- Oct 17, 2017
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- Thread starter VileMedia
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Eh the $1-3 is more of a Tip Jar which should be encouraged as 100 people throwing in $1 is still a hundred dollars. Hiding builds behind higher tiers just increases the incentive to pirate it as it makes impatient people wait longer or increases the chance that some people will simply lose interest. However I guess the
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might be in play as say it's worth more and have anonymous leak it 
Oh no, the $20 tier got leaked... Look how many people are downloading something that was $20 Add some girls with sad puppy dog eyes can get some sympathetic fans Light of my Life put the girls in pirate outfits for promotion.Hiding news about the game behind a paywall just hampers the hype train so I never did get why devs would shoot themselves in the foot besides monkey see, monkey do mentality. Now many would pay a little extra for HD versions of collectable art so perks like Wallpaper tend to get the $5 treatment. $5 Polls tend to be a fun thing that people will pay for if they are interesting though many fail to advertise these events and throwing a few free polls from time to time helps with general engagement as you want fans to care about what's going on. Komisari, dev of Hero's Harem Guild, offered some exclusive tiers to new fans to draw them in as give people a limited time offer and some will hop on because of that. ArcGames, dv of Corrupted Kingdoms, also had some tiers as timed exclusives.
I guess hiding your earnings could help. Though Mity, dev of Four Elements Trainer, might be a better example.
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Here are the other devs for reference
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Be careful with blatant copy and paste or some will view it as a lack of originality. It's not so much the Page that turns fans into supporters but the underlining game that they deliver upon which has a Patreon Link right on the Title Screen.
Also VileMedia consider filling out options.rpy about information. Name of the Developer, an advertising link, and general credits.
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Is this like have your cake and eat it too kind of things?
Showing you care about the fans is nice. Statistical Data also helps.
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- Oct 17, 2017
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Reason why not to do a 1 dollar tier has to do with Patreon's cut. Patreon takes a flat cut per donation on top of it's percentage cut. The consequence is that a 1 dollar donation to a Patreon *mostly* gives money to Patreon and not the developer.Eh the $1-3 is more of a Tip Jar which should be encouraged as 100 people throwing in $1 is still a hundred dollars. Hiding builds behind higher tiers just increases the incentive to pirate it as it makes impatient people wait longer or increases the chance that some people will simply lose interest. However I guess theYou must be registered to see the linksmight be in play as say it's worth more and have anonymous leak it
Hiding news about the game behind a paywall just hampers the hype train so I never did get why devs would shoot themselves in the foot besides monkey see, monkey do mentality. Now many would pay a little extra for HD versions of collectable art so perks like Wallpaper tend to get the $5 treatment. $5 Polls tend to be a fun thing that people will pay for if they are interesting though many fail to advertise these events and throwing a few free polls from time to time helps with general engagement as you want fans to care about what's going on. Komisari, dev of Hero's Harem Guild, offered some exclusive tiers to new fans to draw them in as give people a limited time offer and some will hop on because of that. ArcGames, dv of Corrupted Kingdoms, also had some tiers as timed exclusives.
I guess hiding your earnings could help. Though Mity, dev of Four Elements Trainer, might be a better example.
You must be registered to see the links
Here are the other devs for reference
You must be registered to see the links
You must be registered to see the links
You must be registered to see the links
Be careful with blatant copy and paste or some will view it as a lack of originality. It's not so much the Page that turns fans into supporters but the underlining game that they deliver upon which has a Patreon Link right on the Title Screen.
Also VileMedia consider filling out options.rpy about information. Name of the Developer, an advertising link, and general credits.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Is this like have your cake and eat it too kind of things?
Showing you care about the fans is nice. Statistical Data also helps.
You must be registered to see the links
A "tip" tier doesn't really make sense until the $2-3 level at present.
Regarding free news updates. The general stance you should take is that there should be free news updates, but it is better to make those monthly, while making Patreon updates weekly. That way your page isn't a blank wall of text+ public release, but Patrons still feel they're getting more information.
Lots of "art" previews are especially valuable at the lower end tier. In your case render type previews.
Honestly, most of the other other Patreon pages you linked had mediocre presentations. They were also less applicable. I picked out the Runey example because it's the one that is most similar in selling points. Also, some of those pages (especially ones like MITY) get patrons mostly on game strengh and not on presentation. Notice the incredibly weak usage of visual marketing on that page. I wouldn't link it as an example in a second.
