That's the only thing you're responding to. The amount of renders he made in .201 (which was much easier than previous updates as Dr.SigmundFap pointed out, which you also ignored), and how quality takes time. You've not responded to or acknowledged anything I said in my previous posts. You just skip it and ask questions or change the topic entirely.
Nothing to say to any of this? Where exactly are your arguments?
But I guess we're making some kind of progress if you assume L&P is working 2.5hrs per day at max, which isn't even a part-time job. A fracture of what he himself claimed a while ago, which was 11 hours a day if I remember correctly. And yet he's still getting slower. Makes you wonder...doesn't it?
I've literally mentioned yesterday in the offtopic thread that I'd be surprised if he's working more than 20hrs a week at this point. So yeah, I would agree with what you said. lol
None of the above points you quoted address my original point that I keep repeating. You deliberately choose to ignore it and pretend that it does not matter when it absolutely does.
This chart is useless in showing the speed of development as it does not show what actually goes into individual PD, Each PD have different amount of content in them, also as the game develops each PD will naturally get bigger as the game contains branching paths. Bigger PD requires more work, therefore it takes longer to create.
This breakdown is way better because it shows average renders per day measure.
You can see in part 1 you get around 7 renders per day for most of the updates. Lowest value is 5 and the highest is 9.
Now for the part two, where the quality improved, renders per day is about 4 on average. Lowest is 3.42 while highest is 6ish.
Worth mentioning that updates with lower average contain animations or some reworks.
Overall you can see, that the updates are actually produced at a fairly constant rate and as the story progresses each day contains more events and their variations and therefore take more time. PD 1 & 2 contained 940 renders of low quality in total, PD13 alone contains 3533 renders (!) of high quality. That's 3.7 times more than PD 1 and 2 combined.
Good point. "Jessica O’Neil Hard News" might be another game by L&P . The dev of "Jessica O’Neil Hard News" also updated the model to gen 9 a month or two before AWAM :
None of the above points you quoted address my original point that I keep repeating. You deliberately choose to ignore it and pretend that it does not matter when it absolutely does.
View attachment 3739411
This chart is useless in showing the speed of development as it does not show what actually goes into individual PD, Each PD have different amount of content in them, also as the game develops each PD will naturally get bigger as the game contains branching paths. Bigger PD requires more work, therefore it takes longer to create.
This breakdown is way better because it shows average renders per day measure.
You can see in part 1 you get around 7 renders per day for most of the updates. Lowest value is 5 and the highest is 9.
Now for the part two, where the quality improved, renders per day is about 4 on average. Lowest is 3.42 while highest is 6ish.
Worth mentioning that updates with lower average contain animations or some reworks.
Overall you can see, that the updates are actually produced at a fairly constant rate and as the story progresses each day contains more events and their variations and therefore take more time. PD 1 & 2 contained 940 renders of low quality in total, PD13 alone contains 3533 renders (!) of high quality. That's 3.7 times more than PD 1 and 2 combined.
The first graph was a simple showcase of how the story is progressing so slow that a finished game can at this point be expected in 50 years, partly because he's getting constantly slower, but also because as you said yourself, the amount of renders per PD is increasing.
As for the second part of your post involving the other graph; His lowest is actually 3.08 renders/day (.v200) not 3.42, which just shows that pretty much every year he's breaking his negative records. The render quality did not really improve in part 02 either. It is pretty consistent for years with the only difference being the use of AI (Topaz Labs) and possibly different photoshop settings/filters. Other than that, he's been pushing the limits of DAZ for years. And no, running his renders through this tool doesn't even add a single day of devtime per entire PD, so that argument of yours falls flat. That's why I keep telling you to look at renders from before part 02, for example 2020 or 2021. Years where he's still released 1/3rd PD updates with higher render/day counts in general. (This is exactly what's addressing your original point, and I said all of this before, but okay)
Yes, PD's contain more content and routes, but that's got nothing to do with renders/day and it's also pretty clear that this is not a sustainable way to develop the game if he ever wants to finish it (which can be seen in graph 01), which by the way he's lied multiple times about various things regarding this point in particular. You'd know that had you been here for some time. That's not your fault obviously.
