VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.220] [Lust & Passion]

[hzjujk]

Whether it's 70 characters or 8, I think it's really important for writers to write something fun. I look at some of the games that are story-first and struggle with development cycles, and I think a large reason for their struggles are the plodding nature of the story. I think there's a slavish devotion to a strictly linear structure, event 1- event 2- event 3, so on. I imagine the thinking is something like:

"Before I show this really fun scene, I need to have a couple scenes of buildup, and they need to be spread out. So I won't get to the fun scene for three more updates."

And I get it, you don't want to rush anything. But I think there's an underappreciated problem with this approach: it can get boring. At some point "slow and deliberate" becomes "plodding". I'm all for believable stories, I've spent too much time in this thread discussing story structure to throw all of that away, but stories also need to be entertaining. If a writer is struggling with writers block, and can't make the story progress, it could be (in part) because they're bored. But they're so committed to the plodding nature of the story that they can't see the problem.

"Ok, so the LI needs three scenes with the MC before they can make out. And then another two scenes before they can see a boob. Then that will be some conflict, and until that's settled there won't be any more sexual situations. That should probably take four scenes. Then we get a release when they finally have oral sex but get interrupted before they finish."

I'm just making that scenario up, but it seems very plausible to me. On paper such a structure may make sense. It's slow, shows progression and escalation, and keeps the audience on the edge of their seat. But, in reality, it means there are nine scenes of buildup and only three minor with payoff, all of which takes years to develop. Not only does this get frustrating for the audience, but I'm sure it gets tiresome for the writer.

"Brevity is the soul of wit" isn't always true, but it wouldn't hurt for more writers to keep it in mind. Sometimes it's good to prioritize fun and entertainment over slavish devotion to linear story progression. None of us here want every scene to be filled with sex, that would ruin the game. But scenes need to be fun and punchy, we don't need filler just because it helps set up a scene down the road in two years. We need stories that build momentum and effectively ride that momentum. We need more good stories that aren't afraid to be punchy and pull the trigger on great content. Too many good devs are struggling to complete their games and I think that's because they have voted themselves with their own storytelling.

I think many "good" authors/developers fail not because they are ambitious when they start telling their story, but because they don't have a clear goal where the story is going and what path the story should take. They only have a few scenes in mind: A fucks B, A fucks B and C, B fucks D and fuck D and B fucks A. It starts quickly, there are a few hot scenes, everyone is excited, the author experiences the flow of money and then suddenly he realizes he has realized his few ideas of scenes and has no new ideas. And the game dies. It doesn't matter if there are 8 or 40 characters in his game. L&P has set himself a mammoth task and he needs help if he doesn't want to burn out. But if he gives up, it's because he can't keep up the marathon, not because his story bores us or him.
And I want to emphasize that in any case: No matter what some members complain about, the lack of sex, I have never been bored by a single scene in this game. What is offered here so far in eroticism, without a single fuck, you look in vain in most other games. Since you are a woman, I don't have the slightest idea what attracts you to this game (it would be interesting for me to talk to you about it over a beer - hypothetically speaking) but I don't think L&P would do themselves any favors by tightening up the story.

 

[oktabitt]

"Subway thugs" take the subway(not the car) to get to the salon.
"Hot evening"Call Liam at work about the opera

After I read the Walkthrough pdf I find out that the problem was on the Good Wife points and at the reaction with the two guys on her way to the Mexican diner.

Walkthrough:
"Subway thugs"
3) On her way to the Mexican diner, Sophia passes two shady-looking characters who yell some pickup
lines at her.
If Sophia has more Filthy than Good Wife points, she has the option to react relaxed or annoyed.
Otherwise she’ll automatically react annoyed. This decision will have an impact on the further course of
the story!!!