Also, I think your comment on originality is misplaced. The content of one's own advertisement campaign should be built around their own specific game and aesthetics. But, the structure and the placement of elements is generalizable and fairly repeatable. If you try to "diffirentiate" from one marketing aesthetic without knowing why then you're liable to fuck up.
In terms of marketing, unless you have experience, it is better to change the "What" then the "How".
- Oct 17, 2017
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Also, I cannot overstate the effect that having "ahead" builds has on revenue. If you think "the pirates will just pirate it and no one will donate" you are very wrong. I've worked with publishers in the field and they can give you exact numbers. But, the revenue effect is very noticeable. The reality is most people are not F95 Pirates and also more F95 Pirates pay for builds then you expect.
Patreon Fee Chart
| US Dollars ($) | Euros (€) | British Pounds (£) |
| $3 or less: 5% + 10 cents | €3 or less: 5% + €0.15 | £3 or less: 5% + £0.15 |
| Over $3: 2.9% + 30 cents | Over €3: 3.4% + €0.35 | Over £3: 3.4% + £0.35 |
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Some fans don't have deep pockets so excluding them will have an impact. Alternatively some devs also use Itch.io and BuyMeACoffee.com to pick up players that would prefer a one time payment.
Don't really need to update weekly unless you are releasing weekly. A monthly post with the master plan (Roadmap) is fine. Going much longer than that will make some fans wonder if the dev is still around.
They also had market figures which Runey's page lacked. Mity's page did have more patrons so I wouldn't underestimate a simple design choice.
Sounds like a chicken and an egg. You'll never gain experience or grow if you simply hide under the butt of someone that has already done it before. They have to learn how to market themselves, their own personal time management, and what incentives they can support which each dev has their own answer to.
I am curious though since you have the 'Game Developer' title what game are you making? Some put that on their profile page, a link to their Patreon under their name, or a custom signature but I didn't see anything.
- Feb 28, 2020
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It's very clear you know exactly what you're talking about so know that I appreciate you taking the time to share this. I'm quite far into the development of the next update right now but after that I will be rethinking a lot of the game and making changes in response to your advice, so thanks a lot.
A lot of your points are additions I've planned on making already which just highlights that the biggest issue with the game right now is the lack of content. Outside of that though I have my reasons for the direction I've taken things so far but after reading this, yeah. You're absolutely right. My original aim was to not lock players out of any content. To let them have it all. But when I think about it that leaves very little room for any real variation (just for one example).
As for the business side of things, and you were right when you said this. But I really am just looking for feedback/advice right now so optimizing income isn't something I need to worry about. I've legitemetly learned a lot of valuable information from that though so if that time ever comes I'll put all of it to good use.
Again, I can't thank you enough.
- Oct 17, 2017
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I'm lead writer of
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, and Staff Writer on
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and
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. There's a good number of prior games I've worked on, both in a marketing and writing capacity. I used to write for Lewd Gamer, mostly focused on interviewing successful developers. I also have a number of less official advisory roles.
- Oct 17, 2017
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The statement that Patreon takes most is hyberole, but not entirely. It also doesn't account for payout fees or taxes. The key point is that you get the lowest as a percentage of income on 1 dollar of any other figure. You always want your tip price to be around $2 or $3.
Itch and similair services have their value. But, the truth is that as a share of income, Itch donations tend to be very low. Itch is actually more valuable as a distribution platform then a revenue platform.
Weekly update value depends. One good strategy is to make each weekly report in a month focus on different elements. Week one on coding, week two on art, week three on writing, etc. But, the real purpose is to drive engagement. You do not strictly need weekly updates. But, you definitly need biweekly updates at the lowest.
There isn't a narrow correlation of Patreons to Design Choice. MITY could have more patrons and that matters. I genuinely think MITY's page isn't optamized to revenue (although it's not as bad as a layman might think either). He just has great word of mouth because of product strength.
On the point of chicken and egg. I am speaking from experience when I say that most newbie developers do not have the tools to properly value minimalism or text basis in page-design vs heavier visual style. I tend to recommend more visual styles because it's harder to get wrong and easier for a competent person to get right. Also less complex to teach.
- Oct 17, 2017
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My advice when it comes to "let them have it all" is to follow a rule called 60-30-10. Make 60% of content "Common Scenes" that occur on all routes. Make 30% of content "Uncommon Scenes" that are more variant or that require repetition. Then make 10% of variant content be missable entirely (stat dependent/optional/rewarding).
The effect of such a breakdown is that because the player's brain is inclined to over-weight the 30% and 10%, it makes the game feel like it has wide response to player choice. But, actually the majority of your work is in the 60% and thus your game doesn't feel too short either.