As for your comparison between PD 1+2 and 13.... What even is your point? First off, the graph does not show PD 1+2 as it starts on PD3 (Edit: My bad, the first graph starts on PD3 and apparently you've been only talking about the amount of renders as can be seen in the second graph, not the time it took). We don't know how long PD1+2 took because well...it was the first release. Anyway, your numbers suggest you're talking about PD3+4... Also, you should absolutely consider the experience he's had when starting this project compared to now, 7 years later. You can't just come here saying "higher quality blah..." but then ignore everything else. A newbie will always work much slower compared to someone with 7 years experience. The newbie will also produce lower quality content for obvious reasons. With that in mind, the gap should not be this massive as the increased quality also comes with more experience and a massive DAZ library, thus much less new stuff to make for updates and yet he's still getting slower producing less renders per year.
As you can see in the 2nd graph, he even got faster during the early PD's and kept a somewhat decent pace until roughly 2020, and that is with constantly increasing quality. Quite the opposite of what you're talking about, no? The game's been in a constant downward spiral ever since. Which is funny because that's when he's massively upgraded his hardware aswell and his Patreon started to pop off.
Regarding lower renders/day for updates involving Animations&Co; It's funny you would mention it because according to L&P, animations would never cause delays. Not getting into this, but lots of people here had many good laughs at his several contradicting statements on that topic alone.
Anyway... There's been many people like you. They come and they eventually go...or they realize that shit's not right if they stay long enough. Some are still here and just take what they can get, others like me are more vocal about the bullshit. In the end we're all in the same boat. Glad you atleast made the effort to address my points.
None of the above points you quoted address my original point that I keep repeating. You deliberately choose to ignore it and pretend that it does not matter when it absolutely does.
View attachment 3739411
This chart is useless in showing the speed of development as it does not show what actually goes into individual PD, Each PD have different amount of content in them, also as the game develops each PD will naturally get bigger as the game contains branching paths. Bigger PD requires more work, therefore it takes longer to create.
Sadly the time to do PD13 was abysmal.
We are talking for 26 months just for one day of the game.
And no the number of renders are not even enough to make a plausible excuse.
TBH what were great renders 7 years ago aren't as good compared to what comes out on the non-cartoon games now, plus apparently he fucked up her looks for some reason. Maybe her pussy was starting to rot from lack of use?
Also, you should absolutely consider the experience he's had when starting this project compared to now, 7 years later. You can't just come here saying "higher quality blah..." but then ignore everything else. A newbie will always work much slower compared to someone with 7 years experience. The newbie will also produce lower quality content for obvious reasons. With that in mind, the gap should not be this massive as the increased quality also comes with more experience and a massive DAZ library, thus much less new stuff to make for updates and yet he's still getting slower producing less renders per year.
The game's been in a constant downward spiral ever since. Which is funny because that's when he's massively upgraded his hardware aswell and his Patreon started to pop off.
*Yes, skilled workers never invest more time than beginners in order to provide better results than beginners.*
(2017 is excluded because the start date cannot be specified.)
This creator's workload or speed, is steadily and consistently declining.
(It dropped from a high of 7.60 to a low of 3.07.)
This can never be a coincidence.
It seems likely that this creator is either resting most of the day or working on other games.
Do you actually know the process of producing renders? The majority of time goes into creating the scene (environment assets, lighting, whatever DAZ settings you use, setting up characters and their clothing). Once that's done, you mostly just pose characters and change camera angles for each render. Render times are in the single digit minutes with L&P's rigs.
So no, 4.25 renders is abysmal, especially considering your example only has renders inside an empty Sauna asset with women wrapped in towels and nothing else (see Dr.SigmundFap's post above).
You also seem to not really be aware of the fact that L&P is getting slower and slower every single year. Good render quality does not mean you produce less overall renders every year either. You might be new to this project and so I can't blame you for trying to be positive about this, but you'll eventually come to the realization that with L&P it is ALWAYS a downhill ride, never up or even a constant.
And no, I'm not here "demanding" him to work faster or provide me with any particular content as yes, I'm not paying this guy anymore. Been there, done that. He can do whatever he wants, and I can come here and criticize his statements, straight up lies, slow development and the above mentioned constant downhill ride for years.
What if I told you L&P makes more than $100k from less than 2k patrons plus he runs his agenda on SubscriberStar,
If he says he wants to bring in a developer then he needs to buy the designer all the necessary tech that he needs that will make him meet game deadlines,
It’s been a while since anybody has rubbed Sophia’s belly, which seems to be a little fetish of the dev’s. It’s a nice little piece of early foreplay. Sophia’s new outfit seems to invite it.