(Afternoon/Evening)
Driving to Claire’s for a new haircut
Sophia can decide to take her car or the subway.
If she takes her car, she’ll just drive to Claire’s, get a new haircut and nails, and drive back home again.
If she takes the subway, she’ll enter a totally empty subway station after her visit with Claire.
A) If Sophia reacted relaxed to the calls of the shady-looking characters near the diner on day 4,
she’ll wait a little bit and decides to take the bus.
B) If Sophia reacted annoyed by the shady-looking characters on day 4, they will appear all of a
sudden and try to rape her.
Sophia remembers about the pepper spray her sister gave to her, and she can decide when is
the right moment to use it. She can play along (or not), but when the thug eventually touches
her breast, she’ll use the spray and escape.

"Hot evening"
(Afternoon)
On the way to the gym (Vicky) or to the mall
If Sophia has at least as many Good Wife as Filthy points, she has the option to call her husband and
tell him about the opera tickets for the evening.
She could try to persuade him to come home earlier from work and go to the opera with her.
She’ll get Good Wife +4 for that.

 

[lockerxx]

Progress Report Ver. 0.155.

60% - 60%
0% - 0%

View attachment 1574948

is moving!!! working on the first of january!!!

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

So any news on L&P finally getting help on the 3D stuff? Now that Mr Jet should be finishing BARS, it would be a great opportunity to join efforts.

Combined with outsourcing the translation part, the development speed could be twice faster to say the least.

Yes it is a New Year and we can dream.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I think many "good" authors/developers fail not because they are ambitious when they start telling their story, but because they don't have a clear goal where the story is going and what path the story should take. They only have a few scenes in mind: A fucks B, A fucks B and C, B fucks D and fuck D and B fucks A. It starts quickly, there are a few hot scenes, everyone is excited, the author experiences the flow of money and then suddenly he realizes he has realized his few ideas of scenes and has no new ideas. And the game dies. It doesn't matter if there are 8 or 40 characters in his game. L&P has set himself a mammoth task and he needs help if he doesn't want to burn out. But if he gives up, it's because he can't keep up the marathon, not because his story bores us or him.
And I want to emphasize that in any case: No matter what some members complain about, the lack of sex, I have never been bored by a single scene in this game. What is offered here so far in eroticism, without a single fuck, you look in vain in most other games. Since you are a woman, I don't have the slightest idea what attracts you to this game (it would be interesting for me to talk to you about it over a beer - hypothetically speaking) but I don't think L&P would do themselves any favors by tightening up the story.

Ok so I've written a response like three times and every time it's long winded and dense. I'm just going to shoot you a PM because I think that'll be alot easier and not clutter the thread.

That said, to contribute to this thread's discussion, I absolutely don't agree that tightening the game up would hurt AWAM. Since when is a tighter story worse than a meandering story? No one is suggesting that this game should just be Sophia and Dylan. But as has been discussed a billion times, we're drowning in side characters and branching storylines. Case in point, do we really need those two college kids and their tour of the museum? Do those two kids provide some sort of advancement of Sophia's corruption that couldn't be done by other, more established, characters?

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

Ok so I've written a response like three times and every time it's long winded and dense. I'm just going to shoot you a PM because I think that'll be alot easier and not clutter the thread.

That said, to contribute to this thread's discussion, I absolutely don't agree that tightening the game up would hurt AWAM. Since when is a tighter story worse than a meandering story? No one is suggesting that this game should just be Sophia and Dylan. But as has been discussed a billion times, we're drowning in side characters and branching storylines. Case in point, do we really need those two college kids and their tour of the museum? Do those two kids provide some sort of advancement of Sophia's corruption that couldn't be done by other, more established, characters?

Those two college kids at museum should have featured early on, in the first couple of weeks of the story and then faded away. Unless they featured anywhere else in the story (which I gather they won't appear again after their own planned event), they were a pointless addition to the supporting cast of characters.

 

[Old Dog]

Those two college kids at museum should have featured early on, in the first couple of weeks of the story and then faded away. Unless they featured anywhere else in the story (which I gather they won't appear again after their own planned event), they were a pointless addition to the supporting cast of characters.

Once they have there event that will be it for them.
2 down 856 characters to go

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

Those two college kids at museum should have featured early on, in the first couple of weeks of the story and then faded away. Unless they featured anywhere else in the story (which I gather they won't appear again after their own planned event), they were a pointless addition to the supporting cast of characters.

the explanation is simple.
The game had one pace back then. Then L&P thought "wait a second I can stretch this forever" and the rest is (literally) history. Clearly a different pace in the very first part of the story..