A side effect of this is that it improves replay value. As a Patreon game on effectively a staggered release schedule, players are going to replay your game frequently. Thus, replay value has outsized value in the genre.
Some Fan Signatures for Aftermath
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- Feb 28, 2020
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- May 26, 2018
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So you are telling me that all of the progress I made with the girls in v1.3b is gone in v1.4a? That sounds so screwed up, especially if in each upgrade I have to start over because you cannot keep the progress made consistent throughout the various updates. In no other game that I have played has current progress from a previous version been reset by the developer in a new version, forcing a player to attempt - ATTEMPT - to recover his progress or have his game at the same state after HOURS of f*king grind to get it back. That shows me a developer with no ethics, no concern for his patrons and players, and no consistent reliability in the developer's work or vision. Why the hell should I play, or support, a game that has progress screwed because of player's "complaints" or fweedback? Don't get me wrong, feedback is great, and even better when a developer uses or learns from it, but to f**king totally change the game where a player's progress is f**ked after each update is not only sloppy, but is not a game that would ever consider playing again, regardless of how great I originally thought it was.
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- Oct 17, 2017
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Ah, pirates giving ethics lectures to the the dev for checks notes removing content that would be a development sink. Oh great ethics pirate, please continue.
- May 26, 2018
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Sure: Runey is one developer that I consider to be an ethical game developer. Sure, he adds content in each update, and I grant, there is a fair amount of grind in his game, but he does not use feedback to arbitrarily change a game from his vision to his player's vision, Same goes for Blue Cat, Killer7, and a few others I could name.
As fare as I can see, this developer is not ADDING content in the update, just changing content so he can pretend it is an update.
- Oct 17, 2017
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Look man, I'm really just trying my best here. I understand that I've got a lot to learn and a lot of work to do to make the best game I can. What we're talking about here though is a handful of single render scenes. You've never had to start over. You've never lost everything, you can check the stats in game from the book and they're the same as they've always been.
I didn't think twice about moving the actions because they took relatively little effort to implement and I had heard from multiple players that they hurt the game overall. If you disagree, that's fine. I can start work on easing them in.
Thanks and sorry again.
It's almost like things in early development are in early development
Wouldn't worry much about it but more events with the girls would be nice
- May 26, 2018
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Hmmmm... A decent reply to what most might consider a rant on my part. Very refreshing and nice to see. Based on that alone, I am willing to revise my viewpoint on your game to at least a bit more favorable one.
Thank you for taking the time to at least reply and present your point of view. As far as "not starting over, I beg to disagree. When I loose the ability to continue content due to changes in the game removing the ability to continue, and then find that - having progressed to a certain point in one build and then finding out in the update that my progress no longer applies due to changes in the new build (update) that move the progression points (or whatever they may be called) to a different level or progression level - that is a loss of progress requiring me to basically start over in the game and having to grind just to find where the new level progressions are. I realize that this is a pirate site, and that you are making this game as a labour of love. BUT, when in the old version I am able to advance to the point I am able to "make out" with Zoe in the office, including fondling and other things, and being told in the old version that "sex" with her will be implemented in the update and then in the update not only has my progress and scenes now been deleted due to changes (or to be more accurate from what I understand, those scenes NOW take additional steps that were not in the old version); being able to progress in the old version with the "Secretary" and finding in the new version that those progressions are no longer valid due to changes in the new version/update (or finding out those progressions are no longer valid until I perform additional steps not required in the old version), that - from my point of view and in my personal opinion - means that I have to start over due to my saves no longer being compatible (or the progression within the saves are now not there due to major changes within the code requiring steps not needed in the old version). Instead of "picking up where I left off" in the old version and finding new content and additional content, I now find not only am I NOT able to pick up where I left off, but content was either deleted or changed requiring new triggers to access them, but the content actually added is - subjectively - about 20 minutes of game time.
I realize you have a vision for your game, and admire the fact you are following and listening to feedback, but when you change fundamental areas within the game, change triggers that now require MORE grind just to access those triggers, that just feels as if you are changing Your vision to try to please everyone. In the long run, that will hurt your game more than help it.
Please understand, I know these are my personal opinions, and may not apply to everyone here (and in fact probably does not apply), but from my point of view, if I have to keep grinding to find triggers and scenes I ALREADY found in the previous versions, that is not a game I am willing or inclined to support or play.
If others enjoy it, that is cool and more power to them. May they continue to enjoy the game.