Speaking of belly rubbing, could Ryan the gym employee make an appearance? Probably not. Unless maybe it’s so DeShawn can put him in his place. Sophia swoons when guys act tough.
We’ve seen a gym rat rub her belly, a Latino rub her belly over her skirt (Alley scene), her sister, her son, a teen girl, her young female employee, her male teen neighbor, and her student. But no black belly-rubbers yet.
The first graph was a simple showcase of how the story is progressing so slow that a finished game can at this point be expected in 50 years, partly because he's getting constantly slower, but also because as you said yourself, the amount of renders per PD is increasing.
As for the second part of your post involving the other graph; His lowest is actually 3.08 renders/day (.v200) not 3.42, which just shows that pretty much every year he's breaking his negative records. The render quality did not really improve in part 02 either. It is pretty consistent for years with the only difference being the use of AI (Topaz Labs) and possibly different photoshop settings/filters. Other than that, he's been pushing the limits of DAZ for years. And no, running his renders through this tool doesn't even add a single day of devtime per entire PD, so that argument of yours falls flat. That's why I keep telling you to look at renders from before part 02, for example 2020 or 2021. Years where he's still released 1/3rd PD updates with higher render/day counts in general. (This is exactly what's addressing your original point, and I said all of this before, but okay)
Yes, PD's contain more content and routes, but that's got nothing to do with renders/day and it's also pretty clear that this is not a sustainable way to develop the game if he ever wants to finish it (which can be seen in graph 01), which by the way he's lied multiple times about various things regarding this point in particular. You'd know that had you been here for some time. That's not your fault obviously.
As for your comparison between PD 1+2 and 13.... What even is your point? First off, the graph does not show PD 1+2 as it starts on PD3 (Edit: My bad, the first graph starts on PD3 and apparently you've been only talking about the amount of renders as can be seen in the second graph, not the time it took). We don't know how long PD1+2 took because well...it was the first release. Anyway, your numbers suggest you're talking about PD3+4... Also, you should absolutely consider the experience he's had when starting this project compared to now, 7 years later. You can't just come here saying "higher quality blah..." but then ignore everything else. A newbie will always work much slower compared to someone with 7 years experience. The newbie will also produce lower quality content for obvious reasons. With that in mind, the gap should not be this massive as the increased quality also comes with more experience and a massive DAZ library, thus much less new stuff to make for updates and yet he's still getting slower producing less renders per year.
As you can see in the 2nd graph, he even got faster during the early PD's and kept a somewhat decent pace until roughly 2020, and that is with constantly increasing quality. Quite the opposite of what you're talking about, no? The game's been in a constant downward spiral ever since. Which is funny because that's when he's massively upgraded his hardware aswell and his Patreon started to pop off.
Regarding lower renders/day for updates involving Animations&Co; It's funny you would mention it because according to L&P, animations would never cause delays. Not getting into this, but lots of people here had many good laughs at his several contradicting statements on that topic alone.
Anyway... There's been many people like you. They come and they eventually go...or they realize that shit's not right if they stay long enough. Some are still here and just take what they can get, others like me are more vocal about the bullshit. In the end we're all in the same boat. Glad you atleast made the effort to address my points.
Nope, fuck it. I have not looked at that summary properly before but it clearly shows a fairly stable stream of content.
The only slowdowns is when he introduces animations or reworks something. There is only one update when things get slower when this is not the case. There is clear drop in renders per day when he switched to part 2, but that comes with better looking game (quality increase - I guess it does have an impact after all.)
Updates get longer because there is more stuff in them. The numbers don't lie. I will also address all your points from the post individually so you stop crying:
As for the second part of your post involving the other graph; His lowest is actually 3.08 renders/day (.v200) not 3.42, which just shows that pretty much every year he's breaking his negative records. The render quality did not really improve in part 02 either. It is pretty consistent for years with the only difference being the use of AI (Topaz Labs) and possibly different photoshop settings/filters. Other than that, he's been pushing the limits of DAZ for years. And no, running his renders through this tool doesn't even add a single day of devtime per entire PD, so that argument of yours falls flat. That's why I keep telling you to look at renders from before part 02, for example 2020 or 2021. Years where he's still released 1/3rd PD updates with higher render/day counts in general. (This is exactly what's addressing your original point, and I said all of this before, but okay)
Yes, this update also contains 4 animations that are 44s in length. Naturally this will lower the renders per seconds. The point I did raise in my original statement - renders/s value drops with every update containing animations.
