- Nov 15, 2022
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So, going by that numbering scheme, how many days will the game cover? Anything less than a week seems like it would be too short to tell a compelling corruption story, no?
- Thread starter Saint_RNG
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- Apr 2, 2018
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This numbering scheme will cease from a certain point in the game where it is no longer necessary to detail each day. The first few days of the game are denser because the characters and the background surrounding each of them need to be introduced.
As the story progresses, there will be more scenes +18 and less blah blah, at which point the story will progress fairly quickly to the end. The aim is not to drag the game out by making ‘infinite’ content. I'd like to finish the game in two years, then move on to something else (new game, mini stories in the Angel & Demon universe, etc.).
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Out of sheer curiosity - again, you don't have to answer - are there traces of an idea for a sequel to this game? Or are the mini-stories the only story expansions we might get after the fact? And if you are playing with an idea for a sequel, is there a path in the current game you would consider 'canon', as canonical as a path could be in a game with multiple (probably wildly different) endings?
I know this might be way too early to say with any sort of confidence, but I would like to pick your brain if you don't mind.
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There are no plans for a sequel at the moment, or at least not in the form of a full game. The mini stories won't be canon, they'll have to be seen as "What if...", nothing is planned at the moment (even though I've already had a couple of people give me ideas via private messages) and it'll mostly be decided by the fans on SubscribeStar.
The canonical path is clearly the pure route (aka the happy ending). You have to see the game as a banal romantic story to which I add fantasy via the corruption route.
The pure route is the one that seems most plausible to me: Veronica resumes a normal life (after her death) with Nathan, her studies go well, she ends up with a job, and they start a family and live happily for the rest of their lives.
Now, from a content point of view, I don't think that's what people expect to see on this site, hence the existence of the corruption route.
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Well, respect for saying shit that will get you "beat up" in a place like this
.And while I understand that some folks just prefer the Disney romance paths, games & sites like these are really not suited for those stories.
Most of us are here because we want to see taboo stories come to life and explored fully. Sure, there are a lot of dating simulators that are doing well and those arguably don't fit the bill, but they still serve as 'wish fulfillment' for the Forever Alone types like myself. While I would wager that Pure paths in games like Angel & Demon don't really scratch any particular itch for the kind of players you are actually attracting.
It's a neat little phenomenon: if your game contains Corruption, then it becomes a game about Corruption with a Pure path optional.
I don't want to sound like I'm saying your choice of canon is wrong on some factual basis (after all, it is a matter of personal preference), I just hope you keep all of this in mind - it is not worth it to try and equalize the amount of Corruption and Pure content, as the logic just doesn't compute (you can be Corrupted in so many different ways, while Purity really only has one effective meaning). Apologies if I sound condescending, my intent is only to give some advice.
That said, I hope ALL endings you decide on have proper epilogues. A lot of AVNs just don't stick the landing:
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Personally, I don't mind pure paths at all; so longs as they're well written and work within the context of the game. Two of my favorite story lines in Our Red String for example is a loving Ian / Lena relationship, or a loving Ian / Allison and loving Lena / Holly.
Corruption is certainly a fun and entertaining part of many games, but if you look at most of the top games on this site, you'll notice that most of them don't contain corruption at all, but all are excellently written.
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Funny you should mention those games, as Dating Simulators, in my opinion, can't qualify for games with "pure" routes by their inherent properties; by what standard are we judging the purity/corruption of any given relationship in those games?
Maybe Our Red String is the exception because the game clearly starts out with the two MCs becoming interested in one another - but unless I am gravely mistaken, you can also completely avoid the female MC and not have any sexual relations with her, so even that example is flimsy at best.
And sure, the top 5 games on this site (sorted by weighted rating) are story-rich immersive adventures, but they also contain either dating-simulator-lite elements (you pick a singular Love Interest to focus on) or an uncommon fetish like Incest (sometimes that fetish is also the central theme, the driving force of events), so I'd say it is disingenuous to claim that those games attraction lies in their offering of a Pure route - whose elements are clearly not present in them.
