close. But I really don't know if he was even trying to put the effort for it. Maybe he is reverting to the logic of putting in his best for the important scenes and rushing through those which don't have much significance. He had to pitch the idea. He did it with a good enough reason and moved forward.

The conversation was point to point because I guess that's where his real nature shows. We know how in his actual conversations with other people he speaks to the point and keeps it short.

The lack of image was what was really making the scene boring. I can't really blame him because everyone just keeps telling him to reduce the render count and deliver more and more. It got it's purpose across and I expected nothing more from it. It was not brilliant writing, which can also be scene from my review as I have rated this scene low, but I believe that it was intentional choice to not put the effort as it was not worth it.


I never asked him to reuse or remove renders, a lot of people did but I was content with what it was. I liked all of it, the expressions, the flow but it just wasn't there this time. To be honest it did feel like it affected the quality. It wasn't Awam like and the Cathy event is just that. Since nothing erotic is happening the focus is on the conversation and the renders and when there are not enough renders by his standards the scene just feels weak, hence why it even feels abrupt to many and why it was boring visually.

I have always stated that the one thing he should not do is reduce his render requirement. If he feels a scene needs 500 renders I'm all for it. The only thing that he needs to adjust is his speed. Actively reducing render count has negative impact for him.

Except that speed and render count are inextricably linked. If you calculate and average his render count per day over most of his updates, it works out to be about 7 renders per day, fairly consistently. So the only way to reduce the time taken to create an event is to reduce the number of renders.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

Why do you think that. Except for Liam's over enthusiasm I didn't feel anything out of place. It was a very stagnant scene as during the whole conversation the renders weren't even changing which contributed to making the scene less engaging.

He skipped the unnecessary talk and got to the crux because making additional renders and writing unnecessary dialogue would only prolong a scene which has nothing sexual in it and of course no one would be interested in that. I liked how Cathy and Andy weren't going into or were already in the swinger lifestyle. They wanted to try it once and rely on their friends due to the discomfort of a typical bachelor party, so the reasoning seemed fine to me.

The scene was lackluster but I believe there was really no point in putting a huge amount of effort into that scene when nothing erotic was going to happen. The whole purpose of the scene was to just pitch the idea of swinging, we don't even have to make a decision regarding that as of now.

Here is the question from the Andy Cathy event. They clearly indicate that the couples had been rather open about sexual discussions before the move. And apparently so for years. In relation to the story then HOW did Sophia show up on day one as so incredibly restricted in her thinking on the subject? What were all those discussions about - the mating habit of Penguins? The whole 'let's just thrust this question' request into the open seems to completely negate the previous (4years real time) 12 PDs that have occurred. Who the hell was the Sophia we have met over this time frame? Where did she come from? Where did the Sophia that was apparently Cathy's friend/big sister these last 12 PDs? Poorly written absolutely!

 

[ashitanojoe]

Why do you think that. Except for Liam's over enthusiasm I didn't feel anything out of place. It was a very stagnant scene as during the whole conversation the renders weren't even changing which contributed to making the scene less engaging.

He skipped the unnecessary talk and got to the crux because making additional renders and writing unnecessary dialogue would only prolong a scene which has nothing sexual in it and of course no one would be interested in that. I liked how Cathy and Andy weren't going into or were already in the swinger lifestyle. They wanted to try it once and rely on their friends due to the discomfort of a typical bachelor party, so the reasoning seemed fine to me.

The scene was lackluster but I believe there was really no point in putting a huge amount of effort into that scene when nothing erotic was going to happen. The whole purpose of the scene was to just pitch the idea of swinging, we don't even have to make a decision regarding that as of now.

I strongly disagree with you, the principal quality of this VN is the build up, that's why the story progression is slow, but that's the essence of the game. There have been almost no build up involving Cathy and Andy before the swinger proposition, mainly from Sophia's perspective, Liam had the wedding dress event at least. And I think that is a mistake. I already wrote something on how that event would have been better in my opinion:

- In Cathy's event I think that the swinger proposition happened abruptly, as players you haven't show us too much about Andy, why Sophia could be interested in having sex with him? I think that the event would have been better if they all drink alcohol and start dancing between each other, like changing dance partners sometimes, then Sophia could feel some attraction for Andy and have some thoughts around him. After that, they could make the proposition to Liam and Sophia. But for now, it seems that there's no reason for Sophia to accept having sex with him, it would have been better some near interaction between them first.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

I will agree with this. Even I believe that the scene had nothing interesting going on and it was boring. But fairly I didn't expect much. Once I knew nothing sexual will happen I knew wasn't going to be a fun scene either. The conversations between them as you said never felt too close. But I really don't know if he was even trying to put the effort for it. Maybe he is reverting to the logic of putting in his best for the important scenes and rushing through those which don't have much significance. He had to pitch the idea. He did it with a good enough reason and moved forward.