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

Once they have there event that will be it for them.
2 down 856 characters to go

yes - but my point was that museum trip should have ben far earlier in storyline, a one and done, and thus already in past tense.

 

[Old Dog]

yes - but my point was that museum trip should have ben far earlier in storyline, a one and done, and thus already in past tense.

You could say the same about Bennett as well since his story was cut short and Neil is on his forever vacation

 

[Old Dog]

yes - but my point was that museum trip should have ben far earlier in storyline, a one and done, and thus already in past tense.

But that would of fucked up his carefully laid out story

 

[jamdan]

A simpler story is always easier than a more complex one. This game, and others, have a lot of overlap in routes and characters. You don't need multiple routes or characters that do the same thing or serve the same purpose. Instead, you can have roughly the same amount of content, just add the excess Characters/routes to more solidified and purposeful ones. Characters should have depth and having depth means they can serve multiple different roles, if needed.

Do we really need 2 side-jobs? No. Instead of having 2 different routes, just do one side-job and double it's content. The side-jobs are especially wasteful as it's obvious L&P made them to cover the young/old fetishes. Idea: Sophia's own father needs help, maybe she takes Dylan or Ellie to help her care for him. That alone would serve practically the same purpose as the old man side job. She can teach her own kids sex ed. She doesn't need to be manipulated by a few horny 12yr old's. Adding 1 character and eliminating 5. Yet maintaining roughly the same content.

Do we really need multiple blackmail routes? No. Condense them into one or two routes and make them more distinct. Dylan doesn't need to go to boarding school. Not only is it not needed, it stalls Dylan's route. Pick 1 school blackmailer, give them different blackmail material, and pick one out of school blackmailer.

Do we really need all the sets of friends? No. As before, combine the roles into a couple sets of friends instead of half a dozen. Sofia/Ellie and Dylan all have multiple friends.

Do we really need the random side-characters like the college kids or whoever else? No. Same as above, pick the best ones or even better give their content to the mains. I'd much rather have a Dylan/Sam/Sofia/Patricia museum tour than the college kids stuff.

My magic wand character eliminator: (going off the character sheet in the OP)

Carl - His role goes to nobody as he is irrelevant.
Nat - Yes, I did it. Replace her role with Julia.
Janitor dude - His shower goes to Mr. Bennett, who is still a blackmailer.
Aiden + his friends - Their role is taken by Bennett.
Ellie's friends besides Christine - Their roles are taken by Julia.
College guys - Their roles go to Dylan and Sam.
The Fitness instructors + fitness guys - Their roles are filled by Ellie + Patricia Dylan and Sam
Logan - Ellie doesn't need a BF, she's got her momma. If she has to, Sam can fill this role.
Side job # 1 - See above
Side job #2 - See above
Park hobo's and thugs - All gone, by. Replace their screen time with a new event for a main character.

And that's not even half of them, the list is out of date.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

You could say the same about Bennett as well since his story was cut short and Neil is on his forever vacation

Not that I'm complaining, but Neil and Amber would have made a lot of sense to keep in the story. They're neighbors, and the tension (especially with Neil) could have made for some easy conflict to drive the story. I would have traded the two of them for the first side job easily. I also would have traded them for the hairdresser and her daughter.

 

[Old Dog]

Not that I'm complaining, but Neil and Amber would have made a lot of sense to keep in the story. They're neighbors, and the tension (especially with Neil) could have made for some easy conflict to drive the story. I would have traded the two of them for the first side job easily. I also would have traded them for the hairdresser and her daughter.

L&P is working on "The greatest story ever told"
We all know how passionate he is about the side jobs so it would take a major event to happen for him to drop either of them

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

L&P is working on "The greatest story ever told"
We all know how passionate he is about the side jobs so it would take a major event to happen for him to drop either of them

Including the one where he renders a 3D VN?

 

[YoungJack]

anyone know where i can find

You must be registered to see the links

?