To have Purity routes, you need Corruption routes: to have Corruption, you need corruptible Affection: usually this is a loving, "innocent" relationship between the MC and their SO - or an outside pairing whose corruptor is the MC.
So, hopefully you agree with me that Purity is only possible in games centering around Corruption of the Pure.
I don't mind a well written Pure storyline either, but as soon as Purity is present, it takes a backseat to Corruption. To make matters "worse", Veronica's boyfriend Nathan is not particularly physically gifted - I'd go as far as to say he is below average in that department
. Which is unfortunate, as I otherwise find a lot of things about Nathan's character relatable: a nerd, skilled with computers, and spends a lot of time playing videogames? It seems the only way he bagged a dime like Veronica is because she is too naive to spend a few seconds considering the alternatives...
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Maybe I should have gone into more detail...
The pure route is the canonical route, but it will have much less content. Sounds weird, I know.
As stated in the disclaimer at the start of the game, the game is primarily intended to focus on the corrupted route (and all the sub-branches that will flow from it).
In both routes, Veronica will be different (sexually speaking) from the beginning to the end, but not on the same scale, of course.
That's exactly the point of the game: the pure route will be rather straightforward, while the corrupted route will have several ways of ending (the "fork" will come quite late).
I agree with what's in your spoiler, it kind of looks like what I planned.
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No, I understand - if there were a hypothetical sequel set in this universe, the world would be shaped by the events in the Pure route. Also, the Corrupted path having more content is just simple math... nothing unusual about that.
I am overjoyed that we see eye-to-eye on so many game development philosophies. The sub is definitely worth it knowing your plans are probably going to be very similar to my imagination.
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Hi guys,
I've just made an
It's open to everyone, so feel free to have your say.
I did it because I've seen some posts and reviews where people are complaining and/or worried that future content will be mainly focused on this fetish.
I hope it will help me make a game that pleases as many people as possible.
I've just made an
You must be registered to see the links
on my SubscribeStar page containing a poll on (future) interracial content.It's open to everyone, so feel free to have your say.
I did it because I've seen some posts and reviews where people are complaining and/or worried that future content will be mainly focused on this fetish.
I hope it will help me make a game that pleases as many people as possible.
- Nov 15, 2022
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As a fan of interracial content myself, I hope you don’t hesitate too much about the amount of interracial content you end up including, either concerning Sarah or Veronica… all because of some loudmouths that can’t read the warning on the front page. Not all IR content is immediately racist or stereotypical, just look at Pineapple Express - that game, in my humble opinion, has the best portrayal of Interracial NTS/NTR on the market. There is almost no raceplay or stereotypes involved, because race wasn’t a factor - you could’ve had a man of any race in that same position and the relationship would’ve been the same.Hi guys,
I've just made anYou must be registered to see the linkson my SubscribeStar page containing a poll on (future) interracial content.
It's open to everyone, so feel free to have your say.
I did it because I've seen some posts and reviews where people are complaining and/or worried that future content will be mainly focused on this fetish.
I hope it will help me make a game that pleases as many people as possible.
P.S. You are also probably the only dev I’ve seen that also bothered to include birracial children, a.k.a. the aftermath. Even the aforementioned PE game ends by nearly skipping the entire pregnancy and doesn’t even show the baby to the player, so another thumbs up just for that!
The baby both is and isn't the problem here. I applaud the fact that there is a baby in the prologue of any game that leans into the pregnancy kink. I think that makes an excellent 'Chekov's Gun' style of foreshadowing. It's brilliant for a porn game. But in that same vein, let's look at how that baby is presented: his father is a deadbeat who took off, and the baby himself is some sort of semi-human creature that lusts over tits the same way, we are told, that his father did. He is an albatross around a neck, not an innocent child of both parents.
And that would still be FINE in a game about a naive female protagonist caught in a world of dangers that teases pregnancy like a sexy risk at every turn. Except the child is black, is alien because he is black, and every other black character *or even characters who sympathize with them* is portrayed as even worse.