The conversation was point to point because I guess that's where his real nature shows. We know how in his actual conversations with other people he speaks to the point and keeps it short.

The lack of image was what was really making the scene boring. I can't really blame him because everyone just keeps telling him to reduce the render count and deliver more and more. It got it's purpose across and I expected nothing more from it. It was not brilliant writing, which can also be scene from my review as I have rated this scene low, but I believe that it was intentional choice to not put the effort as it was not worth it.


I never asked him to reuse or remove renders, a lot of people did but I was content with what it was. I liked all of it, the expressions, the flow but it just wasn't there this time. To be honest it did feel like it affected the quality. It wasn't Awam like and the Cathy event is just that. Since nothing erotic is happening the focus is on the conversation and the renders and when there are not enough renders by his standards the scene just feels weak, hence why it even feels abrupt to many and why it was boring visually.

I have always stated that the one thing he should not do is reduce his render requirement. If he feels a scene needs 500 renders I'm all for it. The only thing that he needs to adjust is his speed. Actively reducing render count has negative impact for him.

I disagree on your assertion that L&P is short and to the point in conversations. In my contact with him I never found that to be the case. In fact he would beat a point to death even if he was wrong. It was an unending diatribe which he has exhibited in his posts here.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Here is the question from the Andy Cathy event. They clearly indicate that the couples had been rather open about sexual discussions before the move. And apparently so for years. In relation to the story then HOW did Sophia show up on day one as so incredibly restricted in her thinking on the subject? What were all those discussions about - the mating habit of Penguins? The whole 'let's just thrust this question' request into the open seems to completely negate the previous (4years real time) 12 PDs that have occurred. Who the hell was the Sophia we have met over this time frame? Where did she come from? Where did the Sophia that was apparently Cathy's friend/big sister these last 12 PDs? Poorly written absolutely!

Pigeons, not penguins.

 

[What'sNew]

I have to say I didnt nearly put as much thought into the story like the ppl above me did with the Andy Cathy event

But what I have noticed is that the writing in the latest chapter has a lot more errors than usual, mostly grammatical errors. Sometimes I even question whether the right words were used because sentences just came out weird.

It makes it seem as if L&P hired a different writer at some point because the differences from previous chapters is jarring.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

Pigeons, not penguins.

Penguins- because their colors most closely resemble a Nun's Habit. Sophia's early views as if she was from a nunnery. Hey, I am working here.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

I have to say I didnt nearly put as much thought into the story like the ppl above me did with the Andy Cathy event

But what I have noticed is that the writing in the latest chapter has a lot more errors than usual, mostly grammatical errors. Sometimes I even question whether the right words were used because sentences just came out weird.

It makes it seem as if L&P hired a different writer at some point because the differences from previous chapters is jarring.

I think the real answer is he did not hire a writer or translator and the shit came out bad. His "NEW" plan indicates he sees writing as a problem and he has also indicated it is not done. Probably not even an outline for anything beyond what he is currently working. Ergo this is the real problem. Tie in the problems GingerSweetGirl has noted and the wheels are coming of this wagon.

He needs to sit down and solve the story issue before he gets into the creation of renders issue. He needs the guide to get to the endgame. I don't think it will happen.

 

[Alley_Cat]

I have to say I didnt nearly put as much thought into the story like the ppl above me did with the Andy Cathy event

But what I have noticed is that the writing in the latest chapter has a lot more errors than usual, mostly grammatical errors. Sometimes I even question whether the right words were used because sentences just came out weird.

It makes it seem as if L&P hired a different writer at some point because the differences from previous chapters is jarring.

Considering how often we hear about someone working with L&P but then dropping out or losing interest, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case (different writers for different updates).

That said, I found the dialogue in the Nat event to run pretty smoothly. I might not have noticed the errors in the Cathy event, mainly because I skimmed over that event pretty quickly. I probably spent 30 minutes playing the Nat event, and 5 mins skimming over the Cathy event, mainly because I have no interest in Andy.

 

[What'sNew]

I think the real answer is he did not hire a writer or translator and the shit came out bad. His "NEW" plan indicates he sees writing as a problem and he has also indicated it is not done. Probably not even an outline for anything beyond what he is currently working. Ergo this is the real problem. Tie in the problems GingerSweetGirl has noted and the wheels are coming of this wagon.

He needs to sit down and solve the story issue before he gets into the creation of renders issue. He needs the guide to get to the endgame. I don't think it will happen.

I see. Honestly not everything in the latest version is bad.

The scenes involving Sam and the one between Dylan and Christine are of the quality I have come to expect from L&P. I thoroughly enjoyed those scenes.

I was not aware that L&P was taking a new approach in his game development process, but sacrificing the writing is definite no-no for me. Cant say I noticed the reduced number of renders so that's not a problem for me.