Yes, PD's contain more content and routes, but that's got nothing to do with renders/day and it's also pretty clear that this is not a sustainable way to develop the game if he ever wants to finish it (which can be seen in graph 01), which by the way he's lied multiple times about various things regarding this point in particular. You'd know that had you been here for some time. That's not your fault obviously.
No it absolutely does, because he can't just dish out the whole PD in a single update. This is impossible. Again PD1 and 2 together contained 900+ renders, PD13 consistent of 3500+. You expect him to do it in a single update? PD1 is way smaller than PD13 so of course it will take less time to complete. Compering them directly like in that chart and using as a proof of slowing development is stupid. It would only work if each PD had the same length and amount of content. Only then you can use that chart.
As for your comparison between PD 1+2 and 13.... What even is your point? First off, the graph does not show PD 1+2 as it starts on PD3 (Edit: My bad, the first graph starts on PD3 and apparently you've been only talking about the amount of renders as can be seen in the second graph, not the time it took). We don't know how long PD1+2 took because well...it was the first release. Anyway, your numbers suggest you're talking about PD3+4... Also, you should absolutely consider the experience he's had when starting this project compared to now, 7 years later. You can't just come here saying "higher quality blah..." but then ignore everything else. A newbie will always work much slower compared to someone with 7 years experience. The newbie will also produce lower quality content for obvious reasons. With that in mind, the gap should not be this massive as the increased quality also comes with more experience and a massive DAZ library, thus much less new stuff to make for updates and yet he's still getting slower producing less renders per year.
See above, also this is just your speculation and most of the time does not apply to creative work. From my own experience I spend roughly the same amount of time on a project. When I started years ago, something like this would take me 20 hours of work:
Now 20h gets me here:
and initial "sketch" like the one above only takes 30 minutes. Also worth pointing out that 20h and it is still not done. Still detailing and some correction left. Her face looks slightly off for example. The point I was rising all the time is quality does take time.
Also, thank you for proving my point. I should have looked into that summary earlier.
Anyway you all need a chill pill, because it is only going to get worse as the PD get bigger and bigger and contain more content, the updates will get smaller and smaller. That is the truth.
Additionally this is how it looks when developer does f all and just milks their fanbase:
*Yes, skilled workers never invest more time than beginners in order to provide better results than beginners.* View attachment 3740305
(2017 is excluded because the start date cannot be specified.)
This creator's workload or speed, is steadily and consistently declining.
(It dropped from a high of 7.60 to a low of 3.07.)
This can never be a coincidence.
It seems likely that this creator is either resting most of the day or working on other games.
Sorry what does the graph represents? The axis are not labelled. Is the Y renders/per day and X time scale? If yes, then the resolution is not precise enough. X should be update number rather than years and you will see better representation. Still downward trend, of course but I addressed why in my original post.
No it absolutely does, because he can't just dish out the whole PD in a single update. This is impossible. Again PD1 and 2 together contained 900+ renders, PD13 consistent of 3500+. You expect him to do it in a single update? PD1 is way smaller than PD13 so of course it will take less time to complete. Compering them directly like in that chart and using as a proof of slowing development is stupid. It would only work if each PD had the same length and amount of content. Only then you can use that chart.
yeah but my question is what he really need 3500+ renders on 1pd.... dont get me wrong i like this game but vs what we have now and what we have in 1part in Part1 i have feeling like this game is stuck in one place
yeah but my question is what he really need 3500+ renders on 1pd.... dont get me wrong i like this game but vs what we have now and what we have in 1part in Part1 i have feeling like this game is stuck in one place
That's a good question and maybe you can do it with less renders, but would it be the same game still? I have a strong suspicion its quality would drop.
No, it doesn't need to. But it makes the game and the story more "experienceable", "smoother", more pleasant to read, a little closer to reality - I have no idea how to describe it.
I know that we have completely different points of view here, but I think it's right!
The opposite of this is APM, in which entire (long) dialogues are told with one or two pictures. You can do it that way too, but beautifully told is something different for me.
As I said, we won't agree on this.
Sorry what does the graph represents? The axis are not labelled. Is the Y renders/per day and X time scale? If yes, then the resolution is not precise enough. X should be update number rather than years and you will see better representation. Still downward trend, of course but I addressed why in my original post.