 

[ruhamuo]

A simpler story is always easier than a more complex one. This game, and others, have a lot of overlap in routes and characters. You don't need multiple routes or characters that do the same thing or serve the same purpose. Instead, you can have roughly the same amount of content, just add the excess Characters/routes to more solidified and purposeful ones. Characters should have depth and having depth means they can serve multiple different roles, if needed.

Do we really need 2 side-jobs? No. Instead of having 2 different routes, just do one side-job and double it's content. The side-jobs are especially wasteful as it's obvious L&P made them to cover the young/old fetishes. Idea: Sophia's own father needs help, maybe she takes Dylan or Ellie to help her care for him. That alone would serve practically the same purpose as the old man side job. She can teach her own kids sex ed. She doesn't need to be manipulated by a few horny 12yr old's. Adding 1 character and eliminating 5. Yet maintaining roughly the same content.

Do we really need multiple blackmail routes? No. Condense them into one or two routes and make them more distinct. Dylan doesn't need to go to boarding school. Not only is it not needed, it stalls Dylan's route. Pick 1 school blackmailer, give them different blackmail material, and pick one out of school blackmailer.

Do we really need all the sets of friends? No. As before, combine the roles into a couple sets of friends instead of half a dozen. Sofia/Ellie and Dylan all have multiple friends.

Do we really need the random side-characters like the college kids or whoever else? No. Same as above, pick the best ones or even better give their content to the mains. I'd much rather have a Dylan/Sam/Sofia/Patricia museum tour than the college kids stuff.

My magic wand character eliminator: (going off the character sheet in the OP)

Carl - His role goes to nobody as he is irrelevant.
Nat - Yes, I did it. Replace her role with Julia.
Janitor dude - His shower goes to Mr. Bennett, who is still a blackmailer.
Aiden + his friends - Their role is taken by Bennett.
Ellie's friends besides Christine - Their roles are taken by Julia.
College guys - Their roles go to Dylan and Sam.
The Fitness instructors + fitness guys - Their roles are filled by Ellie + Patricia Dylan and
Logan - Ellie doesn't need a BF, she's got her momma. If she has to, Sam can fill this role.
Side job # 1 - See above
Side job #2 - See above
Park hobo's and thugs - All gone, by. Replace their screen time with a new event for a main character.

And that's not even half of them, the list is out of date.

Your opinion is what makes this game just like any other dumb porn game with no personality.

 

[TomUK]

anyone know where i can find

You must be registered to see the links

?

Yes, you got to turn down the first side job and take the second one.

 

[ancienregimele]

Reading all of the above posts regarding the story direction & huge ensemble cast, there are many good points made. Knowing what we do about the likely fate of AWAM, if nothing changes, or as seems possible development actually grinds ever more slowly, it seems that we keep turning in an ever-decreasing circle.

There are many studies of what factors create real motivation for change but in RL work, change is generally imposed from above. As that's not possible in this case, or perhaps even desirable if it was, the next issue would logically be a question of what would truly motivate the Dev to change? Many of us have made suggestions, (usually well-meaning), knowing that they would almost certainly be ignored.

There is zero chance of a mass desertion by paying patrons, which would in any case be a self-defeating proposition, if this was permanent. There have been cases of football (soccer) clubs where supporters have targeted specific games to stay away from, thus indicating to the rich & powerful that continued support was conditional upon various changes being implemented. Such efforts have had mixed success/results but they certainly got senior figures' attention. It's one radical measure that came to mind but would probably be a non-starter, especially from a pirate's POV.

All I can think of in the short term is to try to activate L&P's interest in polls, as in which stories should be combined, which characters should fade out, etc? There should be a way to harness L&P's desire to continue the VN, while making a good living, in tandem with the fan's wish for the game to continue but to speed up & not be abandoned.

I say there should be but this is where I would ask the assembled Committee, or whatever, to come up with ideas. I wish I had some more but I don't at this point & also have no wish to decrease the circle even further. Another obvious thing to do would be to just give it the old "que sera, sera", which is also used as an ironic football chant btw.

 

[NathanSlayer]

Whats the changelog for the upcoming update?