As for the rest of the racism in this game: it is true racism. I can't even imagine somebody pretending that it isn't without either trolling or have never met a human being who doesn't look like they do. That, also, is FINE... as long as we are all honest about what it really is. This is porn. It is fantasy. Bad things can be good here, and a lot of things we find sexy are that way BECAUSE they aren't real.
As an aside, I think we need to talk about BLM for a moment (especially since it is brought up in the game itself) to illustrate the problem with making this game 'appeal to as many people as possible'. Push what has become of the politics around BLM, and the riots of that time, aside. Politics are irrelevant to racism.
BLM means "black lives matter", and the reason it is called that is not because we need to give black people deference, or special treatment, or any of that other hogwash. It is because the alternative is that the lives of black people do NOT matter. They are 'less than'. They are alien. They aren't 'us'. The point of that may have gotten lost in the years since then, but works like this game illustrate exactly why it was called that in the first place. It is not possible to make a game that treats black people as exotic animals, that does not humanize them in the same way as every other character of lighter skin, that mocks any of those characters as race-traitors... and also have the game 'appeal to everyone'. It simply will not.
There are three ways forward with this: re-write most of the prologue to humanize the literal human beings (which would essentially re-write the game), spend a large chunk of the story explaining away why the black characters (and the BLM girl) behaved the way that they did (which I'm sure plenty of people would see as a bait-and switch), or else tell people, right up front, in big block letters, that black people are dangerous creatures in this game's universe and to bugger off if they don't agree with it. But, frankly, at this point, the tone has already been set.
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That sums up the whole intro, exaggerating and parodying things to the max. I agree that it's not the best way to make the game 'appealing to everyone' right from the start.
I don't know if you played v0.2 (especially the dialogue between Veronica and her mother in the church or the dialogue between Veronica and Sarah in Luigi's room) but it's partly explained :
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Once again, it's the deliberate exaggeration of the intro that brings the whole thing to a climax, before dropping back down after Veronica's death. Afterwards, we'll learn that the baby is just like any other baby, that the black people who do scenes with Sarah do so because they're just paid for it, it's only role-playing during the scenes, outside they're just like everyone else, ditto for Sarah, she's not a QoS as it might seem, she's just doing this kind of content because she's better paid than for other fetishes.
As for the racism Lorenzo may express, I'd call it clumsy racism. It sounds strange, but he's not really a racist, he's just worried and frustrated about Sarah. And unfortunately, the way he expresses it is racist. The way to "fight" this will be part of the plot, so it's essential.
I think my mistake is clearly not to have put a disclaimer directly at the beginning of the game concerning this subject, the poll seems to confirm it. I'll fix it for v0.3, since it's easy to avoid much of this content by not making the “corrupt” choices in the intro.
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It seems to me that a lot of people, including yourself, also missed the fact that Veronica's best friend from the prologue had glowing purple eyes during that bathroom scene - and is even explained by the Demoness that appears to Veronica that her friend had made a deal with her demon to corrupt another innocent soul (which is why Veronica was almost ready to suck off that dude right then & there, there was a clear supernatural influence at play here). So, the overblown interracial fetish was a result of demonic influence. Now, I do agree that the dev should've made a more clear warning for this prologue, as regardless of the explanation, the portrayal is undoubtedly racist.
However, the whole story around Sarah is far from racist:
Sarah later explains to Veronica that the baby's father was a paid porn actor, and that both him and Sarah agreed to an on-camera impregnation that conceived it. The contract probably alleviated the male actor from taking any responsibility for the baby as a result, and it isn't unfathomable that he would not want to step in and be an actual father (off-camera) to a contract-baby. Sucks, but not racist at all.
Now, like Saint_RNG said, Sarah's father is likely upset that Sarah got pregnant out of wedlock - remember, Lorenzo is a grandchild of Italian immigrants, and it is high chance that he was raised conservatively where single motherhood is shameful. He is clearly expressing his concerns in a way that some might see it as being disgusted with his daughter having a black baby, though he has not explicitly said anything racist toward anybody.
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Originally, I'd even planned for Dominic to be the very incarnation of this demon with whom she's signed a pact. A mischievous way of making sure he got Monique's soul. His plan was to take control of her like a puppet (hence the violet eyes towards the end) and corrupt another innocent soul (Veronica) if possible. Now I can't quite remember why I didn't choose this idea. At least, regarding Dominic being the archdemon, because the part with the violet eyes on Monique indicates that she is clearly possessed at that moment by the archdemon himself (+ the fact that she is partly taking control of Veronica).
I think these two dialogues alone make him look like a racist at first glance.
But Lorenzo's sentence, though clumsy, is a way of letting out his frustration and fears about Sarah.
As for Helena's response, it's her own interpretation of Lorenzo's words, since he didn't explicitly mention skin color.
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Must've missed that sentence from Lorenzo, but I agree, he doesn't seem to be a hateful racist. Like you said, he is worried that Sarah got pregnant out of wedlock, by a black man, and the baby daddy left her (from his perspective). He doesn't want her to bear the brunt of raising a child alone, especially given that the baby is black - her chances of finding a husband down the line get even slimmer knowing that. So of course he is frustrated and worried, and as you've put it: he just can't find the right words to express himself. He is not unforgivable, he is just a concerned father.
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Physically I liked her too, too bad the archdemon's corruption made her execrable.
She may well return in bonus content, depending on what fans choose on SubscribeStar.
I understand. And I can tell from your writing that you are highly intelligent. I think you also know that this is sensitive/delicate territory. And, for that reason, I've done my best to not insinuate that you mean to wrong people.That sums up the whole intro, exaggerating and parodying things to the max. I agree that it's not the best way to make the game 'appealing to everyone' right from the start.
I don't know if you played v0.2 (especially the dialogue between Veronica and her mother in the church or the dialogue between Veronica and Sarah in Luigi's room) but it's partly explained :Some of these things are not yet explained in the game, but they will be.You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Once again, it's the deliberate exaggeration of the intro that brings the whole thing to a climax, before dropping back down after Veronica's death. Afterwards, we'll learn that the baby is just like any other baby, that the black people who do scenes with Sarah do so because they're just paid for it, it's only role-playing during the scenes, outside they're just like everyone else, ditto for Sarah, she's not a QoS as it might seem, she's just doing this kind of content because she's better paid than for other fetishes.
As for the racism Lorenzo may express, I'd call it clumsy racism. It sounds strange, but he's not really a racist, he's just worried and frustrated about Sarah. And unfortunately, the way he expresses it is racist. The way to "fight" this will be part of the plot, so it's essential.
I think my mistake is clearly not to have put a disclaimer directly at the beginning of the game concerning this subject, the poll seems to confirm it. I'll fix it for v0.3, since it's easy to avoid much of this content by not making the “corrupt” choices in the intro.
Lorenzo didn't actually bother me, mostly because I think his reaction is reasonable for a father who blames himself for his daughter's (ostensibly) unplanned pregnancy. I like the fact that you are exploring a porn actress getting knocked up during a scene. Actually, I think it might have even been better if it was something unintentional somehow. There is something worth exploring even more with that perhaps with a flashback at some point. That could be fun and kinky. There isn't anything wrong with "Luigi" as a name either, although I think maybe Helena should say something like "but, honey, she named him after your father!" when Lorenzo gets upset, if just to make it clear that it is a normal Italian name and not some video game reference.
However, I think a few words after the nipple-biting scene with the baby (perhaps the MC thinking to herself "but he doesn't even have any teeth yet..." or "it looked like he was biting her because she was forcing him against her breast...") would signal to the player that something is awry with how things are being presented. Anything to make it clear that the baby isn't malicious. The treatment of that baby, in generally, left a really sour note for me right from the start.
The biggest sin is having Monique's eyes glow and not Dominic's. Switching those would change a lot. I think conveying to the player that Dominic is literally possessed by a demon, and that Monique is simply his thrall, would go a long way. There is plenty to explore with the concept of demons exploiting well-intentioned people to take their passion and pervert them for evil. BLM rallies seem almost like a pre-packaged way to convey that.
However, even then, this prologue... wow. The tone here is a hole that really requires the player to pay attention and 'asks-without-asking' that they put the proverbial legwork into digging themselves out of.
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